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Author Topic: The cuts in the tent of the Dyatlov group are made for ventilation  (Read 34100 times)

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January 11, 2023, 03:05:24 AM
Reply #30
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Почемучка



the Wolverine went to investigate the smell of ham and will mostly eat the scraps.  The Wolverine didn't go for a fight to kill for food, just being nosey I would guess.
Там местность не даром получила название безжизненной горы. Там дичь может быть только в виде оленей одомашненных и людей их пасущих. Росомаха все это считает пищею.

"Wolverines are ferocious predators that prey mostly on mammals such as rabbits and rodents. They are also scavengers, eating the carrion (carcasses) of large animals such as caribou, deer, and elk to help them through the winter when other food is scarce."

They roam around 15 to 20 miles a day. They will fight bears and wolves and take down a dear when needed.

Igor is not suggesting the hikers were being hunted as food. The Wolverine just got into the tent and got stuck. There are statements to Wolverines doing this in the past. Even waking up a sleeping hiker by licking the face.

The Wolverine will maybe kill a lone moose/ elk for food . But it won't attack a pack of wolves, humans .

Если Вы очень хотите кушать и готовы от голода съесть слона - это вряд ли любопытство. В холодное время года все любопытство определяет - голод. Животные - очень рационально сделанные существа. Они не как человек. Тот может убивать - совершенно не из чувства голода. Все любопытство животных, их интерес к кому-то и чему-то - диктуют простые инстинкты. Хочу жрать - ищу еду. Наелся - ищу логово для отдохнуть.

If you really want to eat and are ready to eat an elephant from hunger, this is hardly curiosity. In the cold season, all curiosity determines - hunger. Animals are very rationally made creatures. They are not like a person. He can kill - not at all out of hunger. All the curiosity of animals, their interest in someone and something - is dictated by simple instincts. I want to eat - I'm looking for food. I'm full - I'm looking for a lair to rest.
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 11, 2023, 03:12:40 AM
Reply #31
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Ziljoe



the Wolverine went to investigate the smell of ham and will mostly eat the scraps.  The Wolverine didn't go for a fight to kill for food, just being nosey I would guess.
Там местность не даром получила название безжизненной горы. Там дичь может быть только в виде оленей одомашненных и людей их пасущих. Росомаха все это считает пищею.

"Wolverines are ferocious predators that prey mostly on mammals such as rabbits and rodents. They are also scavengers, eating the carrion (carcasses) of large animals such as caribou, deer, and elk to help them through the winter when other food is scarce."

They roam around 15 to 20 miles a day. They will fight bears and wolves and take down a dear when needed.

Igor is not suggesting the hikers were being hunted as food. The Wolverine just got into the tent and got stuck. There are statements to Wolverines doing this in the past. Even waking up a sleeping hiker by licking the face.

The Wolverine will maybe kill a lone moose/ elk for food . But it won't attack a pack of wolves, humans .

Если Вы очень хотите кушать и готовы от голода съесть слона - это вряд ли любопытство. В холодное время года все любопытство определяет - голод. Животные - очень рационально сделанные существа. Они не как человек. Тот может убивать - совершенно не из чувства голода. Все любопытство животных. их интерес к кому-то и чему-то - диктуют простые инстинкты. Хочу жрать - ищу еду. Наелся - ищу логово для отдохнуть.

If you really want to eat and are ready to eat an elephant from hunger, this is hardly curiosity. In the cold season, all curiosity determines - hunger. Animals are very rationally made creatures. They are not like a person. He can kill - not at all out of hunger. All the curiosity of animals. their interest in someone and something is dictated by simple instincts. I want to eat - I'm looking for food. I'm full - I'm looking for a lair to rest.

I agree , to a point. But there is always the  risk to need to eat and not if you are going to get killed. I think the Mansi means that a Wolverine will eat dead humans not hunt live ones.

It's here the misinterpretation happens. The over grown rodent eats vegetation too. The Wolverine doesn't hunt humans .

It doesn't need an elephant, 2-6 pounds is enough. If your coming over the pass on your way home and smell cooked food , why not have a look for a free easy meal. Is this not why the Mansi put there labaz in the trees and the hikers buried their caches?. To stop beasts having a free diner?
 

