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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Decision to leave the tent  (Read 3729 times)

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January 20, 2021, 04:10:37 PM
Reply #60
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Ok if two members of the group failed to return from wherever, collecting firewood, the loo, etc., going out to search for them makes sense. But for the whole group to do this. Two or three people would be enough, don't you think? Perhaps two groups of two each?

That still leaves 3 people in the tent who could continue preparing food, or assembling the stove, de-icing boots and so on.So I don't think this satisfactorily explains the whole group leaving the tent. Unless of course they didn't, and in fact there were 2 or 3 "waves".




What about the flashlight with 10cm ofsnow underneath and none on top.  This was sitting on the side of tent?  How would you explain cutting the tent in a terrified panic and dropping the flashlight onto 10cm of snow?  How did the snow get underneath the flashlight?

Regards

Star man
I don't think this can be explained in any way. Finding something with no snow on top in an area where significant snowfall has occurred and covers other things (except ones that protrude), has no explanation. Except being put there after the snowfall. Or perhaps falling there, but from where? Was the flashlight hung on a ski pole but fell down weeks later due to wind? I don't think there's another explanation apart from someone from the search party picking it up then placing it on top of the tent and the next person to arrive at the tent finding this strange.

Sounds like you are suspicious about a number of things around the tent too?  Its not just the odd thing out of place.  There are many things out of place, that require a level of complexity to explain, when the simpler explanation is the scene has been fabricated, somewhere away from where the actual dpi took place.   Also, the lack of detailed analysis of things like the foot prints.  I dont know if you are a forensic expert but your thoughts on the age of the prints sounds reasonable and yet there is no such discussion in the case files?

At the cedar, how did Yuri K die from hypothermia, while the fire was still hot enough to burn his leg and charr his toe?  Or did he burn his leg to a crisp while still conscious? 

Regards

Star man

January 20, 2021, 05:16:00 PM
Reply #61
Offline

eurocentric


The way their boots were laid out was described as disorderly. Not to mention there being pieces of food (rusks, loin) over the blankets. So I don't think it can be called tidy. And I've also read a description saying it looked like they might have tried to barricade the entrance because there were a multitude of buckets piled up there.

In his testimony, Brusnitsyn describes the tent as being in "disarray". And then there was a ski pole in the tent cut into several pieces.



Now that I've read some testimonies again, I see that also remains of porridge were found in a cup. While I myself enjoy eating porridge any time, it perhaps hints at them being in the tent in the morning. And also a pin was described holding a hole in the tent together.

I don't even know if we can definitively conclude the tent was cut from the "inside". While the forensic expert notes there are scratches visible next to the ends of the cuts on one side, which was the inside in their setup of the tent, is it possible that they set up the tent inside out? Is the fabric's inner and outer surface different? For example was there water-proof layer on the outside?

Boots piled on top of each other. Certainly disorderly. Without the Tent we cannot get it re-examined. We are told that the Tent was got rid of because it was damaged whilst in storage  !  ?

Other witness statements suggested the boots were all down one side, and two pairs found in the middle. Seems quite orderly to me.

Chernyshev's statement included "On examination, the impression was that the hikers left the tent orderly."

January 20, 2021, 05:27:58 PM
Reply #62
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The way their boots were laid out was described as disorderly. Not to mention there being pieces of food (rusks, loin) over the blankets. So I don't think it can be called tidy. And I've also read a description saying it looked like they might have tried to barricade the entrance because there were a multitude of buckets piled up there.

In his testimony, Brusnitsyn describes the tent as being in "disarray". And then there was a ski pole in the tent cut into several pieces.

I think that you will find that the Footwear was not left in an orderly fashion.

Now that I've read some testimonies again, I see that also remains of porridge were found in a cup. While I myself enjoy eating porridge any time, it perhaps hints at them being in the tent in the morning. And also a pin was described holding a hole in the tent together.

