November 21, 2024, 03:09:54 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: They were NOT crushed by snow  (Read 44501 times)

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March 25, 2021, 09:16:27 AM
Reply #30
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KFinn


-Ren
 

March 25, 2021, 09:19:17 AM
Reply #31
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Игорь Б.


An example of the impact of chemical weapons of a skunk (wolverine) in a tent:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=117054
 

March 25, 2021, 09:45:54 AM
Reply #32
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Dona


 

March 25, 2021, 10:01:04 AM
Reply #33
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Tony


The snow cave was near the ravine..They all died after they built it..Why they left it... who knows..

Just a thought. After Yuri D. and Yuri K. died, the four left the fire and walked deeper into the forest. Why they left the fire is open for interpretation. 3 of the four (or all four) lost footing and, possibly slid down an embankment and landed onto exposed rocks (Dubinina was found lying face down on a large rock). 3 of the four were mortally wounded during this fall. The remaining member, who did not sustain significant injuries, built the bed nearby. They did not build a snow cave. After succumbing to the elements, the fourth member died by the others. They were missed during the initial search and eventually covered by a lot of snow.

This has obvious problems but it makes the most sense.
"If there exists a fact which can only be thought of as sinister. A fact which can only point to some sinister underpinning, you will never be able to think up all the non-sinister, perfectly valid explanations for that fact."
- Josiah Thomson
 

March 25, 2021, 10:14:12 AM
Reply #34
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Dona


If they fell, they would have broken arms from bracing the fall..No one falls face first..It was a slope..not a cliff.
 

March 25, 2021, 10:52:06 AM
Reply #35
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RMK


The cause of the collapse of the snow shelter is known:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=78905
Can you provide a translation?

Yes, please!!  Or even a basic synopsis? 
You may be able to configure your web browser to automatically translate a foreign-language webpage into English via your online translation machine of choice (or at least, via the browser vendor's translation machine).  I'm currently posting via Chromium under Debian GNU/Linux, and its out-of-the-box default is to ask you whether you want to translate a foreign-language page with Google Translate.
 

March 25, 2021, 11:10:13 AM
Reply #36
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Dona


Posting someone elses opinion doesnt substantiate your own.
 

March 25, 2021, 11:28:59 AM
Reply #37
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KFinn


The cause of the collapse of the snow shelter is known:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=78905
Can you provide a translation?

Yes, please!!  Or even a basic synopsis? 
You may be able to configure your web browser to automatically translate a foreign-language webpage into English via your online translation machine of choice (or at least, via the browser vendor's translation machine).  I'm currently posting via Chromium under Debian GNU/Linux, and its out-of-the-box default is to ask you whether you want to translate a foreign-language page with Google Translate.

Aha!!!  Thanks to my amazing daughter who has mad IT skills (so glad those college loans are paying off!!!!) she was able to show me how to install Chrome onto my Kindle so I can translate pages automatically, now!!!  Okay, now I have even more reading to do, lol!  The Kindle Silk browser did not have an extension or add on for translations so up until now, I had to copy and paste line by line into Google translate and it was simply not possible for me to do anything of length and get meaningful information. 
-Ren
 

March 25, 2021, 11:50:58 AM
Reply #38
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RMK


Aha!!!  Thanks to my amazing daughter who has mad IT skills (so glad those college loans are paying off!!!!) she was able to show me how to install Chrome onto my Kindle so I can translate pages automatically, now!!!  Okay, now I have even more reading to do, lol!  The Kindle Silk browser did not have an extension or add on for translations so up until now, I had to copy and paste line by line into Google translate and it was simply not possible for me to do anything of length and get meaningful information.
Glad to hear it!
 

March 25, 2021, 11:56:32 AM
Reply #39
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Tony


If they fell, they would have broken arms from bracing the fall..No one falls face first..It was a slope..not a cliff.

It was a ravine.

People don't get broken ribs from a fall!?

https://trauma-acute-care.imedpub.com/injuries-sustained-by-falls--a-review.php?aid=18940

"Thoracic injuries are more common in high falls, the commonest specific injuries being rib fractures, lung contusion, pneumothorax and hemothorax [10]. In very high falls cardiac and aortic rupture are common [3]."