January 11, 2023, 03:14:40 AM
Reply #32
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Почемучка




I agree , to a point. But there is always the  risk to need to eat and not if you are going to get killed. I think the Mansi means that a Wolverine will eat dead humans not hunt live ones.

It's here the misinterpretation happens. The over grown rodent eats vegetation too. The Wolverine doesn't hunt humans .
Росомаха преследует стадо оленей, чтоб дождаться когда ослабленное животное из него вычленится, станет одиночкою. Стадо людей - ровно такое же правило. Люди - более легкая добыча.
Случай на Аляске с одиноким путешественником - говорит о том, что для росомахи он был вполне аппетитною и допустимою добычей.
Wolverine pursues a herd of deer in order to wait until the weakened animal is isolated from it, becomes a loner. A herd of people - exactly the same rule. Humans are easier prey.
The case in Alaska with a lone traveler suggests that for the wolverine he was quite appetizing and acceptable prey.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2023, 03:19:49 AM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 11, 2023, 03:47:40 AM
Reply #33
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Ziljoe




I agree , to a point. But there is always the  risk to need to eat and not if you are going to get killed. I think the Mansi means that a Wolverine will eat dead humans not hunt live ones.

It's here the misinterpretation happens. The over grown rodent eats vegetation too. The Wolverine doesn't hunt humans .
Росомаха преследует стадо оленей, чтоб дождаться когда ослабленное животное из него вычленится, станет одиночкою. Стадо людей - ровно такое же правило. Люди - более легкая добыча.
Случай на Аляске с одиноким путешественником - говорит о том, что для росомахи он был вполне аппетитною и допустимою добычей.
Wolverine pursues a herd of deer in order to wait until the weakened animal is isolated from it, becomes a loner. A herd of people - exactly the same rule. Humans are easier prey.
The case in Alaska with a lone traveler suggests that for the wolverine he was quite appetizing and acceptable prey.


Perhaps but it is only the testimony of this individual being hunted by this Wolverine. If this was a common occurrence it would be in the tourists hand book.

Also it is not what Igor b is putting forward. It is the spray that is the link with the dilated pupils, it is this that prevents the return to the tent. I suppose  it could be argued that the Wolverine tried the ham or pork and hung about the tent so the left but I don't support this.

It is recorded that one of the hikers( forgot which one) . Ran and attacked a bear on a different hike.

The spray , if what happened, also explains the need to find water. In my opinion. It is the links to the statements that raise my thoughts.

I believe it is worthy of futher scrutiny . It's a solid piece of work by Igor b, if you read all his links.
 

January 11, 2023, 04:28:26 AM
Reply #34
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Почемучка



Perhaps but it is only the testimony of this individual being hunted by this Wolverine. If this was a common occurrence it would be in the tourists hand book.

Also it is not what Igor b is putting forward. It is the spray that is the link with the dilated pupils, it is this that prevents the return to the tent. I suppose  it could be argued that the Wolverine tried the ham or pork and hung about the tent so the left but I don't support this.

It is recorded that one of the hikers( forgot which one) . Ran and attacked a bear on a different hike.

The spray , if what happened, also explains the need to find water. In my opinion. It is the links to the statements that raise my thoughts.

I believe it is worthy of futher scrutiny . It's a solid piece of work by Igor b, if you read all his links.

А кто сказал, что в справочнике для туристов - нет совета опасаться хищников? И росомахе не надо преследовать. Ей просто нужно периодически проверять - насколько стадо людей потеряло сплоченность рядов и прийти на запах трупов.

Расширенные зрачки - это не совсем однозначно. Читайте профи
https://www.sudmed.ru/index.php?showtopic=1142
https://forens.ru/topic/668-%D1%83%D0%B7%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5-%D0%B7%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%B8/

And who said that in the guide for tourists - there is no advice to beware of predators? And the wolverine does not have to pursue. She just needs to periodically check how much the herd of people has lost the cohesion of the ranks and come to the smell of corpses.