I don't even know if we can definitively conclude the tent was cut from the "inside". While the forensic expert notes there are scratches visible next to the ends of the cuts on one side, which was the inside in their setup of the tent, is it possible that they set up the tent inside out? Is the fabric's inner and outer surface different? For example was there water-proof layer on the outside?

Boots piled on top of each other. Certainly disorderly. Without the Tent we cannot get it re-examined. We are told that the Tent was got rid of because it was damaged whilst in storage  !  ?

Other witness statements suggested the boots were all down one side, and two pairs found in the middle. Seems quite orderly to me.

Chernyshev's statement included "On examination, the impression was that the hikers left the tent orderly."
DB

January 20, 2021, 06:00:37 PM
Reply #63

DAXXY

Guest
Ok if two members of the group failed to return from wherever, collecting firewood, the loo, etc., going out to search for them makes sense. But for the whole group to do this. Two or three people would be enough, don't you think? Perhaps two groups of two each?

That still leaves 3 people in the tent who could continue preparing food, or assembling the stove, de-icing boots and so on.So I don't think this satisfactorily explains the whole group leaving the tent. Unless of course they didn't, and in fact there were 2 or 3 "waves".




They couldn't settle and light the stove without the fire wood the 2 Yuris went to collect they had to be all in the tent to light the stove.  They wouldn't do chores when the leader calls a search.  They would all take part probably in a line search first, all spread out at intervals in the direction the 2 Yuris went.  They knew they went to the trees, they could see their tracks, They put the furthest torch switched on to show the route back. the search eventually led them to the 2 Yuris at the cedar tree.

January 20, 2021, 06:06:50 PM
Reply #64

DAXXY

Guest
They never abandoned the tent.  The two flashlights with one switched on tie them to the tent.  They intended to return to the tent.  The flashlights were to help show the route back to the tent.

January 20, 2021, 06:12:57 PM
Reply #65

DAXXY

Guest
Question ..from Star Man
At the cedar, how did Yuri K die from hypothermia, while the fire was still hot enough to burn his leg and charr his toe?  Or did he burn his leg to a crisp while still conscious ?


Answer.........There are classic signs of late stage hypothermia affecting the 2 Yuri's at the cedar tree.  One is the cutting off and discarding of their own clothing (Paradoxical Undressing) Another is the evidence of Pulmonary Edema (Grey Foam) on the face and mouth of Yuri Doroshenko, another sign is the burns and the bitten right hand on Yuri Krivonischenko's body due to him experiencing greatly reduced sensation.

It's also a bad thing to expose a hypothermia victim to direct heat.  It draws the blood from the inner vital organs that need it back out to the skin. They can die quicker like that. They have to be warmed slowly away from direct heat.

January 21, 2021, 03:52:46 AM
Reply #66
Offline

GKM


How to account for the light covering of snow on the flashlight while the tent was all but snowed under? Even if they collapsed the tent themselves would there not be more snow on the flashlight after 3 weeks? I have yet to hear one satisfying explanation for the flashlight or an explanation that doesn't fall apart under a barrage of questions.

January 21, 2021, 05:42:31 AM
Reply #67
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Manti


Ok if two members of the group failed to return from wherever, collecting firewood, the loo, etc., going out to search for them makes sense. But for the whole group to do this. Two or three people would be enough, don't you think? Perhaps two groups of two each?

That still leaves 3 people in the tent who could continue preparing food, or assembling the stove, de-icing boots and so on.So I don't think this satisfactorily explains the whole group leaving the tent. Unless of course they didn't, and in fact there were 2 or 3 "waves".




What about the flashlight with 10cm ofsnow underneath and none on top.  This was sitting on the side of tent?  How would you explain cutting the tent in a terrified panic and dropping the flashlight onto 10cm of snow?  How did the snow get underneath the flashlight?

Regards

Star man
I don't think this can be explained in any way. Finding something with no snow on top in an area where significant snowfall has occurred and covers other things (except ones that protrude), has no explanation. Except being put there after the snowfall. Or perhaps falling there, but from where? Was the flashlight hung on a ski pole but fell down weeks later due to wind? I don't think there's another explanation apart from someone from the search party picking it up then placing it on top of the tent and the next person to arrive at the tent finding this strange.

