Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: anna_pycckux on January 31, 2023, 06:52:41 AM
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"Look, maybe you'll find out how they escaped to Norway undressed!"
To me, that's sounds pretty much ironic. But then again, irony does not translate well...
Видеосюжет: важные свидетели Борис Слобцов, Владимир Аскинадзи, Юрий Юдин все, но в разное время и при разных обстоятельствах рассказывают, что туристов подозревали в побеге за границу.
Вывод: власть верила ложным доносам о готовящемся побеге, и чтоб упредить ситуацию - могла отдать приказ о ликвидации группы. (это моя версия).
Video: important witnesses Boris Slobtsov, Vladimir Askinadzi, Yuri Yudin all, but at different times and under different circumstances, say that tourists were suspected of fleeing abroad.
Conclusion: the authorities believed false denunciations about the impending escape, and in order to pre-empt the situation, they could order the liquidation of the group. (this is my version).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy0dgnsCsU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy0dgnsCsU)
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I'm wondering, why kill someone who wanted to defect to another country? Wouldn't they be rather caught and send to a g dunno1ulag?
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I'm wondering, why kill someone who wanted to defect to another country? Wouldn't they be rather caught and send to a g dunno1ulag?
Sorry, made a mistake, that should have been
Wouldn't they be rather caught and send to a gulag? dunno1
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You would think, as smart as they were, they would have forged documents with them.
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I'm wondering, why kill someone who wanted to defect to another country? Wouldn't they be rather caught and send to a g dunno1ulag?
Sorry, made a mistake, that should have been
Wouldn't they be rather caught and send to a gulag? dunno1
Kill them because they were going to flee abroad?...It takes a month to get to the border there on skis :-) Look at the map and laugh with me at the theory. Even fugitive criminals were simply caught and put back in the colony, increasing their period of detention.
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I'm wondering, why kill someone who wanted to defect to another country? Wouldn't they be rather caught and send to a g dunno1ulag?
Sorry, made a mistake, that should have been Wouldn't they be rather caught and send to a gulag?
Вопрос правильный. Но власть не хотела поднимать шум, тем более она скорее всего догадывалась, что доносы были ложными, а возможно, КГБ и сами писали эти ложные доносы. Если бы ребят стали судить - то поднялся бы шум такой же как после скандальной комсомольской конференции с осуждением власти и партийного аппарата на местах. А может еще громче. Наверное западной аудитории все это не очень понятно. Но посмотрите посты о Чернобыле, о Новочеркасском расстреле, о вводе войск в Венгрию, в Германию, Чехословакию. Любое подозрение в оппозиции - безжалостно уничтожалось.
The question is correct. The authorities did not want to make a fuss, especially since they most likely guessed that the denunciations were false, and perhaps the KGB themselves wrote these false denunciations. If the guys were tried, the noise would be the same as after the scandalous Komsomol conference with the condemnation of the authorities and the party apparatus on the ground. Or maybe even louder. Probably, all this is not very clear to the Western audience. But look at the posts about Chernobyl, about the shooting in Novocherkassk, about the introduction of troops into Hungary, Germany, Czechoslovakia. Any suspicions about the opposition were ruthlessly destroyed.
на скриншоте записка из УПИ о том, что некая студентка Пыхтеева Надя донесла на более удачливую подружку Петухову. Петухова была арестована. В записке написано: будьте бдительны ( то есть будьте осторожны, стукачи не дремлют).
in the screenshot there is a note from the UPI that a certain student Pykhteeva Nadia denounced a more successful girlfriend to Petukhov. Petukhova was arrested. The note says: be vigilant (that is, be careful, snitches are not asleep).
(https://i.ibb.co/qm95cc3/3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SV0rMM4)
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Kill them because they were going to flee abroad?...It takes a month to get to the border there on skis :-) Look at the map and laugh with me at the theory. Even fugitive criminals were simply caught and put back in the colony, increasing their period of detention.
Ваш вопрос наверное к Кириленко и к партийному аппарату УПИ. Посмотрите видеоролик. тогда не будет глупых вопросов. И включи логику, Карпов. Беглые зэки бежали просто на волю. А тут серьезные ложные доносы: хотят сбежать ЗА ГРАНИЦУ, эта группа - шпионы и черт те что (слова Юрия Юдина). Чувствуешь разницу или до сих пор не догоняешь?
Your question is probably addressed to Kirilenko and the UPI party apparatus. Watch the video. then there will be no stupid questions. And turn on the logic, Karpov. Escaped prisoners simply fled to freedom. The comparison is incorrect. There are serious false denunciations here: they want to escape abroad, this group is "spies and the devil knows what" (words of Yuri Yudin). Do you feel the difference or are you still not catching up?
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Are you talking about logic here? take a ruler and measure the distance to the nearest "abroad", and then take your skis and try to walk at least a kilometer through the snow-covered mountains in -30 degrees frost. “serious false (!) denunciations”???? It's really funny for me to read this.
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https://www.nbcnews.com/video/gamers-recreate-soviet-union-escape-routes-43610691827
A new role-playing game in Latvia recreates the dangerous escape plans out of the Soviet Union. NBCNews.com's Richard Lui reports.
maybe if there are any video game players on here they could try the route
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Are you talking about logic here? take a ruler and measure the distance to the nearest "abroad", and then take your skis and try to walk at least a kilometer through the snow-covered mountains in -30 degrees frost. “serious false (!) denunciations”???? It's really funny for me to read this.
People walked far further than that and took extreme measures to escape the soviet union. A very quick google search shows many extreme escapes and where did you get the -30 from? the temperatures were not that cold there on a consistent basis.
Given the extremely limited information we have, we have no idea if they didn't set up contacts to get them out, set up supplies, have documents stored somewhere for them or for that matter on them. I highly doubt the authorities wanted anyone to know the cream of the crop was trying to escape and would they tell us if those things were found? I doubt it
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Are you talking about logic here? take a ruler and measure the distance to the nearest "abroad", and then take your skis and try to walk at least a kilometer through the snow-covered mountains in -30 degrees frost. “serious false (!) denunciations”???? It's really funny for me to read this.
Умеешь пользоваться линейкой? Вау! Осталось научиться пользоваться мозгами.
Do you know how to use a ruler? Wow! It remains to learn how to use brains.
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People walked far further than that and took extreme measures to escape the soviet union. A very quick google search shows many extreme escapes and where did you get the -30 from? the temperatures were not that cold there on a consistent basis.
Да, яндекс и гуугл могут рассказать об интересных и неожиданных случаях побега за границу советских людей. Как правило эти люди в СССР заочно приговаривались к смертной казни. Но я уверена, что Дятлов и его друзья были патриотами, никуда бежать они не собирались, но у таких партийцев как Кириленко "у страха глаза велики" (сленг), они верили ложным доносам и спешили предпринять упреждающие меры.
Они после скандальной конференции 1956 не могли прийти в себя и "обжегшись на молоке - дули на воду" (сленг), то есть они перестраховывались, тем более, что поход туристов совпадал с 21 съездом КПСС.
Yes, Google can tell you about interesting and unexpected cases of Soviet people escaping abroad. As a rule, these people in the USSR were sentenced to death in absentia. But I am sure that Dyatlov and his friends were patriots, they were not going to flee abroad, but party members like Kirilenko have "big eyes from fear" (slang), they believed false denunciations and hurried to take proactive measures.
After the scandalous 1956 conference, they could not come to their senses in any way and "burned themselves on milk - blew on water" (slang), that is, they were reinsured, especially since the tourists' trip coincided with the 21st Congress of the CPSU.
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Are you talking about logic here? take a ruler and measure the distance to the nearest "abroad", and then take your skis and try to walk at least a kilometer through the snow-covered mountains in -30 degrees frost. “serious false (!) denunciations”???? It's really funny for me to read this.
Умеешь пользоваться линейкой? Вау! Осталось научиться пользоваться мозгами.
Do you know how to use a ruler? Wow! It remains to learn how to use brains.
I will take the hit for being stupid and not using brains. Here's where I'm at Anna and it's not coming across logical. (To stupid me at least) . Are you saying false accusations were made against the DP9 , the KGB acted on these false allegations and "liquidated them". It was then found out that the dp9 were loyal and thenpowers that be / government covered it all up?.
It's not making sense.
