November 23, 2024, 06:27:38 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Is this a record of Yuri K limping?  (Read 40091 times)

0 Members and 28 Guests are viewing this topic.

February 21, 2020, 03:27:39 AM
Read 40091 times
Offline

Nigel Evans



Yuri K of course suffering a huge burn (30cm long) on his left lower leg at some point. The missile (and ball lightning) theories are the only ones that allow for this to happen on the descent.

Points in favour :-
  • If he was being assisted his partner(s) would be carrying some of his weight as well as their own and the footstep on the left does seem particularly deep.
  • The assistant would put Yuri's left arm across his shoulder and pull him in closely to take his weight. The left footstep is very close to the right"drag".
  • The "drag" shows a slight decrease of width in the middle which imo fits with a limp, the start and end of the sweep of the foot making more of an impression than the faster middle part.
  • Anything that could result in that burn would very probably warm the surrounding snow and of course ever since the first rescuers found the raised footsteps there has been a debate on their causes.
  • The asymmetric frostbite exhibited by the two Yuris fits with the theory that having split up into two groups during the descent, one group suffered grievous injuries and poisoning and whilst Zinaida/Rustem/Igor laid down and died, these two carried on to the cedar but very slowly giving the windchill much more time.
 

February 21, 2020, 01:14:19 PM
Reply #1
Offline

MDGross


Good detective work in the analysis of the photo. A few questions:
Wouldn't nitric acid from an exploded missile cover a wide enough area to burn to some degree everyone fleeing the tent? One serious burn to one leg of one hiker seems as if the nitric acid was aimed to hit Yuri K and how could that be?
Couldn't the deep footprint be caused by one of the hikers assisting Slobodin who seems to have suffered a severe head wound descending the slope?
If Zinaida/Rustem/Igor were severely injured during the descent, wouldn't their bodies have been found with their heads pointing toward the forest instead of their heads pointing toward the tent? Do you believe their serious injuries were caused by the exploding missile?
 

February 21, 2020, 02:08:12 PM
Reply #2
Offline

Nigel Evans


Good detective work in the analysis of the photo. A few questions:
Wouldn't nitric acid from an exploded missile cover a wide enough area to burn to some degree everyone fleeing the tent? One serious burn to one leg of one hiker seems as if the nitric acid was aimed to hit Yuri K and how could that be?The real danger isn't from one of the rocket fuels but if they combine, then they spontaneously react. So if (say) a rocket breaks up at altitude and spews it's two fuels into the air and downstream on the wind they could stay apart with the wind forming them into a mist/aerosol. If one of these steams hits the group then they're going to suffer unpleasant consequences but not necessarily burns. Only if you're unlucky and get a splash from both it would ignite and burn (hydrazine can reach 800C in milliseconds). N.b. there was a lot of fragments of burnt clothing at the cedar....
A neat spin off from this theory of "separated streams of rocket fuel" is that if they cross paths in the air and reignite then you've got... fire orbs...
Couldn't the deep footprint be caused by one of the hikers assisting Slobodin who seems to have suffered a severe head wound descending the slope?I like the idea that Yuri D was occupied by Yuri K as he was clearly limping badly and the others were walking wounded at least initially.
If Zinaida/Rustem/Igor were severely injured during the descent, wouldn't their bodies have been found with their heads pointing toward the forest instead of their heads pointing toward the tent? Do you believe their serious injuries were caused by the exploding missile?No if they were conscious when they laid down they would face up the mountain what's the first thing you do if you fall when skiing? Someone placed Rustem's cap on his head very neatly btw. Only Rustem had injuries, Zinaida and Igor would be a better fit for poisoned.
 

February 21, 2020, 03:07:32 PM
Reply #3
Offline

Nigel Evans


I forgot to mention. There were reports of orange snow and of course the orange powder on Yuri D's garment.
 

