Dyatlov Pass Forum

Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Олег Таймень on January 10, 2023, 07:37:51 AM

Title: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 10, 2023, 07:37:51 AM
The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group were made for ventilation by the members of the Dyatlov group themselves. Most likely they were made at Auspiya or Lozva. Without this ventilation, with such a large number of people, the tent was buried in drops of condensate at night. When the cuts were made, the balance was restored.
Разрезы в палатке группы Дятлова сделаны для вентиляции самими участниками группы Дятлова. Скорее всего их сделали ещё на Ауспии или Лозьве. Без этой вентиляции, с таким большим количеством народа,  палатка ночью утопала в каплях конденсата. Когда сделали разрезы, баланс восстановился.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: GlennM on January 10, 2023, 08:05:56 AM
This is how the cuts happened. Why? Occams razor. It is the simplest practical solution to an immediate problem.What does it mean? There was agreement and cooperation. It means the hikers were not adversaries. It means that the value of the tent for safety and comfort took precedence over hiding it from predatory creatures or imaginary assassins. Finally,,it meanw Nature is indifferent.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Manti on January 10, 2023, 02:52:23 PM
This is plausible. Either it was because of condensation or maybe another reason is that the stove was a bit too strong for such a small tent and a bit of ventilation helped.
Це правдоподібно. Чи то через конденсат, чи то через те, що піч була занадто сильною для такого маленького намету, і трохи вентиляції допомогло.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: tenne on January 10, 2023, 03:22:01 PM
The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group were made for ventilation by the members of the Dyatlov group themselves. Most likely they were made at Auspiya or Lozva. Without this ventilation, with such a large number of people, the tent was buried in drops of condensate at night. When the cuts were made, the balance was restored.
Разрезы в палатке группы Дятлова сделаны для вентиляции самими участниками группы Дятлова. Скорее всего их сделали ещё на Ауспии или Лозьве. Без этой вентиляции, с таким большим количеством народа,  палатка ночью утопала в каплях конденсата. Когда сделали разрезы, баланс восстановился.

Do you think these cuts were made previous to the tent being put up on the slope?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Игорь Б. on January 10, 2023, 05:48:49 PM
Разрезы в палатке группы Дятлова сделаны для вентиляции самими участниками группы Дятлова.
Вы не подозреваете как вы правы.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 10, 2023, 09:52:47 PM
Разрезы в палатке группы Дятлова сделаны для вентиляции самими участниками группы Дятлова.
Вы не подозреваете как вы правы.
Подколол?
Pinned?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Игорь Б. on January 10, 2023, 10:29:47 PM
Нисколько.
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=52527
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=68239

Quote
Девять человек начинают беспорядочно, в несколько ножей резать и рвать скаты на уровне голов с одной целью - глотнуть свежего воздуха
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=47286
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 10, 2023, 10:39:25 PM
Нисколько.

Остапа несло? Игорь, ну Вы же такая умница. Ну что Вы не способны сообразить другую и более удачную версию?
Просто для разнообразия, чтоб потренировать эрудицию? Тема Перевала Дятлова - это тема приумножения эрудиции. И это не круг. Это - спираль.
Ostap carried? Igor, well, you are such a smart person. Well, why are you not able to think of another and more successful version?
Just for a change, to practice erudition? The theme of the Dyatlov Pass is the theme of increasing erudition. And it's not a circle. This is a spiral.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Зайцев on January 10, 2023, 10:53:45 PM
Нисколько.

Остапа несло? Игорь, ну Вы же такая умница. Ну что Вы не способны сообразить другую и более удачную версию?
Просто для разнообразия, чтоб потренировать эрудицию? Тема Перевала Дятлова - это тема приумножения эрудиции. И это не круг. Это - спираль.
Ostap carried? Igor, well, you are such a smart person. Well, why are you not able to think of another and more successful version?
Just for a change, to practice erudition? The theme of the Dyatlov Pass is the theme of increasing erudition. And it's not a circle. This is a spiral.
А зачем Игорю другая версия ? Он может эту версию разместить на forum.zoologist.ru и разом поставить на колени всех зоологов русскоязычного пространства. Как говорится, выбить стул у светил науки, уровня Дробышевского. Вылить им ушат ледяной воды на голову. Пожалуй, я сам это сделаю. Зарегистрируюсь и выложу туда его версию
Why does Igor need another version? He can post this version on forum.zoologist.ru and immediately bring all zoologists of the Russian-speaking space to their knees. As they say, knock out a chair from the luminaries of science, the level of Drobyshevsky. Pour a tub of ice water over their heads. Perhaps I'll do it myself. I'll sign up and post it there.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 10, 2023, 11:01:30 PM
Нисколько.

Остапа несло? Игорь, ну Вы же такая умница. Ну что Вы не способны сообразить другую и более удачную версию?
Просто для разнообразия, чтоб потренировать эрудицию? Тема Перевала Дятлова - это тема приумножения эрудиции. И это не круг. Это - спираль.
Ostap carried? Igor, well, you are such a smart person. Well, why are you not able to think of another and more successful version?
Just for a change, to practice erudition? The theme of the Dyatlov Pass is the theme of increasing erudition. And it's not a circle. This is a spiral.
А зачем Игорю другая версия ? Он может эту версию разместить на forum.zoologist.ru и разом поставить на колени всех зоологов русскоязычного пространства. Как говорится, выбить стул у светил науки, уровня Дробышевского. Вылить им ушат ледяной воды на голову. Пожалуй, я сам это сделаю. Зарегистрируюсь и выложу туда его версию
Why does Igor need another version? He can post this version on forum.zoologist.ru and immediately bring all zoologists of the Russian-speaking space to their knees. As they say, knock out a chair from the luminaries of science, the level of Drobyshevsky. Pour a tub of ice water over their heads. Perhaps I'll do it myself. I'll sign up and post it there.
Зайцев, ну Вы-то ровно такое же чудо мужской непокобелимости. И Вы тоже - ни на шаг в сторону от своей очень маловероятной версии.
Мужчины вообще ленивые. Одно что-нибудь сподобятся сочинить и всё. Типа - ого какой я герой. Где моя пальма и где мои лавры.
Zaitsev, well, you are exactly the same miracle of male invincibility. And you, too, are not a step away from your very unlikely version.
Men are generally lazy. They can compose one thing and that's it. Like, wow, what a hero I am. Where is my palm tree and where are my laurels.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 10, 2023, 11:17:49 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/FVZ5Kn8/Screenshot-17.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q5qNdxm)

(https://i.ibb.co/jhJgKPP/Screenshot-18.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G7Hcw44)

(https://i.ibb.co/phX8Cbt/Screenshot-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2ZKQXWD)

(https://i.ibb.co/yBQ3yDF/Screenshot-20.jpg) (https://ibb.co/93rMTJH)
Where does it come from
Since childhood, we all know the effect when you breathe on a cold window, and it starts to fog up. Why is this happening? Room air, having entered our lungs, is heated and saturated with water vapor to a relative humidity of 100% (that is, it absorbs the maximum amount of water that it can carry at the current temperature). When exhaling, in contact with the cold surface of the glass, the air cools down, and its ability to retain water decreases sharply. Those water particles that can no longer be held in the air are deposited on the glass in the form of small droplets of condensate.
For the same reason, condensation also forms in the tent. We breathe, heating and saturating the internal air with water vapor. If it is cool outside, then this air, in contact with the inner surface of the tent, cools and leaves part of the excess moisture in the form of dew. For reference, the average person “evaporates” (loses through the breath and through the skin) about 200-300 g of water per night. So, on cold nights, the formation of condensation inside the tent is an inevitable physical phenomenon.
How to deal with it
First of all, it must be said that condensation in a two-layer tent is not such a serious cause of discomfort. Drops are formed on the outer tent and safely roll down on its surface to the ground, without affecting us and our belongings in any way. The only hassle is to dry the tent in the morning before putting it in a backpack. However, sometimes there are still moments when gusts of wind begin to flap the wet awning and shake off drops of water inside the tent. But these splashes are more of a nuisance than a real threat of getting things wet. At the same time, for single-layer tents, condensation is a real headache, because everything that you “breathed” by morning ends up on the floor and on the walls, next to your sleeping bag.
The only effective way we can combat condensation is to reduce the humidity inside the tent by ventilating it with drier outside air. There is a ventilation system for this.
It allows the tent to blow through with the wind. But, most importantly, it works quite effectively even in its complete absence, due to an effect similar to that occurring in a chimney.
Depending on the specific model of the tent, the ventilation design may differ, but in general there are several general rules that ensure its effectiveness
The vents should be positioned as high as possible (to ensure the best vertical air movement).
The edge of the outer awning is raised high above the ground. Winter tents are made with an awning that reaches ground level or is equipped with a storm skirt. In conditions of strong winds, this is justified, but in a quiet summer camp in such tents, most of the condensate accumulates (it is partly treated by turning up the skirt and partially unbuttoning the entrances).
The ventilation windows can be adjusted to increase or decrease the air flow depending on the weather and personal preference. In windy weather, close. In windless - open. But, in any case, we must remember that the tent needs to be ventilated not only when it is hot, but, paradoxically, also on cold nights in order to minimize the formation of condensate.
However, I repeat, there are conditions when even with fully open ventilation it is impossible to avoid the appearance of condensate. If the humidity of the outdoor air approaches 100%, then it is no longer able to somehow dilute and dry the internal atmosphere of the tent. So drops that form on the inside of the awning during fog or during rain are quite normal (it is often mistaken for tent leakage, but this is rarely true).
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 10, 2023, 11:21:57 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/Csdv00F/Screenshot-21.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 10, 2023, 11:28:19 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/Np5vGdk/Screenshot-22.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nf9GKNV)

(https://i.ibb.co/17KJcWB/Screenshot-23.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8N24kZG)

(https://i.ibb.co/9TB1vWK/Screenshot-24.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d2XVcDC)

(https://i.ibb.co/Ph2dmzP/Screenshot-25.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6PKknJT)
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Игорь Б. on January 10, 2023, 11:42:15 PM
В палатке были две огромные "форточки":
1. Вход на клевантах
2. Отверстие для печной трубы (печка подвешена не была)

Дятловцы наоборот, зашивали всякие отверстия.

Ну что Вы не способны сообразить другую и более удачную версию?
Куда уж удачней?

Quote
Tent got sprayed by skunk, inside included, decided to cut losses and dumped tent and left, anything I could of done to salvage it?

