Luda was lying down too

[Dona]

You dont get a crushing chest injury standing up.. or from a fall..

So, thats Luda, Simon and Rustem, all lying down, presumably in the snow..looks like face down,  PRIOR to injury..

What the hell are they doing??

[sarapuk]

You dont get a crushing chest injury standing up.. or from a fall..

So, thats Luda, Simon and Rustem, all lying down, presumably in the snow..looks like face down,  PRIOR to injury..

What the hell are they doing??

Thats a good question, what the hell brought them to be in that position ! ? Its like they were placed there. I mean with those kind of serious injuries its not like they all cuddled up to one another.

[Manti]

You dont get a crushing chest injury standing up..

So, not that personally I'm sold on that theory at all, but consider a moose attack. Look at videos of what annoyed moose typically do... you will see how it's possible to get chest injury standing up. 

[sarapuk]

You dont get a crushing chest injury standing up..

So, not that personally I'm sold on that theory at all, but consider a moose attack. Look at videos of what annoyed moose typically do... you will see how it's possible to get chest injury standing up.

I would suggest Bear as a candidate. Although that doesnt explain Missing Eyes and Tongue, or lack of Footprints.

[Manti]

I would suggest Bear as a candidate. Although that doesnt explain Missing Eyes and Tongue, or lack of Footprints.

Not conclusive but I thought the missing eyes and tongue are post-mortem?

And it could have been a bear too.. I liked the moose idea because moose prints almost don't look like prints at all. Whereas bear prints are fairly obvious and would be preserved as well as human footprints.

[Dona]

You dont get a crushing chest injury standing up.. or from a fall..

So, thats Luda, Simon and Rustem, all lying down, presumably in the snow..looks like face down,  PRIOR to injury..

What the hell are they doing??

Thats a good question, what the hell brought them to be in that position ! ? Its like they were placed there. I mean with those kind of serious injuries its not like they all cuddled up to one another.

Yeah, it looks like they were placed there.. near the den..the dead ad dying.. Ludas livor mortis changed from back to her side..  Prolly died on her back, the shortly after, moved and placed there on her side..

[Dona]

You dont get a crushing chest injury standing up..

So, not that personally I'm sold on that theory at all, but consider a moose attack. Look at videos of what annoyed moose typically do... you will see how it's possible to get chest injury standing up.

 A moose! There is something no ones thought of.. Capable of making those injuries.. Anything is possible!

[Dona]

I think Ludas face and mouth was sandblast with ice crystals in the creek water. I still say the eyes were lost with impact.. But  no way to know for sure.. Eyes can and do pop out, even on living breathing people..

[Manti]

A moose! There is something no ones thought of.. Capable of making those injuries.. Anything is possible!

Oh, there's a whole board on this forum dedicated to the moose theory.

Just the first video that came up in Google for me. But this is what they usually try to do.. try to "trample" people and don't give up, this one only gave up because they had a gun:

[Dona]

Certainly food for thought... I doubt that they would run from a moose but maybe its a 2 part thing..

[RMK]

A moose! There is something no ones thought of.. Capable of making those injuries.. Anything is possible!

Oh, there's a whole board on this forum dedicated to the moose theory.

Manti is right.  Here is the dedicated subforum.  Note that the Eurasian Elk and the North American Moose are, to the best of my knowledge, the same species.

[bergertime]

Is Luda lying down, in that picture she looks like she is leaning against that ledge? 

[Dona]

I would assume the current got her.. slid her off the edge,

[sarapuk]

I would suggest Bear as a candidate. Although that doesnt explain Missing Eyes and Tongue, or lack of Footprints.

Not conclusive but I thought the missing eyes and tongue are post-mortem?

And it could have been a bear too.. I liked the moose idea because moose prints almost don't look like prints at all. Whereas bear prints are fairly obvious and would be preserved as well as human footprints.

Well my suspicions were aroused when I noticed the lack of detail in the Autopsy Report of Dubinina. Regarding the Tongue, all it said was that the Tongue was missing. What kind of Autopsy Report is that  ! ? Then nothing about the exact process of Decay that was alleged to have been responsible for the missing Eyes and Tongue.

[sarapuk]

You dont get a crushing chest injury standing up..

So, not that personally I'm sold on that theory at all, but consider a moose attack. Look at videos of what annoyed moose typically do... you will see how it's possible to get chest injury standing up.

 A moose! There is something no ones thought of.. Capable of making those injuries.. Anything is possible!

Moose has been mentioned before on this Forum. They are big animals and tend to make a mess when they rampage and leave lots of Traces. No Evidence of involvement by Moose.

[sarapuk]

I would assume the current got her.. slid her off the edge,

Thats a good assumption.