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Are you talking about logic here? take a ruler and measure the distance to the nearest "abroad", and then take your skis and try to walk at least a kilometer through the snow-covered mountains in -30 degrees frost. “serious false (!) denunciations”???? It's really funny for me to read this.
Умеешь пользоваться линейкой? Вау! Осталось научиться пользоваться мозгами.
Do you know how to use a ruler? Wow! It remains to learn how to use brains.
I will take the hit for being stupid and not using brains. Here's where I'm at Anna and it's not coming across logical. (To stupid me at least) . Are you saying false accusations were made against the DP9 , the KGB acted on these false allegations and "liquidated them". It was then found out that the dp9 were loyal and thenpowers that be / government covered it all up?.
It's not making sense.
"Between the early 1930s and his death in 1953, Joseph Stalin had more than a million of his own citizens executed. Millions more fell victim to forced labor, deportation, famine, bloody massacres, and detention and interrogation by Stalin's henchmen. Stalin's Genocides is the chilling story of these crimes.
So what about the severely repressive and brutal soviet regime makes you think they wouldn't kill people and/or cover it up?
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I will take the hit for being stupid and not using brains. Here's where I'm at Anna and it's not coming across logical. (To stupid me at least) . Are you saying false accusations were made against the DP9 , the KGB acted on these false allegations and "liquidated them". It was then found out that the dp9 were loyal and thenpowers that be / government covered it all up?. It's not making sense.
Это глупо! Да! Я такого же мнения. Но у власти стояли глупые люди, которых больше всего заботило сохрание власти и карьеры. Прочтите характеристики Кириленко. Быть может я вас удивлю, но Хрущев до старости не умел читать и писать. Власть принимала жестокие и глупые на наш взгляд решения, которые стоили людям их жизни.
This is stupid! Yes! I'm of the same opinion. But stupid people were in power, who were most concerned about preserving power and career. Read the characteristics of Kirilenko. Perhaps I will surprise you, but Khrushchev did not know how to read and write until his old age. The authorities made cruel and stupid, in our opinion, decisions that cost people their lives.
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After Stalin died, the change to not being in total fear of the government and what they would do did slowly change, late into the 1960's things were beginning to change under the new government but it has remained a country of severe repercussions including jail for saying things the government doesn't like. the laws passed against free speech. nothing really has changed. The latest is a proposal to not be able to say negative things about the convicts who were recruited by the Wagner group being released into society after their term of service in Ukraine (6 months) has been completed. Check out the executions of dissident russians in other countries done by the russian government
So why do you think that government wouldn't do it to the 9? Not the same people in charge but the exact same mind set
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Are you talking about logic here? take a ruler and measure the distance to the nearest "abroad", and then take your skis and try to walk at least a kilometer through the snow-covered mountains in -30 degrees frost. “serious false (!) denunciations”???? It's really funny for me to read this.
Умеешь пользоваться линейкой? Вау! Осталось научиться пользоваться мозгами.
Do you know how to use a ruler? Wow! It remains to learn how to use brains.
I will take the hit for being stupid and not using brains. Here's where I'm at Anna and it's not coming across logical. (To stupid me at least) . Are you saying false accusations were made against the DP9 , the KGB acted on these false allegations and "liquidated them". It was then found out that the dp9 were loyal and thenpowers that be / government covered it all up?.
It's not making sense.
"Between the early 1930s and his death in 1953, Joseph Stalin had more than a million of his own citizens executed. Millions more fell victim to forced labor, deportation, famine, bloody massacres, and detention and interrogation by Stalin's henchmen. Stalin's Genocides is the chilling story of these crimes.
So what about the severely repressive and brutal soviet regime makes you think they wouldn't kill people and/or cover it up?
Not this old chest nut again. Give up with the emotive language. You don't have to be a "severely repressive and brutal regime " to kill people or cover it up. It's one of the weakest arguments going. It's like saying "We don't know what happened so the brutal regime must know and they are covering it up, because way back in 19 oatcake ,( 19oatcake means some time in the past) . The brutal regime did bad stuff.
Every country did bad stuff. Russia had a complicated history, famine , workers kept down, revolution, 2 wars. No one was going to help them out. I could give you a list of oppression in the UK. Brutal in many ways
Riots all over the world. 1992 la riots, 63 killed, London 2011 , 16,000 police drafted in, 5 killed. The list is endless.
Perceived good governments do bad things! Bad government do good things. It would be wise and considered to reflect on your own country. Famine and breakdown of society could happen at anytime, quite quickly. Hence the bailing out of the banks but I'm getting off topic.
I fail to see the link as to any cover up by some bad guys. No one has supplied any evidence of outsiders in the dp9. Everything is in site on that slope. Diaries, equipment, tent, bodies .
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After Stalin died, the change to not being in total fear of the government and what they would do did slowly change, late into the 1960's things were beginning to change under the new government but it has remained a country of severe repercussions including jail for saying things the government doesn't like. the laws passed against free speech. nothing really has changed. The latest is a proposal to not be able to say negative things about the convicts who were recruited by the Wagner group being released into society after their term of service in Ukraine (6 months) has been completed. Check out the executions of dissident russians in other countries done by the russian government
So why do you think that government wouldn't do it to the 9? Not the same people in charge but the exact same mind set
You are making a lot of assumptions. I would also not stray where you are going.
I do not think the government would or would not do it the dp9 . No more or no less if a wolf did it or a fallen tree. It's the evidence that's needed.
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None of what I posted, other than did they do it to the 9 are assumptions. they are based on research.
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"The Russian 2022 Laws Establishing War Censorship and Prohibiting Anti-War Statements and Calls for Sanctions is a group of federal laws promulgated by the Russian government during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. These laws establish administrative (Law No. 31-FZ, Law No."
"Russia’s lower house of parliament has adopted a bill that would provide effective immunity for certain crimes committed in occupied areas of Ukraine, in violation of Russia’s international legal obligations, Human Rights Watch said today.
The bill, which the State Duma adopted unanimously in its first reading on December 13, 2022, seeks to impose the Russian criminal code and code of criminal procedure in Russia-occupied areas of Donetska, Luhanska, Zaporizka, and Khersonska regions. It mandates dropping criminal cases and overturning convictions against those who committed crimes prior to September 30 while acting “in the interests of the Russian Federation” in those regions. These crimes would presumably include war crimes and grave human rights abuses, and would cover Russian officials and their proxies."
"The Bulgarian dissident died after being jabbed by an assailant on Waterloo Bridge. Like the recently poisoned Russian dissident Alexei Navalny, he was an acute irritant to his government." (this was in London he was murdered)
"Prior to the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the archival revelations, some historians estimated that the numbers killed by Stalin's regime were 20 million or higher."
still calling that post full of assumptions?
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I fail to see the link as to any cover up by some bad guys. No one has supplied any evidence of outsiders in the dp9. Everything is in site on that slope. Diaries, equipment, tent, bodies .
Вам нужно зайти в мой блог с моей версией на этом форуме "Уральская голгофа или госзаказ на ликвидацию". Там есть все доказательства, в основном косвенные, но их много и они авторитетные.
1. Показания авторитетных свидетелей Слобцова, Аскинадзи, Ю Юдина (смотри верхний видеоролик)
2. Имеются АРХИВНЫЕ документы!! Письмо из ЦК "О борьбе с антисоветскими элементами" с особым вниманием на молодежь и студенчество. Отчет-протокол, высланный из обкома в ЦК КПСС 10 марта и 27 марта о том, что группа Дятлова погибла от плохой погоды. Но еще не было закончено следствие и не были найдены последние трупы. Но Кириленко спешил отчитаться о борьбе с опасной для власти молодежью.
3.Укусы собак на лицах и руках ребят - говорят о том, что с ликвидаторами были собаки.
4. На Люде надето чужое нижнее белье и все признаки изнасилования. (смотри мою версию)
5. На перевале найдена военная обмотка, чужой фонарик, чужая фляжка ссо спиртом.
6. Многочисленные показания Юрия Юдина о том, что на ребят писались доносы: они шпионы, собираются сбежать за границу.
7. То. что во главе Свердлвской области стоял человек "глупый, хам, самодур, костолом, бульдозерного типа, злопамятный карьерист" - тоже сыграло свою роль в этой страшной трагедии.
You need to go to my blog with my version on this forum "Ural Golgotha or state order for liquidation". There is all the evidence, mostly indirect, but there are a lot of them and they are authoritative.