Dog barked at a skunk the skunk sprayed my tent and dog. This happened at 1am, decided to just pack everything that didn't smell too bad into the car and trash the rest. In retrospect could I have gotten the stink out of the tent?

It was more the smell was so bad just being near it made my gf puke.

Quote
Палатка была обрызгана скунсом, в том числе и внутри. Чтобы не потерять всё, бросил палатку и ушел. А что я мог сделать, чтобы сохранить ее?

Собака залаяла на скунса, скунс обрызгал и палатку и собаку. Произошло это в час ночи. Собрал в машину только то, что не сильно пахло, а остальное выкинул. Теперь думаю, мог ли я как-нибудь избавится от вони в палатке?

И ещё, запах был настолько ужасен, что мою девушку стошнило от одного только нахождения рядом.
https://www.reddit.com/r/camping/comments/2crd8x/tent_got_sprayed_by_skunk_inside_included_decided/

Напомню, что у троих дятловцев желудки были пусты:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=50625
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 10, 2023, 11:51:26 PM
В палатке были две огромные "форточки":
1. Вход на клевантах
2. Отверстие для печной трубы (печка подвешена не была)


Как думаете, почему в зимних палатках делают вентиляционные отверстия в обязательном порядке, несмотря и на наличие входа ( чаще двух ) и наличия разделки для печной трубы ?
Why do you think ventilation holes are made in winter tents without fail, despite the presence of an entrance (more often than two) and the presence of a cut for a chimney?
Edit post
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Игорь Б. on January 11, 2023, 12:00:09 AM
Из-за недышащей ткани и для доступа кислорода для печки?

У дятловцев была летняя палатка с паропроницаемой простыней у входа, клевантами (не на молнии) и пустым отверстием (рукавом) для трубы. Воздуха хоть отбавляй.
Кстати, углекислый газ тяжелее воздуха и опускается вниз.

Кроме того, после установки палатки и происшествием прошло совсем немного времени, т.к. обледенением следов-столбиков доказано, что происшествие случилось с 13 до 15 часов. После 15 часов подтаивание снега в следах стало невозможным из-за похолодания.

Однако, Вы опять не подозреваете как вы правы.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 12:02:40 AM
Куда уж удачней?
Ну Вы же сами рубите свою же ветку версии - именно росомахой. Потому что она падальщик. Потому что она по свидетельству Шешкина - ест трупы за милую душу.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-263-back.jpg)
Росомахи - очень неутомимые, настойчивые и отважные животины. Будь она на склоне - она бы далеко не ушла и кружила как акула поблизости. И пришла бы на готовые в скорости трупы просто по запаху.
У Вас дырка в версии - прямо в самом начале.

Well, you yourself are cutting your own branch of the version - with the wolverine. Because she's a scavenger. Because, according to Sheshshkin, she eats corpses for a sweet soul.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-263-back.jpg)
Wolverines are very tireless, persistent and courageous animals. If she were on a slope, she would not have gone far and circled like a shark nearby. And I would come to the corpses ready in speed just by the smell.
You have a hole in the version - right at the very beginning.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Ziljoe on January 11, 2023, 12:17:05 AM
Куда уж удачней?
Ну Вы же сами рубите свою же ветку версии - именно росомахой. Потому что она падальщик. Потому что она по свидетельству Шешкина - ест трупы за милую душу.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-263-back.jpg)
Росомахи - очень неутомимые, настойчивые и отважные животины. Будь она на склоне - она бы далеко не ушла и кружила как акула поблизости. И пришла бы на готовые в скорости трупы просто по запаху.
У Вас дырка в версии - прямо в самом начале.

Well, you yourself are cutting your own branch of the version - with the wolverine. Because she's a scavenger. Because, according to Sheshshkin, she eats corpses for a sweet soul.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-263-back.jpg)
Wolverines are very tireless, persistent and courageous animals. If she were on a slope, she would not have gone far and circled like a shark nearby. And I would come to the corpses ready in speed just by the smell.
You have a hole in the version - right at the very beginning.

As I understand it, or how little we understand of the Wolverines. The DP9 were not corpses , they were walking with the smell. The spray was the defence smell only, not the smell to mark it's food cache.  How did she not go far?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Игорь Б. on January 11, 2023, 12:21:27 AM
Будь она на склоне - она бы далеко не ушла и кружила как акула поблизости. И пришла бы на готовые в скорости трупы просто по запаху.
Вам надо почитать "Типичные заблуждения о росомахе и её химическом оружии". В частности, зачем росомахе разные железы - маркировочные и боевые.

И потом, версия с росомахой с 2014 года уже не версия, а доказанный факт.
Вам надо почитать "Все доказательства гибели группы Дятлова от "химического оружия" росомахи".

И ещё, для обсуждения росомахи есть специальная тема:
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=390.0
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 12:33:28 AM

As I understand it, or how little we understand of the Wolverines. The DP9 were not corpses , they were walking with the smell. The spray was the defence smell only, not the smell to mark it's food cache.  How did she not go far?
Сэр Ziljoe, вся истина в том, что февраль на Северном Урале - один из самых голодных месяцев года. Пищи в доступе - очень мало. Если росомаха встала на запах пищи, а люди - это тоже пища: то она с этого пути не свернет и не откажется. Росомаха - это акула безводного пространства. Она обладает отличным обонянием и умением дождаться и добиться победы.  После того как туристы замерзли на смерть  - они представляли для неё бесплатную и неопасную кормушку

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bclFe9-068

Sir Ziljoe, the whole truth is that February in the Northern Urals is one of the hungriest months of the year. There is very little food available. If the wolverine got up on the smell of food, and people are also food, then it will not turn off this path and will not refuse. Wolverine is a shark of the waterless space. She has an excellent sense of smell and the ability to wait and achieve victory. After the tourists froze to death, they presented a free and harmless feeder for her.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 12:51:12 AM

И потом, версия с росомахой с 2014 года уже не версия, а доказанный факт.
Вам надо почитать "Все доказательства гибели группы Дятлова от "химического оружия" росомахи".

И ещё, для обсуждения росомахи есть специальная тема:
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=390.0
Игорь, про доказанность факта - это по воде вилами. Ни один из трупов туристов не поеден росомахой. Ни один. Всё. Версию можно бросать в костер инквизиции.
Igor, about proving a fact - this is a pitchfork in the water. None of the tourist corpses have been eaten by the wolverine. No one. Everything. The version can be thrown into the fire of the Inquisition.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Игорь Б. on January 11, 2023, 12:59:32 AM
Ни один из трупов туристов не поеден росомахой. Ни один. Всё.

Вам надо почитать "Типичные заблуждения о росомахе и её химическом оружии".

И ещё, для обсуждения росомахи есть специальная тема:
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=390.0
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 01:27:39 AM
Вам надо почитать "Типичные заблуждения о росомахе и её химическом оружии".

А Вам надо почитать - "Росомаха в пищевой цепи"
And you need to read - "Wolverine in the food chain"
https://animaljaws.com/fakty-o-rosomaxe-ili-mozhet-li-rosomaxa-ubit-cheloveka.html
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Интересные случаи, связанные с росомахой
Росомаха преследовала мужчину на Аляске Это был 38-летний Крейг Джонсон, который в течении трех дней на Аляске пробыл на морозе. Он отправился в поездку, чтобы посетить свою семью на праздники и это путешествие ему надолго запомнилось. 15 декабря Джонсон был на полпути своей 130-киллометровой поездки из города Уэйнрайт в Барроу, когда его снегоход начал тонуть в морском льду. Ледяная вода была ему уже по грудь, когда ему каким-то образом удалось выбраться из воды. Несмотря на промокшую одежду, он начал свой 50-километровый поход, чтобы найти помощь. По пути росомаха взяла его след и начала преследовать его по всему ледяному простору. Джонсон знал о свирепости этого хищника и о своей уязвимости. Ему казалось, что животное просто играется с ним, ждет удачного момента, чтобы напасть на него. Он часто слышал, как она скребется когтями о лед. После предупредительных выстрелов животное не ушло прочь, Джонсон был вынужден защищаться палкой.

Ну и ни минуты не сомневаясь в словах манси Шешкина
Well, not for a minute without doubting the words of Mansi Sheshkin
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-263-back.jpg)

https://mir-znaniy.com/pitanie-rosomahi/
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Игорь Б. on January 11, 2023, 02:18:33 AM
Преследование хищником одинокой ослабленной жертвы - обычное дело. Вспомните рассказ Джека Лондона "Любовь к жизни".

Только почему вы решили, что девять здоровых молодых комсомольцев похожи на одинокую ослабленную жертву? Откуда росомахе знать, что они замёрзнут?

Росомаха крайне редко использует своё химическое оружие.
Химическое оружие она применяет только когда оказывается в безвыходном положении и напугана.
Таким безвыходным положением для неё стал простынный полог у входа внутри палатки. Он помешал ей сразу найти выход из палатки и она испугалась.

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"А пальнуть она может не только когда обороняется от врага, но и просто от стресса, сильно испугавшись. Это у нее происходит самопроизвольно."
http://irkipedia.ru/content/rosomaha_malenkiy_medved

Так чего ей ждать от девятерых врагов, которых она испугалась в буквальном смысле до усрачки?

В этом видео росомаха применяет своё химическое оружие против напавших на неё волков:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110088

Теперь она будет ждать когда они замёрзнут и их можно будет съесть?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Ziljoe on January 11, 2023, 02:24:32 AM

As I understand it, or how little we understand of the Wolverines. The DP9 were not corpses , they were walking with the smell. The spray was the defence smell only, not the smell to mark it's food cache.  How did she not go far?
Сэр Ziljoe, вся истина в том, что февраль на Северном Урале - один из самых голодных месяцев года. Пищи в доступе - очень мало. Если росомаха встала на запах пищи, а люди - это тоже пища: то она с этого пути не свернет и не откажется. Росомаха - это акула безводного пространства. Она обладает отличным обонянием и умением дождаться и добиться победы.  После того как туристы замерзли на смерть  - они представляли для неё бесплатную и неопасную кормушку

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bclFe9-068

Sir Ziljoe, the whole truth is that February in the Northern Urals is one of the hungriest months of the year. There is very little food available. If the wolverine got up on the smell of food, and people are also food, then it will not turn off this path and will not refuse. Wolverine is a shark of the waterless space. She has an excellent sense of smell and the ability to wait and achieve victory. After the tourists froze to death, they presented a free and harmless feeder for her.

