August 10, 2020, 01:52:01 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: We may never really know what happened  (Read 2264 times)

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June 10, 2020, 05:18:23 PM
Reply #60
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Thanks PJ and Starman.  1) I think they must have had some daylight or they could NOT have done everything they supposedly did.  When it is pitch black, everything is done by feel alone. 2) Regarding Alexander  ( if he was the last one to die), He was young and fit, the tent was still standing and he could have gone back to it at some point and he could have taken valenki (and more) from Simon and Nickolas.  3)  I don't think Simon and Nickolas were "on watch".  Somewhere on this forum, it was stated  that they didn't need watchmen ( outside of the tent).  They would have only needed watchmen to watch their property while they were stuck in a train station (for example) or to watch the stove while it was burning (which it wasn't that night).  4) If the rav4 supposedly fell into the ravine and died where they lay, could someone   please explain to me how Lyuda fell facing one direction and hit full force facing another and also further away than the others.  If the water was not frozen,  then how is it that she and Nickolas didn't drown (their faces were in the water).  I read about the unfrozen stream  somewhere on this forum also. ( There is so much information on this forum it is hard to keep track of it all.  THANKS TEDDY.)

I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me how (or tell me about a site) hypothermia and frostbite come to be and its progress.  I have looked online and could not find what I thought was a good site.  I think someone once may have posted a site but I could not find that either. Thanks.

I think they must have had some visibility but it was probably limited.  I dont think it was day.  The camp was set up fairly late and the flashlights indicate it was dark.

I think Kolevatov died of exhaustion and the cold, but there are lots of opinions and speculation here, 

The best place to start any research is via the case files and information that Teddy has compiled. 

Regards

Star man


June 13, 2020, 12:15:26 PM
Reply #61
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WAB


Those injuries cannot be attributable to infrasound.

The infrasound theory was developed by Donnie Eichar and is thoroughly detailed in his book 'Dead Mountain.'

Yes, except I can't say that he developed that theory himself. I counseled him, and I told him a lot. If you've read this book, there are many references to me.
Unfortunately, I couldn't explain to him several separate but important details of the phenomenon.
For example, he writes about tornado vortexes near the tent, but it never happens there. The role of the amplifier, to create power like a tornado, is the terrain there, which is located next to it. Does in book say anything about that?

In it, the infrasound/karman vortex street event is only responsible for the hikers leaving the tent and descending the slope. The injuries at the ravine were not caused by infrasound. Instead, they were caused by a fall into the ravine. All this is explained in the book. While I don't agree with the infrasound theory I highly recommend 'Dead Mountain.'

This is exactly what I told him in detail in Ekaterinburg and in the subsequent (1.5 years before the book was published) large correspondence. And a lot was shown to him on the spot when on 06 March 2012 we went to the pass. I do not remember why, then the weather was not very good, I did not say where the relief features, which should be the most important, but in correspondence we discussed it lot.
You have correctly pointed out the main and main stages of the incident itself here.
A bit earlier I wrote almost the same thing, but some readers of the forum did not understand it.

June 13, 2020, 12:19:00 PM
Reply #62
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WAB


My interpretation of WAB's thorough and professional work on the DPI is this:
Why add layers of complexity to events that can be explained by natural phenomenon?
First, the hikers exited the tent from the effects of infrasound, which studies have found can cause uneasiness, nervousness, even panic.
Second, the head injuries on a couple of the hikers was caused by falling with sufficient force onto rocks as they walked/stumbled down the slope. Rib injuries to Dubinina and Zolotaryov and skull fracture of Thibeaux-Brignolle caused by striking rocks when they fell into the ravine.

Certainly, this is a straight-forward scenario and doesn't involve the intervention by others (KGB) or things such as UFOs, ball lightening, missile explosions and so forth.
Is it truly what happened? No theory or scenario, including WAB's or anyone else's, offers indisputable proof.

