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Author Topic: Get angry with me...  (Read 708 times)

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July 12, 2020, 11:16:29 PM
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NightLurker


Yeah, we all have our theories and it's no different than anybody else...

The TENT is where it all started, we agree on that?

NINE people. All dead, We agree on that?

Facts are facts, we agree on that?

Everybody was hanging out in that tent. There is talk that two were running around outside, but does that matter? All died. We agree on that?

What we can also agree on is that something happened at that tent. That is where everyone there went haywire, agreed?

Okay... So what ACTUALLY happened there?

Let's REMOVE the paranormal because that is NOT provable. We can disagree with that, but let's just PRETEND that the BIGFOOT, the YETI, The Loch Ness Monster Aliens or Elvis DID NOT go in there and do some damage, scare people who generally don't scare easily, and monsters who eat peoples tongues and suck out their eyeballs don't really exist. Agreed?

Something happened to these nine people, who are, granted, young... but have better sense than most of us do with hiking and skiing than we do. They have been trekking these areas for a good amount of time and know their stuff, Agreed?

They placed their tent on a grade that would NOT create a problem with an avalanche. At that grade, IF an avalanche were to happen they would have never heard it anyway. Why was the tent STILL there? Unbroken with BOTH poles STILL planted and straight up to the sky? They were not stupid, that grade would NEVER create an avalanche and everybody knows it.

When the tent was found, most of their clothes were removed to dry out from the sweat. They were safe and DINNER was on the floor for everyone to eat. When the investigators showed up, dinner was STILL there on the floor, along with their boots, socks, warm clothes, etc... so they had to leave quick, agreed?

They were in such a panic, they cut holes in the side of the tent, but obvious is obvious... THEY DID NOT RUN once outside of the tent. They did NOT run down the hill as some may propose. THEY WALKED.

That's right. THEY WALKED down to the valley... 1 mile in the snow, no boots, no warm clothes, many with just socks, some without socks. WHY???

What in the world would make them do that? Even though the tracks (1 month old) showed that it WAS NOT SINGLE FILE but they marched down side by side, and why???

How do we know they didn't run down there? because running v/s walking have different tracks. It's undeniable. Pics prove it.

Now you name a sasquatch that will force them to do that. You name an alien that would do that. They walked down there calmly.

Think about it. If they were scared they would have run like crazy!

I will propose a timeline... WITHOUT names... you can fill in the blanks, Okay?

Back up at the tent, they got beaten up pretty bad. So much in fact that many had injuries that not taken care of within 48 hours, many would indeed DIE.

Marched down the hill toward the valley, the attackers figured their job was done and the cold weather would do them in. BUT...

They all got together at the cedar tree and started a fire. The attackers doubled back to finish the job, but could not get there fast enough to stop them from splitting up.

The worst of the party, two men were left under the cedar tree. They traded clothes to allow TWO parties to go out and find help and stay warm. The two at the cedar tree with the fire will stay warm.

The attackers came back and took out the two at the cedar tree. Still alive, but beaten so bad, they will die. Same with the four at the den. They caught up with them and did the same. The last three, they were trying to get back to the tent for flashlights and warm clothes... and died along the way.

Each were doomed with their injuries but hypothermia set in before death.

The question is, who were the attackers? Why do this? Who ordered this, if anybody?

This isn't about wind. This isn't about aliens, sasquatch, nor weird sounds to mess up peoples brains nor magic mushrooms, alcohol nor even a silly fight over a cute girl.

Although you may disagree with some, part or ALL of the story, something happened and the Russians DO want this to go away.

Thanks for listening.

You are now required to post any other theories but I do ask that you keep them plain and simple. Tin-foil hat theories should keep to a bare minimum for I fear you may be made fun of.

Again, Thank you!








July 13, 2020, 12:02:39 AM
Reply #1
Offline

Teddy

Administrator
Get angry with me...
No reason. Majority of the people, at least that I consider with healthy brains, accept the facts that you state. This is what it looks like from the case files, photos and recollections. The interpretation may vary though.