Hi Почемучка

I am deeply interested in the Wolverine. There are a number of over lapping links to support it.

If you can turn assumptions  off to the theory before all of Igor b's work has been read by you I would be for ever grateful.

I respect your analysis of things and it would be good for you to comment. Igor b's work is substantial as is yours that also interests me.

To apply some logic, although mine is amateurish , Wolverine's and other beasts live in the area. No animal , scavenged the remains of the hikers. It would be logical to think that a wolf or Wolverine would have wandered across a free frozen lunch in those 3 weeks, especially in the poor month of February. Yet there is no sign of animal scavenging .

The argument put forward is that the Wolverine sprayed it's defense spray. This spray would keep other beasts away.

The Wolverine was not there to fight the tourists, only following its nose to investigate the smell of food in the tent. A free lunch is a free lunch.

If at that point , all 9 hikers and the Wolverine were caught in the tent , in a confined space , it is conceivable that a certain amount of Chao's occurred. If the Wolverine sprayed the chemical in that space of the tent , then all things are now an irritant. To the hikers and the Wolverine and any future beast that walks by.

The argument is that the beast went it's way to other hunting grounds deciding the fight was too big. The hikers are left with concentrated spray in their eyes, throats and lungs. Blinded , choking with no understanding of what they have breathed in the hikers cut their way out, there is no fight of flesh or combat.

To approach the tent elevates their symptoms, a decision must be made.

All this does depend on how bad and toxic this spray is but we have a number of statements and testimonies that give us a nod in that direction.

We have the unusual behaviour of the search dog's on leaving the helicopter and approaching the tent. This includes cowering , tail between legs . ( This was such unusual behaviour that it is recorded)

We have the dilated pupils in the autopsies that imply toxin's .

We have reports of yellow staining on clothes retrieved and a skin reaction from the searcher at the ravine.

I question some of the concept of wolverine but when I look at the evidence in its entirety , it is a strong case.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 02:45:13 AM

Только почему вы решили, что девять здоровых молодых комсомольцев похожи на одинокую ослабленную жертву? Откуда росомахе знать, что они замёрзнут?

Потому что у росомахи как Вы верно намекнули - мозги медведя. А медведь - это такой однозначный интеллектуал. Росомаха по Вашей версии - вышла на добычу. На мясо с её понимания. Она в выше укрепленном видео - яростно добывает северного оленя. Он куда тяжелее чем человек. Росомаха в рассказанной выше истории - преследовала человека, надеясь что он перестанет бороться за жизнь.
Пока у неё будет хватать сил и если не возникнет альтернатива дичи - она будет строить планы как разделить и властвовать над этим человеческим стадом.
Может кто-то послабее - от него отобьется. По человеческим понятиям - пойдет в туалет. По росомашьим понятиям - вычленится из группы и станет одиночкою. Причем уязвимым одиночкою. Надо подождать. Люди для неё - тоже как стадо оленей. Только еще более беззащитные. И голод который не тетка - заставит её быть рядом. И её ожидания - скоро вознаградятся. С человеческим стадом что-то случилось и оно все умерло. Много пищи. Пируй хоть до весны.

Because the wolverine, as you rightly hinted, has the brains of a bear. And the bear is such an unambiguous intellectual. Wolverine, according to your version, went to prey. On meat with her understanding. She is in the video above fortified - furiously preying on reindeer. He is much heavier than a man. Wolverine in the story told above - pursued a man, hoping that he would stop fighting for his life.
As long as she has enough strength and if there is no alternative to game, she will make plans to divide and rule over this human herd.

Maybe someone weaker will fight him off. According to human concepts - go to the toilet. According to wolverine concepts, he will be isolated from the group and become a loner. And a vulnerable loner. We must wait. People for her are also like a herd of deer. Only more defenseless. And the hunger that is not an aunt will force her to be there. And her expectations will soon be rewarded. Something happened to the human herd and it all died. Lots of food. Feast at least until spring.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Ziljoe on January 11, 2023, 02:54:03 AM

Только почему вы решили, что девять здоровых молодых комсомольцев похожи на одинокую ослабленную жертву? Откуда росомахе знать, что они замёрзнут?

Потому что у росомахи как Вы верно намекнули - мозги медведя. А медведь - это такой однозначный интеллектуал. Росомаха по Вашей версии - вышла на добычу. На мясо с её понимания. Она в выше укрепленном видео - яростно добывает северного оленя. Он куда тяжелее чем человек. Росомаха в рассказанной выше истории - преследовала человека, надеясь что он перестанет бороться за жизнь.
Пока у неё будет хватать сил и если не возникнет альтернатива дичи - она будет строить планы как разделить и властвовать над этим человеческим стадом.

Because the wolverine, as you rightly hinted, has the brains of a bear. And the bear is such an unambiguous intellectual. Wolverine, according to your version, went to prey. On meat with her understanding. She is in the video above fortified - furiously preying on reindeer. He is much heavier than a man. Wolverine in the story told above - pursued a man, hoping that he would stop fighting for his life.
As long as she has enough strength and if there is no alternative to game, she will make plans to divide and rule over this human herd.
the Wolverine went to investigate the smell of ham and will mostly eat the scraps.  The Wolverine didn't go for a fight to kill for food, just being nosey I would guess. 
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 02:54:37 AM

Hi Почемучка

I am deeply interested in the Wolverine. There are a number of over lapping links to support it.

If you can turn assumptions  off to the theory before all of Igor b's work has been read by you I would be for ever grateful.

I respect your analysis of things and it would be good for you to comment. Igor b's work is substantial as is yours that also interests me.

To apply some logic, although mine is amateurish , Wolverine's and other beasts live in the area. No animal , scavenged the remains of the hikers. It would be logical to think that a wolf or Wolverine would have wandered across a free frozen lunch in those 3 weeks, especially in the poor month of February. Yet there is no sign of animal scavenging .

The argument put forward is that the Wolverine sprayed it's defense spray. This spray would keep other beasts away.

The Wolverine was not there to fight the tourists, only following its nose to investigate the smell of food in the tent. A free lunch is a free lunch.

If at that point , all 9 hikers and the Wolverine were caught in the tent , in a confined space , it is conceivable that a certain amount of Chao's occurred. If the Wolverine sprayed the chemical in that space of the tent , then all things are now an irritant. To the hikers and the Wolverine and any future beast that walks by.

The argument is that the beast went it's way to other hunting grounds deciding the fight was too big. The hikers are left with concentrated spray in their eyes, throats and lungs. Blinded , choking with no understanding of what they have breathed in the hikers cut their way out, there is no fight of flesh or combat.

To approach the tent elevates their symptoms, a decision must be made.

All this does depend on how bad and toxic this spray is but we have a number of statements and testimonies that give us a nod in that direction.

We have the unusual behaviour of the search dog's on leaving the helicopter and approaching the tent. This includes cowering , tail between legs . ( This was such unusual behaviour that it is recorded)

We have the dilated pupils in the autopsies that imply toxin's .

We have reports of yellow staining on clothes retrieved and a skin reaction from the searcher at the ravine.

I question some of the concept of wolverine but when I look at the evidence in its entirety , it is a strong case.

Я не пытаюсь изучать версии, у которых дырка в самом начале. В чем эта черная дыра - я пояснила.
Если бы там участвовала росомаха - то трупы туристов были ею поедены. Потому что февраль, лютая зимища,  безжизненные склоны гор, тяжелая охота на живую дичь.

I don't try to learn versions that have a hole at the very beginning. What is this black hole - I explained.
If a wolverine had participated there, then the corpses of tourists would have been eaten by her. Because February, fierce winters, lifeless mountain slopes, heavy hunting for live game.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 02:57:09 AM

the Wolverine went to investigate the smell of ham and will mostly eat the scraps.  The Wolverine didn't go for a fight to kill for food, just being nosey I would guess.
Там местность не даром получила название безжизненной горы. Там дичь может быть только в виде оленей одомашненных и людей их пасущих. Росомаха все это считает пищею. По склону 1079 проходит оленья традиционная тропа перегона. Ей там пахнет пищею и она проверяет эту местность. На наличие подарка. Я опять привожу в который раз знатока охотника-манси Шешкина

(https://i.ibb.co/318tDmm/image.png)
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Кода мы были на охоте, то я видел следы росомах и волков. Росомахи могут есть мертвых оленей и людей. Но волки мертвых оленей не едят.

Шешкин видел следы многих росомах. То есть они там каждая курсирует свой маршрут и принюхивается. Ищет запах пищи. Росомахе все равно чем пахнет еда. Она и летом не брезгует падалью, а там уж такой запах. Разве ей отобьет аппетит свой собственный запах и запах сородича?

There, the area is not in vain called a lifeless mountain. There, game can only be in the form of domesticated deer and people herding them. Wolverine considers all this food. On the slope 1079 there is a traditional reindeer trail. She smells like food there and she checks the area. For a gift. I again bring once again the connoisseur of the Mansi hunter Sheshkin

(https://i.ibb.co/318tDmm/image.png)
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When we were hunting, I saw traces of wolverines and wolves. Wolverines can eat dead deer and humans. But wolves don't eat dead deer.

Sheshkin saw traces of many wolverines. That is, they each ply their own route there and sniff. Looking for the smell of food. Wolverine doesn't care what the food smells like. She does not disdain carrion even in the summer, and there is already such a smell. Will her own smell and the smell of a relative beat off her appetite?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Ziljoe on January 11, 2023, 03:12:10 AM

the Wolverine went to investigate the smell of ham and will mostly eat the scraps.  The Wolverine didn't go for a fight to kill for food, just being nosey I would guess.
Там местность не даром получила название безжизненной горы. Там дичь может быть только в виде оленей одомашненных и людей их пасущих. Росомаха все это считает пищею.

"Wolverines are ferocious predators that prey mostly on mammals such as rabbits and rodents. They are also scavengers, eating the carrion (carcasses) of large animals such as caribou, deer, and elk to help them through the winter when other food is scarce."

They roam around 15 to 20 miles a day. They will fight bears and wolves and take down a dear when needed.

Igor is not suggesting the hikers were being hunted as food. The Wolverine just got into the tent and got stuck. There are statements to Wolverines doing this in the past. Even waking up a sleeping hiker by licking the face.

