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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Soviet military  (Read 8353 times)

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February 20, 2019, 01:33:57 PM
Reply #90
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sarapuk

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Yes thats possible but there are other possible explanations. We dont know the weather conditions for all the time that the Tent was in its position before it was found. Weather can change quickly and dramatically any where in the World.
Baby it's cold outside (in Siberia).
Corrie glaciers form in the Urals from 2 degrees further north - http://hydrologie.org/redbooks/a054/054042.pdf

So what is it that you are suggesting  !  ?  GLACIERS at The Dyatlov Pass. New one on me. 
DB

February 20, 2019, 01:44:55 PM
Reply #91
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sarapuk

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O`K. That can convince you that of Russian transcription all in the same way as in the English?
I can add to it, the punishment reason was that was necessary as that react on that indignation which was in the Sverdlovsk city at that time. Punishment was formal though had unpleasant parts for those whom in the biggest degree have punished. Very quickly all has been overcome also all people have returned on former positions. That "guilty" have wasted some time for progress was negative only and have spent many emotions and “nervous energy” for overcoming of these troubles.

Thank you for clarification. Too bad we do not have their testimonies about the case or the at least who gave the order for those formal punishments.

EDIT: And more importantly, who or which department was in charge of introduction the exclusion zone for next 3 years in the area.
 

More good points. Seems like it wasnt only the local Admin that wasnt up to scratch. Higher up as well had  /  have some explaining to do. But like I have said, maybe the Higher Authority had no choice but to put the lid on the matter and close the Dyatlov Case down.  Today we may say its; NOT IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST TO DISCLOSE ANY MORE INFORMATION. So it will be very interesting to see the outcome of this NEW INVESTIGATION by todays Authorities.
DB

February 20, 2019, 02:05:01 PM
Reply #92
Online

Nigel Evans



Yes thats possible but there are other possible explanations. We dont know the weather conditions for all the time that the Tent was in its position before it was found. Weather can change quickly and dramatically any where in the World.
Baby it's cold outside (in Siberia).
Corrie glaciers form in the Urals from 2 degrees further north - http://hydrologie.org/redbooks/a054/054042.pdf

So what is it that you are suggesting  !  ?  GLACIERS at The Dyatlov Pass. New one on me.
You said - "Thats even less plausible.  You are going into very cold zones and higher altitudes with Neve."Not if the Urals have corrie glaciers. It's just that cold...

February 20, 2019, 04:02:50 PM
Reply #93
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sarapuk

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Yes thats possible but there are other possible explanations. We dont know the weather conditions for all the time that the Tent was in its position before it was found. Weather can change quickly and dramatically any where in the World.
Baby it's cold outside (in Siberia).
Corrie glaciers form in the Urals from 2 degrees further north - http://hydrologie.org/redbooks/a054/054042.pdf

So what is it that you are suggesting  !  ?  GLACIERS at The Dyatlov Pass. New one on me.
You said - "Thats even less plausible.  You are going into very cold zones and higher altitudes with Neve."Not if the Urals have corrie glaciers. It's just that cold...

But are there any GLACIERS in the Dyatlov pass area  !  ? 
DB

February 20, 2019, 05:20:53 PM
Reply #94
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GlennM


I believe the snow, coarse or fine, is a symptom, not a cause for the evacuation. They left with footprints diverging in the cold black night. Later, they regroup and make the long trek to the woods.To me, diverging footprints says," everyone for themselves,," Panic drove them from the tent. Rational minds decide to travel to the trees as a group. No one is brave/ foolhardy enough to go back. The threat had to be continuous.

However, something that was mentioned here sent me along a different tact. If the tent was ripped by the rescue party and/ or the snow mass, then the hikers would have left an intact camp. Question, is there any sense in the notion that hubris (pride) played a role? Could it be that Igor tasked his companions to make a survival trek to the woods and back, at night in undressed fashion  just so that their grade 3 certification meant something more? I understand that the majority of the trip was by vehicle, with little actual hiking. Could they have gotten so full of themselves as to gamble with the elements for the sake of pride?