I have published long ago this article which does not contradict what you are saying.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=96.0

Back up at the tent, they got beaten up pretty bad. So much in fact that many had injuries that not taken care of within 48 hours, many would indeed DIE.
This is a point I disagree with. Dubinina, Zolotaryov and Thibeaux-Brignolle have died 20, not more than 30 mins after their injuries were inflicted. They were not carried down, their trauma happened in the ravine (this is what I call the area where they were found although I know is not much of a ravine).

According to the coroner Vozrozhdenny (see Sheet 382): "Dubinina died 10-20 minutes after the trauma."
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 12:17:49 AM by Teddy »

July 13, 2020, 06:52:51 AM
Reply #2
Offline

MDGross


Hello NightLurker, I wouldn't discount Elvis. He seems to appear everywhere.
But, to expand on your theory, perhaps the KGB arrived that night by helicopter. That could explain the bright lights seen in the last photos of two cameras. Why? Who knows. Maybe one of the hikers was going to sell military secrets. However, hiking/cross-country skiing is so popular in the Soviet Union at this time and the nine young folks lived good, quiet and productive lives. Better not to shoot them and take unnecessary heat, let nature do the dirty work. The timing is perfect  – below zero, snowing, strong winds. Just make them march so unprepared down the slope and into the forest. Then rest in the tent or the helicopter until the sun comes up. Go check and find the nine hikers dead from hypothermia or from a fall onto rocks into the ravine.
I emphasize that this is only speculation on my part. I have no proof and never will. But the theory fascinates me.

July 13, 2020, 09:55:46 AM
Reply #3
Offline

Nigel Evans


"How do we know they didn't run down there?"Because it was night and the ground had hard sharp rocks hidden by cold slippery snow and ice?

How fast would you run?

July 13, 2020, 12:00:29 PM
Reply #4
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Bring attacked is a well established theory.

Sometimes tin foil hat theories are tomorrows science.

Regards

Star man
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 12:22:08 PM by Teddy »

July 13, 2020, 12:20:20 PM
Reply #5
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Problem is with any of the attack theories is the actual injuries that we know were found on the bodies during the Autopsies. And apart from the very serious and unusual injuries to bodies at the Ravine many of the bodies did not show signs of any serious beatings. We should expect to see a fair bit of damage on all of the bodies if such fighting took place.
DB

July 13, 2020, 03:10:12 PM
Reply #6
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Jean Daniel Reuss



........................

Certainly there was a massacre of a terrorist nature, that is to say, an act of war to counter Russia, which was at the same time communist, Soviet, imperialist and totalitarian.

See:
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=464.msg9152#msg9152
    Materials of 1959 ---> Maslennikov notebooks
May 22, 2020, 10:04:55 AM: Reply #4
Evgeniy Polikarpovich Maslennikov (1924-1978) makes a very unclear reference to an attack by armed men who could be citizens of a Caucasian country.


See:
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;u=325;area=showposts;start=150
Since March 12, 2018, Per Inge Oestmoen has sent 180 posts, almost all of which describe the actions of professional killers for which he does not specify the motives.
 

See :
https://dyatlovpass.com/theories?flp=1#fight
Eduard Tumanov, is pushing a theory that hikers took part in a fight, either between them (which was my hypothesis N°1, now abandoned) - or with outsiders (my hypothesis N°2).

See :
http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova
There is here a detailed reenactment of the massacre by Aleks Kandr, which supposes that a commander, in the Vizhay region, hired three professional mercenary killers - presumably known criminals - thus ex-zeks freed, from 1953, by the decisions of Nikita Krushchev.
   (But Aleks Kandr writes in Russian and I have great difficulty in translating and understanding him correctly.)