[Ziljoe]

I would suggest Bear as a candidate. Although that doesnt explain Missing Eyes and Tongue, or lack of Footprints.

Not conclusive but I thought the missing eyes and tongue are post-mortem?

And it could have been a bear too.. I liked the moose idea because moose prints almost don't look like prints at all. Whereas bear prints are fairly obvious and would be preserved as well as human footprints.

Well my suspicions were aroused when I noticed the lack of detail in the Autopsy Report of Dubinina. Regarding the Tongue, all it said was that the Tongue was missing. What kind of Autopsy Report is that  ! ? Then nothing about the exact process of Decay that was alleged to have been responsible for the missing Eyes and Tongue.
[/quot

Sarapuk, I thought you said the tongue was surgically removed?

[sarapuk]

I would suggest Bear as a candidate. Although that doesnt explain Missing Eyes and Tongue, or lack of Footprints.

Not conclusive but I thought the missing eyes and tongue are post-mortem?

And it could have been a bear too.. I liked the moose idea because moose prints almost don't look like prints at all. Whereas bear prints are fairly obvious and would be preserved as well as human footprints.

Well my suspicions were aroused when I noticed the lack of detail in the Autopsy Report of Dubinina. Regarding the Tongue, all it said was that the Tongue was missing. What kind of Autopsy Report is that  ! ? Then nothing about the exact process of Decay that was alleged to have been responsible for the missing Eyes and Tongue.
[/quot

Sarapuk, I thought you said the tongue was surgically removed?

I dont remember saying that. The Tongue was missing, thats all we know. No detail.

[Loose}{Cannon]

You dont get a crushing chest injury standing up.. or from a fall..

So, thats Luda, Simon and Rustem, all lying down, presumably in the snow..looks like face down,  PRIOR to injury..

What the hell are they doing??

🤨


https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=187.msg880#msg880

[Dona]

I dont get it.. what is your point here??

[Ziljoe]

I would suggest Bear as a candidate. Although that doesnt explain Missing Eyes and Tongue, or lack of Footprints.

Not conclusive but I thought the missing eyes and tongue are post-mortem?

And it could have been a bear too.. I liked the moose idea because moose prints almost don't look like prints at all. Whereas bear prints are fairly obvious and would be preserved as well as human footprints.

Well my suspicions were aroused when I noticed the lack of detail in the Autopsy Report of Dubinina. Regarding the Tongue, all it said was that the Tongue was missing. What kind of Autopsy Report is that  ! ? Then nothing about the exact process of Decay that was alleged to have been responsible for the missing Eyes and Tongue.
[/quot

Sarapuk, I thought you said the tongue was surgically removed?

I dont remember saying that. The Tongue was missing, thats all we know. No detail.

I think u said this sarapuk.


Doesnt explain the missing Tongue or Flesh parts that looked like they had been surgically removed

[Dona]

When  someones tongue is cut out,  you pull it out and cut the tip off.. like 1-2 inches.. You couldness get to the back of their throat to do it by hand..

[Ziljoe]

When  someones tongue is cut out,  you pull it out and cut the tip off.. like 1-2 inches.. You couldness get to the back of their throat to do it by hand..

Why you not in bed Dona.

Plus you are an expert on cutting out tongues! Lol

[Manti]

I dont get it.. what is your point here??

I read that link.. it's an expert opinion from a pathologist saying the injuries are consistent with single large surface area impact and not multiple blows by objects held by humans..

[Dona]

Yes, I know... Is someone disputing that?

[Manti]

Well, no, maybe, I don't know, but how can "large surface area impact" be human inflicted? Maybe it's possible somehow, I just can't think of how.


What has a large surface area on Kholat Syakhl?

• the ground
• large trees
• what else? a failed rocket, satellite or helicopter?
• a snow slab?

It's very unlikely for anything airborne to land exactly where they were sleeping - you are right, the injuries indicate they were laid down when those happened.

I think even these few options have issues, if something large fell on them whatever it is, who removed them from under it and how?

That leaves two options really, snow and falling from a height. Maybe my imagination is too tame. 

[Manti]

Oh and I wanted to add, falling from a height doesn't need to be the edge of a cliff (there's no cliff there) or an aircraft. It could be the tree. Maybe they fell out of the tree and then crawled to the ravine area. Why would they climb the tree? I'm reading more and more about hypothermia and it's increasingly clear it causes hallucinations as it progresses.

[Dona]

I dont think they climbed a tree. They arent scratched up like the others,, nd I doubt Luda would have been doing that.

Other possibilities could be people.. and something the had,, like guns..logs etc..

[Manti]

Do you think it could have been one of them? Harming the others until they restrain him (her) and they all freeze?

And some managed to escape but ran far and so also freeze in the cold?

[Dona]

It is possible it was  one, or more of them..