The Real Ball Lightning theory

[jarrfan]

From what I read, ball lightening is usually accompanied by a rainstorm and thunder, lightening. Not sure if that was going on at DP, and I don't see them leaving the tent because of it.

Whatever it was made them immediately and without forethought, leave the safest place they were to get AWAY from it, or they were ordered out immediately by military that they feared.

They could have left the tent thinking if they started a fire, it might scare away the creature, bear or whatever, and the two climbed the tree as they saw it coming back.

The Rav 4 had to have their injuries inflicted at the place of death because they were so debilitating, they would not have been able to crawl there. Why did they leave the den and run toward the ravine?

There are so more questions than answers.

[Nigel Evans]

From what I read, ball lightening is usually accompanied by a rainstorm and thunder, lightening. Not sure if that was going on at DP, and I don't see them leaving the tent because of it.

Whatever it was made them immediately and without forethought, leave the safest place they were to get AWAY from it, or they were ordered out immediately by military that they feared.

They could have left the tent thinking if they started a fire, it might scare away the creature, bear or whatever, and the two climbed the tree as they saw it coming back.

The Rav 4 had to have their injuries inflicted at the place of death because they were so debilitating, they would not have been able to crawl there. Why did they leave the den and run toward the ravine?

There are so more questions than answers.

Hiya jarrfan. Welcome to the real ball lightning thread, the one and only....
Ball lightning events are well documented and don't need thunderstorms etc. One common scenario seems to be mountain tops.
As to the DPI, let's remember that this was Lev Ivanov's preferred theory and he saw all the evidence.

[Nigel Evans]

I don't know of any vehicle in 1959 yet alone today that could traverse that terrain in those conditions.   

Besides...  you would hear it coming a mile a way.   I used to sleep in a defensive position with M1 Abrams maneuvering all around me.... ask me how I know.

I think we can rule out battle tanks
 
According to some of the web pages on this incident the police investigation included examining the wider area for signs of a mobile crane being used to drop this object into place.

[sarapuk]

The Dechmont Woods Incident - http://www.mapit.kk5.org/the-livingston-ufo/4535820811
An interesting case due to a thorough investigation by the police.
The "ladder tracks" were estimated by the police to have been made by an object weighing several tons and there was no sign of it traveling to the location over the ground. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50262655
N.B. one (my) theory for the rav4 deaths is they were crushed under the snow by a tracked vehicle.

Some other parallels with the DPI, both have :-

• torn clothing.
• indications of burning - n.b. hydrogen sulphide can result in pulmonary edema (Yuri D's foam on cheek).
• scratches including the face.

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taylor_incident seems to dismiss the event as an epileptic attack etc but has no explanation for the marks in the ground as recorded by the police.
Currently my favourite theory for the DPI is that the location was attacked by Soviet missiles and cleaned up afterwards, but this introduces another question - "what were they firing at?".

Nice post about the Livingston Incident. Just one of many similar Incidents over time. Ball shaped objects behaving in such a way as to strongly suggest that they are being CONTROLLED. Physical Evidence left at the Scenes of these Incidents suggesting that they were not Man Made etc etc. And of course I suppose some similarity with The Dyatlov Pass Incident.

[sarapuk]

I don't know of any vehicle in 1959 yet alone today that could traverse that terrain in those conditions.   

Besides...  you would hear it coming a mile a way.   I used to sleep in a defensive position with M1 Abrams maneuvering all around me.... ask me how I know.

I think we can rule out battle tanks
 
According to some of the web pages on this incident the police investigation included examining the wider area for signs of a mobile crane being used to drop this object into place.

We can also rule out any kind of vehicle except maybe an EXTRATERRESTRIAL VEHICLE  !  ?  But maybe thats what the Balls are.

[Nigel Evans]

I don't know of any vehicle in 1959 yet alone today that could traverse that terrain in those conditions.   

Besides...  you would hear it coming a mile a way.   I used to sleep in a defensive position with M1 Abrams maneuvering all around me.... ask me how I know.