See :
   https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=408.msg9561#msg9561   
    Altercation on the pass --> Krivonischenko biting his hand
June 11, 2020, 02:53:29     :  Reply #4

Attackers = political enemies  = ex-zeks = free men = (NOT prisoners) =  terrorists = inhabitants of the Vizhay region (maybe settlement 41) = internal combatants in an ongoing patriotic war = unknown nationality (Chechens, Poles...).

In 1959 there remained in the vicinity of Vizhay a small proportion of ex-zeks or former political prisoners who had many good reasons to hate the Soviet regime and who were ready to continue their patriotic struggle.

It is difficult to know if these were: Chechens, Ingush, Crimean Tatars, Poles, Czechoslovakians, Hungarians, Romanians, Moldovans, Ukrainians, Koreans, Germans, Bulgarians, Estonians, Lithuanians, Latvians... or from other countries.


See the beginning of my hypothesis N°2 :
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.0
Posts since March 24, 2020, 04:07:07 PM    : since Reply #18
    Altercation on the pass  --->  Altercation on the pass


°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

There will be many points to examine and discuss in detail. Here are a few examples

They were in such a panic...

The hikers were not panicked, but they were suffocating and coughing because of the Improvised Suffocaging Device which in a few tens of seconds had made the atmosphere inside the tent completely unbreathable by probably releasing SO².

they cut holes in the side of the tent...

It was not the hikers who cut down the tent. It was the attackers who, after defeating the hikers with difficulty, rested inside the tent, which was then intact. Then, before leaving definitely, probably for Vizhay, the attackers negligently damaged the tent in a gesture of victory and contempt.


THEY WALKED down to the valley...

Kolmogorova and Slobodin never reached the cedar tree, they were already lying stunned on the slope and would soon freeze to death.


The attackers came back and took out the two at the cedar tree. Still alive, but beaten so bad, they will die. Same with the four at the den. They caught up with them and did the same.

Yes !


The last three, they were trying to get back to the tent ...

No ! Kolmogorova, Slobodin and Dyatlov were long since out of action, motionless and lying in the snow.
Moreover, before the moon rose, darkness was complete and it would have been almost impossible to find the tent.
Jean Daniel Reuss
Guidance for finding a rational scenario to explain a cold case
 • The solution takes in consideration all the physical clues.
 • Think about : Who ? Why ? How ?
 • The plausible explanations are consistent with the historical, military, political and psychological contexts.
 • The truth is often far from fantasy scenarios.

July 14, 2020, 01:25:32 AM
Reply #7
Offline

hoosiergose


I said it before & I still stand by it-
That the Occam’s Razor doctrine would lean towards murder. (calculated murder)
The next question is The Who? & The Why?

July 14, 2020, 12:39:18 PM
Reply #8
Offline

RidgeWatcher


I still think that Semyon was the mystery member here.

1) Surived a brutal war.

2) Age difference.

3) Added on at the last moment with initial consternation to some of the Dyatalov group.

4) Between all nine members, he and Dubinina, had the most trauma, possible the last to suffer any trauma.

5) A strong family history of valor and patriotism.

Sometimes I wonder if Semyon, who used an alias(?), was sent on this mission as a fact finder, trying to ascertain information regarding political combatants in the region. His history is murky, this is not a reflection on him personally, he was age 37 and trying to pass physical fitness milestone that would help him in the future. He was the perfect bait for governmental authorities to groom for data collection on the dessenters in the region.

What if Dubinia angered a few sociopath dissenters in Vishay, Settlement 42 or along the way. This is a clear possibility.

What if Semyon, or another member, actually got caught at doing something they shouldn't have been doing? What if Semyon was caught outside the "guest hotel" in Vishay, snooping around.

I really could have been any member but I always go back to the splitting off of the Blinov group heading west at Vishay and the Dyatlov group heading north to Settlement 42. The Blinov group didn't have a last minute stranger added on, a member much different than the others.

What do we really know about Semyon, other than the other members liked and respected him and that he and Dubinina died horrifically?

« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 12:43:48 PM by RidgeWatcher »

July 14, 2020, 03:25:57 PM
Reply #9
Offline

Frankie


Yeah, we all have our theories and it's no different than anybody else...

The TENT is where it all started, we agree on that?

NINE people. All dead, We agree on that?

Facts are facts, we agree on that?

Everybody was hanging out in that tent. There is talk that two were running around outside, but does that matter? All died. We agree on that?

What we can also agree on is that something happened at that tent. That is where everyone there went haywire, agreed?

Okay... So what ACTUALLY happened there?

Let's REMOVE the paranormal because that is NOT provable. We can disagree with that, but let's just PRETEND that the BIGFOOT, the YETI, The Loch Ness Monster Aliens or Elvis DID NOT go in there and do some damage, scare people who generally don't scare easily, and monsters who eat peoples tongues and suck out their eyeballs don't really exist. Agreed?

Something happened to these nine people, who are, granted, young... but have better sense than most of us do with hiking and skiing than we do. They have been trekking these areas for a good amount of time and know their stuff, Agreed?

They placed their tent on a grade that would NOT create a problem with an avalanche. At that grade, IF an avalanche were to happen they would have never heard it anyway. Why was the tent STILL there? Unbroken with BOTH poles STILL planted and straight up to the sky? They were not stupid, that grade would NEVER create an avalanche and everybody knows it.

When the tent was found, most of their clothes were removed to dry out from the sweat. They were safe and DINNER was on the floor for everyone to eat. When the investigators showed up, dinner was STILL there on the floor, along with their boots, socks, warm clothes, etc... so they had to leave quick, agreed?

They were in such a panic, they cut holes in the side of the tent, but obvious is obvious... THEY DID NOT RUN once outside of the tent. They did NOT run down the hill as some may propose. THEY WALKED.

That's right. THEY WALKED down to the valley... 1 mile in the snow, no boots, no warm clothes, many with just socks, some without socks. WHY???

What in the world would make them do that? Even though the tracks (1 month old) showed that it WAS NOT SINGLE FILE but they marched down side by side, and why???

How do we know they didn't run down there? because running v/s walking have different tracks. It's undeniable. Pics prove it.

Now you name a sasquatch that will force them to do that. You name an alien that would do that. They walked down there calmly.

Think about it. If they were scared they would have run like crazy!

I will propose a timeline... WITHOUT names... you can fill in the blanks, Okay?


Back up at the tent, they got beaten up pretty bad. So much in fact that many had injuries that not taken care of within 48 hours, many would indeed DIE.


This is where I begin to disagree. I really don’t think anyone who might have been injured would make it a mile (give or take) down the hill in the snow, in the frigid temperatures with the wind.



Marched down the hill toward the valley, the attackers figured their job was done and the cold weather would do them in. BUT...

They all got together at the cedar tree and started a fire. The attackers doubled back to finish the job, but could not get there fast enough to stop them from splitting up.


The worst of the party, two men were left under the cedar tree. They traded clothes to allow TWO parties to go out and find help and stay warm. The two at the cedar tree with the fire will stay warm.


And here - I don’t think anyone believed, even for a second, they could find help. In fact, I bet they knew their odds were better staying together.



The attackers came back and took out the two at the cedar tree. Still alive, but beaten so bad, they will die. Same with the four at the den. They caught up with them and did the same. The last three, they were trying to get back to the tent for flashlights and warm clothes... and died along the way.


Not many at the tree had injuries associated with being brutally attacked.



Each were doomed with their injuries but hypothermia set in before death.

The question is, who were the attackers? Why do this? Who ordered this, if anybody?

This isn't about wind. This isn't about aliens, sasquatch, nor weird sounds to mess up peoples brains nor magic mushrooms, alcohol nor even a silly fight over a cute girl.

Although you may disagree with some, part or ALL of the story, something happened and the Russians DO want this to go away.

Thanks for listening.