Thank you for your opinion, it is very correct and competent. I would especially highlight your last phrase:

"No theory or script, including the WAB or anyone else's, provides conclusive evidence."

Once again, thank you so much.
William S. Maugham said well about the evidence and its perception.: "Even in the Bible you can find praise for the devil." ©

June 13, 2020, 12:24:05 PM
Reply #63
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WAB


This statement of yours once again confirms that you are completely unaware of the conditions and invent fantastic fables.
They couldn't go back to the tent for other reasons:
1. They didn't know where they were,
2. They didn't know where the tent was,
3. They didn't know the distance, and they didn't know the direction to the tent very well.
4. They didn't have any guidance that could help them at that time.
5. The weather and conditions interfered with them: darkness and backwind.
Woow, that's really blow my mind  twitch7 I didn't consider this option but even from my own experience I know it is quite possible.
It was dark night(moon rise was at 3am), from last photos is clear that the weather wasn't good is very possible that after walking 40-50m from the tent they was not able to return to it.

You're all very correct. If I wasn't sure it was you who wrote it, I would consider it the quote (or paraphrase) from my earlier messages.

It will explain why they climbed the Cedar and remove the branches: trying to locate the tent when weather improved and moon rise.

No, they climbed to the cedar for another reason. You just can't see much from there, especially at night. They had terrible heat deficit and they needed fire. But there was no firewood anywhere closer, and they couldn't go any further, because it was deep snow and they needed skis that they didn't have then.

The very weak point of this theory is that all the footprints shows a straight walk down, if they will be lost for sure will be walking around for a bit and trying to locate the tent before giving up.

I already wrote about the tracks. There was no continuous chain of footprints. If there was snow with blizzard, they were inconspicuous for hikers. Besides, it's very difficult to go towards the wind and look for weak manifestations of footprints.
You can see from the photos that wind and snow were available. In the dark, the contrast of such detection is extremely low.

June 13, 2020, 12:37:51 PM
Reply #64
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WAB



I am sorry, but the whole problem between us is probably in linguistic misunderstanding. dunno1

Yeah, it's possible. But if you want to figure it out, I don't see a problem here. There is a method-- a method of sequential approximation.

to clarify my sentences I wrote before:
to go upright I didn't mean to go straight in one line. It means walking to my feet without tripping and falling to the ground.

It's good thing we found out. It's also very unlikely in this place under those conditions. Even in better conditions, in the daytime, when you can see everything and you know where you can't go. Even if you have boots on your feet, or special shoes. There is a slight slope everywhere and the snow surface is hard crust. The feet are constantly sliding, so you have to either keep your feet supported with ski sticks or walk in a small step, very carefully choosing the path. See how Shura walked in the afternoon in our 2014 experiment. . Note how he walked finely with his legs. I remind you that it was the afternoon and he knew very well where and how to go. And he knew where not go to it. In the conditions of that case, when there was a Dyatlov group, it was impossible walk like that (dark, stressful condition, many do not have shoes, valenki slide even more than foot only in one sock). It was impossible not fall in such conditions. A more stable position could be maintained only below the third stone ridge, when the snow started get deeper (10 ... 20 cm and more) and the slope became even softer. And it was in conditions when person could see something around him. If there was small dump ( small steeper section), the bangs are 99% more likely fall.

The contours of the bodies were not found in the snow, only the contours of the feet.


1. Falls was occurred mainly in rocky ridges, where there was no substrate nast (thin crust of ice over snow), which is required to form such traces.
2. Body pressure on loose snow in this case is low much (at least by an order of magnitude) less than when man steps to snow print of foot. Pressure is the main factor for the formation of traces.

What I think is impossible if I'm affected by infrasound and mentally disoriented. And certainly in a disoriented state I will not be able to build a fire or build a den - this requires a certain "cold-bloodedness and logical action".

