November 28, 2021, 10:14:22 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Some factual questions, and reflexion about clothing and cold.  (Read 1070 times)

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April 15, 2021, 06:25:57 PM
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Paf


So many things appears to be unclear !

- About counting skis : It is said (and some errors explained) they found 9 pairs of ski under the tent, plus one extra. We also know there was an extra pair left as mark for labaz. But the tent inventory page, it is also said they found a piece of broken ski 20 meter from the tent. (under the discarded flashlight shema).
How many pairs of ski did they have ? Could the broken one have been count as 1 even if broken in the first inventories ?

- The stove :
group diary : "The suspended stove radiates heat and divides the tent in two sections. The further section is occupied by me and Zina. Nobody wants to sleep by the stove. We agree that Yurka Kri (Krivonischenko) will sleep there. On the other side sleeps the person on duty (Sasha Kolevatov). Yurka couldn't stand the heat and after laying down for 1-2 min, he got up and moved to the second section cursing and accusing us of treason. "
what is exactly the setting of the stove & curtains ? I can't figure it out.
Why was the stove stored in the tent, and not "in use" ? They just had been eating ; why eat cold ? In some theories, they put the stove away after eating -generating smoke. But from the diary, it doesn't seem habitual to take it down to sleep. (Or maybe it was so hot they decided to take it down ? It would explain why at first when pushed out of the tent, they didn't feel the cold right away and decided to go without extra clothes
 ---------------------------------------------------------
- About clothing :
It is said  tibo and zolotaryov were "probably outside" because they were wearing more cloth than the other. I actually disagree with this last statement.
They had heavier jacket on, for sure. And shoes.  But the "onion methode" is actually quite as good as a big jacket, so Dyatlov, and Rustik slobodin were for me better or as well dressed than them - not accounting the fact Tibo was actually wearing 2 or 3 clothes he got from other people.

Youri Doroshenko was the only one with frostbite ; and if you add the cloth found on him and the one assumed to be taken on him by other, he only had short sleeves -but he still had 2 leggings under his jumpsuit.
Krivo was better dressed for the upper part ( Shirt, undershirt, 2 jumpers), but he was only wearing a long underwear.
Tibo was origynally only wearing a hat, 1 jumper, "warm woolen pants" and sport pants under. He definitively was not the best dressed when they got out ! ... But he took time to put his shoes on.
Dyatlov was originally wearing 1 shirt, 1 jumper, and 1 sleeveless jacket under it. But he was also wearing ski pants and flannel pants under. 
Dubinina was originally wearing 1 pants, 1 underlayer pants, 1 t-shirt, 1 shirt, 1 jumper and a good jacket, plus a hat.
Zina had good leg coverage - Baize ski pants, sport pants, the 2 legging-style pants, but only 1 big jumper, 1 shirt and 1 woolen jumper just on her skin. 2 hats.
Zolotaryov was invers :  warm jacket, 2 jumpers and a t-shirt, but only one pants and 1 underlayer pants. He was the only one with a scarf, had 2 hats, shoes... It's pretty good, but only because he got the fur jacket.
Koletanov had at first only 2 lights pants, but 2 shirts and 2 jumpers under a warm jacket.
Then, Rustik had Ski pants with 2 underlayer pants, 2 shirts, 2 jumper, and a woolen cloth right on his skin (Plus shoe sole insulation in between 2 layers). He didn't have any big jacket, but he was still not to badly protected ! 
Tibo had on addition a pair of gloves in Dubinina's coat's pocket.

I think they actually add some layering to what they were wearing when problems hit. They did not have time to dress fully, but the disparity (some better on upper clothing, some best on lower clothing) make me thing they each had time to ad some cloth to what they were wearing inside. Not enough : but it wasn't total panic ; that match the way they calmly walk downhill.
 I'm used to have at least one week of -40°C per winter where I live, and -20°C in winter is warm. I know how -30 feels. Dressed like that, and 9 people together able to keep close to stay warm, and a fire/a den, they should not have frozen within a -30°C night (as long they were not sleeping)... They were also used to the cold. There was no need to freak out, not before more problems came in addition.