The Wolverine will maybe kill a lone moose/ elk for food . But it won't attack a pack of wolves, humans .
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 03:05:24 AM

the Wolverine went to investigate the smell of ham and will mostly eat the scraps.  The Wolverine didn't go for a fight to kill for food, just being nosey I would guess.
Там местность не даром получила название безжизненной горы. Там дичь может быть только в виде оленей одомашненных и людей их пасущих. Росомаха все это считает пищею.

"Wolverines are ferocious predators that prey mostly on mammals such as rabbits and rodents. They are also scavengers, eating the carrion (carcasses) of large animals such as caribou, deer, and elk to help them through the winter when other food is scarce."

They roam around 15 to 20 miles a day. They will fight bears and wolves and take down a dear when needed.

Igor is not suggesting the hikers were being hunted as food. The Wolverine just got into the tent and got stuck. There are statements to Wolverines doing this in the past. Even waking up a sleeping hiker by licking the face.

The Wolverine will maybe kill a lone moose/ elk for food . But it won't attack a pack of wolves, humans .

Если Вы очень хотите кушать и готовы от голода съесть слона - это вряд ли любопытство. В холодное время года все любопытство определяет - голод. Животные - очень рационально сделанные существа. Они не как человек. Тот может убивать - совершенно не из чувства голода. Все любопытство животных, их интерес к кому-то и чему-то - диктуют простые инстинкты. Хочу жрать - ищу еду. Наелся - ищу логово для отдохнуть.

If you really want to eat and are ready to eat an elephant from hunger, this is hardly curiosity. In the cold season, all curiosity determines - hunger. Animals are very rationally made creatures. They are not like a person. He can kill - not at all out of hunger. All the curiosity of animals, their interest in someone and something - is dictated by simple instincts. I want to eat - I'm looking for food. I'm full - I'm looking for a lair to rest.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Ziljoe on January 11, 2023, 03:12:40 AM

the Wolverine went to investigate the smell of ham and will mostly eat the scraps.  The Wolverine didn't go for a fight to kill for food, just being nosey I would guess.
Там местность не даром получила название безжизненной горы. Там дичь может быть только в виде оленей одомашненных и людей их пасущих. Росомаха все это считает пищею.

"Wolverines are ferocious predators that prey mostly on mammals such as rabbits and rodents. They are also scavengers, eating the carrion (carcasses) of large animals such as caribou, deer, and elk to help them through the winter when other food is scarce."

They roam around 15 to 20 miles a day. They will fight bears and wolves and take down a dear when needed.

Igor is not suggesting the hikers were being hunted as food. The Wolverine just got into the tent and got stuck. There are statements to Wolverines doing this in the past. Even waking up a sleeping hiker by licking the face.

The Wolverine will maybe kill a lone moose/ elk for food . But it won't attack a pack of wolves, humans .

Если Вы очень хотите кушать и готовы от голода съесть слона - это вряд ли любопытство. В холодное время года все любопытство определяет - голод. Животные - очень рационально сделанные существа. Они не как человек. Тот может убивать - совершенно не из чувства голода. Все любопытство животных. их интерес к кому-то и чему-то - диктуют простые инстинкты. Хочу жрать - ищу еду. Наелся - ищу логово для отдохнуть.

If you really want to eat and are ready to eat an elephant from hunger, this is hardly curiosity. In the cold season, all curiosity determines - hunger. Animals are very rationally made creatures. They are not like a person. He can kill - not at all out of hunger. All the curiosity of animals. their interest in someone and something is dictated by simple instincts. I want to eat - I'm looking for food. I'm full - I'm looking for a lair to rest.

I agree , to a point. But there is always the  risk to need to eat and not if you are going to get killed. I think the Mansi means that a Wolverine will eat dead humans not hunt live ones.

It's here the misinterpretation happens. The over grown rodent eats vegetation too. The Wolverine doesn't hunt humans .

It doesn't need an elephant, 2-6 pounds is enough. If your coming over the pass on your way home and smell cooked food , why not have a look for a free easy meal. Is this not why the Mansi put there labaz in the trees and the hikers buried their caches?. To stop beasts having a free diner?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 03:14:40 AM


I agree , to a point. But there is always the  risk to need to eat and not if you are going to get killed. I think the Mansi means that a Wolverine will eat dead humans not hunt live ones.

It's here the misinterpretation happens. The over grown rodent eats vegetation too. The Wolverine doesn't hunt humans .
Росомаха преследует стадо оленей, чтоб дождаться когда ослабленное животное из него вычленится, станет одиночкою. Стадо людей - ровно такое же правило. Люди - более легкая добыча.
Случай на Аляске с одиноким путешественником - говорит о том, что для росомахи он был вполне аппетитною и допустимою добычей.
Wolverine pursues a herd of deer in order to wait until the weakened animal is isolated from it, becomes a loner. A herd of people - exactly the same rule. Humans are easier prey.
The case in Alaska with a lone traveler suggests that for the wolverine he was quite appetizing and acceptable prey.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Ziljoe on January 11, 2023, 03:47:40 AM


I agree , to a point. But there is always the  risk to need to eat and not if you are going to get killed. I think the Mansi means that a Wolverine will eat dead humans not hunt live ones.

It's here the misinterpretation happens. The over grown rodent eats vegetation too. The Wolverine doesn't hunt humans .
Росомаха преследует стадо оленей, чтоб дождаться когда ослабленное животное из него вычленится, станет одиночкою. Стадо людей - ровно такое же правило. Люди - более легкая добыча.
Случай на Аляске с одиноким путешественником - говорит о том, что для росомахи он был вполне аппетитною и допустимою добычей.
Wolverine pursues a herd of deer in order to wait until the weakened animal is isolated from it, becomes a loner. A herd of people - exactly the same rule. Humans are easier prey.
The case in Alaska with a lone traveler suggests that for the wolverine he was quite appetizing and acceptable prey.


Perhaps but it is only the testimony of this individual being hunted by this Wolverine. If this was a common occurrence it would be in the tourists hand book.

Also it is not what Igor b is putting forward. It is the spray that is the link with the dilated pupils, it is this that prevents the return to the tent. I suppose  it could be argued that the Wolverine tried the ham or pork and hung about the tent so the left but I don't support this.

It is recorded that one of the hikers( forgot which one) . Ran and attacked a bear on a different hike.

The spray , if what happened, also explains the need to find water. In my opinion. It is the links to the statements that raise my thoughts.

I believe it is worthy of futher scrutiny . It's a solid piece of work by Igor b, if you read all his links.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 04:28:26 AM

Perhaps but it is only the testimony of this individual being hunted by this Wolverine. If this was a common occurrence it would be in the tourists hand book.

Also it is not what Igor b is putting forward. It is the spray that is the link with the dilated pupils, it is this that prevents the return to the tent. I suppose  it could be argued that the Wolverine tried the ham or pork and hung about the tent so the left but I don't support this.

It is recorded that one of the hikers( forgot which one) . Ran and attacked a bear on a different hike.

The spray , if what happened, also explains the need to find water. In my opinion. It is the links to the statements that raise my thoughts.

I believe it is worthy of futher scrutiny . It's a solid piece of work by Igor b, if you read all his links.

А кто сказал, что в справочнике для туристов - нет совета опасаться хищников? И росомахе не надо преследовать. Ей просто нужно периодически проверять - насколько стадо людей потеряло сплоченность рядов и прийти на запах трупов.

Расширенные зрачки - это не совсем однозначно. Читайте профи
https://www.sudmed.ru/index.php?showtopic=1142
https://forens.ru/topic/668-%D1%83%D0%B7%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5-%D0%B7%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%B8/

And who said that in the guide for tourists - there is no advice to beware of predators? And the wolverine does not have to pursue. She just needs to periodically check how much the herd of people has lost the cohesion of the ranks and come to the smell of corpses.

Dilated pupils - this is not entirely unambiguous. Read the professionals
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: GlennM on January 11, 2023, 06:28:48 AM
Perhaps the hikers desired a wolverine hat. Now, who is in danger?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Ziljoe on January 11, 2023, 06:56:45 AM


And who said that in the guide for tourists - there is no advice to beware of predators? And the wolverine does not have to pursue. She just needs to periodically check how much the herd of people has lost the cohesion of the ranks and come to the smell of corpses.

Dilated pupils - this is not entirely unambiguous. Read the professionals

I have never come across any records of wolverines stalking humans. I don't think there's been a report ever of a human being killed.

The dilated pupil has variables with the cause of death surly .
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 07:12:40 AM


I have never come across any records of wolverines stalking humans. I don't think there's been a report ever of a human being killed.

The dilated pupil has variables with the cause of death surly .
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1306.msg20569#msg20569
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Ziljoe on January 11, 2023, 07:36:34 AM


I have never come across any records of wolverines stalking humans. I don't think there's been a report ever of a human being killed.

The dilated pupil has variables with the cause of death surly .
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1306.msg20569#msg20569

Your link provided no talk of wolverine attack on humans. The link says it's harmless but look after your pets.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 07:48:13 AM


I have never come across any records of wolverines stalking humans. I don't think there's been a report ever of a human being killed.

The dilated pupil has variables with the cause of death surly .
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1306.msg20569#msg20569

Your link provided no talk of wolverine attack on humans. The link says it's harmless but look after your pets.

Там я прямо цитату привела. Вот эту. Только не переводила.