Sounds like you are suspicious about a number of things around the tent too?  Its not just the odd thing out of place.  There are many things out of place, that require a level of complexity to explain, when the simpler explanation is the scene has been fabricated, somewhere away from where the actual dpi took place.   Also, the lack of detailed analysis of things like the foot prints.  I dont know if you are a forensic expert but your thoughts on the age of the prints sounds reasonable and yet there is no such discussion in the case files?

At the cedar, how did Yuri K die from hypothermia, while the fire was still hot enough to burn his leg and charr his toe?  Or did he burn his leg to a crisp while still conscious? 

Regards

Star man
Yes of course, many things seem suspicious.
But the problem with the fabricated scene is that it takes a lot of effort, and if someone put in that effort, they could have fabricated it much better. So nothing looks suspicious. For example set up the tent on a steeper slope, put them in there and trigger an avalanche above.Or bury them all in very deep snow so they aren't found until the summer. If I want to be really creative, trigger that avalanche above the lake near Otorten so they end up underwater. Then all injuries could be easily attributed to avalanche, and even other damage like a broken ski pole.

The fire is problematic for the same reason. If it's a fabricated scene, why make a fire, and a den? This indicates the group were alive for a while and makes everything look a lot more suspicious i.e. there is a need to explain why they left the tent. So it looks like less of a natural disaster's aftermath.

But regarding Yuri K, unfortunately it's  possible to freeze to death next to even a large fire, and this one didn't seem very large, because if there is wind then on the windward side there isn't much of a warming effect, and on the other side the wind blows the flames in your face, or on your leg I guess in case of a small fire. And also I think it's somewhat possible he burned himself while still alive because he had no sensation in his extremities due to the cold... although there is the problem that in that case, he also wouldn't be able to walk. But maybe that checks out.. during the last stages of hypothermia he crawled close to the fire in a last ditch effort to warm himself

« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 05:56:20 AM by Manti »

January 21, 2021, 07:21:24 AM
Reply #68
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Ok if two members of the group failed to return from wherever, collecting firewood, the loo, etc., going out to search for them makes sense. But for the whole group to do this. Two or three people would be enough, don't you think? Perhaps two groups of two each?

That still leaves 3 people in the tent who could continue preparing food, or assembling the stove, de-icing boots and so on.So I don't think this satisfactorily explains the whole group leaving the tent. Unless of course they didn't, and in fact there were 2 or 3 "waves".




What about the flashlight with 10cm ofsnow underneath and none on top.  This was sitting on the side of tent?  How would you explain cutting the tent in a terrified panic and dropping the flashlight onto 10cm of snow?  How did the snow get underneath the flashlight?

Regards

Star man
I don't think this can be explained in any way. Finding something with no snow on top in an area where significant snowfall has occurred and covers other things (except ones that protrude), has no explanation. Except being put there after the snowfall. Or perhaps falling there, but from where? Was the flashlight hung on a ski pole but fell down weeks later due to wind? I don't think there's another explanation apart from someone from the search party picking it up then placing it on top of the tent and the next person to arrive at the tent finding this strange.

Sounds like you are suspicious about a number of things around the tent too?  Its not just the odd thing out of place.  There are many things out of place, that require a level of complexity to explain, when the simpler explanation is the scene has been fabricated, somewhere away from where the actual dpi took place.   Also, the lack of detailed analysis of things like the foot prints.  I dont know if you are a forensic expert but your thoughts on the age of the prints sounds reasonable and yet there is no such discussion in the case files?

At the cedar, how did Yuri K die from hypothermia, while the fire was still hot enough to burn his leg and charr his toe?  Or did he burn his leg to a crisp while still conscious? 