I think we can rule out battle tanks
 
According to some of the web pages on this incident the police investigation included examining the wider area for signs of a mobile crane being used to drop this object into place.

We can also rule out any kind of vehicle except maybe an EXTRATERRESTRIAL VEHICLE  !  ?  But maybe thats what the Balls are.

"Fire orbs, possibly piloted firing directed heat rays" - Lev Ivanov.

Personally I'd opt for electro magnetic. A clue lies in the observation that the edge of the object varied in opacity.

[sarapuk]

I don't know of any vehicle in 1959 yet alone today that could traverse that terrain in those conditions.   

Besides...  you would hear it coming a mile a way.   I used to sleep in a defensive position with M1 Abrams maneuvering all around me.... ask me how I know.

I think we can rule out battle tanks
 
According to some of the web pages on this incident the police investigation included examining the wider area for signs of a mobile crane being used to drop this object into place.

We can also rule out any kind of vehicle except maybe an EXTRATERRESTRIAL VEHICLE  !  ?  But maybe thats what the Balls are.

"Fire orbs, possibly piloted firing directed heat rays" - Lev Ivanov.

Personally I'd opt for electro magnetic. A clue lies in the observation that the edge of the object varied in opacity.

Well whatever. But the facts are that over the decades and probably centuries there have been reports of these Ball like objects and they seem to be CONTROLLED.

[Nigel Evans]

Yes, www.ball-lightning.info has a category of "Navigator" for instance.

[sarapuk]

Yes, www.ball-lightning.info has a category of "Navigator" for instance.

Good historical reports. But still a mystery as to the nature of the various phenomenon and how they are controlled.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Its...  a finger/hand or a strap that's too close to the lens and massively out of focus. 

#1 nobody in the picture seems too concerned about a killer black cloud.

#2 The camera operator isn't very interested in it either as he has his subject/subjects in center frame.

[Nigel Evans]

Its...  a finger/hand or a strap that's too close to the lens and massively out of focus. 

#1 nobody in the picture seems too concerned about a killer black cloud.

#2 The camera operator isn't very interested in it either as he has his subject/subjects in center frame.

???

[Loose}{Cannon]

Its...  a finger/hand or a strap that's too close to the lens and massively out of focus. 

#1 nobody in the picture seems too concerned about a killer black cloud.

#2 The camera operator isn't very interested in it either as he has his subject/subjects in center frame.

???

Whats the confusion?

My post was in reference to a picture and is self explanatory.   

[Nigel Evans]

Ah i see you're replying in November to a post i made in May.


I wonder why that would confuse me.... 




I hope all is well, long time no crossed swords.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Thats why it was quoted.     

[Nigel Evans]

Thats why it was quoted.     

I'm referring to post 250....


Just like old times...   

[Nigel Evans]

Rare jellyfish ufo filmed in Brazil, scroll down a bit.
https://www.ibtimes.com/video-captures-rare-jellyfish-ufo-flying-brazil-expert-claims-watch-2936414

[sarapuk]

Rare jellyfish ufo filmed in Brazil, scroll down a bit.
https://www.ibtimes.com/video-captures-rare-jellyfish-ufo-flying-brazil-expert-claims-watch-2936414

Whats the connection to your Ball Lightning Theory

[Nigel Evans]

Rare jellyfish ufo filmed in Brazil, scroll down a bit.
https://www.ibtimes.com/video-captures-rare-jellyfish-ufo-flying-brazil-expert-claims-watch-2936414

Whats the connection to your Ball Lightning Theory

That atmospheric electrical phenomenon although rare do exist, hence Ivanov's fire orbs theory was credible (it's his theory, not mine).