1. Testimony of authoritative witnesses Slobtsov, Askinaji, Yu Yudin (see the top video)
2. There are ARCHIVAL documents!! A letter from the Central Committee "On the fight against anti-Soviet elements" with special attention to youth and students. The report is a protocol sent from the regional committee to the Central Committee of the CPSU on March 10 and March 27 that Dyatlov's group died from bad weather. But the investigation has not yet been completed and the last corpses have not been found. But Kirilenko was in a hurry to report on the fight against the youth dangerous to the authorities.
3. Dog bites on the faces and hands of the guys - they say that there were dogs with the liquidators.
4. People are wearing someone else's underwear and all the signs of rape. (see my version)
5. A military winding, someone else's flashlight, someone else's flask with alcohol was found on the pass.
6. Numerous testimonies of Yuri Yudin that denunciations were written against the guys: they are spies, they are going to escape abroad.
7. The fact that the head of the Sverdlovsk region was a man "stupid, boor, tyrant, bonecracker, bulldozer type, vindictive careerist" - also played a role in this terrible tragedy
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If we do not take into account the fear of the government at that time and the absolute power they had over what people said publicly, then we really can't get an accurate picture of the incident.
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"I fail to see the link as to any cover up by some bad guys. No one has supplied any evidence of outsiders in the dp9. Everything is in site on that slope. Diaries, equipment, tent, bodies ."
in that case why are we even talking about it? Given the fact that everything is on the slope that is important to the incident, the 9 very experienced skiers not only set up in an inappropriate place but didn't set up the stove to keep warm, cut their way out of the tent (destroying their main means of survival), didn't bother to dress appropriately to walk down the slope, froze to death. end of story. because only the evidence at the site is important
and I 100% agree that all countries do this to various degrees, some are just much smarter at not making it public knowledge than others
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"The Russian 2022 Laws Establishing War Censorship and Prohibiting Anti-War Statements and Calls for Sanctions is a group of federal laws promulgated by the Russian government during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. These laws establish administrative (Law No. 31-FZ, Law No."
"Russia’s lower house of parliament has adopted a bill that would provide effective immunity for certain crimes committed in occupied areas of Ukraine, in violation of Russia’s international legal obligations, Human Rights Watch said today.
The bill, which the State Duma adopted unanimously in its first reading on December 13, 2022, seeks to impose the Russian criminal code and code of criminal procedure in Russia-occupied areas of Donetska, Luhanska, Zaporizka, and Khersonska regions. It mandates dropping criminal cases and overturning convictions against those who committed crimes prior to September 30 while acting “in the interests of the Russian Federation” in those regions. These crimes would presumably include war crimes and grave human rights abuses, and would cover Russian officials and their proxies."
"The Bulgarian dissident died after being jabbed by an assailant on Waterloo Bridge. Like the recently poisoned Russian dissident Alexei Navalny, he was an acute irritant to his government." (this was in London he was murdered)
"Prior to the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the archival revelations, some historians estimated that the numbers killed by Stalin's regime were 20 million or higher."
still calling that post full of assumptions?
Yep....
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"I fail to see the link as to any cover up by some bad guys. No one has supplied any evidence of outsiders in the dp9. Everything is in site on that slope. Diaries, equipment, tent, bodies ."
in that case why are we even talking about it? Given the fact that everything is on the slope that is important to the incident, the 9 very experienced skiers not only set up in an inappropriate place but didn't set up the stove to keep warm, cut their way out of the tent (destroying their main means of survival), didn't bother to dress appropriately to walk down the slope, froze to death. end of story. because only the evidence at the site is important
and I 100% agree that all countries do this to various degrees, some are just much smarter at not making it public knowledge than others
I'm asking for evidence . How is it an inappropriate place to pitch the tent? The stove might have got put up later that evening or it had been dismantled for the morning? The cutting of the tent and lack of clothes suggests an urgent exit.
None of it suggests trying to leave the country. The authorities knew what they dp9 were doing and where they were going. They had requested equipment from the stores . Just like they do in other countries that encourage students to take up outdoor activities . 140 plus countries do this ..... Organised and recorded....
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If we do not take into account the fear of the government at that time and the absolute power they had over what people said publicly, then we really can't get an accurate picture of the incident.
The opposite is also possibly true? If we take in to account the fear of the government at that time and project their "so called "absolute power , then surly we won't get an accurate picture of the incident if it was a natural event?
Let's compromise? We don't know what happened, the searchers and students didn't know, the government didn't know. The families don't know.
Let's stay away from bashing the political situation and using arguments that Russia or communism is bad and therefore it was the bad commies.
Let's accept that all governments are pretty much useless and get up to all-sorts of skullduggery.
We need direct evidence and not random witnesses at the time speculating. Has anyone got any?
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I'm asking for evidence . How is it an inappropriate place to pitch the tent? The stove might have got put up later that evening or it had been dismantled for the morning? The cutting of the tent and lack of clothes suggests an urgent exit.
None of it suggests trying to leave the country. The authorities knew what they dp9 were doing and where they were going. They had requested equipment from the stores . Just like they do in other countries that encourage students to take up outdoor activities . 140 plus countries do this ..... Organised and recorded....
1. Ребята не разрезали палатку. Они не сумасшедшие, чтоб разрезать свою палатку. Из палатки их выманили обманом. Они выходили тепло одетые. Оказались раздетыми, так как приказ был раздеть и заморозить. Но ребята дали серьезный отпор. Началась драка. Из-за этого травмы.
2.Разрезали палатку - ликвидаторы, чтоб она стала непригодной и чтоб ребята уж точно не могли спастись.
3. Уже в сотый раз повторяю: никто никуда бежать не собирался. Еще раз повторить???
1. The guys did not cut the tent. They're not crazy enough to cut up their tent. They were lured out of the tent by deception. They came out warmly dressed. They turned out to be undressed, as there was an order to undress and freeze. But the guys gave a serious rebuff. A fight started. Because of this injury.
2. The liquidators cut the tent so that it fell into disrepair.
3. I repeat for the hundredth time: no one was going to run anywhere. Should I do it again????
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We need direct evidence and not random witnesses at the time speculating. Has anyone got any?
Я вам назвала 7 пунктов. Авторитетные свидетели, архивные документы.. Материалы уголовного дела. С чем вы не согласны?
I've given you proof. Authoritative witnesses, archival documents.. Materials of the criminal case. What do you disagree with?
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I'm wondering, why kill someone who wanted to defect to another country? Wouldn't they be rather caught and send to a g dunno1ulag?
Sorry, made a mistake, that should have been
Wouldn't they be rather caught and send to a gulag? dunno1
Kill them because they were going to flee abroad?...It takes a month to get to the border there on skis :-) Look at the map and laugh with me at the theory. Even fugitive criminals were simply caught and put back in the colony, increasing their period of detention.
10-12 kilometers a day, it takes 4 months to get to the border. This is provided that the backpacks are not very heavy, loaded with food for three weeks. Everything is real. Any Soviet leader will believe in an escape abroad and give the order to kill the tourists. They, these members of the CPSU, constantly only dreamed of reducing the number of potential defectors
По 10-12 километров в день, до границы добираться 4 месяца. Это при условии, что рюкзаки будут не сильно тяжёлые, загружены продуктами на три недели. Всё реально. В побег за границу поверит любой советский руководитель и отдаст приказ убить туристов. Они, эти члены КПСС, постоянно только и мечтали сократить численность потенциальных перебежчиков.
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I'm asking for evidence . How is it an inappropriate place to pitch the tent? The stove might have got put up later that evening or it had been dismantled for the morning? The cutting of the tent and lack of clothes suggests an urgent exit.
None of it suggests trying to leave the country. The authorities knew what they dp9 were doing and where they were going. They had requested equipment from the stores . Just like they do in other countries that encourage students to take up outdoor activities . 140 plus countries do this ..... Organised and recorded....
1. Ребята не разрезали палатку. Они не сумасшедшие, чтоб разрезать свою палатку. Из палатки их выманили обманом. Они выходили тепло одетые. Оказались раздетыми, так как приказ был раздеть и заморозить. Но ребята дали серьезный отпор. Началась драка. Из-за этого травмы.
2.Разрезали палатку - ликвидаторы, чтоб она стала непригодной и чтоб ребята уж точно не могли спастись.