You are now required to post any other theories but I do ask that you keep them plain and simple. Tin-foil hat theories should keep to a bare minimum for I fear you may be made fun of.

Again, Thank you!

I vacillate between theories. At the moment, I and thinking through an attack theory. I started by thinking about an internal disagreement, but I just can’t come up with anything that makes sense with the known evidence. I dunno, maybe Mansi. I’m still pondering the possibilities. 


July 16, 2020, 04:55:19 AM
Reply #10
Online

sparrow


Hello Frankie.

In looking at the injuries that 3 or 4 of the hikers had, I think they did have an internal disagreement.  But I do not think it was the cause of their deaths.

July 16, 2020, 08:42:54 PM
Reply #11
Offline

Georgi


"How do we know they didn't run down there?"Because it was night and the ground had hard sharp rocks hidden by cold slippery snow and ice?

How fast would you run?
If I am forced to abandon my only shelter for 60+km while poorly dressed and without footwear or tools/weapons I would be running. If you don't have the time to pick up your boots, parka, pants, ax, knives etc... you don't have the time for walking unless you are ordered to walk at gun point.

July 16, 2020, 08:59:41 PM
Reply #12
Offline

Georgi


Problem is with any of the attack theories is the actual injuries that we know were found on the bodies during the Autopsies. And apart from the very serious and unusual injuries to bodies at the Ravine many of the bodies did not show signs of any serious beatings. We should expect to see a fair bit of damage on all of the bodies if such fighting took place.

There were four with injuries consistent with a fight. They fought initially and were subdued after an initial scuffle at the tent. The two men that were outside were overwhelmed immediately while the other 7 exited the tent, 4 of them started a fight upon exiting while the other 3 were still in the tent or were subdued quickly. Someone fires a round in the air and the fight ends because they realize there are more than they can handle and they have ranged weapons which would guarantee immediate death not only for themselves but for all of their companions. Most people, if given a choice between certain death now or almost certain death in a few hours will choose almost certain death in a few hours.

Once they were by the trees they were isolated in smaller groups  that were easier to control, the two men under the tree likely died second, Slobodim died first on the decend, Zina and Igor started heading back to the tent either rout of desperation, misplaced confidence the attackers were gone, guilt for getting the group in this circumstance or they though the rest were dead and they were the last once left. They died on the way back, so now the attacking force would have had to control 4 people instead of 9.

July 16, 2020, 09:15:02 PM
Reply #13
Offline

Georgi




This is where I begin to disagree. I really don’t think anyone who might have been injured would make it a mile (give or take) down the hill in the snow, in the frigid temperatures with the wind.
The once with signs of fighting were injured enough to indicate a fight but not injured enough to cause death except for maybe Slobodin. So they suffered injuries from a fistfight but didnt suffer the severe injuries when they were already in the forest.




Quote
And here - I don’t think anyone believed, even for a second, they could find help. In fact, I bet they knew their odds were better staying together.
You get disagreements, Dyatlov realizes after the two men under the tree die that they are doomed if they don't make it back to the tent and out of guilt or sense of duty decides to make the trip back, Zina doesn't want to leave to go alone so she goes with him. The other 4 members are convinced going back is a bad idea and conclude they need a shelter if they are to survive.



Quote
Not many at the tree had injuries associated with being brutally attacked.
They don't have to all have been brutally attacked, some were injured in the initial fight and suffered from injuries from falling out of a tree, burning themselves or dying from hypothermia while others were killed through force.

July 16, 2020, 09:21:50 PM
Reply #14
Offline

Georgi


Hello Frankie.

In looking at the injuries that 3 or 4 of the hikers had, I think they did have an internal disagreement.  But I do not think it was the cause of their deaths.
What kind of internal disagreement would cause them to leave their shelter and travel 1.5km at night without adequate clothing or tools? A disagreement like that would have a build up to it and it would be evident in the pictures of the days leading up to the last day and people would be writing in their journals about the problem. The once with evidence of a fist fight were Igor, Zina, Doroshenko, Slobodin so it could conceivably be a love triangle between Zina, Igor and Yuri D but that would leave 6 other people capable of pulling the combatants apart. I don't see any scenario where they get into a fight amongst themselves and end up at the treeline in various states of undress and shoeless, some maybe but not all of them.