Fall from 4 ft:


https://youtu.be/yACJTNJ4rZU?t=349







The medical examiner even stated fall as possible explanation of injuries:

Question: From what kind of force could Thibeaux-Brignolle have received such injury?

Answer: In the conclusion, it’s shown the damage to Thibeaux-Brignolle’s head could have been the result of the throwing, fall or jettisoning of the body.

Falling in the dark happens fast.
"If there exists a fact which can only be thought of as sinister. A fact which can only point to some sinister underpinning, you will never be able to think up all the non-sinister, perfectly valid explanations for that fact."
- Josiah Thomson
 

March 25, 2021, 11:56:47 AM
Reply #40
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Nigel Evans


 

March 25, 2021, 01:24:15 PM
Reply #41
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Ziljoe


I have had no problems reading Igor B's links. I am not sure what problem you guys are having with automatic translation.

I highly recommend reading it all to understand, it would save on all the questions.

From what I can astatine and in a very basic explanation , the ravine 4 were possibly the first to die. The area is very different today than how it was 60 years ago with vegetation. The nature of the wind would blow the snow over the ravine. (Igor shows an example photo) . It is possible that there was a natural snow cave over the ravine. It is suggested that the may have dug out some more snow and made the roof of the cave too flat which makes it more likely to collapse. The reason they are found the way they were is because they were sheltering themselves and using the coats to cover each other, or sharing them. It doesn't mean they were lying in the stream and there may have been some migration of the bodies when the thawing started.

If there was a couple of meters of snow above them and it collapsed , it could explain the broken ribs and maybe the eyes being forced out as Dona has suggested. Igor B explains a lot of this and why there are less damage to their hands and why only one side of the ribs are broken. Igor B explains the nature of the snow in a collapse and how it becomes harder and more compact.

 It was identified at the time of digging them out  that the snow was hard.

There is a lot of good information and research with photos and videos of the area. It is the best explanation that I have read hands down.
 

March 25, 2021, 01:42:00 PM
Reply #42
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KFinn


I have had no problems reading Igor B's links. I am not sure what problem you guys are having with automatic translation.

I highly recommend reading it all to understand, it would save on all the questions.

From what I can astatine and in a very basic explanation , the ravine 4 were possibly the first to die. The area is very different today than how it was 60 years ago with vegetation. The nature of the wind would blow the snow over the ravine. (Igor shows an example photo) . It is possible that there was a natural snow cave over the ravine. It is suggested that the may have dug out some more snow and made the roof of the cave too flat which makes it more likely to collapse. The reason they are found the way they were is because they were sheltering themselves and using the coats to cover each other, or sharing them. It doesn't mean they were lying in the stream and there may have been some migration of the bodies when the thawing started.

If there was a couple of meters of snow above them and it collapsed , it could explain the broken ribs and maybe the eyes being forced out as Dona has suggested. Igor B explains a lot of this and why there are less damage to their hands and why only one side of the ribs are broken. Igor B explains the nature of the snow in a collapse and how it becomes harder and more compact.

 It was identified at the time of digging them out  that the snow was hard.

There is a lot of good information and research with photos and videos of the area. It is the best explanation that I have read hands down.

I've been reading through it, now that I've got a browser that translates.  I had not personally thought about a snow cave with a roof, until now.  I always assumed it was just a hole dug vertically into the snow, rather than a cave dug more horizontally.  We used to dig crazy snow caves as kids every day, I just hadn't considered it this was, for whatever reason (I'm much less creative as an adult than I was in my immortal youth, lol!!)  It makes sense.  And the way it is presented makes sense.  I've always felt that you can't judge the body positions in the ravine based on how they were found as snow and water can shift things, substantially.  This is absolutely a plausible scenario, as presented.

Thank you for the synopsis!!  It has been frustrating for me trying to translate various sources.  Kindle has weird proprietary issues so being able to install a browser that supported a translation add-on took some time.  Well, it took *me* time whining and took my daughter five minutes to hack, lol!! 
-Ren
 

March 25, 2021, 01:44:27 PM
Reply #43
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Dona


I think Bigfoot would be a better explanation..
 

March 25, 2021, 02:28:00 PM
Reply #44
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Ziljoe


Thanks Kfinn. It is a very interesting theory . It give explanations to a lot of the problems, even the hands , autopsy reports. Its Igor B's research and is very extensive. It is a good simple theory that is plausible.