3. Уже в сотый раз повторяю: никто никуда бежать не собирался. Еще раз повторить???
1. The guys did not cut the tent. They're not crazy enough to cut up their tent. They were lured out of the tent by deception. They came out warmly dressed. They turned out to be undressed, as there was an order to undress and freeze. But the guys gave a serious rebuff. A fight started. Because of this injury.
2. The liquidators cut the tent so that it fell into disrepair.
3. I repeat for the hundredth time: no one was going to run anywhere. Should I do it again????
How were they lured out of the tent and who lured them out? What fight started and where is the evidence of the fight injuries ? Why were they not all undressed? Why did the liquidators cut the tent into disrepair? What would that achieve?
Yes please do it again.
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We need direct evidence and not random witnesses at the time speculating. Has anyone got any?
Я вам назвала 7 пунктов. Авторитетные свидетели, архивные документы.. Материалы уголовного дела. С чем вы не согласны?
I've given you proof. Authoritative witnesses, archival documents.. Materials of the criminal case. What do you disagree with?
I have not seen proof. Your proof is other people's speculation? I disagree with rape for a start. You only give other people's ramblings as far as I can see. I admit I've not read all of your data. It's difficult to be honest. You say others have your book etc but I don't understand why you are not main stream yet? Others have evaluated your theory but remain unconvinced.
I honestly don't know what you are putting forward. Here's what I think I know . You say liquidators were employed to kill the dp9 because the were reported as in going to leave the country. They were killed. An error was made as actually they were loyal students to the regime. The government closed the case because it was a mess. Is this it?
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I honestly don't know what you are putting forward. Here's what I think I know . You say liquidators were employed to kill the dp9 because the were reported as in going to leave the country. They were killed. An error was made as actually they were loyal students to the regime. The government closed the case because it was a mess. Is this it?
1. вы считаете, что самые главные свидетели: Слобцов, Аскенадзи, Ю. Юдин - несут бредни?
2. По поводу изнасилования Люды я опиралась только на Суд-мед-экспертизу.
1. Do you think that the most important witnesses: Slobtsov, Askenadzi, Yu. Yudin - carry nonsense?
2. About the rape of Luda, I relied only on the Court-medical examination.
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I have not seen proof. Your proof is other people's speculation? I disagree with rape for a start. You only give other people's ramblings as far as I can see. I admit I've not read all of your data. It's difficult to be honest. You say others have your book etc but I don't understand why you are not main stream yet? Others have evaluated your theory but remain unconvinced.
Да, скорее всего, я ближе всех подошла к истине и меня так же удивляет тот факт, что моя версия еще не стала основной. Никому не хочется признать, что тайну разгадала пенсионерка из Санкт-Петербурга. Но нужно быть честными, только идя в этом направлении - тайна будет раскрыта полностью. Нужны архивные документы, но они засекречены. И беда в том, что партийная власть не оставляла преступных письменных приказов. Нет приказа стрелять в рабочих Новочеркасска, нет приказа вводить войска в Венгрию.....
Yes, most likely, I am the closest to the truth and I am also surprised by the fact that my version has not yet become the main one. No one wants to admit that a pensioner from St. Petersburg solved the mystery. But we need to be honest, only going in this direction - the mystery will be revealed completely. We need archival documents, but they are classified. And the trouble is that the party authorities did not leave criminal written orders. There is no order to shoot at the workers of Novocherkassk, there is no order to send troops into Hungary.....
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I have not seen proof. Your proof is other people's speculation? I disagree with rape for a start. You only give other people's ramblings as far as I can see. I admit I've not read all of your data. It's difficult to be honest. You say others have your book etc but I don't understand why you are not main stream yet? Others have evaluated your theory but remain unconvinced.
Да, скорее всего, я ближе всех подошла к истине и меня так же удивляет тот факт, что моя версия еще не стала основной. Никому не хочется признать, что тайну разгадала пенсионерка из Санкт-Петербурга. Но нужно быть честными, только идя в этом направлении - тайна будет раскрыта полностью. Нужны архивные документы, но они засекречены. И беда в том, что партийная власть не оставляла преступных письменных приказов. Нет приказа стрелять в рабочих Новочеркасска, нет приказа вводить войска в Венгрию.....
Yes, most likely, I am the closest to the truth and I am also surprised by the fact that my version has not yet become the main one. No one wants to admit that a pensioner from St. Petersburg solved the mystery. But we need to be honest, only going in this direction - the mystery will be revealed completely. We need archival documents, but they are classified. And the trouble is that the party authorities did not leave criminal written orders. There is no order to shoot at the workers of Novocherkassk, there is no order to send troops into Hungary.....
I do not agree you are most likely closest to the truth. Many people claim that. Being a pensioner or from St Petersburg has little do to with anything. .I do not wish that to sound disrespectful but facts are needed.
Regarding "There is no order to shoot at the workers of Novocherkassk, there is no order to send troops into Hungary."
Probably means there is no order to do so, like wise, in the riots that appear in other parts of the world , or any shootings that happen by those with guns. No orders were given . It would most likely be done by evaluation at the time and training. Things get out of hand from time to time. People have an itchy trigger finger when things escalate.
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I honestly don't know what you are putting forward. Here's what I think I know . You say liquidators were employed to kill the dp9 because the were reported as in going to leave the country. They were killed. An error was made as actually they were loyal students to the regime. The government closed the case because it was a mess. Is this it?
1. вы считаете, что самые главные свидетели: Слобцов, Аскенадзи, Ю. Юдин - несут бредни?
2. По поводу изнасилования Люды я опиралась только на Суд-мед-экспертизу.
1. Do you think that the most important witnesses: Slobtsov, Askenadzi, Yu. Yudin - carry nonsense?
2. About the rape of Luda, I relied only on the Court-medical examination.
I do not think they carry nonsense but confusion and the same speculation as us. What is factual about their statements?
There is no evidence of rape.
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You ask a lot of questions. in my book there are simple and reliable answers to all questions. The book has over 300 pages. I can't post all the text here.
1. the guys left the tent, they were forced to leave by deception (for example, they were asked to help a wounded hunter). It has already been proven that it is impossible to walk 1.5 kilometers naked and barefoot!!! This has been proven by the best sportsmen-tourists.
2. All injuries speak of a fight: almost all the guys have traumatic brain injuries, neck injuries (from a butt hit in the Adam's apple?). take a look at the posthumous photograph of Rustik: a complete hematoma of the face, clenched fists, etc.
3. Only the liquidators could cut the tent!!! The guys were constantly sewing up their tent!!!! Check out my version in the "Order on State Liquidation" section.. .
Answer the questions here , I'm not interested in your book. You don't need all the 300 pages, just the facts.
People have walked the distance in socks , with no harm. It's been proven it's possible.
Put your facts here and forget promoting your book.
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...because it is an altogether stupid place to make a run for a border from. Now, if they were going to do something like this they:
1. Go to Ortoten
2. Make camp
3. Induce an avalanche
4. Bug out.
...because it is an altogether stupid place to make a run for a border.
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What about the aftermath for their friends and family and those that helped them escape to the utopia of the west? Would their family and friends not get thrown in to hell by the brutal regime?
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What about the aftermath for their friends and family and those that helped them escape to the utopia of the west? Would their family and friends not get thrown in to hell by the brutal regime?
Put differently, who among them was willing to throw their mother under the bus?
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What about the aftermath for their friends and family and those that helped them escape to the utopia of the west? Would their family and friends not get thrown in to hell by the brutal regime?
Put differently, who among them was willing to throw their mother under the bus?
Agree and thank you for putting it more eloquently.
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Let's assume, they wanted to defect.
It's pretty far to any border with a western country. Not taking into account, that they'd need food for quite a long time, I'm wondering:
How dense was the population of Russia in those days? Would it be possible without taking great chances, to ski the way to a border? Wouldn't they have to pass cities?
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Let's assume, they wanted to defect.
It's pretty far to any border with a western country. Not taking into account, that they'd need food for quite a long time, I'm wondering:
How dense was the population of Russia in those days? Would it be possible without taking great chances, to ski the way to a border? Wouldn't they have to pass cities?
It's a huge distance. If they planned it, why waste several days taking photos of manti tree carvings and taking photos. They had a small window to keep up the pretence . The diaries and photos show they were doing what they were doing with all innocence and intended route , up untill the date date of the incident.