February 22, 2020, 08:27:01 AM
Reply #4
Offline

MDGross


If a missile did explode, your explanation of the fire orbs is certainly believable. Still the odds seem too great that only one hiker would be splashed with burning fuel. If he were, I've got to think the fuel would incinerate his entire body.

Although Dyatlov had no broken bones, he apparently did vomit blood. If inhaling toxic rocket fuel caused this, then wouldn't all the hikers be throwing up blood? Weren't they in close enough proximity to be breathing the same air? It is difficult to fathom why he vomited blood. So your theory could help explain that. The only other explanation that seems to make sense is that he suffered a severe blow to his abdomen. Perhaps that points to he and several others being struck hard by rifle butts.
 
 

February 22, 2020, 08:52:37 AM
Reply #5
Offline

Nigel Evans


If a missile did explode, your explanation of the fire orbs is certainly believable. Still the odds seem too great that only one hiker would be splashed with burning fuel. If he were, I've got to think the fuel would incinerate his entire body. Splash is the wrong word, think of rain or a mist perhaps. The high winds could create high local variance in density perhaps.

Although Dyatlov had no broken bones, he apparently did vomit blood. If inhaling toxic rocket fuel caused this, then wouldn't all the hikers be throwing up blood? Weren't they in close enough proximity to be breathing the same air? It is difficult to fathom why he vomited blood. So your theory could help explain that. The only other explanation that seems to make sense is that he suffered a severe blow to his abdomen. Perhaps that points to he and several others being struck hard by rifle butts. Something hit his face for sure.
 

February 22, 2020, 04:10:21 PM
Reply #6
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Yuris burns are most likely a result of the fire that was made.  Either happened after death or trying to warm themselves before they died. Is that not the simple explanation?

Regards

Star man
 

February 23, 2020, 03:35:09 AM
Reply #7
Offline

Nigel Evans


Yuris burns are most likely a result of the fire that was made.  Either happened after death or trying to warm themselves before they died. Is that not the simple explanation?

Regards

Star man
The best explanation for Zinaida/Igor and Rustem is that they never made it down. If so then something caused that. That something might have caused Yuri's burn as well as. If you embrace the "high energy theories" like ball lightning or rocket ordnance then it's easy to group Yuri's leg with this "something". Then you have a good explanation for the asymmetry of frostbite with the 2 Yuri's having the worst. The probability of the fire being the cause is extremely low unless you consider torture.
 

February 23, 2020, 11:43:44 PM
Reply #8
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Yuris burns are most likely a result of the fire that was made.  Either happened after death or trying to warm themselves before they died. Is that not the simple explanation?

Regards

Star man
The best explanation for Zinaida/Igor and Rustem is that they never made it down. If so then something caused that. That something might have caused Yuri's burn as well as. If you embrace the "high energy theories" like ball lightning or rocket ordnance then it's easy to group Yuri's leg with this "something". Then you have a good explanation for the asymmetry of frostbite with the 2 Yuri's having the worst. The probability of the fire being the cause is extremely low unless you consider torture.

We don’t know for sure whether they made it down or not.  A ladies handkerchief was found near the cedar so I suspect either Zina or Lyuda was at the cedar at some point. 

I think the fire being the cause of the burns is highly likely, especially given the localised nature of them.  If there was a bigger event responsible you would expect greater fire damage to the tent or to the other hikers.

Regards
Star man
 

February 24, 2020, 02:56:33 AM
Reply #9
Offline

Nigel Evans


Yuris burns are most likely a result of the fire that was made.  Either happened after death or trying to warm themselves before they died. Is that not the simple explanation?

Regards

Star man
The best explanation for Zinaida/Igor and Rustem is that they never made it down. If so then something caused that. That something might have caused Yuri's burn as well as. If you embrace the "high energy theories" like ball lightning or rocket ordnance then it's easy to group Yuri's leg with this "something". Then you have a good explanation for the asymmetry of frostbite with the 2 Yuri's having the worst. The probability of the fire being the cause is extremely low unless you consider torture.