Regards

Star man
Yes of course, many things seem suspicious.
But the problem with the fabricated scene is that it takes a lot of effort, and if someone put in that effort, they could have fabricated it much better. So nothing looks suspicious. For example set up the tent on a steeper slope, put them in there and trigger an avalanche above.Or bury them all in very deep snow so they aren't found until the summer. If I want to be really creative, trigger that avalanche above the lake near Otorten so they end up underwater. Then all injuries could be easily attributed to avalanche, and even other damage like a broken ski pole.

The fire is problematic for the same reason. If it's a fabricated scene, why make a fire, and a den? This indicates the group were alive for a while and makes everything look a lot more suspicious i.e. there is a need to explain why they left the tent. So it looks like less of a natural disaster's aftermath.

But regarding Yuri K, unfortunately it's  possible to freeze to death next to even a large fire, and this one didn't seem very large, because if there is wind then on the windward side there isn't much of a warming effect, and on the other side the wind blows the flames in your face, or on your leg I guess in case of a small fire. And also I think it's somewhat possible he burned himself while still alive because he had no sensation in his extremities due to the cold... although there is the problem that in that case, he also wouldn't be able to walk. But maybe that checks out.. during the last stages of hypothermia he crawled close to the fire in a last ditch effort to warm himself

What about the flashlight?

Regards

Star man

January 21, 2021, 07:57:20 AM
Reply #69
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Question ..from Star Man
At the cedar, how did Yuri K die from hypothermia, while the fire was still hot enough to burn his leg and charr his toe?  Or did he burn his leg to a crisp while still conscious ?


Answer.........There are classic signs of late stage hypothermia affecting the 2 Yuri's at the cedar tree.  One is the cutting off and discarding of their own clothing (Paradoxical Undressing) Another is the evidence of Pulmonary Edema (Grey Foam) on the face and mouth of Yuri Doroshenko, another sign is the burns and the bitten right hand on Yuri Krivonischenko's body due to him experiencing greatly reduced sensation.

It's also a bad thing to expose a hypothermia victim to direct heat.  It draws the blood from the inner vital organs that need it back out to the skin. They can die quicker like that. They have to be warmed slowly away from direct heat.
The clothes were removed by their friends.  If you believe the scene.  But I do they think they died of hypothermia.  How would you explain Yuri D burned hair?

Regards

Star man

January 21, 2021, 08:21:34 AM
Reply #70

DAXXY

Guest
Question ..from Star Man
At the cedar, how did Yuri K die from hypothermia, while the fire was still hot enough to burn his leg and charr his toe?  Or did he burn his leg to a crisp while still conscious ?


Answer.........There are classic signs of late stage hypothermia affecting the 2 Yuri's at the cedar tree.  One is the cutting off and discarding of their own clothing (Paradoxical Undressing) Another is the evidence of Pulmonary Edema (Grey Foam) on the face and mouth of Yuri Doroshenko, another sign is the burns and the bitten right hand on Yuri Krivonischenko's body due to him experiencing greatly reduced sensation.

It's also a bad thing to expose a hypothermia victim to direct heat.  It draws the blood from the inner vital organs that need it back out to the skin. They can die quicker like that. They have to be warmed slowly away from direct heat.
The clothes were removed by their friends.  If you believe the scene.  But I do they think they died of hypothermia.  How would you explain Yuri D burned hair?

Regards

Star man

Getting too close to flames without feeling the sensation of heat due to hypothermia.  Also putting head down close to blow on fire to keep it going then it flares and burns hair.  very easy to do. 

January 21, 2021, 08:39:26 AM
Reply #71

DAXXY

Guest
How to account for the light covering of snow on the flashlight while the tent was all but snowed under? Even if they collapsed the tent themselves would there not be more snow on the flashlight after 3 weeks? I have yet to hear one satisfying explanation for the flashlight or an explanation that doesn't fall apart under a barrage of questions.