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It's a huge distance. If they planned it, why waste several days taking photos of manti tree carvings and taking photos. They had a small window to keep up the pretence . The diaries and photos show they were doing what they were doing with all innocence and intended route , up untill the date date of the incident.
Они не планировали это. Еще раз повторить?
They didn't plan this. Repeat it again?
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It's a huge distance. If they planned it, why waste several days taking photos of manti tree carvings and taking photos. They had a small window to keep up the pretence . The diaries and photos show they were doing what they were doing with all innocence and intended route , up untill the date date of the incident.
Они не планировали это. Еще раз повторить?
They didn't plan this. Repeat it again?
Repeat what?
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They didn't plan anything, the denunciation was false! Repeat it again?
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They didn't plan anything, the denunciation was false! Repeat it again?
What denunciation? I need context . I do not understand.
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They didn't plan anything, the denunciation was false! Repeat it again?
What denunciation? I need context . I do not understand.
Go into reverse. Something has been lost in communication
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Are you talking about logic here? take a ruler and measure the distance to the nearest "abroad", and then take your skis and try to walk at least a kilometer through the snow-covered mountains in -30 degrees frost. “serious false (!) denunciations”???? It's really funny for me to read this.
Умеешь пользоваться линейкой? Вау! Осталось научиться пользоваться мозгами.
Do you know how to use a ruler? Wow! It remains to learn how to use brains.
I will take the hit for being stupid and not using brains. Here's where I'm at Anna and it's not coming across logical. (To stupid me at least) . Are you saying false accusations were made against the DP9 , the KGB acted on these false allegations and "liquidated them". It was then found out that the dp9 were loyal and thenpowers that be / government covered it all up?.
It's not making sense.
вот твой контекст!! троллинг зачтен!! clap1
here's your context!! trolling is credited!! clap1
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Are you talking about logic here? take a ruler and measure the distance to the nearest "abroad", and then take your skis and try to walk at least a kilometer through the snow-covered mountains in -30 degrees frost. “serious false (!) denunciations”???? It's really funny for me to read this.
Умеешь пользоваться линейкой? Вау! Осталось научиться пользоваться мозгами.
Do you know how to use a ruler? Wow! It remains to learn how to use brains.
I will take the hit for being stupid and not using brains. Here's where I'm at Anna and it's not coming across logical. (To stupid me at least) . Are you saying false accusations were made against the DP9 , the KGB acted on these false allegations and "liquidated them". It was then found out that the dp9 were loyal and thenpowers that be / government covered it all up?.
It's not making sense.
вот твой контекст!! троллинг зачтен!! clap1
here's your context!! trolling is credited!! clap1
You are mistaken regarding any accusation of trolling.
I haven't a full understanding of your evidence or what you are actually putting forward. In a nut shell, from my perspective, you are putting other people's speculation as fact. I am asking you, what is your theory, you then say , read my book.
This may be my problem and not yours. What are you saying happened to the dp9. In a short bullet point of way . I have to ask you this because I do not understand yet. As far as I understand , you say it was liquidators.
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[quote author=Missi
How dense was the population of Russia in those days? Would it be possible without taking great chances, to ski the way to a border? Wouldn't they have to pass cities?
[/quote]
They were probably of normal intelligence. Some of our contemporaries on the forum, I'm not as sure.
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[quote author=Missi
How dense was the population of Russia in those days? Would it be possible without taking great chances, to ski the way to a border? Wouldn't they have to pass cities?
They were probably of normal intelligence. Some of our contemporaries on the forum, I'm not as sure.
[/quote]
That was meant as a joke, right? In that case: lol4
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They didn't plan anything, the denunciation was false! Repeat it again?
What denunciation? I need context . I do not understand.
Go into reverse. Something has been lost in communication
They were falsely accussed. DP9 didn't plan anything and were doing what is normal to be done on such hike.
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They didn't plan anything, the denunciation was false! Repeat it again?
What denunciation? I need context . I do not understand.
Go into reverse. Something has been lost in communication
They were falsely accussed. DP9 didn't plan anything and were doing what is normal to be done on such hike.
Excellent . I was getting confused by another forum members interpretation. Well, that gives a motive at least and a reasonable and embarrassing reason to cover it up.
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Do you know how to use a ruler? Wow! It remains to learn how to use brains.
Are you not familiar with such elementary things as the map scale and the fact that you can measure the distance on the map with a ruler, and then use the scale to calculate (in your case on a calculator) the distance in kilometers to the nearest border? What a horror.
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Clarification here:
Anna is not saying that the hikers were planning to flee the country. She is saying that the Soviet authorities believed they were, so they issued an order of liquidation. Is that right, Anna?
... and, everyone, there is a line between respect and disrespect; please be careful not to cross it.
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Clarification here: Anna is not saying that the hikers were planning to flee the country. She is saying that the Soviet authorities believed they were, so they issued an order of liquidation. Is that right, Anna?... and, everyone, there is a line between respect and disrespect; please be careful not to cross it.
Да, я уже криком кричу, что туристы не собирались никуда бежать. Но власть считала их потенциальными перебежчиками из-за ложных доносов. Юрий Юдин много раз разговорил в интервью о ложных доносах, которые писал на ребят профком УПИ.
Yes, I'm already shouting at the top of my voice that the tourists were not going to run anywhere. But the authorities considered them potential defectors because of false denunciations. Yuri Yudin spoke many times in interviews about false denunciations that the UPI trade union committee filed against Dyatlov and his friends.
in the screenshot of Yudin's interview and his words: the compromising material was collected by the trade union committee of our institute... That we are spies and want to escape to the west...
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But how could anyone believe they wanted to flee to the west, when their goal was to reach Mount Otorten in the middle of the USSR? That does not make sense. It's completely illogical. False denunciation is one thing, but how could anyone believe that this hike was to defect to the west?
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Sticks and stones may break their bones, but words will never hurt them.
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But how could anyone believe they wanted to flee to the west, when their goal was to reach Mount Otorten in the middle of the USSR? That does not make sense. It's completely illogical. False denunciation is one thing, but how could anyone believe that this hike was to defect to the west?
Из-за ложных доносов в мире погибло много народу. Из-за ложного доноса был распят Иисус Христос. Как можно было верить ложным доносам??
Много людей погибло в мире из-за ложных доносов. Из-за ложного доноса Иисус Христос был распят. Почему кто-то верит ложным доносам??
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But how could anyone believe they wanted to flee to the west, when their goal was to reach Mount Otorten in the middle of the USSR? That does not make sense. It's completely illogical. False denunciation is one thing, but how could anyone believe that this hike was to defect to the west?
Из-за ложных доносов в мире погибло много народу. Из-за ложного доноса был распят Иисус Христос. Как можно было верить ложным доносам??
Много людей погибло в мире из-за ложных доносов. Из-за ложного доноса Иисус Христос был распят. Почему кто-то верит ложным доносам??
Anna, please translate this into English and re-post it.
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Many people have died in the world because of false denunciations. Because of a false denunciation, Jesus Christ was crucified. Why does anyone believe false denunciations??
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj-KF8oRBkk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj-KF8oRBkk)
Группа Дятлова погибла по ложному доносу.
Dyatlov's group died on a false denunciation
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[quote author=Missi
How dense was the population of Russia in those days? Would it be possible without taking great chances, to ski the way to a border? Wouldn't they have to pass cities?
They were probably of normal intelligence. Some of our contemporaries on the forum, I'm not as sure.
That was meant as a joke, right? In that case: lol4
[/quote]
Yup! lol2
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How dense was the population of Russia in those days? Would it be possible without taking great chances, to ski the way to a border? Wouldn't they have to pass cities?
Не пришлось бы... это все ваши фантазии и фантазии глупых партийных боссов.
No. ...it's all your fantasies and the fantasies of stupid party bosses.
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anna_pycckux
You say Yuri Yudin said this below. What was the full sentence?.
There are serious false denunciations here: they want to escape abroad, this group is "spies and the devil knows what" (words of Yuri Yudin).
Also, would the KGB not ask questions of the informer and double check the facts? Would they not do surveillance of the group and contacts?