We don’t know for sure whether they made it down or not.  A ladies handkerchief was found near the cedar so I suspect either Zina or Lyuda was at the cedar at some point. 

I think the fire being the cause of the burns is highly likely, especially given the localised nature of them.  If there was a bigger event responsible you would expect greater fire damage to the tent or to the other hikers.

Regards
Star man
So it's a case of the campfire burning his leg due to too close proximity versus some burning agent landing on his leg/foot from above.
From the autopsy :-"On the left leg is a torn cotton sock, the edges of which are burned.""The rear of the left foot is dark brown in color with subcutaneous defects of the epidermis with a size of 10 x 4 cm. The back of the second toe is charred and the skin is dark brown in color and tight when palpated. "
Here's the photo :-
 
 

Note the marks on the thigh that seem to have a repeating style.
So this is a quite selective camp fire? A 31cm burn on the leg which blows the skin, signs of heating on the foot still covered with a sock which is not burnt except for the edges and just one of his toes is charred but only on the back? (i'm assuming the back of the toe is the side that has the nail?). This "charred" word is very significant imo. How do you put your foot in a fire and only do that to one side of one toe?

Now if instead you want to consider some highly reactive "rain" landing on these areas then you have an excellent fit (imo).

Regards.
 

February 24, 2020, 08:51:33 AM
Reply #10
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
How would a chemical burn create charring of the toe?

Charring is a process of burning, drying out and carbonising.  Chemical burns tend to break down tissue.

If his sock was wet then he could still burn his foot inside via hot water/steam as the sock is heated without burning the sock.  I think out of shear desperation he may have tried to warn his feet too close to the fire without realising his foot and leg was burning.  He may not have been able to feel them.  Their plight was truly desperate.

Regards
Star man
 

February 24, 2020, 09:27:41 AM
Reply #11
Offline

Nigel Evans


How would a chemical burn create charring of the toe? Err, by being very hot? Hundreds of degrees...

Charring is a process of burning, drying out and carbonising.  Chemical burns tend to break down tissue. I think you're thinking acid burn, i'm thinking just very hot.

If his sock was wet then he could still burn his foot inside via hot water/steam as the sock is heated without burning the sock.  I think out of shear desperation he may have tried to warn his feet too close to the fire and charred one side of one toe? without realising his foot and leg was burning.  He may not have been able to feel them.  Their plight was truly desperate. Lyudmila and Alexander were in the same situation but but no sign of burns or frostbite?

Regards
Star man
 

February 24, 2020, 01:20:15 PM
Reply #12
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The PRINTS in the snow are one of the more intriguing aspects of this Dyatlov Mystery. Despite all the talk of FOOTPRINTS caused by the Dyatlov Group we still can not be certain that in fact they were caused by them  !  ?  It is an ASSUMPTION.  Do we have photos showing every so called footprint and which of the Dyatlov Group made that print  !  ?  And what about the reports of other prints that were HUGE in comparison that were observed by some members of the search parties  !  ? 
DB
 

February 24, 2020, 02:21:43 PM
Reply #13
Offline

neni_cesty_zpet


According to https://dyatlovpass.com/1959-search , there were 8-9 footprints left by people who wore almost no footwear.....Sane people usually wear some kind of boots in snow under normal conditions....
 

February 24, 2020, 03:23:07 PM
Reply #14
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
How would a chemical burn create charring of the toe? Err, by being very hot? Hundreds of degrees...

Charring is a process of burning, drying out and carbonising.  Chemical burns tend to break down tissue. I think you're thinking acid burn, i'm thinking just very hot.

If his sock was wet then he could still burn his foot inside via hot water/steam as the sock is heated without burning the sock.  I think out of shear desperation he may have tried to warn his feet too close to the fire and charred one side of one toe? without realising his foot and leg was burning.  He may not have been able to feel them.  Their plight was truly desperate. Lyudmila and Alexander were in the same situation but but no sign of burns or frostbite?