I've written about this before, but I'll say it again, but this will be the last time.
The stages of human exposure to infrasound at resonance with dangerous frequencies of brain biorhythms:
1. Collect the necessary cumulative dose of exposure, constantly feeling strange sensations and hidden dangers.
2. Get "anchor" signal, which will be the final event in increasing brain excitation ("last drop").

Zina has a large abrasion on the lower back, but it could only have occurred during her journey back towards the tent.

That's a very interesting consideration?  grin1 I'm surprised that when you move up, it's better opportunity than when you move down. When you move down, gravity of the ground adds damage forces, when you move up, then gravity of the ground reduces damage forces. Where's your logic in here?
On the way from the cedar to the place where it was found, there are no places where it can be damaged, and from the tent down to the place where it was found, it can only be reduced, but still more than enough.

Yes, it's a very large area where the infrasound wave exists and that's why it wasn't the cause of this tragedy. They were no longer disoriented in the forest.

That's how it turns out. If you know what relaxation is and what helps, then this is where the answer is for you.

I did not mean saying that the infrasound would have to act on a very small discrete area, and the tent would be on directly inside. It is absolutely clear to me that infrasound has a long-range effect over long distances. And that is why I rule out the theory of infrasound as the cause of that misfortune.

I don't understand why it has operate at long distance and not at short distance. If there are no obstacles, it is like normal wave, fades in the proportions of the second degree. Only the attenuation coefficient for bass is lower than for higher frequencies.

And again, I miss the extensive scientific and clinical study on the effects of infrasound on human behavior and under the same conditions as had the Dyatlov´s. Without proper verification of the effect of infrasound on a larger number of people / subjects in the same conditions as tourists had, the whole theory is only speculation. (I work in research as a researcher, as part of my work I sometimes evaluate projects of a medical nature and I know how important and necessary clinical studies directly on people are).

No one can stop you from doing such research. On your own. It's the only thing you'll have find your own money for. And it's going take lot money. Besides, you'll need find enough qualified specialists that no university has yet prepared. Because no one will spend money on something that will have no commercial effect.
Although there is already lot of applied research, but it is scattered and many of it is not published in wide print. They are in different countries and at different firms. Even if they exist, they exist in different languages and have not been translated into other languages. And they haven't been put on the Internet. Because many firms and people don't have that need. I'm talking about what I know myself, but I'm sure there are many more in other places.

Finally, one note:
You wrote to hoosiergose: „I get the impression that you stubbornly do not want to understand something, but want to push your understanding at any cost, or unreasonably discredit what others offer“.
I hope you are not be offended, but I have the impression that it is you who discredit all the opinions from other contributors of this forum.

What do you call this term?
When a person operates with inaccurate (and therefore false) information and has been instructed to do so?
Or when he first talks about logic and immediately makes illogical conclusions? Has he been instructed to do so again?
I do not get reasonable arguments from those who try to discredit what I have researched in practice and have theoretical developments. And people want to seem knowledgeable, but in reality they do not even know the basics of what they are trying to talk about. I tell them exactly what I think about them. So it's up to you to decide how you can "discredit" the wrong opinion. It's either right or wrong, the other is out. So you have to be straight about it. It's only argued, which is what I do.

I really appreciate your knowledge in the field of physics, rocket engineering  good-posting, but you do not judge things from another point of view, e.g. medicine, psychology, etc.

