October 25, 2021, 04:09:55 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

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11
Semyon Zolotaryov / Re: Semyon Zolotaryov
« Last post by Игорь Б. on October 18, 2021, 09:10:49 PM »
Дом в городе Лермонтов, в котором жил Золотарёв. Квартира №8 на первом этаже второго подъезда:

https://goo.gl/maps/jGEcdE1boQKT82La8
https://goo.gl/maps/Fu4kp5Z2brcXmZJi6
https://yandex.ru/maps/-/CCUiqOT2CD

Quote
Вера Ивановна (мать), переехала в город Лермонтов (рядом с Пятигорском), где на тот момент проживал Семен (ул. Патриса Лумумбы д.14. кв.8.) Семен любил заниматься садоводством, в особенности селекцией, на своей даче.
http://samlib.ru/p/piskarewa_m_l/leschenki.shtml

Школа, в которой преподавал Золотарёв:
https://yandex.ru/maps/-/CCUqZ4Gu3A
12
Semyon Zolotaryov / Re: Semyon Zolotaryov
« Last post by Игорь Б. on October 18, 2021, 11:50:15 AM »
Город Лермонтов, в котором жил Золотарёв в кинохронике 1961 года:



Есть возможность перевода субтитров.

Школа, в которой преподавал Золотарёв:
https://youtu.be/dxJZoss2r9c?t=210
13
Semyon Zolotaryov / Re: Could Zolotaryov be a saboteur?
« Last post by Игорь Б. on October 15, 2021, 08:46:59 AM »
He bit off his skin from the fingers in pain, neither swallowing it nor spitting out.
Quote
В отдельных случаях пострадавший, согревая дыханием пальцы рук, наносит самоповреждения зубами, причем степень травмы различна — от поверхностных ссадин и укушенных ран ногтевых фаланг - до отделения ногтевых пластинок и частей фаланг (Г.Е. Рубан, В.В. Кругляков, 1984).
Откушенные кусочки кожи и подкожной клетчатки выявляются на одежде трупа, губах, преддверии и полости рта, между зубами, в пищеводе и желудке.
https://sudebnaja.ru/termicheskaya-travma/287-oxlazhdenie.html

Только я думаю, что такие кусания собственных рук происходят не при согревании их дыханием, а из-за потери ими чувствительности. Замерзающего это пугает и в отчаянии он хочет заставить руки чувствовать во что бы то ни стало. Вплоть до таких травматических укусов.

Об ожогах Кривонищенко:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=106587
14
Semyon Zolotaryov / Re: Could Zolotaryov be a saboteur?
« Last post by EBE on October 15, 2021, 07:06:23 AM »
intelligence agents don't work as teachers, tour guides, or as engineers in nuclear plants.


I grew up in so called Communism of soviet type (former Czechoslovakia). Your statement is incorrect. There were multiple levels of organization in secret services, all companies and all levels of society were infiltrated. How do I know? After 1989, the lists of agents, collaborators etc. were gradually made public, so we could check the names to find out that some of our teachers, relatives etc. were collaborators. Soviet union in 1959 was probably even much worse.

So if Krivo was a KGB recruit, this may have played a role in why the group was killed. But as I wrote above, it is just a speculation and we will probably never know.

As for his burns - his toe was charred. Charring occurs after long and intense exposure to fire. You don't get charred toe just from burning clothes (which you can take off) of from touching a hot stove. If you check Krivo's morgue photo, you can see that his left foot is covered with a sock, as if to hide the severe burns. Also, his left trouser is burned/charred to the level of his knee (autopsy report), even above, based on the photos. The trousers burned on his leg, from below.

Further reading from autopsy report: "The left shin and foot are swollen. There is a burn across the entire surface of the left shin with a size of 31 x 10 cm with parchment density. In the lower third of the left shin is of a brown-black color with charred tissue and and bursting skin, then in the middle third and upper third the burn surface is bright red and light brown." "The rear of the left foot is dark brown in color with subcutaneous defects of the epidermis with a size of 10 x 4 cm. The back of the second toe is charred and the skin is dark brown in color and tight when palpated."

So his leg was severely burned from below (burning from all sides, so hot stove as a cause can be excluded), his toe also burned from below. He bit off his skin from the fingers in pain, neither swallowing it nor spitting out. In addition to that, he had injuries on his both temples, left and right, and also on the back of his head. And many other smaller injuries (swollen back of his hand, cutaneous wounds etc.). This all points to a violent death, bodies don't lie.
15
Semyon Zolotaryov / Re: Could Zolotaryov be a saboteur?
« Last post by Manti on October 14, 2021, 04:54:27 AM »
The KGB was an intelligence and security agency. Unless these were fronts, intelligence agents don't work as teachers, tour guides, or as engineers in nuclear plants.

The equivalent would be the CIA and the NSA in the US.