Dilated pupils - this is not entirely unambiguous. Read the professionals
« Last Edit: January 11, 2023, 04:39:36 AM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 11, 2023, 06:28:48 AM
Reply #35
Offline

GlennM


Perhaps the hikers desired a wolverine hat. Now, who is in danger?
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 
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January 11, 2023, 06:56:45 AM
Reply #36
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Ziljoe




And who said that in the guide for tourists - there is no advice to beware of predators? And the wolverine does not have to pursue. She just needs to periodically check how much the herd of people has lost the cohesion of the ranks and come to the smell of corpses.

Dilated pupils - this is not entirely unambiguous. Read the professionals

I have never come across any records of wolverines stalking humans. I don't think there's been a report ever of a human being killed.

The dilated pupil has variables with the cause of death surly .
 

January 11, 2023, 07:12:40 AM
Reply #37
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Почемучка




I have never come across any records of wolverines stalking humans. I don't think there's been a report ever of a human being killed.

The dilated pupil has variables with the cause of death surly .
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1306.msg20569#msg20569
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 11, 2023, 07:36:34 AM
Reply #38
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Ziljoe




I have never come across any records of wolverines stalking humans. I don't think there's been a report ever of a human being killed.

The dilated pupil has variables with the cause of death surly .
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1306.msg20569#msg20569

Your link provided no talk of wolverine attack on humans. The link says it's harmless but look after your pets.
 

January 11, 2023, 07:48:13 AM
Reply #39
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Почемучка




I have never come across any records of wolverines stalking humans. I don't think there's been a report ever of a human being killed.

The dilated pupil has variables with the cause of death surly .
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1306.msg20569#msg20569

Your link provided no talk of wolverine attack on humans. The link says it's harmless but look after your pets.

Там я прямо цитату привела. Вот эту. Только не переводила.

Quote
Интересные случаи, связанные с росомахой
Росомаха преследовала мужчину на Аляске Это был 38-летний Крейг Джонсон, который в течении трех дней на Аляске пробыл на морозе. Он отправился в поездку, чтобы посетить свою семью на праздники и это путешествие ему надолго запомнилось. 15 декабря Джонсон был на полпути своей 130-киллометровой поездки из города Уэйнрайт в Барроу, когда его снегоход начал тонуть в морском льду. Ледяная вода была ему уже по грудь, когда ему каким-то образом удалось выбраться из воды. Несмотря на промокшую одежду, он начал свой 50-километровый поход, чтобы найти помощь.
По пути росомаха взяла его след и начала преследовать его по всему ледяному простору. Джонсон знал о свирепости этого хищника и о своей уязвимости. Ему казалось, что животное просто играется с ним, ждет удачного момента, чтобы напасть на него. Он часто слышал, как она скребется когтями о лед. После предупредительных выстрелов животное не ушло прочь, Джонсон был вынужден защищаться палкой.
Quote

Interesting Cases Related to Wolverine
Wolverine chased a man in Alaska It was 38-year-old Craig Johnson, who spent three days in Alaska in the cold. He went on a trip to visit his family for the holidays and this trip he will remember for a long time. On December 15, Johnson was halfway through his 130-kilometer drive from Wainwright to Barrow when his snowmobile began to sink into the sea ice. The icy water was already up to his chest when he somehow managed to get out of the water. Despite his wet clothes, he began his 50-kilometer hike to find help.
Along the way, the wolverine took his trail and began to pursue him throughout the icy expanse. Johnson was aware of the ferocity of this predator and his own vulnerability. It seemed to him that the animal was just playing with him, waiting for the right moment to attack him. He often heard her scratching her claws on the ice. After warning shots, the animal did not go away, Johnson was forced to defend himself with a stick

https://time.com/3648299/survivor-3-days-alaska-wolverine/
https://people.com/celebrity/craig-johnson-survives-alaska-wilderness-wolverine-attack/
« Last Edit: January 11, 2023, 07:56:26 AM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 12, 2023, 09:25:58 AM
Reply #40
Offline

Олег Таймень


Прошу конспирологическими версиями тему не засорять
If a mountain comes towards you, and you are not Mohammed, then it is a rockfall.
 