Even smart people succumb to peer pressure. This being said, on the face of the matter everyone in the forum seems to like the group cutting themselves from the tent. To me, only an aerial threat would make sane people cut their tent, scatter, regroup and March 5,280 feet away from their coats and boots. You cant reason with a jet,nor the munitions. Please advise!

February 21, 2019, 12:12:11 PM
Reply #95
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sarapuk

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I believe the snow, coarse or fine, is a symptom, not a cause for the evacuation. They left with footprints diverging in the cold black night. Later, they regroup and make the long trek to the woods.To me, diverging footprints says," everyone for themselves,," Panic drove them from the tent. Rational minds decide to travel to the trees as a group. No one is brave/ foolhardy enough to go back. The threat had to be continuous.

However, something that was mentioned here sent me along a different tact. If the tent was ripped by the rescue party and/ or the snow mass, then the hikers would have left an intact camp. Question, is there any sense in the notion that hubris (pride) played a role? Could it be that Igor tasked his companions to make a survival trek to the woods and back, at night in undressed fashion  just so that their grade 3 certification meant something more? I understand that the majority of the trip was by vehicle, with little actual hiking. Could they have gotten so full of themselves as to gamble with the elements for the sake of pride?

Even smart people succumb to peer pressure. This being said, on the face of the matter everyone in the forum seems to like the group cutting themselves from the tent. To me, only an aerial threat would make sane people cut their tent, scatter, regroup and March 5,280 feet away from their coats and boots. You cant reason with a jet,nor the munitions. Please advise!

The Dyatlov Group were experienced outdoors people. It is highly unlikely that they would risk their lives in a very remote place just to satisfy some Grade Certificate. The weather became severe. Not everyone in this Forum subscribes to the Tent cutting theory or theories. Iam not convinced that the Tent was cut from the inside. The photos we have been shown of the Tent with the cuts or tears do not prove anything. The thing that caused the Group to abandon their SHELTER is obviously top of the list for this mystery. It neednt be an aerial threat it could be a land threat.
DB

February 21, 2019, 04:47:27 PM
Reply #96
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Star man

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I believe the snow, coarse or fine, is a symptom, not a cause for the evacuation. They left with footprints diverging in the cold black night. Later, they regroup and make the long trek to the woods.To me, diverging footprints says," everyone for themselves,," Panic drove them from the tent. Rational minds decide to travel to the trees as a group. No one is brave/ foolhardy enough to go back. The threat had to be continuous.

However, something that was mentioned here sent me along a different tact. If the tent was ripped by the rescue party and/ or the snow mass, then the hikers would have left an intact camp. Question, is there any sense in the notion that hubris (pride) played a role? Could it be that Igor tasked his companions to make a survival trek to the woods and back, at night in undressed fashion  just so that their grade 3 certification meant something more? I understand that the majority of the trip was by vehicle, with little actual hiking. Could they have gotten so full of themselves as to gamble with the elements for the sake of pride?

Even smart people succumb to peer pressure. This being said, on the face of the matter everyone in the forum seems to like the group cutting themselves from the tent. To me, only an aerial threat would make sane people cut their tent, scatter, regroup and March 5,280 feet away from their coats and boots. You cant reason with a jet,nor the munitions. Please advise!

I think leaving without shoes and outdoor gear, especially when you look at the two Yuris would be more of a suicide mission than a level 3 challenge.  It wouldn't make sense IMO.

February 22, 2019, 01:09:04 PM
Reply #97
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sarapuk

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I believe the snow, coarse or fine, is a symptom, not a cause for the evacuation. They left with footprints diverging in the cold black night. Later, they regroup and make the long trek to the woods.To me, diverging footprints says," everyone for themselves,," Panic drove them from the tent. Rational minds decide to travel to the trees as a group. No one is brave/ foolhardy enough to go back. The threat had to be continuous.

However, something that was mentioned here sent me along a different tact. If the tent was ripped by the rescue party and/ or the snow mass, then the hikers would have left an intact camp. Question, is there any sense in the notion that hubris (pride) played a role? Could it be that Igor tasked his companions to make a survival trek to the woods and back, at night in undressed fashion  just so that their grade 3 certification meant something more? I understand that the majority of the trip was by vehicle, with little actual hiking. Could they have gotten so full of themselves as to gamble with the elements for the sake of pride?