Maybe Zolotaryov was a retired KGB agent. Even if Krivo was an agent, he must have been in a junior rank and that means little access to sensitive information. But maybe he wasn't an agent but an engineer at a nuclear plant and had some inside information...

Someone wanted that information so bad that they mounted an operation to infiltrate Russia, track down the hikers who didn't even share the route plan with the university, torture Krivo to extract that information and then murder everyone, all the while leaving no trace.


This must have been a foreign intelligence agency, most likely from the US.But the thing is, if this was a CIA operation to gain information about the Mayak plant, or even if there was a slight suggestion that was the case, the Soviet Union wouldn't need to cover anything up and would openly blame the US.

It would be in their own domestic and also international diplomatic interests to investigate and reveal the full truth about this evil foreign power murdering 7 or 8 civilians only to get information from a KGB agent.

But if it was a CIA operation, all of this would be unnecessary. They could monitor the group with night vision goggles at night for example, wait for Krivo to emerge alone to relieve himself, and capture him without harming the others. And detain him long term either taking him abroad or in some secreted undetected CIA facility within Russia to get the most amount of information out of him because usually people take time to start talking...




Because of all of this, I think this is very unlikely. If Krivo was tortured, it wasn't because he was a KGB agent or had information about Mayak.

And that is IF he was tortured. I would like to remind about light hearted photos of Rustem posing in Krivo's burnt quilted jacket which seem to be from the day before the incident: https://dyatlovpass.com/camera-krivonischenko

So it's possible he  burning himself is completely unrelated to and predated the incident.
16
General Discussion / Refutation of the conclusions of expert Tumanov
« Last post by Игорь Б. on October 13, 2021, 02:44:18 AM »
Радио "Комсомольская Правда" / Radio "Komsomolskaya Pravda":
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=59943
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=60394

Судмедэксперт Туманов опровергает сам себя в своей статье / Forensic expert Tumanov contradicts himself in his article:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=91648

Разное / Miscellaneous:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=92884

О самоповреждениях рук у замерзающих / On self-harm of hands of the frozen:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=95223

Об ожоге на ноге Кривонищенко / About the burn on the leg of Krivonischenko:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=95337

О невозможности точного определения давности ссадин у дятловцев / When the abrasions happened can not be accurately determined:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=95314
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=95361

О длительной сохранности пятен Вишневского / On the preservation of Vishnevsky (aka death) spots:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=96097

О тёмной крови в сердце / About dark blood in the heart:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=96112

Снова радио "Комсомольская Правда" / Again radio "Komsomolskaya Pravda":
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=106586
17
Semyon Zolotaryov / Re: Could Zolotaryov be a saboteur?
« Last post by EBE on October 13, 2021, 01:18:33 AM »
Why would it be the KGB's responsibility to protect them, and from whom would they even need to be protected?   


Based on info from Mr. Kuntsevich (head of the Dyatlov foundation, died few weeks ago), Krivo and Zolotaryov could have been KGB members. Krivo was working in the Mayak nuclear facility, and definitely had some information about the Soviet nuclear program. Also, his father was quite a prominent person.

Krivo on a ski trip far away from civilization could have been a good opportunity.. but of course it is just a speculation:). I would like to point out that pathologist Eduard Tumanov claimed that Krivo was probably tortured with fire before his death (charred toe, his left trousers burned on his leg, was burned up to the middle of his thigh).
18
Non-DP Related Mysteries! / Ron Tammen
« Last post by mk on October 12, 2021, 01:03:38 PM »
Fascinating rabbit hole!

1953: College sophomore  (good student, musician, athlete) is last seen getting a set of clean sheets to change the ones on his bed which had fallen victim to a college prank.  His room is found with the light on, textbook open on desk, and bed almost made up with clean sheets (pillow case remaining).  Theories include speculations about FBI, hypnosis, amnesia, his psych professor, and much more.  A lot of thorough research carefully compiled at this site:  ronaldtammen.com

19
General Discussion / Re: Why they abandon tent, clothes and objects ?
« Last post by MDGross on October 12, 2021, 09:07:49 AM »
"• Dubinina :Dispute or opposition in Vizhay (January 25 and 26) with the sponsor (client) of the February 1 attack by the troika of mercenary killers."

Jean Daniel: What evidence do you have that Lyuda had a dispute or argument with someone in Vizhay? And why would that person then send mercenary killers after the hikers? Motive?
20
General Discussion / Re: Quick medical question
« Last post by Игорь Б. on October 11, 2021, 10:51:33 PM »
Причина не медицинская, а оптическая.
На контрасте с белым снегом кожа кажется темнее, а без снега светлее:

https://i.gifer.com/QzNm.gif

https://visa-art.ru/attachments/a/a/aa774b595f2fa33c53cfd0820ea569ea.jpg
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