January 12, 2023, 09:31:25 AM
Reply #41
Offline

Олег Таймень


Второй вариант разрезания палатки - убийственная конструкция дымохода печи.
Трубу печи нужно направлять по ветру, иначе возникнет обратная тяга и палатка начнёт наполняться дымом.
Особенно опасно ночью, когда может произойти изменение направления ветра. Дым можно во сне не почувствовать и наглотаться. Проснувшись, можно в панике разрезать палатку для экстренной вентиляции
The second option for cutting the tent is the killer design of the stove chimney.
The stove pipe must be directed into the wind, otherwise there will be a reverse draft and the tent will begin to fill with smoke.
It is especially dangerous at night when a change in wind direction can occur. You can not feel the smoke in a dream and swallow it. Waking up, in a panic, you can cut the tent for emergency ventilation







Видео по теме, кто не понимает, о чём речь: https://youtu.be/Mt_-MpC73Dw?t=45


« Last Edit: January 12, 2023, 09:40:31 AM by Олег Таймень »
If a mountain comes towards you, and you are not Mohammed, then it is a rockfall.
 

January 12, 2023, 01:12:14 PM
Reply #42
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GlennM


In this example, we are informed of how a smokestack that is not adjusted for wind direction can produce life threatening vapors. These vapors require emergency action such as cutting the tent. The how explains the why. Progress is made.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 
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January 12, 2023, 01:42:38 PM
Reply #43
Offline

Ziljoe


Hi Олег Таймень

Is the explanation saying that the smoke is blown back into the tent if the pipe is at the wrong angle and the pipe must be vertical? Or that the pipe be pointed in the direction of the wind?
 

January 12, 2023, 09:11:43 PM
Reply #44
Offline

Почемучка


In this example, we are informed of how a smokestack that is not adjusted for wind direction can produce life threatening vapors. These vapors require emergency action such as cutting the tent. The how explains the why. Progress is made.
Только печкою на этой стоянке на склоне 1079 - не пользовались. Она как была в мешке-упаковке, так и досталась поисковикам. С щепочками на растопку внутри и трубами.
Only the stove at this parking lot on slope 1079 was not used. She was in a bag-packing, and went to the search engines. With chips for kindling inside and pipes.
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 12, 2023, 09:14:45 PM
Reply #45
Offline

Почемучка


Hi Олег Таймень

Is the explanation saying that the smoke is blown back into the tent if the pipe is at the wrong angle and the pipe must be vertical? Or that the pipe be pointed in the direction of the wind?

Вы не видите, что Таймень - жульничает? Он дает Вам фото из похода на Приполярный Урал 1958 года. И убеждает видеть в нем аналог установки палатки на склоне 1079 в 1959 году. Для установки печи - нужны дополнительные упоры из лыж. Где это на фото обнаружения палатки в 1959 году?
Don't you see that Taimen is cheating? He gives you a photo from a trip to the Subpolar Urals in 1958. And he convinces us to see in it an analogue of setting up a tent on slope 1079 in 1959. To install the stove - you need additional stops from skis. Where is this in the photo of the discovery of the tent in 1959?
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 12, 2023, 09:58:54 PM
Reply #46
Offline

Олег Таймень


Hi Олег Таймень

Is the explanation saying that the smoke is blown back into the tent if the pipe is at the wrong angle and the pipe must be vertical? Or that the pipe be pointed in the direction of the wind?
Да, именно так.
1. Труба не должна иметь горизонтальных земле элементов трубы.
2. Если труба выходит из палатки под углом, то последнее колено всё равно должно быть строго вертикально вверх.
Тогда можно минимизировать возможность обратной тяги.
У печи группы Дятлова существует реальная опасность обратной тяги. Если это произошло вечером, когда группа не спит, то можно сразу выйти и развернуть трубу по ветру, проветрив палатку. Если группа спит, то в темноте очень сложно сообразить, что следует делать при быстром и сильном задымлении палатки и велика вероятность, что её разрезали для скорой вентиляции
Yes exactly.
1. The pipe must not have pipe elements horizontal to the ground.
2. If the pipe comes out of the tent at an angle, then the last knee should still be strictly vertically up.
Then you can minimize the possibility of reverse thrust.
The furnace of the Dyatlov group has a real danger of back draft. If this happened in the evening, when the group is awake, then you can immediately go out and turn the pipe into the wind, airing the tent. If the group is sleeping, then in the dark it is very difficult to figure out what should be done with a quick and strong smoke from the tent, and it is likely that it was cut for emergency ventilation.
If a mountain comes towards you, and you are not Mohammed, then it is a rockfall.
 