Even smart people succumb to peer pressure. This being said, on the face of the matter everyone in the forum seems to like the group cutting themselves from the tent. To me, only an aerial threat would make sane people cut their tent, scatter, regroup and March 5,280 feet away from their coats and boots. You cant reason with a jet,nor the munitions. Please advise!

I think leaving without shoes and outdoor gear, especially when you look at the two Yuris would be more of a suicide mission than a level 3 challenge.  It wouldn't make sense IMO.


Absolutely, suicide mission would sound about right if any one went out into the open not fully clothed and equipped and walked a mile in those conditions. But at least all these theories are worth bringing up so we can truly narrow it down.
DB

February 22, 2019, 03:31:39 PM
Reply #98
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I believe the snow, coarse or fine, is a symptom, not a cause for the evacuation. They left with footprints diverging in the cold black night. Later, they regroup and make the long trek to the woods.To me, diverging footprints says," everyone for themselves,," Panic drove them from the tent. Rational minds decide to travel to the trees as a group. No one is brave/ foolhardy enough to go back. The threat had to be continuous.

However, something that was mentioned here sent me along a different tact. If the tent was ripped by the rescue party and/ or the snow mass, then the hikers would have left an intact camp. Question, is there any sense in the notion that hubris (pride) played a role? Could it be that Igor tasked his companions to make a survival trek to the woods and back, at night in undressed fashion  just so that their grade 3 certification meant something more? I understand that the majority of the trip was by vehicle, with little actual hiking. Could they have gotten so full of themselves as to gamble with the elements for the sake of pride?

Even smart people succumb to peer pressure. This being said, on the face of the matter everyone in the forum seems to like the group cutting themselves from the tent. To me, only an aerial threat would make sane people cut their tent, scatter, regroup and March 5,280 feet away from their coats and boots. You cant reason with a jet,nor the munitions. Please advise!

I think leaving without shoes and outdoor gear, especially when you look at the two Yuris would be more of a suicide mission than a level 3 challenge.  It wouldn't make sense IMO.


Absolutely, suicide mission would sound about right if any one went out into the open not fully clothed and equipped and walked a mile in those conditions. But at least all these theories are worth bringing up so we can truly narrow it down.

Agree.  It's right to raise any possible options for discussion.  We need lateral thinking?

February 22, 2019, 04:38:25 PM
Reply #99
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GlennM


All behavior is motivated. What motivates group hysteria, or group panic? I've seen enough sinking ship movies to know that the overwhelming prospect of death is compelling. I also know in those same movies that individual heroisms occur. A heroism is actually an individua'l's decision at some deep level that ,"I can beat the odds".
When the expedition left the tent, all were of the same mindset, namely nobody was going to be a hero, nobody was going to beat the odds. Of all the possible scenarios, only an unreasoning overwhelming force suffices. I still hold to aerial assault, unintentional aerial assault..

Back to the statement of motivation, and with an appreciative nod to lateral thinking, can we make an argument that instead of being pushed from the tent, they were drawn out instead?  The reward would be incredible, given what they left behind. Can you imagine anything that would actually draw them away from camp voluntarily?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 04:46:15 PM by GlennM »

March 05, 2019, 12:06:39 PM
Reply #100
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GlennM


Daily Mail: Passengers scramble to safety after flight from China to LA is forced to make emergency landing.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6772417/Passengers-scramble-safety-flight-China-LA-forced-make-emergency-landing.html

This is what it takes to get people out of a tent. Can you forge a connection to Soviet military exercises?

March 06, 2019, 01:44:07 PM
Reply #101
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sarapuk

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Daily Mail: Passengers scramble to safety after flight from China to LA is forced to make emergency landing.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6772417/Passengers-scramble-safety-flight-China-LA-forced-make-emergency-landing.html

This is what it takes to get people out of a tent. Can you forge a connection to Soviet military exercises?

There is no comparison  !  ?  The people in the plane are in a completely different situation. The people in the Tent are not in a Tent that may EXPLODE.
DB