Depends on the model of flashlight and the material it's made from.  You're suggesting that the flashlight should act as some sort of base for a tower of snow.  Why ? some materials don't allow snow to accumulate on them for very long.  Some materials absorb heat quicker from sunlight.  Also what shape was it ?  also wind would blow away any snow that did settle. There may well have been a few millimetres of snow on the flashlight but the searcher finding it picked it up and it fell off.  There isn't a photo (yet again).  The searcher just queried why there was was a pile of snow under the flashlight and not on top. .  It's obvious.  They put snow on the tent to weigh it down and stop the wind getting under it while they went off to search for the 2 Yuris.  They put a flashlight switched off on a pile of snow for the first person back to switch on. A pile of compressed snow would last much longer in wind than a few centimetres of settled snow that landed on the flashlight.  Any looser settled snow on the flashlight would have blown away.
I'm surprised the investigators didn't get a statement from other mountain skiers who would have read the scene using their experience.

January 21, 2021, 08:46:32 AM
Reply #72

DAXXY

Guest
It could be a simple as the 2 yuris go off for firewood while the others put the tent up and get ready for the night.  Then a blizzard hits.  A white out.  The two yuris are separated from the group. Nobody can do anything until the blizzard passes. Once it passes the group go to search for the two Yuris and find them at the Cedar but it's too late.

January 21, 2021, 12:51:22 PM
Reply #73
Offline

Monty


Daxxy (rep72)
Your basis for a theory would be fine but why do it barefoot? No, not bigfoot.

January 21, 2021, 02:11:12 PM
Reply #74

DAXXY

Guest
Daxxy (rep72)
Your basis for a theory would be fine but why do it barefoot? No, not bigfoot.

They were called out of the tent by the leader who was concerned at the 2 missing yuris.  They gather and Dyatlov gives his coat to one to stand on while he instructs them in what search method to use.  While he is doing this Semyon Zolotaryov is collapsing the tent and putting snow on it and the flashlight.  They are in layers of wool socks which keep them warm even if they are wet. they can't get back in to the collapsed tent to get the other boots. It would mean delay.  They don't intend to be long.  The blizzard has passed or eased off so they set off to find the 2 Yuris as they are.  They wouldn't wear ski boots they are stiff and slippery.  The only issue was if they stood still too long the cold would get in to their feet.  If they kept moving they were fine.

January 21, 2021, 02:57:41 PM
Reply #75
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
They never abandoned the tent.  The two flashlights with one switched on tie them to the tent.  They intended to return to the tent.  The flashlights were to help show the route back to the tent.

The distance from the Tent to the Forest was about a mile. It may have been snowing. So you really think that they left the Tent without proper clothing and intended to travel a mile and back and hope to be able to see the Flashlights. Does that make sense. I dont think it does.
DB

January 21, 2021, 03:10:12 PM
Reply #76
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Question ..from Star Man
At the cedar, how did Yuri K die from hypothermia, while the fire was still hot enough to burn his leg and charr his toe?  Or did he burn his leg to a crisp while still conscious ?


Answer.........There are classic signs of late stage hypothermia affecting the 2 Yuri's at the cedar tree.  One is the cutting off and discarding of their own clothing (Paradoxical Undressing) Another is the evidence of Pulmonary Edema (Grey Foam) on the face and mouth of Yuri Doroshenko, another sign is the burns and the bitten right hand on Yuri Krivonischenko's body due to him experiencing greatly reduced sensation.

It's also a bad thing to expose a hypothermia victim to direct heat.  It draws the blood from the inner vital organs that need it back out to the skin. They can die quicker like that. They have to be warmed slowly away from direct heat.

The Autopsies claim that the deaths of Doroshenko and Krivonishenko were due to freezing, in other words, Hypothermia. There were external injuries but they were unlikely to have killed them.
DB

January 21, 2021, 04:54:46 PM
Reply #77
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

I'm surprised the investigators didn't get a statement from other mountain skiers who would have read the scene using their experience.
[/quote]

We dont know exactly what the original Investigation entailed. But the indications are that the Authorities wanted the Investigators to keep it short and simple and wanted the Case closed ASAP.
DB

January 21, 2021, 04:57:02 PM
Reply #78
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
It could be a simple as the 2 yuris go off for firewood while the others put the tent up and get ready for the night.  Then a blizzard hits.  A white out.  The two yuris are separated from the group. Nobody can do anything until the blizzard passes. Once it passes the group go to search for the two Yuris and find them at the Cedar but it's too late.