January 12, 2023, 10:04:22 PM
Reply #47
Offline

Олег Таймень


Hi Олег Таймень

Is the explanation saying that the smoke is blown back into the tent if the pipe is at the wrong angle and the pipe must be vertical? Or that the pipe be pointed in the direction of the wind?

Вы не видите, что Таймень - жульничает? Он дает Вам фото из похода на Приполярный Урал 1958 года. И убеждает видеть в нем аналог установки палатки на склоне 1079 в 1959 году. Для установки печи - нужны дополнительные упоры из лыж. Где это на фото обнаружения палатки в 1959 году?
Don't you see that Taimen is cheating? He gives you a photo from a trip to the Subpolar Urals in 1958. And he convinces us to see in it an analogue of setting up a tent on slope 1079 in 1959. To install the stove - you need additional stops from skis. Where is this in the photo of the discovery of the tent in 1959?
А я нигде и не утверждал, что два небольших разреза изнутри были сделаны именно на склоне Халатчахля. Это могло быть сделано раньше. Это во первых. А во вторых, у меня нет фотографий наклона трубы, выведенной из палатки именно в этом походе
And I never claimed anywhere that two small cuts from the inside were made precisely on the slope of Halatchakhl. This could have been done before. This is first. And secondly, I don’t have photos of the slope of the pipe taken out of the tent on this particular trip.
If a mountain comes towards you, and you are not Mohammed, then it is a rockfall.
 

January 12, 2023, 10:12:36 PM
Reply #48
Offline

Олег Таймень


Эта тема единственная объясняет разрезы палатки, сделанные изнутри. Разрезы настолько малы, что в них невозможно вылезти одетому человеку. Так же эти разрезы сильно велики, чтобы сделать их для возможных наблюдений за склоном, как это утверждается в некоторых версиях. Одного разреза 10 сантиметров было бы вполне достаточно чтобы в него смотреть и не выстужать палатку без затопленной печи
This topic is the only one that explains the cuts of the tent made from the inside. The cuts are so small that it is impossible for a dressed person to get out of them. Also, these sections are too large to make them for possible observations of the slope, as stated in some versions. One cut of 10 centimeters would be quite enough to look into it and not to cool the tent without a flooded stove
If a mountain comes towards you, and you are not Mohammed, then it is a rockfall.
 

January 12, 2023, 10:26:24 PM
Reply #49
Offline

Почемучка


Эта тема единственная объясняет разрезы палатки, сделанные изнутри. Разрезы настолько малы, что в них невозможно вылезти одетому человеку. Так же эти разрезы сильно велики, чтобы сделать их для возможных наблюдений за склоном, как это утверждается в некоторых версиях. Одного разреза 10 сантиметров было бы вполне достаточно чтобы в него смотреть и не выстужать палатку без затопленной печи
This topic is the only one that explains the cuts of the tent made from the inside. The cuts are so small that it is impossible for a dressed person to get out of them. Also, these sections are too large to make them for possible observations of the slope, as stated in some versions. One cut of 10 centimeters would be quite enough to look into it and not to cool the tent without a flooded stove
Вам Игорь Б. совершенно верно напоминал, что для палатки Дятлова - постоянно требовалась починка в пути. П.И.Бартоломей узнал в ней прожженные в походе 1958 года - дырочки. Она и так была с щелево-дырочным проветриванием от ветхости. Как дуршлаг. Такую палатку не стоит дополнительно резать. Ибо можно довести до совсем безнадежного состояния.
А если еще вспомнить - что мокрая непросушенная палатка при сворачивании может смерзаться и потом ломаться, что описано во многих туристических отчетах. А еще нужно помнить что при топке печки  - жар  так воздействует на нити волокна, что оно истлевает.
Так про что Вы тут тему тянете?