Well, why not? If the questions are about injuries, I was engaged in biomechanics and we have studied all aspects of anatomy and pathology that we need well with the help and participation of leading specialists in medicine of our country. We have added physics and mathematics to this, which makes it possible to calculate injuries under the conditions given. I do not understand why it is bad? The result of our work is the development of safety and rescue equipment for aviation and spacecraft, and it is very difficult to find analogues for our developments. Moreover, there are very few competitors who can make a similar product (1...2...3). And here too, all our developments cannot be "found on the Internet".
I am not going speculate on how treat corona-virus or oncology. Although I already know lot about oncology.
As for psychology, I was specially engaged in these studies (in the same areas), before I started biomechanics. For example, we studied the processes in memory, get chance evaluate the "operator" fatigue. There, we needed to know lot of applied psychology. In addition, I made lot of observations in many travels. How person (different people) behaves in such conditions I know well in practice. Unlike many here who object to me and who only "lie on the sofa".
There are people here who have experience of different travels, but they ask competent and specific questions if there is a difference even in perception of what is being said. But these questions have a deep meaning, unlike what people here say who have an "opinion" and not knowledge.
Now you don't want change your mind about this?

June 13, 2020, 12:49:56 PM
Reply #65
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WAB



   
  • I can understand that infrasound could make them withdraw from the tent but not half dressed. Rustem wore one valenki but didn't even pick the other one up.

It doesn't say anything about anything, it could have been the last (with small interval of events) to whom it affected, and then there was what is called the "crowd effect".

   IS would not affect the whole group simultaneously.

Who told you that? Specify, say the time interval that separates "simultaneously" and not "simultaneously". Would few seconds suit you?

Some would succumb before others.

So they could not (even if they wanted to) squeeze into the hole at the same time. They interfered with each other, which is why "at the same time" is not suitable.

Those still in control would collect some footwear at the very least even if they elected to join the others fleeing because the tent was too ripped to remain.

What makes you think that someone and something should "control"? Arguments, please present. The question concerns the interval when they left the tent, not after that.

   Semyon and Nicolai appear to have been outside and the footsteps demonstrate they joined the main group a little further down the slope.

It's called «50-50». Could have been them, could have been others. The starting point of the trail was never recorded or published officially.

The contours of the hill would have made IS variable and they would have quickly reached a quieter place

I cannot comment on "making IS variables"(c) because I don't know what you mean by that. And I can't understand what's «fast» in your interpretation...
But the place where consciousness switching could have just begun, I know, is a little above Zina's place. But it takes time for the process of switching to a normal state, it doesn't happen, but a snap of your fingers like a magician. I estimate it at about half an hour or more. In that time, they've gone much deeper. Each on its own.

to reconsider and for SZ/NTB to return to fetch clothing. But that didn't happen. They had a flashlight.

In addition to the need perform action, you must be able to do it. But there are insurmountable problems.

  • IS didn't give three bodies marks of a similar pattern or signs of vomiting and bleeding head orifices, or Zina lying face down in her own blood.

And your religion probably doesn't allow you understand that they got injured later and for another reason?
For example, Zina fell in the third rocky ridge, broke her nose and got scratch on her side. There are more than enough opportunities there...

   
  • IS didn't cause strange photos across several cameras.

That's what you mentioned? I'll tell you in confidence: Jesus Christ wasn't crucified by IS either  lol1

   
  • IS didn't create curious snow effects, firn snow on the tent and surrounds and footsteps in snow as soft as a cow pat.

What are you talking about and where did you get this amazing information from? Would you decipher, please...

June 13, 2020, 12:58:05 PM
Reply #66
Offline

WAB


Regarding the trip to the cedar and the injuries at the ravine, I have a number of questions (as usual). 

1) How did they find their way to the cedar?   

They found him by accident. It was almost an accident. When the first two they found at the cedar stumbled into the impassable snow, they began move aside. There (after ~100 m - this is ~ 300 ft) they met the cedar and decided that it had wood for fire. Judging by the available documents and reconnaissance of the place, the rest (except for Alexander Kolevatov) did not approach the cedar. There are no signs of what it was. But there are many indirect signs that they were not there.

If there was very little to no moon, they probably could not even see their hand in front of their face.  I know  of what I speak.