I understand students have been part of change and political movements in all countries over the decade's but there's a lot of hiking taking place in Russia at the time with positive happy photos. There are photos of normal life and the diaries of love and ambition . Singing in railway stations, being told off by the transport police, telling stories to children of their adventure's . My point is, they were not hiding in the shadows , surly if people were following them they would see no sign of an alleged escape and use common sense?
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How dense was the population of Russia in those days? Would it be possible without taking great chances, to ski the way to a border? Wouldn't they have to pass cities?
Не пришлось бы... это все ваши фантазии и фантазии глупых партийных боссов.
No. ...it's all your fantasies and the fantasies of stupid party bosses.
What exactly is my fantasy? I don't get the context, sorry.
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Also, would the KGB not ask questions of the informer and double check the facts? Would they not do surveillance of the group and contacts? .......surly if people were following them they would see no sign of an alleged escape and use common sense?
Вы ждете от КГБ здравый смысл? Напрасно! они лишь выполняли волю КПСС.
Do you expect common sense from the KGB? In vain! they were only fulfilling the will of the CPSS.
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What exactly is my fantasy? I don't get the context, sorry.
простите, ничем не могу вам помочь....
I'm sorry, but I can't help you....
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anna_pycckux
You say Yuri Yudin said this below. What was the full sentence?.
There are serious false denunciations here: they want to escape abroad, this group is "spies and the devil knows what" (words of Yuri Yudin).
Also, would the KGB not ask questions of the informer and double check the facts? Would they not do surveillance of the group and contacts?
I understand students have been part of change and political movements in all countries over the decade's but there's a lot of hiking taking place in Russia at the time with positive happy photos. There are photos of normal life and the diaries of love and ambition . Singing in railway stations, being told off by the transport police, telling stories to children of their adventure's . My point is, they were not hiding in the shadows , surly if people were following them they would see no sign of an alleged escape and use common sense?
Also, would the KGB not ask questions of the informer and double check the facts? Would they not do surveillance of the group and contacts? .......surly if people were following them they would see no sign of an alleged escape and use common sense?
Вы ждете от КГБ здравый смысл? Напрасно! они лишь выполняли волю КПСС.
Do you expect common sense from the KGB? In vain! they were only fulfilling the will of the CPSS.
Above is my full quote. As for KGB , I don't think they were that stupid that they would kill on mass without questioning first. There has to be a modicum of truth before you go liquidising?.
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Above is my full quote. As for KGB , I don't think they were that stupid that they would kill on mass without questioning first. There has to be a modicum of truth before you go liquidising?.
КГБ выполняли приказы КПСС без обсуждения. Существует архивный документ, называется протокол 200, который подтверждает это. Жаль, но сейчас на форуме нет возможности загрузить фото. Есть так же видео-документ на русском языке. Если вас интересует - дам ссылку.
The KGB carried out the orders of the CPSU without discussion. There is an archival document called Protocol 200 that confirms this. It's a pity, but now there is no way to upload photos to the forum. There is also a video document in Russian. If you are interested, I will give you a link.
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Above is my full quote. As for KGB , I don't think they were that stupid that they would kill on mass without questioning first. There has to be a modicum of truth before you go liquidising?.
КГБ выполняли приказы КПСС без обсуждения. Существует архивный документ, называется протокол 200, который подтверждает это. Жаль, но сейчас на форуме нет возможности загрузить фото. Есть так же видео-документ на русском языке. Если вас интересует - дам ссылку.
The KGB carried out the orders of the CPSU without discussion. There is an archival document called Protocol 200 that confirms this. It's a pity, but now there is no way to upload photos to the forum. There is also a video document in Russian. If you are interested, I will give you a link.
If it's in English or can be subtitles. Why can't bwe upload photos? Surly the cpsu would want facts? Or at least integration. ?
Actually sounds a great system , I could make accusations against anyone and the cpsu tells the KGB to liquidate . We need this in the west.
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Perhaps the Russian goons did as they were bid, just not on 1079. This is just a fantasy to sell books to gullible book club members.
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Actually sounds a great system , I could make accusations against anyone and the cpsu tells the KGB to liquidate . We need this in the west.
Да, так и было бы, если б вы были в высоком руководстве КПСС и жили в середине 20 века.
Yes, it would be so if you were in the top leadership of the CPSU and lived in the middle of the 20th century.
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Perhaps the Russian goons did as they were bid, just not on 1079. This is just a fantasy to sell books to gullible book club members.
тысячи и тысячи невинных людей гибли в СССР в 30-50-е годы от ложных доносов и это не фантазия. Иисус Христос погиб по ложному доносу. не знали?
thousands and thousands of innocent people died in the USSR in the 30-50s from false denunciations, and this is not a fantasy. Jesus Christ was crucified by false denunciation. didn't you know?
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Perhaps the Russian goons did as they were bid, just not on 1079. This is just a fantasy to sell books to gullible book club members.
тысячи и тысячи невинных людей гибли в СССР в 30-50-е годы от ложных доносов и это не фантазия. Иисус Христос погиб по ложному доносу. не знали?
thousands and thousands of innocent people died in the USSR in the 30-50s from false denunciations, and this is not a fantasy. Jesus Christ was crucified by false denunciation. didn't you know?
Jesus is a different concept or context. ( Although I have a soft spot for the Jesus narrative) . We can argue that Jesus needed to be denounced in order to safe human kind. Jesus has nothing to do with the dp9. Off topic. Step back from the controversy. I'm sure there's rules on the forum..
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Jesus is a different concept or context. ( Although I have a soft spot for the Jesus narrative) . We can argue that Jesus needed to be denounced in order to safe human kind. Jesus has nothing to do with the dp9. Off topic. Step back from the controversy. I'm sure there's rules on the forum..
Речь идет о ложных доносах.
we are talking about false denunciations
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Jesus is a different concept or context. ( Although I have a soft spot for the Jesus narrative) . We can argue that Jesus needed to be denounced in order to safe human kind. Jesus has nothing to do with the dp9. Off topic. Step back from the controversy. I'm sure there's rules on the forum..
Речь идет о ложных доносах.
we are talking about false denunciations
No proof of Jesus existing. Or any denunciations. As you reference many times, fantasy.
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No proof of Jesus existing. Or any denunciations. As you reference many times, fantasy.
Наверное мы живем на разных планетах. В России есть 306 статья Уголовного Кодекса за ложный донос.
We probably live on different planets. In Russia, there is article 306 of the Criminal Code for false denunciation.
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No proof of Jesus existing. Or any denunciations. As you reference many times, fantasy.
Наверное мы живем на разных планетах. В России есть 306 статья Уголовного Кодекса за ложный донос.
We probably live on different planets. In Russia, there is article 306 of the Criminal Code for false denunciation.
Is Jesus truth or fantasy?
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What does article306 say.....out of interest.
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Is Jesus truth or fantasy?
Это все не по теме.
Есть в России журналистка Юлия Латынина. Она написала книгу "Иисус. Историческое расследование", в которой рассказывается и доказывается, что Иисус принадлежал к секте террористов.
Про 306 статью узнай сам.
This is all off topic.
There is a journalist Yulia Latynina in Russia. She wrote the book "Jesus. Historical investigation", which tells and proves that Jesus belonged to a terrorist sect.
Find out about article 306 yourself.
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Is Jesus truth or fantasy?
Это все не по теме.
Есть в России журналистка Юлия Латынина. Она написала книгу "Иисус. Историческое расследование", в которой рассказывается и доказывается, что Иисус принадлежал к секте террористов.
Про 306 статью узнай сам.
This is all off topic.
There is a journalist Yulia Latynina in Russia. She wrote the book "Jesus. Historical investigation", which tells and proves that Jesus belonged to a terrorist sect.
Find out about article 306 yourself.
You started the Jesus bit. shock1
No room for quoting article 306 then stating , "find it yourself" . Say what you mean, mean what you say. Stop leaving the guessing games.
You had a good point on the dp9 being accused of wanting to leave USSR. By some other people saying so. Please back it up.
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I would have thought that any threat passed to a security service, in this case the KGB, would need to be considered credible, and would be assessed before any action was taken, such as flying out there to murder everyone. Otherwise nobody would ever bother hiring a hitman when they can get the State to bump someone off for them in exchange for some malicious rumours.