Igor B. quite rightly reminded you that for the Dyatlov tent, repairs were constantly required on the way. P.I.Bartolomey recognized in it the holes burned in the campaign of 1958. She was already with slot-hole ventilation from dilapidation. Like a colander. Such a tent should not be further cut. For it can be brought to a completely hopeless state.

And if you also remember - that a wet, not dried tent, when rolled up, can freeze and then break, which is described in many tourist reports. And you also need to remember that when the stove is fired, the heat affects the fiber threads in such a way that it decays.
So what are you talking about here?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2023, 10:31:23 PM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 13, 2023, 12:28:44 AM
Reply #50
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Олег Таймень


Эта тема единственная объясняет разрезы палатки, сделанные изнутри. Разрезы настолько малы, что в них невозможно вылезти одетому человеку. Так же эти разрезы сильно велики, чтобы сделать их для возможных наблюдений за склоном, как это утверждается в некоторых версиях. Одного разреза 10 сантиметров было бы вполне достаточно чтобы в него смотреть и не выстужать палатку без затопленной печи
This topic is the only one that explains the cuts of the tent made from the inside. The cuts are so small that it is impossible for a dressed person to get out of them. Also, these sections are too large to make them for possible observations of the slope, as stated in some versions. One cut of 10 centimeters would be quite enough to look into it and not to cool the tent without a flooded stove
Вам Игорь Б. совершенно верно напоминал, что для палатки Дятлова - постоянно требовалась починка в пути. П.И.Бартоломей узнал в ней прожженные в походе 1958 года - дырочки. Она и так была с щелево-дырочным проветриванием от ветхости. Как дуршлаг. Такую палатку не стоит дополнительно резать. Ибо можно довести до совсем безнадежного состояния.
А если еще вспомнить - что мокрая непросушенная палатка при сворачивании может смерзаться и потом ломаться, что описано во многих туристических отчетах. А еще нужно помнить что при топке печки  - жар  так воздействует на нити волокна, что оно истлевает.
Так про что Вы тут тему тянете?

Igor B. quite rightly reminded you that for the Dyatlov tent, repairs were constantly required on the way. P.I.Bartolomey recognized in it the holes burned in the campaign of 1958. She was already with slot-hole ventilation from dilapidation. Like a colander. Such a tent should not be further cut. For it can be brought to a completely hopeless state.

And if you also remember - that a wet, not dried tent, when rolled up, can freeze and then break, which is described in many tourist reports. And you also need to remember that when the stove is fired, the heat affects the fiber threads in such a way that it decays.
So what are you talking about here?
Ничего там не требовалось до выхода выше зоны леса. Только на верхах появляется опасность того, что сильный ветер начнёт рвать палатку и она поползёт по небольшим дыркам. Если бы, край из носа, что-то требовалось то, я вас уверяю, починили бы ещё в Екатеринбурге. И не нужно меня в записи дневников тыкать, я их читал. У меня своя голова, свой опыт и свои знания. Я вижу разницу между написанным и реальностью. Эти дырки хоть немного вентилировали палатку от возникновения конденсата, поэтому и чинить её никто особо не торопился. Но, починить всё же было необходимо. Вентиляция должна быть большая и контролируемая. А Игорю порекомендовал бы сходить хотя бы в зимний поход выходного дня. На одну ночь. Сразу возникнет и понимание и озарение по многим нюансам
Nothing was required there until the exit above the forest zone. Only at the top there is a danger that a strong wind will start tearing the tent and it will crawl through small holes. If, the edge of the nose, something was required, I assure you, they would have repaired it in Yekaterinburg. And you don’t need to poke me in the diary entries, I read them. I have my own head, my own experience and my own knowledge. I see the difference between writing and reality. These holes ventilated the tent at least a little from the occurrence of condensate, so no one was in a particular hurry to repair it. But, it still needed to be fixed. Ventilation should be large and controlled. And I would recommend Igor to go at least on a weekend winter hike. For one night. Immediately there will be understanding and insight in many nuances
If a mountain comes towards you, and you are not Mohammed, then it is a rockfall.
 