Of course you're right for where you saw it. I can tell you right away that their ability see was very limited. There is small backlight there, even if there is no moon (and it should have appeared only about 4 hours AM) . The fact is that in northern latitudes there is always something like northern lights, only very weak. It works even through clouds. Therefore, they could see something very vaguely only in the form of individual dark spots on the background of snow, at distance of about 10 ... 15 m (this is ~ 300 ... 450 ft). We tested this under similar conditions. There's a note here that people have different eyesight. Shura saw further (but only little) he has better vision than me. This note refers to the fact that part of the Dyatlov group had glasses, so they had not the most perfect vision.

2) Why would Alexander lay down and die when he was supposed to have very few injuries and supposedly no serious ones?

You forget about two very strong factors: cold and fatigue. At temperatures around -20C (this is ~ -4F), the constant heat consumption is about 3 to 5 times greater than the heat that person can naturally produce. The rest needs to be complemented by physical work. But person can't do it all the time and for long time. In cold conditions he should sit down to rest for few minutes and muscles will not be able to restore their efficiency. In other words, he lives as long as he can move, but it is impossible to do it indefinitely. Injuries further limit the time of life, but we must understand that with such cooling, death does not come immediately, and is delayed by many tens of minutes. By the term death I mean decrease of rectal temperature below +28C (it is ~ +82,4F). At this stage man cannot move anymore and his consciousness is very difficult. He can't talk anymore.

3) How is it that they would think to take a flashlight with them but forget to put on warm clothes? 

They didn't take the flashlight, someone had it on their clothes or in their pocket. And they didn't forget to put it on, but there were conditions when they couldn't even think about it. It's called as the ASC.

 
4) How is it that the four in the ravine didn't have frost bite and the others did?   

Because they worked for the rest of their lives and didn't fall into conditions where they could get frostbite. Especially for those who were injured, after that, the body stops creating reaction getting frostbite. Because it happens with intensive blood circulation in the peripheral areas of the body, and injuries lead to redistribution of blood flows. Especially for those who died very quickly after the trauma. There's another consideration in this regard. The bodies of the last four were in state of decomposition of varying degrees.  Frostbite could be overlooked, or considered to be not very significant in the present trauma.

Didn't the rav4 help build it and if not why?

No. It is best assume that all subgroups (4 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1) acted independently of each other and did not intersect. The question can only be about Dyatlov - there is no sign that he was at the campfire, and there is no definite sign that he was not there. And Kolevatov went to the fire from the place where the bodies of four were found. Someone had bring the clothes that were at the fire and put them on den. Others couldn't do that because they had such injuries that they couldn't walk.
As soon as you think that "everybody got together and held hands and went to the fire with the songs and then back", then there are insurmountable questions and there are no facts confirm this. It is not worth repeating other people's statements, they sat down without their own logic and supporting facts.

June 13, 2020, 01:00:51 PM
Reply #67
Offline

WAB


Maybe that's all I can write today.

June 14, 2020, 12:50:27 AM
Reply #68
Offline

Nigel Evans



   
  • I can understand that infrasound could make them withdraw from the tent but not half dressed. Rustem wore one valenki but didn't even pick the other one up.

It doesn't say anything about anything, it could have been the last (with small interval of events) to whom it affected, and then there was what is called the "crowd effect".

   IS would not affect the whole group simultaneously.

Who told you that? Specify, say the time interval that separates "simultaneously" and not "simultaneously". Would few seconds suit you?

Some would succumb before others.

So they could not (even if they wanted to) squeeze into the hole at the same time. They interfered with each other, which is why "at the same time" is not suitable.

Those still in control would collect some footwear at the very least even if they elected to join the others fleeing because the tent was too ripped to remain.

What makes you think that someone and something should "control"? Arguments, please present. The question concerns the interval when they left the tent, not after that.

   Semyon and Nicolai appear to have been outside and the footsteps demonstrate they joined the main group a little further down the slope.

It's called «50-50». Could have been them, could have been others. The starting point of the trail was never recorded or published officially.