So if that was the case then the Group that went down to the Forest a mile away would have dressed properly  ! ?
DB

January 21, 2021, 04:59:44 PM
Reply #79
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Daxxy (rep72)
Your basis for a theory would be fine but why do it barefoot? No, not bigfoot.

They were called out of the tent by the leader who was concerned at the 2 missing yuris.  They gather and Dyatlov gives his coat to one to stand on while he instructs them in what search method to use.  While he is doing this Semyon Zolotaryov is collapsing the tent and putting snow on it and the flashlight.  They are in layers of wool socks which keep them warm even if they are wet. they can't get back in to the collapsed tent to get the other boots. It would mean delay.  They don't intend to be long.  The blizzard has passed or eased off so they set off to find the 2 Yuris as they are.  They wouldn't wear ski boots they are stiff and slippery.  The only issue was if they stood still too long the cold would get in to their feet.  If they kept moving they were fine.

This is really not likely. They would have had time to dress properly. They didnt have time to dress properly because something happened that terrified them and they left in a hurry.
DB

January 21, 2021, 06:16:46 PM
Reply #80

DAXXY

Guest
It could be a simple as the 2 yuris go off for firewood while the others put the tent up and get ready for the night.  Then a blizzard hits.  A white out.  The two yuris are separated from the group. Nobody can do anything until the blizzard passes. Once it passes the group go to search for the two Yuris and find them at the Cedar but it's too late.

So if that was the case then the Group that went down to the Forest a mile away would have dressed properly  ! ?

They would have dressed for the conditions as they left the tent to get the firewood.

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=620.msg8896#msg8896

plus the clothing in their den

black ski trousers;
A thick brown woolen sweater;
A white woolen jumper,
and A pair of brown trousers

January 21, 2021, 06:32:16 PM
Reply #81

DAXXY

Guest
They never abandoned the tent.  The two flashlights with one switched on tie them to the tent.  They intended to return to the tent.  The flashlights were to help show the route back to the tent.

The distance from the Tent to the Forest was about a mile. It may have been snowing. So you really think that they left the Tent without proper clothing and intended to travel a mile and back and hope to be able to see the Flashlights. Does that make sense. I dont think it does.

Yes..say a blizzard passed.  two of their close friends have not returned.  They can't light the stove until everyone is in the tent and settled and they are worried about their missing friends.  They are compelled to do something.  So a quick search is organised.  They don't intend being long. Probably expect to meet the 2 Yuris coming back up the slope.  They leave one flashlight off at the tent and go out and leave another some distance away switched on either for the 2 Yuris to use as a homing beacon or for themselves.  and eventually they found them at the Cedar.

January 21, 2021, 06:58:50 PM
Reply #82
Offline

marieuk


I admire how you're trying to make sense of it all, but I don't think they would have left without footwear and coats etc. if they had a choice.  Why would they leave a turned off flashlight on top of the tent - why not just leave it in the tent?  I'm more inclined to agree with Starman that the tent was never pitched on the slope. 

January 21, 2021, 08:57:57 PM
Reply #83

DAXXY

Guest
I admire how you're trying to make sense of it all, but I don't think they would have left without footwear and coats etc. if they had a choice.  Why would they leave a turned off flashlight on top of the tent - why not just leave it in the tent?  I'm more inclined to agree with Starman that the tent was never pitched on the slope.

They were dressed adequately for a search down to the trees. Their main danger was getting wet from sweat or rain.  Dry cold was their normal environment.  They new the difference and the danger.  They all had layers of clothing both cotton and wool.  The flashlight was off to save it's battery. The furthest one from the tent was on.  The first person back would then put the tent light on.  The flashlights were placed to show a route back up to the tent.  It was on top of the tent because they had to put snow on the tent to weigh it down in case the wind got under it and it acted like a boat sail.  I suspect that Dyatlov as leader was following a set plan that existed in their training for a missing hiker.  If it was possible to find their training manual it might be in that and explain a lot.