January 13, 2023, 01:17:44 AM
Reply #51
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Почемучка



Ничего там не требовалось до выхода выше зоны леса. Только на верхах появляется опасность того, что сильный ветер начнёт рвать палатку и она поползёт по небольшим дыркам. Если бы, край из носа, что-то требовалось то, я вас уверяю, починили бы ещё в Екатеринбурге. И не нужно меня в записи дневников тыкать, я их читал. У меня своя голова, свой опыт и свои знания. Я вижу разницу между написанным и реальностью. Эти дырки хоть немного вентилировали палатку от возникновения конденсата, поэтому и чинить её никто особо не торопился. Но, починить всё же было необходимо. Вентиляция должна быть большая и контролируемая. А Игорю порекомендовал бы сходить хотя бы в зимний поход выходного дня. На одну ночь. Сразу возникнет и понимание и озарение по многим нюансам
Nothing was required there until the exit above the forest zone. Only at the top there is a danger that a strong wind will start tearing the tent and it will crawl through small holes. If, the edge of the nose, something was required, I assure you, they would have repaired it in Yekaterinburg. And you don’t need to poke me in the diary entries, I read them. I have my own head, my own experience and my own knowledge. I see the difference between writing and reality. These holes ventilated the tent at least a little from the occurrence of condensate, so no one was in a particular hurry to repair it. But, it still needed to be fixed. Ventilation should be large and controlled. And I would recommend Igor to go at least on a weekend winter hike. For one night. Immediately there will be understanding and insight in many nuances

Ага, озаритесь, плиз,  смыслом написанного здесь
Yeah, light up, pliz, the meaning of what is written here
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-29-30?rbid=17743

« Last Edit: January 13, 2023, 01:24:14 AM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 13, 2023, 02:25:51 AM
Reply #52
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Missi


The problem of condensation and ventilation is an interesting one I haven't thought about until now. Yet it is one the group probably would have solved during other hikes and at the latest during the first nights. At least in my opinion. The tend would have been wet in the morning after sleeping in it as well after the first nights, giving the problem of damage through freezing.

As for the idea of bad ventilation: May I recall that the stove was not put together and therefore not used during the night on the mountain? This renders that theory useless, unfortunately. Sorry.
 

January 13, 2023, 08:54:50 AM
Reply #53
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Игорь Б.


А Игорю порекомендовал бы сходить хотя бы в зимний поход выходного дня. На одну ночь.
Сходил. На одну ночь. Палатка не пострадала:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=78572
An example of the impact of chemical weapons of a skunk (wolverine) in a tent:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=117054
 

January 13, 2023, 12:22:04 PM
Reply #54
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Олег Таймень


А Игорю порекомендовал бы сходить хотя бы в зимний поход выходного дня. На одну ночь.
Сходил. На одну ночь. Палатка не пострадала:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=78572
Открой всю вентиляцию, какая есть в палатке и не укрывайся с головой, дыши наружу, какой бы не был мороз. Хоть -50 Тогда всё будет сухо и комфортно. Как в прокладках хагис
If a mountain comes towards you, and you are not Mohammed, then it is a rockfall.
 

January 15, 2023, 11:30:11 AM
Reply #55
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Олег Таймень


Does anyone have evidence that the Dyatlov group stoked the stove at night and appointed a night duty officer for this purpose?
My opinion is that the stove was heated only in the evening and in the morning. And sometimes they didn’t heat at all, they managed with a fire. And the duties of the duty officer were to kindle the furnace, nothing more ..
У кого-нибудь есть доказательства, что группа Дятлова топила ночью печь и назначала для этой цели ночного дежурного ?
Моё мнение, что печь топилась только вечером и утром. А иногда вообще не топилась, обходились костром. И обязанности дежурного заключались в растопке печи, не более того..
If a mountain comes towards you, and you are not Mohammed, then it is a rockfall.
 