The contours of the hill would have made IS variable and they would have quickly reached a quieter place

I cannot comment on "making IS variables"(c) because I don't know what you mean by that. And I can't understand what's «fast» in your interpretation...
But the place where consciousness switching could have just begun, I know, is a little above Zina's place. But it takes time for the process of switching to a normal state, it doesn't happen, but a snap of your fingers like a magician. I estimate it at about half an hour or more. In that time, they've gone much deeper. Each on its own.

to reconsider and for SZ/NTB to return to fetch clothing. But that didn't happen. They had a flashlight.

In addition to the need perform action, you must be able to do it. But there are insurmountable problems.

  • IS didn't give three bodies marks of a similar pattern or signs of vomiting and bleeding head orifices, or Zina lying face down in her own blood.

And your religion probably doesn't allow you understand that they got injured later and for another reason?
For example, Zina fell in the third rocky ridge, broke her nose and got scratch on her side. There are more than enough opportunities there...

   
  • IS didn't cause strange photos across several cameras.

That's what you mentioned? I'll tell you in confidence: Jesus Christ wasn't crucified by IS either  lol1

   
  • IS didn't create curious snow effects, firn snow on the tent and surrounds and footsteps in snow as soft as a cow pat.

What are you talking about and where did you get this amazing information from? Would you decipher, please...
Greetings Sir!

Well maybe we have to agree to disagree, i'm firmly of the opinion that there are too many signs of injury for IS to be responsible. It could have been a contributing factor encouraging them to vacate the tent but something else was the main catalyst. They were intelligent, sensible and experienced, IS as a sole solution doesn't fit.

June 15, 2020, 12:06:03 PM
Reply #69
Offline

WAB


Dear RidgeWatcher !
Thank you for your very informative and objective post.
I ask you (if it possible) convey my gratitude to your father for his objective judgment and good memory of the history of missile technology. I know that in these fields of science and technology, everything develops almost simultaneously in leading countries. One country breaks out for while, and then there is period when there are many obstacles and another country breaks out. But it does not matter. Because science is developing and it's all moving towards the benefit of humanity. I am very glad that I can convey my gratitude to my colleague in rocket engineering.
I will now answer your questions.


I was amazed to hear you talk about the early online forum connected with  travel site, I think I may have known this site as "Ermak TraveL" correct me if I am wrong. I posted on this site a lot. It was my introduction to the Dyatlov Pass Incident, and mystery.

I am very interested in how and why this case (Dyatlov's group) is interesting abroad? But this is a rhetorical question.
I think that information appeared on Ermak TraveL site much later than they started to discuss it on TAU (Ural) forum. The company "Ermak TraveL" itself is a large transport company, which has its headquarters in Tyumen. Information about the Dyatlov Pass is located on their subsidiary website https://****.com/Europe/Russia/Cholat-%20Syachil/dyatlov_pass_incident_rus.htm  and has the motto "Ermak TraveL Guide". I have not found the date of this information from them, but I think it happened after 2013, when all the big information appeared on TV and in federal newspapers.

Your quote: "Then, in 2005 and (mainly) in 2006, there was a broad discussion of this topic on the Internet. Originally it was on the site of TAU (Ural TV Agency), the general producer of which was Anna Matveeva's mari Innokenty Sheremet. Everything that I now say at this forum, I began say back there. During this time there have been practically no changes in my main statements. The only thing that has increased is that I have made 5 winter and 2 summer (the very first and basic for this study) expeditions to the pass".

I have many questions but about your post which is very interesting and informative.

I spoke with my father about Russian Missiles and Rockets in 1959, he worked in Navigation and Guidance on missiles and rockets, particularly the gyroscope technology, which as you know is all done by lasers today. He said that Russian rocketry and missile guidance was very advanced at that time, as much as he heard about it. He mentioned what was probably the best missile system at that time being made by the Russians. He also said that the finances, work, time and precision parts it took to manufacture a missile or rocket was not inexpensive. He said neither the Russians or the Americans would just shoot them randomly over the Urals or New Mexico or the South Pacific.