[alecsandros]

A Wikipedia article that includes reference to (possibly) ball lightining damage:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Island_(Newfoundland_and_Labrador)#Bell_Island_boom
"On April 2, 1978, there was a loud explosion on Bell Island which caused damage to some houses and the electrical house wiring in the surrounding area. Two cup-shaped holes about two feet deep and three feet wide marked the major impact. A number of TV sets in Lance Cove, the surrounding community, exploded at the time of the blast. It was initially thought to be caused by ball lightning.[7] Meteorologists stated that atmospheric conditions at the time were not conducive to lightning. The boom was heard 55 kilometers away in Cape Broyle. The impact occurred in the Bickfordville area, on the southwestern side of the island.

The incident was investigated by John Warren and Robert Freyman from Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory, in New Mexico. It has been speculated that, due to the two men's place of work, they were investigating a secret weapons test and were military attachés. However, reacting to data received from the Vela satellites, they were in fact investigating a "superbolt" – an unusually large bolt of lightning, lasting an unusually long time: about a thousandth of a second.[citation needed] "

[firefox]

I have read a recent article that suggests ball lightning is a good fit for Dyatlov Pass.  This is because this time, in 1978, a group of hikers survived a very similar encounter with tent-invasive ball lightning, that left terrible injuries.  I will paraphrase a survivors account;   "I woke up with a terrible feeling that something fearful had entered the tent.  I saw a luminous glowing ball hovering above the sleeping bags. Suddenly it dipped inside a bag whose owner let out a scream.  The ball dipped into each sleeping bag before mine, causing piercing cries of agony. Then it entered mine, and caused a terrible injury to the bone.  I passed out from pain and woke again to find the ball still hovering above the sleeping bags.  I needed desperately to escape."  This factual story from a survivor of ball lightning seems very close to what may have happened in Dyatlov...I will try and find the link.

I wish to thank those who pointed me and this error filled post in the right direction.  I did not know the original story here had been accurately and previously posted.  Thanks...

[WAB]

I have read a recent article that suggests ball lightning is a good fit for Dyatlov Pass.  This is because this time, in 1978, a group of hikers survived a very similar encounter with tent-invasive ball lightning, that left terrible injuries.  I will paraphrase a survivors account;   "I woke up with a terrible feeling that something fearful had entered the tent.  I saw a luminous glowing ball hovering above the sleeping bags. Suddenly it dipped inside a bag whose owner let out a scream.  The ball dipped into each sleeping bag before mine, causing piercing cries of agony. Then it entered mine, and caused a terrible injury to the bone.  I passed out from pain and woke again to find the ball still hovering above the sleeping bags.  I needed desperately to escape."  This factual story from a survivor of ball lightning seems very close to what may have happened in Dyatlov...I will try and find the link.

The description of this case has existed on this forum for almost 2 years:

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=184.30  November 16, 2018, 03:49:53 AM Reply #44

it is retelling himself Vladimir Kavunenko spich, which I heard from him, and compilation his article in the forum USSR mountaineers .

[WAB]

Just keeping this thread up to date with the relevant conversations happening on other threads.
So it would seem that there is a (very?) strong case for the NO2 theory. I've posted several links of objects or even no object at all! that are producing a plume of either black or orange "smoke" . Google image "ufo plume" or "ghost rocket" for these and more.
NO2 of course changes colour depending on temperature, getting darker as it gets hotter, more orange and more yellow as it cools down to it's boiling point of 21C - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide
On contact with moisture NO2 slowly converts to nitric acid and this means that NO2 is poisonous for any creature that breathes air, the lungs slowly lose function as the conversion takes place. N.B in humans this happens slowly in some cases taking two days depending on the degree of exposure. Google "silo fillers disease". On contact with skin the nitric acid reacts with the keratin in the skin to turn it yellow and orange.