As I understand it from the photos, the den was slightly above the ravine 4. He also suggested there was a significant change in temperature.

 

March 25, 2021, 02:31:29 PM
Reply #45
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Ziljoe


I think Bigfoot would be a better explanation..

Hi Dona, how would you fit Bigfoot in to the explanation?
 

March 25, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Reply #46
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Dona


I was being facetious..  People dont fall to their deaths sliding down a snow slope.
 

March 25, 2021, 03:13:46 PM
Reply #47
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Ziljoe


I was being facetious..  People dont fall to their deaths sliding down a snow slope.

Lol Dona. I was guessing that you were.

Igor B is not saying they walked over a snow bridge and fell( this has been suggested by others though)
 

March 25, 2021, 03:21:11 PM
Reply #48
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Nigel Evans


If they fell, they would have broken arms from bracing the fall..No one falls face first..It was a slope..not a cliff.

It was a ravine.

People don't get broken ribs from a fall!?

https://trauma-acute-care.imedpub.com/injuries-sustained-by-falls--a-review.php?aid=18940

"Thoracic injuries are more common in high falls, the commonest specific injuries being rib fractures, lung contusion, pneumothorax and hemothorax [10]. In very high falls cardiac and aortic rupture are common [3]."

Fall from 4 ft:


https://youtu.be/yACJTNJ4rZU?t=349


The medical examiner even stated fall as possible explanation of injuries:

Question: From what kind of force could Thibeaux-Brignolle have received such injury?

Answer: In the conclusion, it’s shown the damage to Thibeaux-Brignolle’s head could have been the result of the throwing, fall or jettisoning of the body.

Falling in the dark happens fast.

From your first link, falls with a drop of 22m (6 floors) result in a 50% mortality. A fall of 7.34m results in 4% mortality. Wrt emergency services, Lyudmila would have been DOA, Semyon probably the same, Nicolai's survival would depend on his brain function but note his skull was misshapen with the base of the skull split up to 4mm, so perhaps 50/50 that he would have lived, unlikely that he would function properly.

Breaking ribs from a fall of 4 feet is not a flail chest, Semyon's morgue photo shows that his upper rib cage has simply been flattened. Also the shoulder blade fracture suggests he was lying on his back.
A fallen tree is a far more sensible theory (for the ravine deaths).
 

March 25, 2021, 03:21:38 PM
Reply #49
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Dona


Who is this Igor that you keep referencing?
 

March 25, 2021, 03:24:37 PM
Reply #50
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Dona


5 people, including Rustem, falling to their deaths at one time.. is ludicrous.
 

March 25, 2021, 03:49:19 PM
Reply #51
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Ziljoe


Who is this Igor that you keep referencing?

Look at posts #23 and #31 Dona, that's Igor B .
 

March 25, 2021, 03:52:43 PM
Reply #52
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Dona


 

March 25, 2021, 03:55:47 PM
Reply #53
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Dona


Agreed Nigel..

And the tree would be more believable.. :)
 

March 25, 2021, 04:01:00 PM
Reply #54
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Dona


They only way the fall theory works is if they had their hands tied behind their backs and they were pushed.. ...I might could go with that
 

March 25, 2021, 04:01:07 PM
Reply #55
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Ziljoe


Nigel Evans. Have a read of Igor B explanation of things. Its an I retesting approach as well as a tree. He also covers from the tent, it's location and all of the following events . I would love to hear your thoughts.
 

March 25, 2021, 04:07:04 PM
Reply #56
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Dona


Dont do that. People dont have all day to read someone elses links.. Explain it yourself and if they are interested they can go read it.
 

March 25, 2021, 04:13:43 PM
Reply #57
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Ziljoe


Dont do that. People dont have all day to read someone elses links.. Explain it yourself and if they are interested they can go read it.

Hi Dona, are you addressing me?
 

March 25, 2021, 04:18:36 PM
Reply #58
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Dona


 

March 25, 2021, 04:36:38 PM
Reply #59
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Nigel Evans


Nigel Evans. Have a read of Igor B explanation of things. Its an I retesting approach as well as a tree. He also covers from the tent, it's location and all of the following events . I would love to hear your thoughts.
He's posted several links, some of us are busy? But if you repost it i'll have a read.