An interesting fact is that Dyatlov, Zina, Rustik, and Tibo only wore wool right on their skin. Cotton is bad as first layer : they should all have been wearing wool first if they were cold (wool stay warm even if you are sweating). 
For me, they were the last surviving (Tibo the first of those four to die at the den, leaving the 3 remaining free - but a bit late- to try a hike to the tent) and the only one to really feel the cold as a problem big enough to miss the tent stove.
The other got injuried before, and froze from immobility and trauma.


« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 06:37:09 PM by Paf »
 

April 15, 2021, 06:28:33 PM
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Paf


« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 06:38:21 PM by Paf »
 

April 15, 2021, 06:29:21 PM
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Paf


« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 06:37:58 PM by Paf »
 

April 15, 2021, 11:24:53 PM
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Teddy

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So many things appears to be unclear !
I agree.

My conclusion about the skis: https://dyatlovpass.com/controversy#skis

Tent: https://dyatlovpass.com/controversy#tent

The stove was used for heating only. They were cooking on a fire built over a pit in the snow, logs on top. Much like the one found under the cedar tree. If they had decided to pitch the tent where it was found that would have been a what they call cold night - no fire. They would have to carry the wood from the forest. This is what doesn't make sense - why pitch the tent on the top if there is forest on both sides. They were coming from the south and had spare time to make it over the ridge and pitch the tent on the other side, where the bodies were found.

 

April 16, 2021, 01:52:30 AM
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Paf


If there was 9 pairs of ski at the tente, was one of them broken, or was the broken bit an extra ?
If one of the 9 pairs was broken, then then may have settle the tent here -under good weather at first- expecting to send one of them back to get the spare one at labaz. (and then they would probably have had to adapt the spare skis to the right personne, what can take some time under shelter as well. )
If it was extra, where did it came from ?

The reason they settle there could also have been an itinerary problem. That's why they set up so close from the previous camp : they were lost.
(they followed the hunter trail for some time before, without insurance they were going to the right place. They can have been unsure either they were only too high above Dyatlov's pass (as they were), or in the "valley" where is Labaz (the "pass" they took being the little flat just above 500m), or worst.
 

April 17, 2021, 09:42:08 AM
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Teddy

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I want to add to my post above that the main reason for the stove not to have been used would be not the lack of firewood. The tent as illustrated on the photo is designed to hang on trees in order to use it's full potential. Propping the tent on ski and poles is an emergency setup. It won't be able to carry the weight of the suspended stove.
 

April 19, 2021, 12:41:53 PM
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eurocentric

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Photo's from the 1958 Subpolar Ural trek show the stove deployed when up a mountain. Igor was on that trip.





The significant thing there is how they have to secure it, with 2 rope windings through the tent centre eyelets, a higher level horizontal rope brace, and both skis are double-anchored with ski poles. The weather on that trip seemed perfect, judging by the photographs.

So two things happen on 1079, either the hikers are unable to secure the tent ridge in the dark and during increasing winds, and out of that cannot deploy their stove, which due to rising wind chill eventually makes bailing-out inevitable.

Or, if going the book route, the restagers were completely dumbfounded in the dark as to how to set up the tent supports on a slope and do so in a way which secured the stove, so they didn't bother. There were no ridge support ropes shown tied to the skis in the rescue photo's, not even slipped down.
 

April 20, 2021, 12:21:53 AM
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Paf


I may have found something about the "piece of broken ski" !

In the tent-site inventory by hiker, in Dyatlov's inventory, there is : "flexor for skiing".
Flexor is a piece of ski binding. It's the red part on this image :


Now, the problem is... Is it the mentionned "broken ski parts" ? Did he had spare, or did his binding need fixing in the middle of the slope ? Since they were identified, they were probably spare ; or he was the only one using this very type ?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 01:20:59 AM by Paf »