Regards
Star man

Yes I thought you were referring to chemical burns, but even if there had been an explosion with chemical fuel agents spraying around why would the tent not be burned?  Also during the event where do you think Yuri K would be?  Unlikely to have been outside with little clothing on, where he could have come into contact with burning chemicals/fuel?

Regards

Star man
 

February 24, 2020, 03:32:35 PM
Reply #15
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The PRINTS in the snow are one of the more intriguing aspects of this Dyatlov Mystery. Despite all the talk of FOOTPRINTS caused by the Dyatlov Group we still can not be certain that in fact they were caused by them  !  ?  It is an ASSUMPTION.  Do we have photos showing every so called footprint and which of the Dyatlov Group made that print  !  ?  And what about the reports of other prints that were HUGE in comparison that were observed by some members of the search parties  !  ?

The fact that the investigation didn't produce more detailed analysis of the foot prints is surprising.  Would have expected many more photographs and measurements of feet etc.  Do we know how long the footprints were there for and whether they were still there when the investigators arrived?

Very large foot prints would obviously be of major interest you might expect, especially given what they had written in the pamphlet..  saying that I don't remember seeing any witness statements about large foot prints either.  The Discovery channel documentary did an interview - think it was with Sheravin at the Dyatlov foundation where large foot prints were mentioned, but it seems that this was is-is interpretation of what was actually said.  Things that don't really help. nea1

Regards
Star man
 

February 24, 2020, 11:42:11 PM
Reply #16
Offline

Nigel Evans


The PRINTS in the snow are one of the more intriguing aspects of this Dyatlov Mystery. Despite all the talk of FOOTPRINTS caused by the Dyatlov Group we still can not be certain that in fact they were caused by them  !  ?  It is an ASSUMPTION.  Do we have photos showing every so called footprint and which of the Dyatlov Group made that print  !  ?  And what about the reports of other prints that were HUGE in comparison that were observed by some members of the search parties  !  ?
Hi, i've been following the dpi for years and have never been made aware of these huge footprints?
 

February 24, 2020, 11:43:41 PM
Reply #17
Offline

Nigel Evans


According to https://dyatlovpass.com/1959-search , there were 8-9 footprints left by people who wore almost no footwear.....Sane people usually wear some kind of boots in snow under normal conditions....
Quite right.
 

February 24, 2020, 11:52:09 PM
Reply #18
Offline

Nigel Evans


How would a chemical burn create charring of the toe? Err, by being very hot? Hundreds of degrees...

Charring is a process of burning, drying out and carbonising.  Chemical burns tend to break down tissue. I think you're thinking acid burn, i'm thinking just very hot.

If his sock was wet then he could still burn his foot inside via hot water/steam as the sock is heated without burning the sock.  I think out of shear desperation he may have tried to warn his feet too close to the fire and charred one side of one toe? without realising his foot and leg was burning.  He may not have been able to feel them.  Their plight was truly desperate. Lyudmila and Alexander were in the same situation but but no sign of burns or frostbite?

Regards
Star man

Yes I thought you were referring to chemical burns, but even if there had been an explosion with chemical fuel agents spraying around why would the tent not be burned?  Also during the event where do you think Yuri K would be?  Unlikely to have been outside with little clothing on, where he could have come into contact with burning chemicals/fuel?

Regards

Star man
The theory would fit with everything and everyone being sprayed with one fuel component (e.g.) hydrazine but with the other fuel component (e.g.) nitric acid in discrete amounts. The tent fabric shows signs of being very flimsy, lots of tears but only on one side as if one side escaped exposure and one side didn't.
 

February 25, 2020, 08:52:05 AM
Reply #19
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
How would a chemical burn create charring of the toe? Err, by being very hot? Hundreds of degrees...