Quote
Интересные случаи, связанные с росомахой
Росомаха преследовала мужчину на Аляске Это был 38-летний Крейг Джонсон, который в течении трех дней на Аляске пробыл на морозе. Он отправился в поездку, чтобы посетить свою семью на праздники и это путешествие ему надолго запомнилось. 15 декабря Джонсон был на полпути своей 130-киллометровой поездки из города Уэйнрайт в Барроу, когда его снегоход начал тонуть в морском льду. Ледяная вода была ему уже по грудь, когда ему каким-то образом удалось выбраться из воды. Несмотря на промокшую одежду, он начал свой 50-километровый поход, чтобы найти помощь.
По пути росомаха взяла его след и начала преследовать его по всему ледяному простору. Джонсон знал о свирепости этого хищника и о своей уязвимости. Ему казалось, что животное просто играется с ним, ждет удачного момента, чтобы напасть на него. Он часто слышал, как она скребется когтями о лед. После предупредительных выстрелов животное не ушло прочь, Джонсон был вынужден защищаться палкой.
Quote

Interesting Cases Related to Wolverine
Wolverine chased a man in Alaska It was 38-year-old Craig Johnson, who spent three days in Alaska in the cold. He went on a trip to visit his family for the holidays and this trip he will remember for a long time. On December 15, Johnson was halfway through his 130-kilometer drive from Wainwright to Barrow when his snowmobile began to sink into the sea ice. The icy water was already up to his chest when he somehow managed to get out of the water. Despite his wet clothes, he began his 50-kilometer hike to find help.
Along the way, the wolverine took his trail and began to pursue him throughout the icy expanse. Johnson was aware of the ferocity of this predator and his own vulnerability. It seemed to him that the animal was just playing with him, waiting for the right moment to attack him. He often heard her scratching her claws on the ice. After warning shots, the animal did not go away, Johnson was forced to defend himself with a stick

https://time.com/3648299/survivor-3-days-alaska-wolverine/
https://people.com/celebrity/craig-johnson-survives-alaska-wilderness-wolverine-attack/
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 12, 2023, 09:25:58 AM
Прошу конспирологическими версиями тему не засорять
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 12, 2023, 09:31:25 AM
Второй вариант разрезания палатки - убийственная конструкция дымохода печи.
Трубу печи нужно направлять по ветру, иначе возникнет обратная тяга и палатка начнёт наполняться дымом.
Особенно опасно ночью, когда может произойти изменение направления ветра. Дым можно во сне не почувствовать и наглотаться. Проснувшись, можно в панике разрезать палатку для экстренной вентиляции
The second option for cutting the tent is the killer design of the stove chimney.
The stove pipe must be directed into the wind, otherwise there will be a reverse draft and the tent will begin to fill with smoke.
It is especially dangerous at night when a change in wind direction can occur. You can not feel the smoke in a dream and swallow it. Waking up, in a panic, you can cut the tent for emergency ventilation

(https://i.ibb.co/4sH4DKP/Screenshot-26.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Jx9rbm5)

(https://i.ibb.co/wgmxSx3/Screenshot-27.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9g5CbCz)

(https://i.ibb.co/FzNbnxk/Screenshot-28.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dD107Ws)

Видео по теме, кто не понимает, о чём речь: https://youtu.be/Mt_-MpC73Dw?t=45 (https://youtu.be/Mt_-MpC73Dw?t=45)

(https://i.ibb.co/P4K5KCN/Screenshot-29.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y8mtmj3)
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: GlennM on January 12, 2023, 01:12:14 PM
In this example, we are informed of how a smokestack that is not adjusted for wind direction can produce life threatening vapors. These vapors require emergency action such as cutting the tent. The how explains the why. Progress is made.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Ziljoe on January 12, 2023, 01:42:38 PM
Hi Олег Таймень

Is the explanation saying that the smoke is blown back into the tent if the pipe is at the wrong angle and the pipe must be vertical? Or that the pipe be pointed in the direction of the wind?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 12, 2023, 09:11:43 PM
In this example, we are informed of how a smokestack that is not adjusted for wind direction can produce life threatening vapors. These vapors require emergency action such as cutting the tent. The how explains the why. Progress is made.
Только печкою на этой стоянке на склоне 1079 - не пользовались. Она как была в мешке-упаковке, так и досталась поисковикам. С щепочками на растопку внутри и трубами.
Only the stove at this parking lot on slope 1079 was not used. She was in a bag-packing, and went to the search engines. With chips for kindling inside and pipes.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 12, 2023, 09:14:45 PM
Hi Олег Таймень

Is the explanation saying that the smoke is blown back into the tent if the pipe is at the wrong angle and the pipe must be vertical? Or that the pipe be pointed in the direction of the wind?

Вы не видите, что Таймень - жульничает? Он дает Вам фото из похода на Приполярный Урал 1958 года. И убеждает видеть в нем аналог установки палатки на склоне 1079 в 1959 году. Для установки печи - нужны дополнительные упоры из лыж. Где это на фото обнаружения палатки в 1959 году?
Don't you see that Taimen is cheating? He gives you a photo from a trip to the Subpolar Urals in 1958. And he convinces us to see in it an analogue of setting up a tent on slope 1079 in 1959. To install the stove - you need additional stops from skis. Where is this in the photo of the discovery of the tent in 1959?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 12, 2023, 09:58:54 PM
Hi Олег Таймень

Is the explanation saying that the smoke is blown back into the tent if the pipe is at the wrong angle and the pipe must be vertical? Or that the pipe be pointed in the direction of the wind?
Да, именно так.
1. Труба не должна иметь горизонтальных земле элементов трубы.
2. Если труба выходит из палатки под углом, то последнее колено всё равно должно быть строго вертикально вверх.
Тогда можно минимизировать возможность обратной тяги.
У печи группы Дятлова существует реальная опасность обратной тяги. Если это произошло вечером, когда группа не спит, то можно сразу выйти и развернуть трубу по ветру, проветрив палатку. Если группа спит, то в темноте очень сложно сообразить, что следует делать при быстром и сильном задымлении палатки и велика вероятность, что её разрезали для скорой вентиляции
Yes exactly.
1. The pipe must not have pipe elements horizontal to the ground.
2. If the pipe comes out of the tent at an angle, then the last knee should still be strictly vertically up.
Then you can minimize the possibility of reverse thrust.
The furnace of the Dyatlov group has a real danger of back draft. If this happened in the evening, when the group is awake, then you can immediately go out and turn the pipe into the wind, airing the tent. If the group is sleeping, then in the dark it is very difficult to figure out what should be done with a quick and strong smoke from the tent, and it is likely that it was cut for emergency ventilation.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 12, 2023, 10:04:22 PM
Hi Олег Таймень

Is the explanation saying that the smoke is blown back into the tent if the pipe is at the wrong angle and the pipe must be vertical? Or that the pipe be pointed in the direction of the wind?

Вы не видите, что Таймень - жульничает? Он дает Вам фото из похода на Приполярный Урал 1958 года. И убеждает видеть в нем аналог установки палатки на склоне 1079 в 1959 году. Для установки печи - нужны дополнительные упоры из лыж. Где это на фото обнаружения палатки в 1959 году?
Don't you see that Taimen is cheating? He gives you a photo from a trip to the Subpolar Urals in 1958. And he convinces us to see in it an analogue of setting up a tent on slope 1079 in 1959. To install the stove - you need additional stops from skis. Where is this in the photo of the discovery of the tent in 1959?
А я нигде и не утверждал, что два небольших разреза изнутри были сделаны именно на склоне Халатчахля. Это могло быть сделано раньше. Это во первых. А во вторых, у меня нет фотографий наклона трубы, выведенной из палатки именно в этом походе
And I never claimed anywhere that two small cuts from the inside were made precisely on the slope of Halatchakhl. This could have been done before. This is first. And secondly, I don’t have photos of the slope of the pipe taken out of the tent on this particular trip.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 12, 2023, 10:12:36 PM
Эта тема единственная объясняет разрезы палатки, сделанные изнутри. Разрезы настолько малы, что в них невозможно вылезти одетому человеку. Так же эти разрезы сильно велики, чтобы сделать их для возможных наблюдений за склоном, как это утверждается в некоторых версиях. Одного разреза 10 сантиметров было бы вполне достаточно чтобы в него смотреть и не выстужать палатку без затопленной печи
This topic is the only one that explains the cuts of the tent made from the inside. The cuts are so small that it is impossible for a dressed person to get out of them. Also, these sections are too large to make them for possible observations of the slope, as stated in some versions. One cut of 10 centimeters would be quite enough to look into it and not to cool the tent without a flooded stove
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 12, 2023, 10:26:24 PM
Эта тема единственная объясняет разрезы палатки, сделанные изнутри. Разрезы настолько малы, что в них невозможно вылезти одетому человеку. Так же эти разрезы сильно велики, чтобы сделать их для возможных наблюдений за склоном, как это утверждается в некоторых версиях. Одного разреза 10 сантиметров было бы вполне достаточно чтобы в него смотреть и не выстужать палатку без затопленной печи
This topic is the only one that explains the cuts of the tent made from the inside. The cuts are so small that it is impossible for a dressed person to get out of them. Also, these sections are too large to make them for possible observations of the slope, as stated in some versions. One cut of 10 centimeters would be quite enough to look into it and not to cool the tent without a flooded stove
Вам Игорь Б. совершенно верно напоминал, что для палатки Дятлова - постоянно требовалась починка в пути. П.И.Бартоломей узнал в ней прожженные в походе 1958 года - дырочки. Она и так была с щелево-дырочным проветриванием от ветхости. Как дуршлаг. Такую палатку не стоит дополнительно резать. Ибо можно довести до совсем безнадежного состояния.
А если еще вспомнить - что мокрая непросушенная палатка при сворачивании может смерзаться и потом ломаться, что описано во многих туристических отчетах. А еще нужно помнить что при топке печки  - жар  так воздействует на нити волокна, что оно истлевает.
Так про что Вы тут тему тянете?

Igor B. quite rightly reminded you that for the Dyatlov tent, repairs were constantly required on the way. P.I.Bartolomey recognized in it the holes burned in the campaign of 1958. She was already with slot-hole ventilation from dilapidation. Like a colander. Such a tent should not be further cut. For it can be brought to a completely hopeless state.

And if you also remember - that a wet, not dried tent, when rolled up, can freeze and then break, which is described in many tourist reports. And you also need to remember that when the stove is fired, the heat affects the fiber threads in such a way that it decays.
So what are you talking about here?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 13, 2023, 12:28:44 AM
Эта тема единственная объясняет разрезы палатки, сделанные изнутри. Разрезы настолько малы, что в них невозможно вылезти одетому человеку. Так же эти разрезы сильно велики, чтобы сделать их для возможных наблюдений за склоном, как это утверждается в некоторых версиях. Одного разреза 10 сантиметров было бы вполне достаточно чтобы в него смотреть и не выстужать палатку без затопленной печи
This topic is the only one that explains the cuts of the tent made from the inside. The cuts are so small that it is impossible for a dressed person to get out of them. Also, these sections are too large to make them for possible observations of the slope, as stated in some versions. One cut of 10 centimeters would be quite enough to look into it and not to cool the tent without a flooded stove
Вам Игорь Б. совершенно верно напоминал, что для палатки Дятлова - постоянно требовалась починка в пути. П.И.Бартоломей узнал в ней прожженные в походе 1958 года - дырочки. Она и так была с щелево-дырочным проветриванием от ветхости. Как дуршлаг. Такую палатку не стоит дополнительно резать. Ибо можно довести до совсем безнадежного состояния.
А если еще вспомнить - что мокрая непросушенная палатка при сворачивании может смерзаться и потом ломаться, что описано во многих туристических отчетах. А еще нужно помнить что при топке печки  - жар  так воздействует на нити волокна, что оно истлевает.
Так про что Вы тут тему тянете?