As others have pointed out, the hikers were in the middle of Russia, and in the dead of winter. They would need a far larger food supply than they had with them to make it north, and need rifles and snares to live off the land for such an extended trek, their daily calorie intake requirement far higher during freezing weather. It would have been easy for the KGB to check this potential out by referencing copies of their inventory and hiking plans at the UPI.
Here's a list of all known defectors from the former Eastern Block. There were only 6 defections from Russia during the whole of the 1950s, and all of those were already stationed abroad and simply didn't return. Not one single defection, across any decade, involved a student. Indeed the typical age was mid-thirties upwards; time enough to have become disenfranchised with the communist system and be prepared to kiss goodbye to all contact with your family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_and_Eastern_Bloc_defectors
Of those who defected from behind the Iron Curtain it seemed to involve heading over water, across the Baltic, not trekking all the way Finland or Norway's narrow Northernmost tip.
Even if the KGB felt it worth checking out - let's say they were intrigued by Semyon paying to join this hike at the eleventh hour after quitting his job and telling suspicious colleagues he was off to make history - once arriving at 1079 by helicopter it should have been easy to establish their activities were legit from their diaries. And the fact they'd stored most of their food in a labaz showed an intention to return.
If the KGB decided to liquidate them then this same fate should have befell Yuri Yudin, and would-be 10th hiker Slavic Bienko, and if they were going to stage their deaths due to hypothermia they wouldn't risk a pathologist noting that Lyuda had been raped.
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What exactly is my fantasy? I don't get the context, sorry.
простите, ничем не могу вам помочь....
I'm sorry, but I can't help you....
I'm sure you could, if you wanted to.
I asked whether it was possible to make the way from the Otorten area to the border without meeting people and raise suspicion.
You said it was my fantasy. I didn't state anything. I was asking a question. So what do you consider fantasy here?
Yes, you stated, the hikers didn't want to defect. I understood that. And I don't think they wanted that, either.
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I asked whether it was possible to make the way from the Otorten area to the border without meeting people and raise suspicion.
You said it was my fantasy. I didn't state anything. I was asking a question. So what do you consider fantasy here?
Yes, you stated, the hikers didn't want to defect. I understood that. And I don't think they wanted that, either.
1. Все разговоры о бегстве ребят за границу - это фантазии. Эти разговоры бессмысленны. Бегство придумали враги и завистники Дятлова - стукачи и доносчики, агенты КГБ.
2. Дойти пешком из района Отортена до границы - невозможно. Если только сесть в поезд.
1. All the talk about guys running abroad is a fantasy. These conversations are meaningless. The escape was invented by Dyatlov's enemies, informants and KGB agents.
2. It is impossible to walk from the Otorten district to the border. Only by train.
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If the KGB decided to liquidate them then this same fate should have befell Yuri Yudin, and would-be 10th hiker Slavic Bienko, and if they were going to stage their deaths due to hypothermia they wouldn't risk a pathologist noting that Lyuda had been raped.
1. повторяю: ребята никуда бежать не собирались. Эти сообщения - ЛОЖНЫЕ доносы стукачей и осведомителей КГБ. Вероятно у Дятлова было много завистников и врагов в УПИ
2. Юрий Юдин не был уничтожен, наоборот, его карьера пошла в гору. Он получил квартиру в Соликамске и даже должность зам. мэра Соликамска. Есть вероятность, что он сам не желая того, предал ребят, сообщив их кгб точный маршрут туристов. Для того и вернулся со 2 Северного.
1. I repeat: the guys were not going to run anywhere. These reports are FALSE denunciations of informers and informants of the KGB. Probably, Dyatlov had many envious and enemies in the UPI
2. Yuri Yudin was not destroyed, on the contrary, his career went uphill. He got an apartment in Solikamsk and became deputy mayor of Solikamsk. There is a possibility that he unwittingly betrayed the guys by telling the KGB the exact route of tourists. That's why he came back from the 2nd North.
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I asked whether it was possible to make the way from the Otorten area to the border without meeting people and raise suspicion.
You said it was my fantasy. I didn't state anything. I was asking a question. So what do you consider fantasy here?
Yes, you stated, the hikers didn't want to defect. I understood that. And I don't think they wanted that, either.
1. Все разговоры о бегстве ребят за границу - это фантазии. Эти разговоры бессмысленны. Бегство придумали враги и завистники Дятлова - стукачи и доносчики, агенты КГБ.
2. Дойти пешком из района Отортена до границы - невозможно. Если только сесть в поезд.
1. All the talk about guys running abroad is a fantasy. These conversations are meaningless. The escape was invented by Dyatlov's enemies, informants and KGB agents.
2. It is impossible to walk from the Otorten district to the border. Only by train.
Ah, now I understand. Thanks for clarifying.
I'm wondering:
We both agree, that it is impossible to escape the USSR when starting around Otorten. I'm quite sure most people in the USSR would agree as well. That means, those denunciations are untenable. It's obvious, that they are lies.
So why, instead of keeping with the story of the hikers trying to leave the country, not just kill them and let the bodies disappear? Where's the difference to telling a story, nobody really believes anyway?
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I'm wondering:
We both agree, that it is impossible to escape the USSR when starting around Otorten. I'm quite sure most people in the USSR would agree as well. That means, those denunciations are untenable. It's obvious, that they are lies.
So why, instead of keeping with the story of the hikers trying to leave the country, not just kill them and let the bodies disappear? Where's the difference to telling a story, nobody really believes anyway?
Очень трудно иностранцам понять политику СССР того времени.
1. Система сохранялась посредством слежкой за народом. Любое подозрение на оппозицию - сурово пресекалось.
2. Власть охранялась при помощи КГБ. КГБ подключали к работе тысячи осведомителей.
3. В нашем случае на Дятлова и его друзей враги и завистники писали доносы, что они антисоветчики и шпионы. За это в СССР была смертная казнь. Судить 9 молодых людей - значит поднять шум.. Суд мог обернуться осуждением политики КПСС.
4. Убить в походе и спрятать 9 тел - по-тихому никак бы не получилось. У всех ребят была многочисленная, образованная родня. Сфальсифицировать гибель сразу всех от замерзания по вине самих туристов - это казалось прекрасным для кгб вариантом. Но не все прошло гладко.
1. The system in the USSR was maintained by monitoring people. Any suspicions of the opposition were brutally suppressed.
2. The power was guarded with the help of the KGB. Thousands of informants were involved in the work of the KGB.
3. In our case, enemies and envious people wrote denunciations of Dyatlov and his friends that they were anti-Soviets and spies. For this, the USSR had the death penalty. Judging 9 young people means making a fuss.. The trial may turn into a condemnation of the CPSU policy.
4. To kill in a campaign and hide 9 bodies - it would not work quietly in any way. All the children had many educated relatives. To stage the death of everyone at once from freezing due to the fault of the tourists themselves - it seemed to the KGB an excellent option. But not everything went smoothly.
на скриншоте интервью Ю ЮДина, в котором он рассказывает о сборе компромата на Дятлова и его друзей.
in the screenshot of the interview Yu . Yudin, in which he talks about collecting compromising material on Dyatlov and his friends.
(https://i.ibb.co/LC3W1pB/image.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Hi anna_pycckux
This what I've managed to translate from the first half of the text you present in your photo( in bold). Is this taken from the transcript of the video? Is it verified ?context is everything and is the whole transcript available?
Let's just say, the only witness of all times and peoples."
Yudin: “Yes, yes, this is all possible and more, as far as I am concerned. I was told by an acquaintance who ... compromising evidence was collected there. Compromising evidence was collected even before it officially became known that the group had disappeared there. Since the case was opened immediately upon the fact of the tragedy, all at once, it was instantly revealed. Well, everyone already knows about it. Therefore, they worked as they should, that we were all spies there, that we were there, the devil knows what, and collected compromising evidence. "Meeting through the trade union committee of our institute. This is a bunch of people, they were dumbfounded, surprised why they were collecting compromising evidence on everyone. And they rejected everything else. And they told me that we defended you there so much that God forbid. But I didn’t knew.
What are other forum members thoughts on this evidence?
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Second bit of photo. @teddy , do we have any of this on dyatlovpass archives? In english.
Navig: There, where was it protected?