Charring is a process of burning, drying out and carbonising.  Chemical burns tend to break down tissue. I think you're thinking acid burn, i'm thinking just very hot.

If his sock was wet then he could still burn his foot inside via hot water/steam as the sock is heated without burning the sock.  I think out of shear desperation he may have tried to warn his feet too close to the fire and charred one side of one toe? without realising his foot and leg was burning.  He may not have been able to feel them.  Their plight was truly desperate. Lyudmila and Alexander were in the same situation but but no sign of burns or frostbite?

Regards
Star man

Yes I thought you were referring to chemical burns, but even if there had been an explosion with chemical fuel agents spraying around why would the tent not be burned?  Also during the event where do you think Yuri K would be?  Unlikely to have been outside with little clothing on, where he could have come into contact with burning chemicals/fuel?

Regards

Star man
The theory would fit with everything and everyone being sprayed with one fuel component (e.g.) hydrazine but with the other fuel component (e.g.) nitric acid in discrete amounts. The tent fabric shows signs of being very flimsy, lots of tears but only on one side as if one side escaped exposure and one side didn't.

Given the likely amount of fuel there would be in a rocket and some kind of crash landing explosion of the hyperbolic rocket fuel I can’t see how it could spray onto the tent and burn only a persons foot, leg or toe?  A huge fire ball would be more fitting?  I just can’t see it 
dunno1

Regards
Star man
 

February 25, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Reply #20
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The PRINTS in the snow are one of the more intriguing aspects of this Dyatlov Mystery. Despite all the talk of FOOTPRINTS caused by the Dyatlov Group we still can not be certain that in fact they were caused by them  !  ?  It is an ASSUMPTION.  Do we have photos showing every so called footprint and which of the Dyatlov Group made that print  !  ?  And what about the reports of other prints that were HUGE in comparison that were observed by some members of the search parties  !  ?
Hi, i've been following the dpi for years and have never been made aware of these huge footprints?

Well they are mentioned even if they are not mentioned in the so called official records.
DB
 

February 25, 2020, 12:15:33 PM
Reply #21
Offline

Nigel Evans


How would a chemical burn create charring of the toe? Err, by being very hot? Hundreds of degrees...

Charring is a process of burning, drying out and carbonising.  Chemical burns tend to break down tissue. I think you're thinking acid burn, i'm thinking just very hot.

If his sock was wet then he could still burn his foot inside via hot water/steam as the sock is heated without burning the sock.  I think out of shear desperation he may have tried to warn his feet too close to the fire and charred one side of one toe? without realising his foot and leg was burning.  He may not have been able to feel them.  Their plight was truly desperate. Lyudmila and Alexander were in the same situation but but no sign of burns or frostbite?

Regards
Star man

Yes I thought you were referring to chemical burns, but even if there had been an explosion with chemical fuel agents spraying around why would the tent not be burned?  Also during the event where do you think Yuri K would be?  Unlikely to have been outside with little clothing on, where he could have come into contact with burning chemicals/fuel?

Regards

Star man
The theory would fit with everything and everyone being sprayed with one fuel component (e.g.) hydrazine but with the other fuel component (e.g.) nitric acid in discrete amounts. The tent fabric shows signs of being very flimsy, lots of tears but only on one side as if one side escaped exposure and one side didn't.

Given the likely amount of fuel there would be in a rocket and some kind of crash landing explosion of the hyperbolic rocket fuel I can’t see how it could spray onto the tent and burn only a persons foot, leg or toe?  A huge fire ball would be more fitting?  I just can’t see it 
 dunno1