So the theory is that during a period of record geomagnetic storms (1958/1959) combined with ionisation from a powerful snow storm from the west, the western ridge of Kholat Syakhl demonstrated visual electro magnetic phenomena that attracted the DP group to camp nearby behind the north eastern ridge and this phenomena was photographed by Semyon, in particular the Plane 2 photo captures a large object illuminating the snow storm below it and the small section of the snow covered hill. The theory is then that they had sadly camped downwind of this area which began producing a plume of acrid NO2 which explains the sudden decision to leave the tent but stand some distance away before descending the hill to the forest lightly dressed unable to return to the tent.
And of course the above theory fits very well with the Chivruay incident. A difficult to understand decision to break camp, half of the group fell ill and found lying in a row on top of the tent 10 metres from the edge of the precipice! Clearly unable to move to a safer location? Simultaneously fell ill? And of course yellow skin. It's a strong fit for the above theory.
And then there's the photograph :-

There seems to be some very black smoke in that picture that imo isn't a dense snow cloud....
Just saying....

Not a very convincing theory. And the black smoke is most likely to be due to some type of photographic error, be it film or camera etc.

All the people in that photo would be dead in say the next six hours. Five of them just lying down using a tent as a ground sheet and never getting up. All fit youngsters.

Something did it.

You say that all the people in that photo would be dead in say the next 6 hours  !  ? Any proof of that, i e, exact time please  !  ? 
And you also say that  5 of them just lying down and never getting up ! ? Can you be certain of this precise detail you give us ! ?

Unfortunately, I saw this part of the discussion very late, so I'm late in my response.
I don't think Mr. Nigel Evans can give you any proof. On the contrary, I can give you rebuttal his words: "All the people in that photo would be dead in say the next six hours. Five of them just lying down using a tent as a ground sheet and never getting up. All fit youngsters. " (с)
1.I myself printed (copied from film to photo paper) this photo in 1073 from Victor Samodelov's film (this is the head of the group that found the KuAI group - when reading by ear, it would be correct = QAI or QAU, if it is “institute” in the USSR = “university” in Western countries. All the more so now these educational units have been renamed anyway).
2. The dark spot on the top and right in this photo is slightly illuminated corner of photographic paper, because at that moment I had very little photographic paper and had to make copies on any photographic paper that I had. And that doesn't mean anything more than what I told you here.
3. So this photo has absolutely nothing to do with the Quai group, because it was only taken 24 hours after the death of the Quai group. Just like it has nothing to do with the ball lightning.
4. I'm not against the lightning bolt itself, I'm against being put in any place that people who are fans of the balloon want. Especially if it happens when it couldn't be there in principle. For example, as is in the case of this photo.

[Nigel Evans]

I have read a recent article that suggests ball lightning is a good fit for Dyatlov Pass.  This is because this time, in 1978, a group of hikers survived a very similar encounter with tent-invasive ball lightning, that left terrible injuries.  I will paraphrase a survivors account;   "I woke up with a terrible feeling that something fearful had entered the tent.  I saw a luminous glowing ball hovering above the sleeping bags. Suddenly it dipped inside a bag whose owner let out a scream.  The ball dipped into each sleeping bag before mine, causing piercing cries of agony. Then it entered mine, and caused a terrible injury to the bone.  I passed out from pain and woke again to find the ball still hovering above the sleeping bags.  I needed desperately to escape."  This factual story from a survivor of ball lightning seems very close to what may have happened in Dyatlov...I will try and find the link.

Hi firefox, as Mr WAB states it's been discussed before but when i view the thread in descending order it's reply #45

[Nigel Evans]

@WAB. Thanks for the info.

[firefox]

I have now read  quite a bit on DPI, and Yuri Yakimov's tale of bright lights, and approaching "swinging sets of moving lights" in a mine pit, and an exactly similar account given by Forest Ranger Rudkovskiy.  All note  frightening, approaching "swinging sets of lights" that approach only at a human glance. An analogy is made to the DPI & ball lightning, perhaps....A further example is given of an experienced taiga hunter who undressed and moved about the taiga for days before dying.  All these examples seem to include bright lights in the wilderness darkness.

However in the west, we also have in North America (where I am a forester) huge tundra and vast Northern forests, with immense Northern mountain ranges, its all very similar in our Canada.  Yet all these corroborating sights come from only one country, Russia.  How could this be, I think.  We in the West are trained to be rational only.  Superstition is out.  it does not make sense that no country other than Russia could have such events, surely? The topography and climate in Canada are the same.