Igor B. quite rightly reminded you that for the Dyatlov tent, repairs were constantly required on the way. P.I.Bartolomey recognized in it the holes burned in the campaign of 1958. She was already with slot-hole ventilation from dilapidation. Like a colander. Such a tent should not be further cut. For it can be brought to a completely hopeless state.

And if you also remember - that a wet, not dried tent, when rolled up, can freeze and then break, which is described in many tourist reports. And you also need to remember that when the stove is fired, the heat affects the fiber threads in such a way that it decays.
So what are you talking about here?
Ничего там не требовалось до выхода выше зоны леса. Только на верхах появляется опасность того, что сильный ветер начнёт рвать палатку и она поползёт по небольшим дыркам. Если бы, край из носа, что-то требовалось то, я вас уверяю, починили бы ещё в Екатеринбурге. И не нужно меня в записи дневников тыкать, я их читал. У меня своя голова, свой опыт и свои знания. Я вижу разницу между написанным и реальностью. Эти дырки хоть немного вентилировали палатку от возникновения конденсата, поэтому и чинить её никто особо не торопился. Но, починить всё же было необходимо. Вентиляция должна быть большая и контролируемая. А Игорю порекомендовал бы сходить хотя бы в зимний поход выходного дня. На одну ночь. Сразу возникнет и понимание и озарение по многим нюансам
Nothing was required there until the exit above the forest zone. Only at the top there is a danger that a strong wind will start tearing the tent and it will crawl through small holes. If, the edge of the nose, something was required, I assure you, they would have repaired it in Yekaterinburg. And you don’t need to poke me in the diary entries, I read them. I have my own head, my own experience and my own knowledge. I see the difference between writing and reality. These holes ventilated the tent at least a little from the occurrence of condensate, so no one was in a particular hurry to repair it. But, it still needed to be fixed. Ventilation should be large and controlled. And I would recommend Igor to go at least on a weekend winter hike. For one night. Immediately there will be understanding and insight in many nuances
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 13, 2023, 01:17:44 AM

Ничего там не требовалось до выхода выше зоны леса. Только на верхах появляется опасность того, что сильный ветер начнёт рвать палатку и она поползёт по небольшим дыркам. Если бы, край из носа, что-то требовалось то, я вас уверяю, починили бы ещё в Екатеринбурге. И не нужно меня в записи дневников тыкать, я их читал. У меня своя голова, свой опыт и свои знания. Я вижу разницу между написанным и реальностью. Эти дырки хоть немного вентилировали палатку от возникновения конденсата, поэтому и чинить её никто особо не торопился. Но, починить всё же было необходимо. Вентиляция должна быть большая и контролируемая. А Игорю порекомендовал бы сходить хотя бы в зимний поход выходного дня. На одну ночь. Сразу возникнет и понимание и озарение по многим нюансам
Nothing was required there until the exit above the forest zone. Only at the top there is a danger that a strong wind will start tearing the tent and it will crawl through small holes. If, the edge of the nose, something was required, I assure you, they would have repaired it in Yekaterinburg. And you don’t need to poke me in the diary entries, I read them. I have my own head, my own experience and my own knowledge. I see the difference between writing and reality. These holes ventilated the tent at least a little from the occurrence of condensate, so no one was in a particular hurry to repair it. But, it still needed to be fixed. Ventilation should be large and controlled. And I would recommend Igor to go at least on a weekend winter hike. For one night. Immediately there will be understanding and insight in many nuances

Ага, озаритесь, плиз,  смыслом написанного здесь
Yeah, light up, pliz, the meaning of what is written here
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-29-30?rbid=17743
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-30.jpg)
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Missi on January 13, 2023, 02:25:51 AM
The problem of condensation and ventilation is an interesting one I haven't thought about until now. Yet it is one the group probably would have solved during other hikes and at the latest during the first nights. At least in my opinion. The tend would have been wet in the morning after sleeping in it as well after the first nights, giving the problem of damage through freezing.

As for the idea of bad ventilation: May I recall that the stove was not put together and therefore not used during the night on the mountain? This renders that theory useless, unfortunately. Sorry.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Игорь Б. on January 13, 2023, 08:54:50 AM
А Игорю порекомендовал бы сходить хотя бы в зимний поход выходного дня. На одну ночь.
Сходил. На одну ночь. Палатка не пострадала:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=78572
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 13, 2023, 12:22:04 PM
А Игорю порекомендовал бы сходить хотя бы в зимний поход выходного дня. На одну ночь.
Сходил. На одну ночь. Палатка не пострадала:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=78572
Открой всю вентиляцию, какая есть в палатке и не укрывайся с головой, дыши наружу, какой бы не был мороз. Хоть -50 Тогда всё будет сухо и комфортно. Как в прокладках хагис
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 15, 2023, 11:30:11 AM
Does anyone have evidence that the Dyatlov group stoked the stove at night and appointed a night duty officer for this purpose?
My opinion is that the stove was heated only in the evening and in the morning. And sometimes they didn’t heat at all, they managed with a fire. And the duties of the duty officer were to kindle the furnace, nothing more ..
У кого-нибудь есть доказательства, что группа Дятлова топила ночью печь и назначала для этой цели ночного дежурного ?
Моё мнение, что печь топилась только вечером и утром. А иногда вообще не топилась, обходились костром. И обязанности дежурного заключались в растопке печи, не более того..
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: ilahiyol on January 15, 2023, 08:22:28 PM
- They can't need a ventilation hole on a mountain slope at 10 degrees. The tent takes enough air from the smallest places, even from the seams. So far, no traveler has been able to dig a hole in his tent to ventilate. Because it is not needed. The only option was to drill a hole to see something outside the tent....And they knew beforehand about this unknown power. Because it bothered them. And they had fled from the forest to the mountain. So they were afraid of him and instead of opening the door of the tent and looking at him, they made a hole in the tent and looked at it.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 15, 2023, 08:56:21 PM
Эта тема единственная объясняет разрезы палатки, сделанные изнутри. Разрезы настолько малы, что в них невозможно вылезти одетому человеку. Так же эти разрезы сильно велики, чтобы сделать их для возможных наблюдений за склоном, как это утверждается в некоторых версиях. Одного разреза 10 сантиметров было бы вполне достаточно чтобы в него смотреть и не выстужать палатку без затопленной печи
This topic is the only one that explains the cuts of the tent made from the inside. The cuts are so small that it is impossible for a dressed person to get out of them. Also, these sections are too large to make them for possible observations of the slope, as stated in some versions. One cut of 10 centimeters would be quite enough to look into it and not to cool the tent without a flooded stove

Except that the first searchers to reach the tent tore it open looking inside, and later after the contents were removed, the tent was dug/chipped out of the frozen tundra with ice shovels.  Is it not possible to tear back material and then it be cut on the inside which has just become the outside?  🤔

Don’t forget that the tent was then dragged something like 1/2 mile over jagged rocks and ice to the helicopter LZ.  And a common seamstress tells us the fantasy of slashing their way out.  🤨
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: RMK on January 15, 2023, 09:50:00 PM
Эта тема единственная объясняет разрезы палатки, сделанные изнутри. Разрезы настолько малы, что в них невозможно вылезти одетому человеку. Так же эти разрезы сильно велики, чтобы сделать их для возможных наблюдений за склоном, как это утверждается в некоторых версиях. Одного разреза 10 сантиметров было бы вполне достаточно чтобы в него смотреть и не выстужать палатку без затопленной печи
This topic is the only one that explains the cuts of the tent made from the inside. The cuts are so small that it is impossible for a dressed person to get out of them. Also, these sections are too large to make them for possible observations of the slope, as stated in some versions. One cut of 10 centimeters would be quite enough to look into it and not to cool the tent without a flooded stove

Except that the first searchers to reach the tent tore it open looking inside, and later after the contents were removed, the tent was dug/chipped out of the frozen tundra with ice shovels.  Is it not possible to tear back material and then it be cut on the inside which has just become the outside?  🤔

Don’t forget that the tent was then dragged something like 1/2 mile over jagged rocks and ice to the helicopter LZ.  And a common seamstress tells us the fantasy of slashing their way out.  🤨
I agree.  The evidentiary value of that tent may well have been completely obliterated by the way the search parties handled it.

(As an aside, I also have some major concerns about the evidentiary value of "the den".)
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Зайцев on January 15, 2023, 09:51:52 PM
Does anyone have evidence that the Dyatlov group stoked the stove at night and appointed a night duty officer for this purpose?
My opinion is that the stove was heated only in the evening and in the morning. And sometimes they didn’t heat at all, they managed with a fire. And the duties of the duty officer were to kindle the furnace, nothing more ..
У кого-нибудь есть доказательства, что группа Дятлова топила ночью печь и назначала для этой цели ночного дежурного ?
Моё мнение, что печь топилась только вечером и утром. А иногда вообще не топилась, обходились костром. И обязанности дежурного заключались в растопке печи, не более того..
Вполне возможно, если температура теплее -20 градусов. Это при наличии спальников. Учитывая, что мы точно не знаем насколько эффективно работали одеяла вместо спальников, то нужно эту отметку изменить на -10 градусов.
It is quite possible if the temperature is warmer than -20 degrees. This is with sleeping bags. Considering that we do not know exactly how effective blankets worked instead of sleeping bags, we need to change this mark to -10 degrees.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 15, 2023, 10:02:31 PM
Эта тема единственная объясняет разрезы палатки, сделанные изнутри. Разрезы настолько малы, что в них невозможно вылезти одетому человеку. Так же эти разрезы сильно велики, чтобы сделать их для возможных наблюдений за склоном, как это утверждается в некоторых версиях. Одного разреза 10 сантиметров было бы вполне достаточно чтобы в него смотреть и не выстужать палатку без затопленной печи
This topic is the only one that explains the cuts of the tent made from the inside. The cuts are so small that it is impossible for a dressed person to get out of them. Also, these sections are too large to make them for possible observations of the slope, as stated in some versions. One cut of 10 centimeters would be quite enough to look into it and not to cool the tent without a flooded stove