Yudin: Yes, at the institute, when I was studying. Well, I was a student. Here they are, they knew everything there, and all this business, including the interrogation of these witnesses ... "(NoOO" INTERNET CENTER of the Dyatlov tragedy, 2008. Text of the conversation "CENTER for civil investigation of the Dyatlov tragedy", NAVIG with Yudin Yu. in the case of Dyatlovtsev 01.02.2008)
It was Yu. Yudin who first spoke about what he was told in the trade union committee of the institute (evaluate the right move: I am talking about what I did not give a subscription to), when he first appeared in class after the holidays.
Yuri Efimovich reported that people in civilian clothes came to the trade union committee of the institute and began to ask about the students, members of I. Dyatlov's group, collected compromising evidence, whether they were politically reliable. The employees demanded characteristics for these members of the group (Dyatlova, Kolmogorov. Yudina, Doroshenko, Dubinina. Kolevatova) Let's omit the lyrics of those who told Yuri Efimovich about the event, they say, we didn’t say anything bad about you. But the characteristics were given and are still now in one of the KGB cases about the Dyatlov group, which, I hope, are still stored in the archives. I did not make a reservation about the death of the Dyatlov group; there are at least two cases opened in different cities and with different wording.
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Hi anna_pycckux
This what I've managed to translate from the first half of the text you present in your photo( in bold). Is this taken from the transcript of the video? Is it verified ?context is everything and is the whole transcript available?
Это интервью с Ю Юдиным 2008 года. Интервью брал Александр Нечаев (НАВИГ). У него имеется аудиозапись этого интервью.
Очень важно, что с 2008 года никто кроме меня не обратил внимания на важное свидетельство про сбор компромата на ребят группы Дятлова. Даже сам НАВИГ не обратил внимания и вместо того, чтоб расспросить подробнее - перевел разговор на другую тему. По сути Ю Юдин дал нам подсказку, что тайна кроется в УПИ. Возможно, там на ребят заводилось Уголовное дело на основании доносов.
Теодора имеет авторитет в среде исследователей Свердловска и может связаться с самим Александром Нечаевым по этому поводу.
This is an interview with Yudin in 2008. The interview was conducted by Alexander Nechaev (NAVIG). He has an audio recording of this interview.
It is very important that since 2008, no one except me has paid attention to important evidence about the collection of compromising material on the guys from Dyatlov's group. Even NAVIG did not pay attention and instead of asking in more detail, he turned the conversation to another topic. In fact , Yu. Yudin hinted to us that the secret lies in UPI. Perhaps a criminal case was initiated against the guys on the basis of denunciations.
Theodora enjoys authority among Sverdlovsk researchers and can contact Alexander Nechaev himself (NAVIG) about this.
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If the KGB decided to liquidate them then this same fate should have befell Yuri Yudin, and would-be 10th hiker Slavic Bienko, and if they were going to stage their deaths due to hypothermia they wouldn't risk a pathologist noting that Lyuda had been raped.
1. повторяю: ребята никуда бежать не собирались. Эти сообщения - ЛОЖНЫЕ доносы стукачей и осведомителей КГБ. Вероятно у Дятлова было много завистников и врагов в УПИ
2. Юрий Юдин не был уничтожен, наоборот, его карьера пошла в гору. Он получил квартиру в Соликамске и даже должность зам. мэра Соликамска. Есть вероятность, что он сам не желая того, предал ребят, сообщив их кгб точный маршрут туристов. Для того и вернулся со 2 Северного.
1. I repeat: the guys were not going to run anywhere. These reports are FALSE denunciations of informers and informants of the KGB. Probably, Dyatlov had many envious and enemies in the UPI
2. Yuri Yudin was not destroyed, on the contrary, his career went uphill. He got an apartment in Solikamsk and became deputy mayor of Solikamsk. There is a possibility that he unwittingly betrayed the guys by telling the KGB the exact route of tourists. That's why he came back from the 2nd North.
1. I realise that, and even the moderator made that clarification on your behalf earlier.
What's being commented on is the incredulity that if the hikers were innocent but made the subjects of false accusations that the KGB wouldn't first assess the credibility of this outlandish claim before they flew out there to murder everyone, and rape Lyuda.
And that if they did decide to go and check things out they should have been able to quickly establish the hikers were applying themselves to their hike, not a geographically impossible defection. The KGB were a ruthless, brutal organisation, but I would credit them with at least some investigative sense.
I could see them being interested in Semyon because on paper he was acting odd, quitting a job without one to go to an investing money in this hike, but surely they'd arrest him and allow the younger students to continue with their authorised trek.
Here's yet another logic hurdle - if the KGB flew out there how did they reliably identify, from the air, the Dyatlov group as opposed to the Blinovs, who were on broadly the same trek and had originally set off only 12 hours earlier. That's a big risk, get that wrong and they'd have had to bump off two sets of hikers.
2. This is unfortunately typical of some Russians, they malign the memory of Yuri Yudin, who is sometimes cast as a coward who knew something and saved himself with a false claim of sciatica while sacrificing his comrades. Instead of a life of sorrow his was one of tortured guilt and he attempted to attone for his sins with a lifetime of research and attending DPI conventions like a Catholic to the confessional. The miniseries Pereval Dyatlova did the same, portraying him as a young man having nightmare premonitions that evil forest spirits were out to get them all.
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True! All that drama sells books and vies for a movie deal. Truth is less dramatic and there are many more truthful incidents historically to pick from. Good analysis Eurocentric.
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True! All that drama sells books and vies for a movie deal.
Да, я думаю фильм по моей версии получился бы отличный. И в свою версию я верю абсолютно. версия полностью вписывается во время 50-х. Свою версию я даже отстояла в суде!
Yes, I think the movie according to my version would be great. And I absolutely believe in my version. this version fits completely into the 50s. I even defended my version in court!
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The miniseries Pereval Dyatlova did the same, portraying him as a young man having nightmare premonitions that evil forest spirits were out to get them all.
But, in that series, Yudin did also have a nightmare of the group's tent getting caught in an avalanche--a mundane scenario that doesn't involve any extraordinary elements like evil forest spirits.
Just curious: what did you make of that axe murderer and that ring?
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The miniseries Pereval Dyatlova did the same, portraying him as a young man having nightmare premonitions that evil forest spirits were out to get them all.
But, in that series, Yudin did also have a nightmare of the group's tent getting caught in an avalanche--a mundane scenario that doesn't involve any extraordinary elements like evil forest spirits.
Just curious: what did you make of that axe murderer and that ring?
SPOILER ALERT to anyone who has not yet seen the miniseries...do not scroll down
That was all very freaky, the Nazi ring bestowing survival, immortality, on whoever wore it. The Nazi horrors were used as a painful memory of the investigator's previous experience of mass casualties, the battlefields of WW2, and as a link to the present, and directly to his love interest?
The scene I found the most disturbing, linked to that, was when the young investigator's best friend sacrificed himself by throwing his body across a grenade which had been lobbed up onto the mezzanine of a Berlin house they were searching.
He then, fuelled by rage and with flames behind him, fired a machinegun over the bannisters but then he sees it was 2 cowering kids in Nazi youth uniform, so he spares them and fires at the wall above their heads.
And of course this leads to the very emotional scene much later in the series, out in the car park where he outs himself to the (female) DPI pathologist who he has sought out, who happens to be his friend's widow, they have fallen in love and he has become a father figure to her son, having lost his own wife and child.
It was an excellent series overall, though an unsatisfying conclusion, too slavish to the inquiries, but I thought the way Yudin was portrayed as a weak man given to superstition (like one of his relatives was said to be)was completely distasteful.
I saw the lead actor recently in a pretty good Russian alien sci-fi flick called Sputnik.
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That was all very freaky, the Nazi ring bestowing survival, immortality, on whoever wore it. The Nazi horrors were used as a painful memory of the investigator's previous experience of mass casualties, the battlefields of WW2, and as a link to the present, and directly to his love interest?
На мой взгляд сюжет про Отечественную войну в сериале - лишний. Лучше бы показали УПИ, студенческую обстановку, в которой учились ребята. К сожалению тема ложного доноса в фильме не промелькнула. Но, надеюсь, найдется хороший режиссер и создаст прекрасный фильм на тему "Госзаказ на ликвидацию"
In my opinion, the plot about the Patriotic War in the series is superfluous. It would be better to show the student environment in which the guys studied. Unfortunately, the topic of false denunciation did not flash in the film. But, I hope, there will be a good director and will create a wonderful film on the topic of "State order for liquidation".
[urlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17cuXe6botc][/url]