Is it possible that something deep within Russia's society and culture and history, could be behind all these similar stories?  Why no bright swinging lights in our huge northern forests?

[firefox]

I have read a recent article that suggests ball lightning is a good fit for Dyatlov Pass.  This is because this time, in 1978, a group of hikers survived a very similar encounter with tent-invasive ball lightning, that left terrible injuries.  I will paraphrase a survivors account;   "I woke up with a terrible feeling that something fearful had entered the tent.  I saw a luminous glowing ball hovering above the sleeping bags. Suddenly it dipped inside a bag whose owner let out a scream.  The ball dipped into each sleeping bag before mine, causing piercing cries of agony. Then it entered mine, and caused a terrible injury to the bone.  I passed out from pain and woke again to find the ball still hovering above the sleeping bags.  I needed desperately to escape."  This factual story from a survivor of ball lightning seems very close to what may have happened in Dyatlov...I will try and find the link.

The description of this case has existed on this forum for almost 2 years:

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=184.30  November 16, 2018, 03:49:53 AM Reply #44

it is retelling himself Vladimir Kavunenko spich, which I heard from him, and compilation his article in the forum USSR mountaineers .

[sarapuk]

I have now read  quite a bit on DPI, and Yuri Yakimov's tale of bright lights, and approaching "swinging sets of moving lights" in a mine pit, and an exactly similar account given by Forest Ranger Rudkovskiy.  All note  frightening, approaching "swinging sets of lights" that approach only at a human glance. An analogy is made to the DPI & ball lightning, perhaps....A further example is given of an experienced taiga hunter who undressed and moved about the taiga for days before dying.  All these examples seem to include bright lights in the wilderness darkness.

However in the west, we also have in North America (where I am a forester) huge tundra and vast Northern forests, with immense Northern mountain ranges, its all very similar in our Canada.  Yet all these corroborating sights come from only one country, Russia.  How could this be, I think.  We in the West are trained to be rational only.  Superstition is out.  it does not make sense that no country other than Russia could have such events, surely? The topography and climate in Canada are the same.

Is it possible that something deep within Russia's society and culture and history, could be behind all these similar stories?  Why no bright swinging lights in our huge northern forests?

Well I have read a fair bit about similar phenomenon  in Northern America and Alaska and Canada as well. So its not just Russia where such things happen.

[firefox]

I have now read  quite a bit on DPI, and Yuri Yakimov's tale of bright lights, and approaching "swinging sets of moving lights" in a mine pit, and an exactly similar account given by Forest Ranger Rudkovskiy.  All note  frightening, approaching "swinging sets of lights" that approach only at a human glance. An analogy is made to the DPI & ball lightning, perhaps....A further example is given of an experienced taiga hunter who undressed and moved about the taiga for days before dying.  All these examples seem to include bright lights in the wilderness darkness.

However in the west, we also have in North America (where I am a forester) huge tundra and vast Northern forests, with immense Northern mountain ranges, its all very similar in our Canada.  Yet all these corroborating sights come from only one country, Russia.  How could this be, I think.  We in the West are trained to be rational only.  Superstition is out.  it does not make sense that no country other than Russia could have such events, surely? The topography and climate in Canada are the same.

Is it possible that something deep within Russia's society and culture and history, could be behind all these similar stories?  Why no bright swinging lights in our huge northern forests?

Well I have read a fair bit about similar phenomenon  in Northern America and Alaska and Canada as well. So its not just Russia where such things happen.

Thank you for the quick reply to my post.  I was wondering if you have a link for any stories you may have heard regarding    similar tales to the Russian ones, that originate in North America...? Thanks...

[NkZ]

How about min min lights?
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/jun/27/what-are-glowing-orbs-of-light-in-the-sky-world-over?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Nigel Evans]

There's lots of this phenomena. Probably every country in the world has multiple examples.