Except that the first searchers to reach the tent tore it open looking inside, and later after the contents were removed, the tent was dug/chipped out of the frozen tundra with ice shovels.  Is it not possible to tear back material and then it be cut on the inside which has just become the outside?  🤔

Don’t forget that the tent was then dragged something like 1/2 mile over jagged rocks and ice to the helicopter LZ.  And a common seamstress tells us the fantasy of slashing their way out.  🤨
I would very much like to ignore this point that there are cuts made from the inside. Then it would be easier to explain a lot. But, there is no evidence that the searchers cut the tent with a knife. You can't cut a tarpaulin with an ice pick. An ice ax can be stuck and pulling, tear. Cuts from breaks can be distinguished.
We must adhere to the opinion that the tent was cut and cut from the inside.
Очень хотелось бы игнорировать этот момент, что существуют разрезы, сделанные изнутри. Тогда легче было бы многое объяснить. Но, нет никаких свидетельств, что поисковики резали палатку ножом. Ледорубом не сделаешь разрезы брезента. Ледоруб можно воткнуть и натягивая, рвать. Разрезы от разрывов можно отличить.
Мы обязаны придерживаться мнению, что палатка была разрезана и разрезана именно изнутри.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 15, 2023, 10:17:55 PM
Does anyone have evidence that the Dyatlov group stoked the stove at night and appointed a night duty officer for this purpose?
My opinion is that the stove was heated only in the evening and in the morning. And sometimes they didn’t heat at all, they managed with a fire. And the duties of the duty officer were to kindle the furnace, nothing more ..
У кого-нибудь есть доказательства, что группа Дятлова топила ночью печь и назначала для этой цели ночного дежурного ?
Моё мнение, что печь топилась только вечером и утром. А иногда вообще не топилась, обходились костром. И обязанности дежурного заключались в растопке печи, не более того..
Вполне возможно, если температура теплее -20 градусов. Это при наличии спальников. Учитывая, что мы точно не знаем насколько эффективно работали одеяла вместо спальников, то нужно эту отметку изменить на -10 градусов.
It is quite possible if the temperature is warmer than -20 degrees. This is with sleeping bags. Considering that we do not know exactly how effective blankets worked instead of sleeping bags, we need to change this mark to -10 degrees.
Perhaps the Dyatlov group had some way of connecting all the blankets into one common sleeping bag. Such methods were used before and similar home-made sleeping systems were called "Semeyniki". How can I fasten the blankets so that they do not move apart and there are no gaps, I do not know. Perhaps you need to study the ways of tourists of those years.
In the "Families" everyone slept dressed, huddled together. Inside this large sleeping bag, the air was heated by the heat emitted by tourists, and there was a stable positive temperature. It was colder for those who sleep from one side and the other. Those in the middle were very warm. The only disadvantage of this system is discomfort. To roll over on the other side, you need to practically wake up the neighbors with your manipulations. But, despite this, even in our time, "Semeyniki" are still used. These are 3-4-5 local home-made bags , which greatly save space in backpacks and reduce the overall weight of equipment on long hikes.
Возможно, у группы Дятлова существовал какой-то способ соединения всех одеял в один общий спальный мешок. Такие методы раньше применялись и подобные самодельные спальные системы назывались "Семейниками". Как можно скрепить одеяла, что-бы они не разъезжались и не было щелей, я не знаю. Возможно нужно поизучать способы туристов тех лет.
В "Семейниках все спали одетыми, прижавшись друг к другу. Внутри этого большого спальника воздух нагревался от тепла, выделяемого туристами, и была стабильная плюсовая температура. Холоднее было тем, кто спит с одного и другого края. Тем, кто в середине, им было очень тепло. Единственный минус у этой системы, это дискомфорт. Чтобы перевернуться на другой бок, нужно практически разбудить соседей своими манипуляциями. Но, несмотря на это, даже в наше время "Семейники" ещё применяются. Это 3-4-5 местные самодельные мешки, которые очень сильно экономят место в рюкзаках и уменьшают общий вес снаряжения в длительных походах.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 16, 2023, 05:55:21 AM
Does anyone have evidence that the Dyatlov group stoked the stove at night and appointed a night duty officer for this purpose?
My opinion is that the stove was heated only in the evening and in the morning. And sometimes they didn’t heat at all, they managed with a fire. And the duties of the duty officer were to kindle the furnace, nothing more ..
У кого-нибудь есть доказательства, что группа Дятлова топила ночью печь и назначала для этой цели ночного дежурного ?
Моё мнение, что печь топилась только вечером и утром. А иногда вообще не топилась, обходились костром. И обязанности дежурного заключались в растопке печи, не более того..
Вполне возможно, если температура теплее -20 градусов. Это при наличии спальников. Учитывая, что мы точно не знаем насколько эффективно работали одеяла вместо спальников, то нужно эту отметку изменить на -10 градусов.
It is quite possible if the temperature is warmer than -20 degrees. This is with sleeping bags. Considering that we do not know exactly how effective blankets worked instead of sleeping bags, we need to change this mark to -10 degrees.
Perhaps the Dyatlov group had some way of connecting all the blankets into one common sleeping bag. Such methods were used before and similar home-made sleeping systems were called "Semeyniki". How can I fasten the blankets so that they do not move apart and there are no gaps, I do not know. Perhaps you need to study the ways of tourists of those years.
In the "Families" everyone slept dressed, huddled together. Inside this large sleeping bag, the air was heated by the heat emitted by tourists, and there was a stable positive temperature. It was colder for those who sleep from one side and the other. Those in the middle were very warm. The only disadvantage of this system is discomfort. To roll over on the other side, you need to practically wake up the neighbors with your manipulations. But, despite this, even in our time, "Semeyniki" are still used. These are 3-4-5 local home-made bags , which greatly save space in backpacks and reduce the overall weight of equipment on long hikes.
Возможно, у группы Дятлова существовал какой-то способ соединения всех одеял в один общий спальный мешок. Такие методы раньше применялись и подобные самодельные спальные системы назывались "Семейниками". Как можно скрепить одеяла, что-бы они не разъезжались и не было щелей, я не знаю. Возможно нужно поизучать способы туристов тех лет.
В "Семейниках все спали одетыми, прижавшись друг к другу. Внутри этого большого спальника воздух нагревался от тепла, выделяемого туристами, и была стабильная плюсовая температура. Холоднее было тем, кто спит с одного и другого края. Тем, кто в середине, им было очень тепло. Единственный минус у этой системы, это дискомфорт. Чтобы перевернуться на другой бок, нужно практически разбудить соседей своими манипуляциями. Но, несмотря на это, даже в наше время "Семейники" ещё применяются. Это 3-4-5 местные самодельные мешки, которые очень сильно экономят место в рюкзаках и уменьшают общий вес снаряжения в длительных походах.

I would say the inside cuts are problematic and inconclusive.  When in doubt….  throw it out. 
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: GlennM on January 16, 2023, 05:39:04 PM
Then again,,how did they get out?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: ilahiyol on January 16, 2023, 08:16:04 PM
Then again,,how did they get out?
It is certain that the tent was cut from the inside. But it may have been cut from both inside and outside at the time of the incident.....Tears at the time of subsequent recovery are already evident. They are easy to spot. It is very easy to distinguish.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 16, 2023, 09:00:02 PM
 1,2, and 3….  the ONLY cuts ever attributed…. all else are tears. Given how the tent was handled when it was found and after. Zero evidence the slashed their way out.  The tent had a front flap and it was found open.   


Now.....    lets take a look at this inspection of the tent case file and the analysis of the cuts that were reported as having been made from the inside.


Quote
As a result of the foregoing, and when examining the edges of all the damages on the tent, one can conclude that three damages /conditionally marked № 1, 2, 3 / came as a result of contact with some sharp weapon /knife/, i.e. are cuts. Yet the rest of the damage is a tear.

(https://image.ibb.co/jyvsdJ/0_a5932_37268c21_XL3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

So the cuts shown above are the ONLY ones of the ENTIRE tent that are reported to be cut from the inside. 

Now.......   Does anyone here believe NINE full size adult bodies jumped out of those holes? 

Where are the analysis reports on cuts made from the outside?

Is it possible said 'inside' cuts are nothing more then a result of being chopped/dug out of the icy hardened snow using shovels and ice axes?  Or perhaps the results of having been dragged 700m = 1/2 mile over sharp rocks and ice?

Is it possible said inside cuts were created after damage to the tent resulted in the material being peeled back exposing the inside making it now..... the outside? 

It is of my opinion that there can be NO declaration based on any substantive evidence the 9 victims ever sliced their way out of the tent to begin with. And along with that, any theory solely based on them having done so is HEAVILY flawed. 

Those who saw the tent after the search students "worked" with it attributed the cuts made by the search students to Igor Dyatlov's group. Then, based on this false "fact", a legend was created that Igor Dyatlov's group cut the tent during their departure.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 16, 2023, 09:12:11 PM
1,2, and 3….  the ONLY cuts ever attributed…. all else are tears. Given how the tent was handled when it was found and after. Zero evidence the slashed their way out.  The tent had a front flap and it was found open.   

Но...Поисковики нашли палатку - застегнутую на пуговицы. И от разрыва в скате - шли следы уходящей группы.
И легче разрезать и потом рвать. И конечное состояние - вполне соответствует схеме Шаравина. А Чуркиной было задание - выяснять только про разрезы.
But ... The search engines found a tent - buttoned up. And from the gap in the slope - there were traces of the outgoing group.
And it's easier to cut and then tear. And the final state is quite consistent with Sharavin's scheme. And Churkina had a task - to find out only about the cuts.
https://dyatlovpass.com/sharavin-2-ru

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-Sharavin-drawing-ru-thumb.jpg)
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-303-304?rbid=17743
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-Churkina-photo-01-en.jpg)
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 16, 2023, 09:27:11 PM
1,2, and 3….  the ONLY cuts ever attributed…. all else are tears. Given how the tent was handled when it was found and after. Zero evidence the slashed their way out.  The tent had a front flap and it was found open.   