Yes, he was very right say about that.  I will only add that our research and production were cheaper and faster because all this was concentrated in one place - the state program at state enterprises. The total amount of funding was much less than in the U.S., so when the "Moon Race" started, we didn't have enough economic resources, because we had to rebuild the country after the war at the same time (more than 60% of the country's resources and economy were lost there, and the country was the largest in the world in terms of territory). And it was necessary to develop industry, science, education and so on.  In addition, it must be said that the climatic conditions in our country are such that with the same production, we need much more money for the same production than in the more southern countries. For example, in China. We have more than half of the country in the permafrost zone and a very cold climate. But people live there everywhere, and they need to be supported technically and economically.
He has a very objective and accurate view of the period in the events of that time.

WAB,

1) In your opinion, do you think that a rocket or missile or some other projectile fell on Kholat Syakhl that night?

No, that's completely out of the question, for reasons I've written about here several times:
1. There's no sign of such action. If you consider all that was before 1960...1970.
2. The technical data and location (real, not fictional) of the launch sites clearly indicate that this is impossible. But you need to know a lot of details that do not take into account those who are making something up.
3. There are no conditions for what purpose and technology as it was done. In legal spheres it is called: there is no "cause-and-effect relationship".

2) Why have you gone to Dyatlov Pass so many times? Are you working on a present theory?

It wasn't so often. Everyone has a hobby, so leave your city for 7 ... 10 days (and in almost all these cases it coincided with the conferences in Ekaterinburg) is only as a rest and increase emotions. We have experience of many travels in such (and much more difficult) conditions. Since now it is very difficult to find time and money for more complex and long trips, so we "had fun" in this place. Very often I went for a short time to travel to the Kola Peninsula in winter in other years. There's nothing special about it.

3) What is your opinion on whether the Dyatlov Pass Incident will ever be solved?

I'd really like that to happen. But it doesn't depend on the “Golden Key” showing up. https://www.grimmstories.com/language.php?grimm=200&l=en&r=ru  and everything will open up, but it will happen during the time of scientific development and more thorough and professional research on this topic.
There have already been several requests to different archives, but everywhere they answered that there was no information there. That's when two groups of people appear:
One group believes that all of them are always deceived and developed conspiracy theories about general conspiracy and what is harming them personally.
This group doesn't know much and replaces its knowledge with "its opinion".
2. another category, believes that there is nothing special or criminal there, because there are no reasonable reasons or physical possibilities to kill Dyatlov's group intentionally or accidentally.
This group knows much more: it knows a lot about the terrain, the details of what happened, the conditions at that place in winter, etc.
The difference is that some people can't (and much more often don't) explain what happened naturally, while others don't want to "write a horror movie script" and understand that except naturally it couldn't happen. Nature in such places is a very dangerous environment and human capabilities are not infinite. For example, in the cold and in bad clothes a person can not live long. And there is no need for any rockets, evil Yotis and criminals, who do not know where and how they came from.

June 15, 2020, 11:53:55 PM
Reply #70
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
Fweeeew....   long thread to read, but it was worth it.  👍🏼

Regarding the departure of the tent and the tracks.  I have never been convinced the group went down the slope together or otherwise all at the same time.  Just because there are tracks leading in the same direction, that doesn’t give a timeline or intervals in which they were made in retrospect of one another.  🤷🏼‍♂️

If memory serves me correctly, WAB believes the rav4 had fallen into the ravine at a dif location where the fall distance is greater.... the exact discovery location of the rav4 was still heavily debated.  Presumably, the terrain would lend possible for a significant size snow bank to develop on one side of the ravine.  Said bank could have later covered them after settling or collapsing into the ravine. 