January 22, 2021, 12:58:39 PM
Reply #84
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
It could be a simple as the 2 yuris go off for firewood while the others put the tent up and get ready for the night.  Then a blizzard hits.  A white out.  The two yuris are separated from the group. Nobody can do anything until the blizzard passes. Once it passes the group go to search for the two Yuris and find them at the Cedar but it's too late.

So if that was the case then the Group that went down to the Forest a mile away would have dressed properly  ! ?

They would have dressed for the conditions as they left the tent to get the firewood.

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=620.msg8896#msg8896

plus the clothing in their den

black ski trousers;
A thick brown woolen sweater;
A white woolen jumper,
and A pair of brown trousers

The conditions according to all indications were around minus 20 degrees centigrade. Would you walk a mile not dressed properly  ! ?
DB

January 22, 2021, 01:05:20 PM
Reply #85
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
They never abandoned the tent.  The two flashlights with one switched on tie them to the tent.  They intended to return to the tent.  The flashlights were to help show the route back to the tent.

The distance from the Tent to the Forest was about a mile. It may have been snowing. So you really think that they left the Tent without proper clothing and intended to travel a mile and back and hope to be able to see the Flashlights. Does that make sense. I dont think it does.

Yes..say a blizzard passed.  two of their close friends have not returned.  They can't light the stove until everyone is in the tent and settled and they are worried about their missing friends.  They are compelled to do something.  So a quick search is organised.  They don't intend being long. Probably expect to meet the 2 Yuris coming back up the slope.  They leave one flashlight off at the tent and go out and leave another some distance away switched on either for the 2 Yuris to use as a homing beacon or for themselves.  and eventually they found them at the Cedar.

So according to that they had plenty of time to get dressed properly before going down the Mountainside. The point is that the outside temperature is probably around minus 20 degrees centigade. If you are considering walking a long way in those very low temperatures then you would dress properly.
DB

January 22, 2021, 01:07:28 PM
Reply #86
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I admire how you're trying to make sense of it all, but I don't think they would have left without footwear and coats etc. if they had a choice.  Why would they leave a turned off flashlight on top of the tent - why not just leave it in the tent?  I'm more inclined to agree with Starman that the tent was never pitched on the slope.

They were dressed adequately for a search down to the trees. Their main danger was getting wet from sweat or rain.  Dry cold was their normal environment.  They new the difference and the danger.  They all had layers of clothing both cotton and wool.  The flashlight was off to save it's battery. The furthest one from the tent was on.  The first person back would then put the tent light on.  The flashlights were placed to show a route back up to the tent.  It was on top of the tent because they had to put snow on the tent to weigh it down in case the wind got under it and it acted like a boat sail.  I suspect that Dyatlov as leader was following a set plan that existed in their training for a missing hiker.  If it was possible to find their training manual it might be in that and explain a lot.

They were not adequately dressed for a walk of about a mile with temperature around minus 20 degrees centigrade.
DB

January 22, 2021, 03:01:27 PM
Reply #87
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I admire how you're trying to make sense of it all, but I don't think they would have left without footwear and coats etc. if they had a choice.  Why would they leave a turned off flashlight on top of the tent - why not just leave it in the tent?  I'm more inclined to agree with Starman that the tent was never pitched on the slope.

They were dressed adequately for a search down to the trees. Their main danger was getting wet from sweat or rain.  Dry cold was their normal environment.  They new the difference and the danger.  They all had layers of clothing both cotton and wool.  The flashlight was off to save it's battery. The furthest one from the tent was on.  The first person back would then put the tent light on.  The flashlights were placed to show a route back up to the tent.  It was on top of the tent because they had to put snow on the tent to weigh it down in case the wind got under it and it acted like a boat sail.  I suspect that Dyatlov as leader was following a set plan that existed in their training for a missing hiker.  If it was possible to find their training manual it might be in that and explain a lot.