July 17, 2020, 05:15:21 PM
Reply #15
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
"How do we know they didn't run down there?"Because it was night and the ground had hard sharp rocks hidden by cold slippery snow and ice?

How fast would you run?
If I am forced to abandon my only shelter for 60+km while poorly dressed and without footwear or tools/weapons I would be running. If you don't have the time to pick up your boots, parka, pants, ax, knives etc... you don't have the time for walking unless you are ordered to walk at gun point.

If you are really scared by something then you may just decide to get the hell out of the Tent and get away as fast as possible.
DB

July 17, 2020, 05:19:17 PM
Reply #16
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Problem is with any of the attack theories is the actual injuries that we know were found on the bodies during the Autopsies. And apart from the very serious and unusual injuries to bodies at the Ravine many of the bodies did not show signs of any serious beatings. We should expect to see a fair bit of damage on all of the bodies if such fighting took place.

There were four with injuries consistent with a fight. They fought initially and were subdued after an initial scuffle at the tent. The two men that were outside were overwhelmed immediately while the other 7 exited the tent, 4 of them started a fight upon exiting while the other 3 were still in the tent or were subdued quickly. Someone fires a round in the air and the fight ends because they realize there are more than they can handle and they have ranged weapons which would guarantee immediate death not only for themselves but for all of their companions. Most people, if given a choice between certain death now or almost certain death in a few hours will choose almost certain death in a few hours.

Once they were by the trees they were isolated in smaller groups  that were easier to control, the two men under the tree likely died second, Slobodim died first on the decend, Zina and Igor started heading back to the tent either rout of desperation, misplaced confidence the attackers were gone, guilt for getting the group in this circumstance or they though the rest were dead and they were the last once left. They died on the way back, so now the attacking force would have had to control 4 people instead of 9.

You say that there were 4 at the Tent who fought and that they had injuries consistent with a fight.  Which 4 are you referring to and which injuries ?
DB

July 19, 2020, 12:12:42 PM
Reply #17
Offline

eurocentric


My novice view is this sudden escape was due to a tornado, something which from the photographs seems far more likely than an avalanche. The peak doesn't have a steep enough slope for an avalanche.

Unlike the trail of destruction caused by a US tornado travelling through a homestead this one would near perfectly cover the crimescene with resettled snow it had consumed. A recent avalanche would have been more obvious to rescuers, and they would have immediately assumed the hikers were buried in the snow.

The hikers would hear the tornado, sense it from changes in air pressure, and possibly see the roof of the tent start to rise. It may even have started to tear at weaker points until they cut their way out. I think the blurry photo's on the smashed camera show attendant lightning effects taken by someone wishing to record the event but who cannot hold the camera steady enough due to the buffeting wind.

The tent does not take a direct hit, and is part submerged in a slope with all the heavier equipment sheltered in a trench, but some clothing becomes airborne and is deposited nearby, rather than it being discarded. Tree tops are said to be damaged. Someone or something is thrown into the ski pole and it snaps.

Outside the tent, and in the dark, they would be met with swirling snow and large hailstones, rotating at high speed sideways, which impacts them causing fractured skulls and broken ribs. Bruising would not fully develop until hours later, and by then they have frozen to death.

Injured, and having lost their bearings and sight of the tent, they'd make their way down the mountain and start a fire, hoping to make it through until dawn and then find the tent. This is where the pain of their injuries starts to rise, and blame & recriminations over the choice of camp site, resulting in a fight brandishing burning logs, causing burns to hands and the group splitting up. They all die from hypothermia/injuries.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 02:32:38 PM by eurocentric »