I believe many of the injuries can be explained or contributed to falls etc, but not all.  Burned legs, self biting off junks of your own hand.... Zina didn’t have a scratch around her waist, but something a lot more substantial.   All but the rav4 (decaying) had a combination of busted knuckles, fat lips, black eyes, bloody noses......  I mean they REALLY must have been stumbling around like walking was a completely new concept.  🤷🏼‍♂️

Im still not convinced they cut their way out of the tent. 
All theories are flawed.......    Get Behind Me Satan !!!

June 20, 2020, 06:43:50 AM
Reply #71
Offline

janeeyre2150


It has been over 60 years -
Too much time has passed.
It is interesting that the Soviet Goverment shut down the investigation before it was thoroughly completed.
Also interesting they also declared the Dyatlov pass area strictly off limits for at least 3 years. WHY? Apparently, for what ever reason  this event was being covered up and hushed up by Soviet authorities. I think it has KGB written all over it.
I bet Vladimir Putin has a pretty good idea what happened to those hikers - him being former KGB and all. No doubt Nikita Kruschev knew.

True. But then again i wonder if Ptuin would have any interest about the case at all since he would probably be around 7 yrs old when the Dyatlov incident happened

June 23, 2020, 03:16:31 PM
Reply #72
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
It has been over 60 years -
Too much time has passed.
It is interesting that the Soviet Goverment shut down the investigation before it was thoroughly completed.
Also interesting they also declared the Dyatlov pass area strictly off limits for at least 3 years. WHY? Apparently, for what ever reason  this event was being covered up and hushed up by Soviet authorities. I think it has KGB written all over it.
I bet Vladimir Putin has a pretty good idea what happened to those hikers - him being former KGB and all. No doubt Nikita Kruschev knew.

True. But then again i wonder if Ptuin would have any interest about the case at all since he would probably be around 7 yrs old when the Dyatlov incident happened

Vladimir Putin certainly knows whats going on today with all this renewed interest in the Dyaylov Mystery.  He also has access to all of the former USSR Top Secrets ETC ETC.
DB

July 01, 2020, 07:22:49 PM
Reply #73
Offline

firefox


Thanks a lot for your explanation WAB. good-posting   I do so love math and science.  Even with the information we have, I am sure that there are theories that we can (and maybe should) put to bed.  The human imagination can give us an infinite number of theories and I would hope that that would not be our goal. cry2  Just my opinion.

I agree with your opinion with great pleasure... thumb1
Take look at the article that I already gave you here. It says all about injuries and "with math..."  grin1
All of this has been investigated directly on site under different conditions.

The Google Drive Document shows "access denied."  Is there a way to open the file, for you...?  Thank you....

July 02, 2020, 08:21:14 AM
Reply #74
Offline

WAB


Thanks a lot for your explanation WAB. good-posting   I do so love math and science.  Even with the information we have, I am sure that there are theories that we can (and maybe should) put to bed.  The human imagination can give us an infinite number of theories and I would hope that that would not be our goal. cry2  Just my opinion.

I agree with your opinion with great pleasure... thumb1
Take look at the article that I already gave you here. It says all about injuries and "with math..."  grin1
All of this has been investigated directly on site under different conditions.

The Google Drive Document shows "access denied."  Is there a way to open the file, for you...?  Thank you....


I'm sorry, but it must have happened that I was clearing space on the Google disk and removing old partitions or moving them more compactly. Please submit a request to this address and I'll grant you access. However, I will ask you read or download this information immediately, or for while, because I may need space for other purposes unrelated to these discussions. Unfortunately, I have very little space for these purposes, and I have move the information around all the time.

July 02, 2020, 09:44:23 AM
Reply #75
Offline

firefox


Thank you, I have made the access request, and Google tells me it will have an answer in the future...

July 03, 2020, 01:21:23 PM
Reply #76
Offline

WAB


Thank you, I have made the access request, and Google tells me it will have an answer in the future...

I already saw your request this morning and gave you access.