Regards
Star man
Ah you want a narrative? You've come to the right place, i'm good at narratives.  kewl1
Remember these fuels are hypergolic and lets assume a 1 to 1 reaction ratio, i.e. if you throw 1 ton of fuelA into a swimming pool containing 10 tones of fuelB then you have 0 tons of fuelA and 9 tons of fuelB. (albeit very hot and somewhat dispersed!).
So a narrative.
  • A large rocket containing an equal amount of fuelA and fuelB, lets say 10 tons of each flies overhead.
  • Normal rocket construction is that the fuels are kept apart in separate tanks one above the other.
  • A SAM hits this rocket and ruptures one of the tanks badly (fuelA) but not the tank containing fuelB.
  • As the doomed rocket plunges to earth it spews most of it's quantity of fuelA onto the mountain below, including the descending DP group. N.B. the group has split up into two and one half is lucky and the other half isn't. Lyudmila in the lucky half does show signs of facial exposure to fuelA (white chin) but otherwise they're ok.
  • Then it hits the ground with 1 ton of fuelA left inside and 10 tons of fuelB which breaks up both tanks and the hypergolic fuels mix and explode.
  • The explosion throws a large quantity of the unspent fuelB into the air with a lot of pieces of the rocket's waffle skin.
  • The heavier pieces of rocket don't travel far but the smaller and lighter pieces travel downwind onto the unlucky half who are descending the slope.
  • Due to the 360 degree nature of the explosion, only a small quantity of unspent fuelB and metal lands at the unlucky half's location injuring several. Igor and YuriK get peculiar curved marks terminating in perpendicular parallel stripes. Igor gets his on his face. YuriK two on his left thigh, with a third deeper stripe say 2-3mm deep as if something melted the skin. FuelA is stinging their faces and eyes so they hold their hands to their faces to try and protect. This results in damage to the hands including caused by metal fragments. YuriD gets a stripe on his forearm and small angled burn. YuriK unluckily gets a splash of fuelB onto his trousers that have already been soaked in fuelA. A tiny drop of fuelB lands on his sock above the second toe. YuriK gets a bad burn and is limping badly causing YuriD to dedicate himself to him to get him down the slope.
  • A short time later Rustem cannot see properly and falls badly creating internal bleeding. He will shortly give up.
  • Zinaida and Igor cannot see properly, Zinaida is feeling very unwell and her face is covered in blood from open sores. She lies down to die.
  • After tending to Rustem and placing his hat neatly on his head Igor struggles on, his head orifices are bleeding and he has vomited. Stumbling into the tree line he picks up a lot of scratches around his ankles from vegetation. He starts crawling getting more scratches on his wrists.
  • Finally he succumbs.
  • The 2 Yuri's make it to the cedar, the fire acting as a beacon but YuriK is in enormous pain and dies of shock shortly after biting his hand.
  • YuriD is overcome with the guilt of leaving the other three on the descent. They were all close friends and he had dated Zinaida for a time. Although suffering from frostbite he climbs the cedar to try and call out to them.
  • The frostbite makes him clumsy and/or he suffers a pulmonary edema (from either breathing fuelA or hypothermia) causing him to fall badly out of the tree and die.
  • The den is ready and the remaining four decide that searching the mountain for the other three is suicide and given the state of the 2 Yuris probably pointless, they strip the 2Yuris and retire to the den.
  • Sometime later at dawn something heavy rolls over the den and crushes the occupants under the snow probably whilst they were sleeping. Semyon had been trying to make notes but had dozed off.
May they rest in peace.


 

February 26, 2020, 08:35:29 AM
Reply #22
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Still struggling with the concept that the burns were caused by fuel. 

At what altitude would you think a SAM would intercept a rocket?  Would think that even if fuel was not ignited at that point it would disperse over a fairly large area as an aerosol?

I am not trying to rule out some kind of missile as the cause in particular.  Just struggle to see the burns as evidence given there is also a clear alternative.

Regards
Star man
 

February 26, 2020, 09:54:07 AM
Reply #23
Offline

Nigel Evans


Still struggling with the concept that the burns were caused by fuel. 

At what altitude would you think a SAM would intercept a rocket?  Would think that even if fuel was not ignited at that point it would disperse over a fairly large area as an aerosol?

