Luda and Simons eyes popped out on their own..

[Dona]

Their eyes popped out on their own with the crushing chest injuries..Eyes do that with extreme internal pressure.. They have been known to pop out even with a strangling..

[tenne]

That makes sense, how did they get the pressure on their chest?

[Dona]

Thats the  question, isnt it.. What the heck crushed their ribs..There are 23 rib fractures between the 2 of them..

[sarapuk]

Their eyes popped out on their own with the crushing chest injuries..Eyes do that with extreme internal pressure.. They have been known to pop out even with a strangling..

It must have been one hell of a pressure then. And what about the other injuries like missing Tongue. And also some Flesh parts having appeared to have been surgically removed  ! ?

[Dona]

She had her mouth open and water was rushing o it..  Taking the tongue is one thing. but the floor of her mouth was gone..down into her neck..

[Nigel Evans]

Their eyes popped out on their own with the crushing chest injuries..Eyes do that with extreme internal pressure.. They have been known to pop out even with a strangling..

It's an interesting point i haven't heard before. But Nicolai would have experienced the greatest skull pressure and his eyes stayed in place. Another theory for the damage to Semyon and Lyudmila is that as the meltwater made the bodies mobile they stayed frozen at the head, eventually detaching leaving "bits" behind. still frozen into the ice.

As for the injuries, the evidence points to being crushed under the snow (no bruising). There's lots of possible causes, my favourite is a slab slide due to unnaturally high temperatures. If you look at the photos of the den after being dug out the side of the snow "wall" behind the man sanding there looks like "settled rubble" = avalanche/slab slide?

[Dona]

The problem with the snow crushed them theory is that they were not under snow.. Their clean hands prove that. They weren't digging a den. Also, their bodies are perpendicular to the creek..

[Nigel Evans]

They had a knife to cut the poles. The poles would make useful "spades" for digging. Pieces of fabric would enable removal of snow. More fabric would wrap around the poles to save hands. Two men fully dressed one with gloves.

[KFinn]

The problem with the snow crushed them theory is that they were not under snow.. Their clean hands prove that. They weren't digging a den. Also, their bodies are perpendicular to the creek..

I have to admit; I'm confused.  In the other thread, you said they were under frozen snow.  There are pictures of them being dug out from under the snow.  They were under snow.

[Dona]

In May they were under snow.. In February, they were not..

[Nigel Evans]

In May they were under snow.. In February, they were not..

Why not?

[Dona]

They laid on top of the snow.. by May, they were covered..They didnt dig..their hands  are not injured.

[KFinn]

They laid on top of the snow.. by May, they were covered..They didnt dig..their hands  are not injured.

The ends of Dubinina's fingers were missing, according to the autopsy.  How would you determine they weren't injured?

[Nigel Evans]

They laid on top of the snow.. by May, they were covered..They didnt dig..their hands  are not injured.

That's your guess, others guess different.

[Dona]

The ends of Dubinina's fingers were missing, according to the autopsy.  How would you determine they weren't injured?
[/quote]

"....fingers are covered with wrinkled ‘bath skin’ which is removed together with the nail plate."

[Dona]

It's not a guess.. Their hands are NOT injured. Fact.

[Nigel Evans]

It's not a guess.. Their hands are NOT injured. Fact.

Why should their hands be injured from digging a snow den? Lots of people dig dens without getting injured?

[Dona]

Snow is ice crystals.. mini  razor blades. Brutal on bare hands.

[tenne]

Snow is ice crystals.. mini  razor blades. Brutal on bare hands.

That totally depends on the snow conditions.  Digging in frozen hard snow will do that to your hands, digging in soft freshly fallen snow won't. Neither will wet snow.

[Dona]

Ice is still ice..in any form.

[Nigel Evans]

Snow is ice crystals.. mini  razor blades. Brutal on bare hands.

I better not ever throw any snowballs then... Hang on...

[Dona]

Certainly not every  3 seconds, for half an hour, on someones bare skin.

[sarapuk]

She had her mouth open and water was rushing o it..  Taking the tongue is one thing. but the floor of her mouth was gone..down into her neck..

Not sure what you are getting at ! ?

[sarapuk]

Their eyes popped out on their own with the crushing chest injuries..Eyes do that with extreme internal pressure.. They have been known to pop out even with a strangling..

It's an interesting point i haven't heard before. But Nicolai would have experienced the greatest skull pressure and his eyes stayed in place. Another theory for the damage to Semyon and Lyudmila is that as the meltwater made the bodies mobile they stayed frozen at the head, eventually detaching leaving "bits" behind. still frozen into the ice.

As for the injuries, the evidence points to being crushed under the snow (no bruising). There's lots of possible causes, my favourite is a slab slide due to unnaturally high temperatures. If you look at the photos of the den after being dug out the side of the snow "wall" behind the man sanding there looks like "settled rubble" = avalanche/slab slide?

Crushed under the snow  ! ? People have been buried in Avalanches and got out virtually unscathed.

[KFinn]

It's not a guess.. Their hands are NOT injured. Fact.

I disagree.  It is not fact.  It isn't possible to determine if their hands were injured or not, especially since Dubinina's fingertips were not present, we have no picture of her hands and we would not be able to determine anything now, as there would be little to no soft tissue left, even if they could exhume. 

[sarapuk]

The problem with the snow crushed them theory is that they were not under snow.. Their clean hands prove that. They weren't digging a den. Also, their bodies are perpendicular to the creek..

The position of the bodies certainly doesnt lend itself well to the snow crushed Theory. Its like they were placed there.

[Dona]

That's right. They certainly werent crushed to death. I think they were killed individually..

[KFinn]

All in all, you make a lot of assertions with very little evidence to give us a reason to agree.  I'll be interested to see more tangible evidence that back your theories. 

[sarapuk]

In May they were under snow.. In February, they were not..

You have a point. We dont know for sure though. A lot of snow could accumulate in a few weeks or months.

[Dona]

I wouldnt mention something without evidence to back it up