While I agree with some of this, I find it odd that you think the better explanation is that there was some sort of search party, perhaps for the two Yuris, which would mean that they would certainly keep at least two (probably more) people in the tent at all times to make sure there were no issues with it, as had in fact occurred the previous night or two under much better weather conditions and with the use of the stove to heat it.  To me, the obviously best explanation is that the tent was no longer viable structurally and was about to collapse, be torn apart by winds, or whatever (a simple, inexpensive recreation would likely provide this information).  And if they had wanted fire wood they would have done that during daylight, and could have simply set up the tent by the trees in the first place.  The plan supposedly was not to use the stove that night due to the work required, and if they had sent out two or three to get fire wood and bring it back, there should be evidence of that, such as the stove being fully or partially assembled.  Instead, there is a robust fire started in the tree area, and nowhere else.

January 22, 2021, 03:09:25 PM
Reply #88

DAXXY

Guest
I admire how you're trying to make sense of it all, but I don't think they would have left without footwear and coats etc. if they had a choice.  Why would they leave a turned off flashlight on top of the tent - why not just leave it in the tent?  I'm more inclined to agree with Starman that the tent was never pitched on the slope.

They were dressed adequately for a search down to the trees. Their main danger was getting wet from sweat or rain.  Dry cold was their normal environment.  They new the difference and the danger.  They all had layers of clothing both cotton and wool.  The flashlight was off to save it's battery. The furthest one from the tent was on.  The first person back would then put the tent light on.  The flashlights were placed to show a route back up to the tent.  It was on top of the tent because they had to put snow on the tent to weigh it down in case the wind got under it and it acted like a boat sail.  I suspect that Dyatlov as leader was following a set plan that existed in their training for a missing hiker.  If it was possible to find their training manual it might be in that and explain a lot.

They were not adequately dressed for a walk of about a mile with temperature around minus 20 degrees centigrade.

This guy did it in socks.

January 22, 2021, 03:16:46 PM
Reply #89

DAXXY

Guest
I admire how you're trying to make sense of it all, but I don't think they would have left without footwear and coats etc. if they had a choice.  Why would they leave a turned off flashlight on top of the tent - why not just leave it in the tent?  I'm more inclined to agree with Starman that the tent was never pitched on the slope.

They were dressed adequately for a search down to the trees. Their main danger was getting wet from sweat or rain.  Dry cold was their normal environment.  They new the difference and the danger.  They all had layers of clothing both cotton and wool.  The flashlight was off to save it's battery. The furthest one from the tent was on.  The first person back would then put the tent light on.  The flashlights were placed to show a route back up to the tent.  It was on top of the tent because they had to put snow on the tent to weigh it down in case the wind got under it and it acted like a boat sail.  I suspect that Dyatlov as leader was following a set plan that existed in their training for a missing hiker.  If it was possible to find their training manual it might be in that and explain a lot.

While I agree with some of this, I find it odd that you think the better explanation is that there was some sort of search party, perhaps for the two Yuris, which would mean that they would certainly keep at least two (probably more) people in the tent at all times to make sure there were no issues with it, as had in fact occurred the previous night or two under much better weather conditions and with the use of the stove to heat it.  To me, the obviously best explanation is that the tent was no longer viable structurally and was about to collapse, be torn apart by winds, or whatever (a simple, inexpensive recreation would likely provide this information).  And if they had wanted fire wood they would have done that during daylight, and could have simply set up the tent by the trees in the first place.  The plan supposedly was not to use the stove that night due to the work required, and if they had sent out two or three to get fire wood and bring it back, there should be evidence of that, such as the stove being fully or partially assembled.  Instead, there is a robust fire started in the tree area, and nowhere else.

They couldn't assemble and light the stove until everyone was in the tent and settled because of space and risk.
It's a good theory.  So they all go to the forest for shelter and make dens which collapse killing and injuring some of them and 3 try to make it back up to the tent.  Yes.  Plausible.  and no Yeti's...anywhere  grin1
But why leave the furthest flashlight on if they weren't thinking of returning. ?