Но...Поисковики нашли палатку - застегнутую на пуговицы. И от разрыва в скате - шли следы уходящей группы.
И легче разрезать и потом рвать. И конечное состояние - вполне соответствует схеме Шаравина. А Чуркиной было задание - выяснять только про разрезы.
But ... The search engines found a tent - buttoned up. And from the gap in the slope - there were traces of the outgoing group.
And it's easier to cut and then tear. And the final state is quite consistent with Sharavin's scheme. And Churkina had a task - to find out only about the cuts.
https://dyatlovpass.com/sharavin-2-ru

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-Sharavin-drawing-ru-thumb.jpg)
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-303-304?rbid=17743
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-Churkina-photo-01-en.jpg)

Chicken scratch from 1998?   The testimonies from the actual case files state open.  Please don’t make me go find them.  lol

Lets say it was buttoned closed…  am I to believe that a flap intended for the purpose of opening and closing cannot be closed behind the last occupant?   nea1

I believe once the idea of slashing out of the side of the tent evaporates, its only natural to assume a hasty exit still mist exist so the flap ‘has’ to left open.  I say, once you realize the slash exit never happened…. whos to say there was a hasty exit to begin with?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 16, 2023, 09:31:17 PM
1,2, and 3….  the ONLY cuts ever attributed…. all else are tears. Given how the tent was handled when it was found and after. Zero evidence the slashed their way out.  The tent had a front flap and it was found open.   

Но...Поисковики нашли палатку - застегнутую на пуговицы. И от разрыва в скате - шли следы уходящей группы.
И легче разрезать и потом рвать. И конечное состояние - вполне соответствует схеме Шаравина. А Чуркиной было задание - выяснять только про разрезы.
But ... The search engines found a tent - buttoned up. And from the gap in the slope - there were traces of the outgoing group.
And it's easier to cut and then tear. And the final state is quite consistent with Sharavin's scheme. And Churkina had a task - to find out only about the cuts.
https://dyatlovpass.com/sharavin-2-ru

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-Sharavin-drawing-ru-thumb.jpg)
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-303-304?rbid=17743
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-Churkina-photo-01-en.jpg)

Conjecture not based in facts.  all else were tears… nobody can prove how said tears occurred especially how it was ripped open by the search group, dug out of the ice encrustation with steel shovels and picks, then dragged 700 meters across ice and rocks to the helicopter landing pad.  🤷🏼‍♂️
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: GlennM on January 16, 2023, 09:39:48 PM
Shavarin's team walked right past it given that they landed on Otorten and were directed to search the Auspiya.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 16, 2023, 09:50:34 PM

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-209-220?rbid=17743

Quote
The tent stood sideways to the slope by the entrance to the east, the entrance was unbuttoned
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 16, 2023, 09:58:27 PM

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-209-220?rbid=17743

Quote
The tent stood sideways to the slope by the entrance to the east, the entrance was unbuttoned
Это ошибка перевода. Аксельрод сообщал, что на входе было расстегнуто всего несколько пуговиц и этого не хватает даже выйти одному человеку.
This is a translation error. Axelrod reported that only a few buttons were undone at the entrance, and this was not enough even for one person to go out.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Зайцев on January 16, 2023, 10:03:24 PM
1,2, and 3….  the ONLY cuts ever attributed…. all else are tears. Given how the tent was handled when it was found and after. Zero evidence the slashed their way out.  The tent had a front flap and it was found open.   

Но...Поисковики нашли палатку - застегнутую на пуговицы. И от разрыва в скате - шли следы уходящей группы.
И легче разрезать и потом рвать. И конечное состояние - вполне соответствует схеме Шаравина. А Чуркиной было задание - выяснять только про разрезы.
But ... The search engines found a tent - buttoned up. And from the gap in the slope - there were traces of the outgoing group.
And it's easier to cut and then tear. And the final state is quite consistent with Sharavin's scheme. And Churkina had a task - to find out only about the cuts.
https://dyatlovpass.com/sharavin-2-ru

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Dyatlov-pass-Sharavin-drawing-ru-thumb.jpg)
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-303-304?rbid=17743
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-Churkina-photo-01-en.jpg)
Have any experiments been carried out on leaving the tent by a group of 9 people through cuts of this size? How fast is it? It seems to me that a dressed person will not come out in two small cuts. If the cut of 42 centimeters is stretched and turned into a circle 84 centimeters long, then this will be a diameter of 26.75 centimeters.
If a cut of 89 centimeters is stretched to the sides and turned into a circle 178 centimeters long, then this will be a diameter of 56.69 centimeters.
Only in one, the largest cut, 1 person can get out.
Now let's measure the time it takes for 9 people to leave the tent in turn. I think it's very long. It would be faster for the eighth and ninth person to open the entrance and go out through it.
In addition, if the cuts were made to leave the tent, then why not cut the small cuts to the length that is needed?
А проводились какие-нибудь эксперименты по покиданию палатки группой из 9 человек через разрезы именно такого размера ? Насколько это быстро? Мне кажется, одетый человек не вылезет в два мелких разреза. Если разрез 42 сантиметра растянуть и превратить в окружность длинной 84 сантиметра, то это будет диаметр 26,75 сантиметра.
Если разрез 89 сантиметров растянуть в стороны и превратить в окружность длинной 178 сантиметров, то это будет диаметр 56,69 сантиметров.
Только в один, самый большой разрез, может вылезти 1 человек.
Теперь давайте замерим время, за которое 9 человек по очереди покинут палатку. Мне кажется это очень долго. Восьмому и девятому человеку быстрее было бы открыть вход и выйти наружу через него.
Кроме того, если разрезы делались для покидания палатки, то почему бы и не дорезать мелкие разрезы до той длинны, которая необходима ?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on January 16, 2023, 10:21:37 PM

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-209-220?rbid=17743

Quote
The tent stood sideways to the slope by the entrance to the east, the entrance was unbuttoned
Это ошибка перевода. Аксельрод сообщал, что на входе было расстегнуто всего несколько пуговиц и этого не хватает даже выйти одному человеку.
This is a translation error. Axelrod reported that only a few buttons were undone at the entrance, and this was not enough even for one person to go out.


Translation error.    lol1

No, its a different testimony.  No cherry picking

You have opposing testimonies.  Again, is a flap not able to be closed behind you, or does that not go along with the frantic escape from the side narrative?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 16, 2023, 11:12:30 PM
Shavarin's team walked right past it given that they landed on Otorten and were directed to search the Auspiya.
The search engines landed on Otorten passed 6 kilometers north of the tent, in the upper reaches of the Lozva, then made a loop and went to Auspiya. No way they could see the tent
Поисковики, высаженные на Отортене прошли в 6 километрах севернее палатки, в верховьях Лозьвы, потом сделали петлю и вышли на Ауспию. Никак они не могли видеть палатку
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: ilahiyol on January 17, 2023, 05:24:58 PM
Small cuts in the tent prove that there is a struggle against the external enemy. The Unknown Force must have attacked the tent from the tent entrance side. The youth took knives and ice axes in their hands. They thought they would protect themselves with these. And they waved knives from inside the tent to scare away the unknown Power. Small cuts are proof of that. But the Unknown Force paid no attention to them. And the young people realized that knives and axes could not protect them. And the unknown Power wanted to get them out of the tent. And for that, he pretended to attack them. Young people tried to stay in the tent. They resisted. The unknown Force attacked again. Again, the youth resisted. They did not want to leave the tent. He attacked again. Again, the youth resisted. They didn't want to leave their safe harbor in the tent. But when the unknown Force attacked violently for the last time, the youths cut through the tent completely and came out!!! They resisted to the end. They didn't give up easily. But outside they still had a hope of living. But the unknown Force had already made its decision. He caught them one by one and killed them. May God forgive them and take them to Heaven. amen.
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Зайцев on January 17, 2023, 10:36:23 PM
Small cuts in the tent prove that there is a struggle against the external enemy. The Unknown Force must have attacked the tent from the tent entrance side. The youth took knives and ice axes in their hands. They thought they would protect themselves with these. And they waved knives from inside the tent to scare away the unknown Power. Small cuts are proof of that. But the Unknown Force paid no attention to them. And the young people realized that knives and axes could not protect them. And the unknown Power wanted to get them out of the tent. And for that, he pretended to attack them. Young people tried to stay in the tent. They resisted. The unknown Force attacked again. Again, the youth resisted. They did not want to leave the tent. He attacked again. Again, the youth resisted. They didn't want to leave their safe harbor in the tent. But when the unknown Force attacked violently for the last time, the youths cut through the tent completely and came out!!! They resisted to the end. They didn't give up easily. But outside they still had a hope of living. But the unknown Force had already made its decision. He caught them one by one and killed them. May God forgive them and take them to Heaven. amen.
How old are you that you write such texts? I think that no more than 10-12 years. Guessed?
Вам сколько лет, что вы пишите подобные тексты ? Думаю, что не более 10-12 лет. Угадал?
Title: Re: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation
Post by: Почемучка on January 17, 2023, 11:24:32 PM


Translation error.    lol1

No, its a different testimony.  No cherry picking

You have opposing testimonies.  Again, is a flap not able to be closed behind you, or does that not go along with the frantic escape from the side narrative?

Ну давайте проведем натурный эксперимент. У Вас же есть классическая рубашка на пуговицах? Одевайте её и застегивайте все пуговицы под галстук. Это - вариант застегнутой наглухо палатки. Расстегните две верхних пуговицы. Ваша рубашка получила эпитет расстегнутая. Вы можете её снять без труда? Вряд ли.
Расстегивайтесь дальше. Вам легче снять рубашку, расстегнув все пуговицы?
Вот также и с палаткою. Аксельрод верно уточняет - сколько пространства получалось от расстегнутых пуговиц входа палатки. Там с большим трудом мог пролезть один турист. Хотя да, она расстегнута.

Я Вам дала понять - насколько транслит изменяет смысл. Тексты с русского языка - нужно переводить с огромным вниманием. У нас - "сто тысяч оттенков русского языка." И надо всегда учитывать все детали, что имеются по данному рассматриваемому вопросу.

Well, let's do a natural experiment. You also have a classic button-down shirt. Dress it up and fasten all the buttons under the tie. This is a variant of a tightly buttoned tent. Unbutton the top two buttons. Your shirt has received the epithet unbuttoned. Can you take it off easily? Unlikely. Unfasten further. Is it easier for you to take off your shirt by unbuttoning all the buttons?
Here, too, with the tent, Axelrod correctly specifies how much space was obtained from the unbuttoned buttons of the tent entrance. One tourist could climb through there with great difficulty. Although yes, it is unbuttoned.

I made it clear to you - how transliteration changes the meaning. Texts from Russian need to be translated with great care. We have "a hundred thousand shades of the Russian language."And we must always take into account all the details that are available on this issue under consideration.