January 15, 2023, 08:22:28 PM
Reply #56
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ilahiyol


- They can't need a ventilation hole on a mountain slope at 10 degrees. The tent takes enough air from the smallest places, even from the seams. So far, no traveler has been able to dig a hole in his tent to ventilate. Because it is not needed. The only option was to drill a hole to see something outside the tent....And they knew beforehand about this unknown power. Because it bothered them. And they had fled from the forest to the mountain. So they were afraid of him and instead of opening the door of the tent and looking at him, they made a hole in the tent and looked at it.
 

January 15, 2023, 08:56:21 PM
Reply #57
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Loose}{Cannon

Administrator
Эта тема единственная объясняет разрезы палатки, сделанные изнутри. Разрезы настолько малы, что в них невозможно вылезти одетому человеку. Так же эти разрезы сильно велики, чтобы сделать их для возможных наблюдений за склоном, как это утверждается в некоторых версиях. Одного разреза 10 сантиметров было бы вполне достаточно чтобы в него смотреть и не выстужать палатку без затопленной печи
This topic is the only one that explains the cuts of the tent made from the inside. The cuts are so small that it is impossible for a dressed person to get out of them. Also, these sections are too large to make them for possible observations of the slope, as stated in some versions. One cut of 10 centimeters would be quite enough to look into it and not to cool the tent without a flooded stove

Except that the first searchers to reach the tent tore it open looking inside, and later after the contents were removed, the tent was dug/chipped out of the frozen tundra with ice shovels.  Is it not possible to tear back material and then it be cut on the inside which has just become the outside?  🤔

Don’t forget that the tent was then dragged something like 1/2 mile over jagged rocks and ice to the helicopter LZ.  And a common seamstress tells us the fantasy of slashing their way out.  🤨
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!
 

January 15, 2023, 09:50:00 PM
Reply #58
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RMK


Эта тема единственная объясняет разрезы палатки, сделанные изнутри. Разрезы настолько малы, что в них невозможно вылезти одетому человеку. Так же эти разрезы сильно велики, чтобы сделать их для возможных наблюдений за склоном, как это утверждается в некоторых версиях. Одного разреза 10 сантиметров было бы вполне достаточно чтобы в него смотреть и не выстужать палатку без затопленной печи
This topic is the only one that explains the cuts of the tent made from the inside. The cuts are so small that it is impossible for a dressed person to get out of them. Also, these sections are too large to make them for possible observations of the slope, as stated in some versions. One cut of 10 centimeters would be quite enough to look into it and not to cool the tent without a flooded stove

Except that the first searchers to reach the tent tore it open looking inside, and later after the contents were removed, the tent was dug/chipped out of the frozen tundra with ice shovels.  Is it not possible to tear back material and then it be cut on the inside which has just become the outside?  🤔

Don’t forget that the tent was then dragged something like 1/2 mile over jagged rocks and ice to the helicopter LZ.  And a common seamstress tells us the fantasy of slashing their way out.  🤨
I agree.  The evidentiary value of that tent may well have been completely obliterated by the way the search parties handled it.

(As an aside, I also have some major concerns about the evidentiary value of "the den".)
 

January 15, 2023, 09:51:52 PM
Reply #59
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Зайцев


Does anyone have evidence that the Dyatlov group stoked the stove at night and appointed a night duty officer for this purpose?
My opinion is that the stove was heated only in the evening and in the morning. And sometimes they didn’t heat at all, they managed with a fire. And the duties of the duty officer were to kindle the furnace, nothing more ..
У кого-нибудь есть доказательства, что группа Дятлова топила ночью печь и назначала для этой цели ночного дежурного ?
Моё мнение, что печь топилась только вечером и утром. А иногда вообще не топилась, обходились костром. И обязанности дежурного заключались в растопке печи, не более того..
Вполне возможно, если температура теплее -20 градусов. Это при наличии спальников. Учитывая, что мы точно не знаем насколько эффективно работали одеяла вместо спальников, то нужно эту отметку изменить на -10 градусов.
It is quite possible if the temperature is warmer than -20 degrees. This is with sleeping bags. Considering that we do not know exactly how effective blankets worked instead of sleeping bags, we need to change this mark to -10 degrees.
Шапокляк сдвинутая старуха

The most documented version of the "Battle Mole Ricochet" at the link: https://dyatlovpass1.ru/viewtopic.php?id=6#p11