I am not trying to rule out some kind of missile as the cause in particular.  Just struggle to see the burns as evidence given there is also a clear alternative. But a single side of single toe charred in a camp fire isn't a clear alternative?

Regards
Star man
 

February 27, 2020, 12:08:28 AM
Reply #24
Offline

Nigel Evans


Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.
  • What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
  • As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/

Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/
 

February 27, 2020, 08:33:17 AM
Reply #25
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Still struggling with the concept that the burns were caused by fuel. 

At what altitude would you think a SAM would intercept a rocket?  Would think that even if fuel was not ignited at that point it would disperse over a fairly large area as an aerosol?

I am not trying to rule out some kind of missile as the cause in particular.  Just struggle to see the burns as evidence given there is also a clear alternative. But a single side of single toe charred in a camp fire isn't a clear alternative?

Regards
Star man

But the single side of a single toe is even more difficult an argument to make for a rocket explosion?

Regards
Star man
 

February 27, 2020, 08:41:47 AM
Reply #26
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.
  • What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
  • As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/

Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/

You will notice too that the nitric acid vaporises and disperses as it exhausts under pressure and the whole thing becomes a fire ball when it breaks up.

Regards

Star man

 

February 27, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Reply #27
Offline

Nigel Evans


Still struggling with the concept that the burns were caused by fuel. 

At what altitude would you think a SAM would intercept a rocket?  Would think that even if fuel was not ignited at that point it would disperse over a fairly large area as an aerosol?

I am not trying to rule out some kind of missile as the cause in particular.  Just struggle to see the burns as evidence given there is also a clear alternative. But a single side of single toe charred in a camp fire isn't a clear alternative?

Regards
Star man

But the single side of a single toe is even more difficult an argument to make for a rocket explosion?

Regards
Star man
No that's the whole point. When used as a monopropellant, hydrazine can reach 800C in milliseconds. Presumably nitric acid delivers a similar result. Just needs a drop of one component onto a sock soaked with the other. Is there any other way to charr just one side of one toe?
 

February 27, 2020, 10:15:57 AM
Reply #28
Offline

Nigel Evans


Here's a video of a Proton M launch "going wrong". The ProtonM began in 1965 so not directly relevant to the DPI but there are a couple of relevant points.
  • What seems to happen here is that the hydrazine supply is faulty, but note the unspent nitric acid (orange smoke).
  • As it goes faster it is structurally weak wrt lateral forces from sideways atmospheric drag and the top section breaks away. note the similarity to the plane 2 photo.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/781937554034589386/

Just for entertainment here's another vid of some Mig29s playing, ah. Getting a bit close to the ground there guys...
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/652036852282561846/

You will notice too that the nitric acid vaporises and disperses as it exhausts under pressure and the whole thing becomes a fire ball when it breaks up.

Regards

Star man
Disperse does not mean go away.
 

February 27, 2020, 11:38:34 PM
Reply #29
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Still struggling with the concept that the burns were caused by fuel. 

At what altitude would you think a SAM would intercept a rocket?  Would think that even if fuel was not ignited at that point it would disperse over a fairly large area as an aerosol?

I am not trying to rule out some kind of missile as the cause in particular.  Just struggle to see the burns as evidence given there is also a clear alternative. But a single side of single toe charred in a camp fire isn't a clear alternative?

Regards
Star man

But the single side of a single toe is even more difficult an argument to make for a rocket explosion?

Regards
Star man
No that's the whole point. When used as a monopropellant, hydrazine can reach 800C in milliseconds. Presumably nitric acid delivers a similar result. Just needs a drop of one component onto a sock soaked with the other. Is there any other way to charr just one side of one toe?

Think about it though - if Krivo had been exposed to the fuel and his foot was on fire do you honestly think that he would let it  continue to burn until his toe was charred?  Just putting his foot or leg in some snow would have have quenched the burning even if it did not immediately stop it?

Regards
Star man