Reply #100 October 30, 2020, 08:13:41 AM
Dear Per Inge Oestmoen
I think we are in agreement on this important starting point:The nine hikers were killed by determined other human beings.
Afterwards I am not sure of anything ; I only have suspicions (which are directed towards NKVD state servants who were losing their privileges because of Khrushchev's thaw and desalinization).
Here are some considerations.
1 - No interrogation or questioning was required in order to perform a preventive killing operation to remove the risk.
In 1959 one could imagine a lot of secret research on technologies that could be of interest or promising perspectives, especially in the industrial and space fields and in the domain of new weapons (Examples: Dimensioning of plutonium parts in nuclear warheads - Composition of chemical explosives and missile fuels - Titanium metallurgy...etc....etc.
But in 2020, even if we cannot know much about the classified technical descriptions of the USSR (and then Russia), we know more about the activities that could have been secret in 1959.
Indeed, in all countries of the world, the reinforced forces voluntarily exhibit some indications that are verifiable, to show their strength (and possibly sell them to other friendly countries).
Some recent examples taken at random : https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/12/24/putin-says-russia-is-leading-world-in-hypersonic-weapons/ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43239331 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/world/europe/russia-putin-speech.html
In addition the various departments of other countries publish (some of) their own assumptions about the confidential activities of the USSR and now Russia.
In 2020, without further details, I cannot believe that the hikers were observing something (what?) that would have made it necessary for the KGB to kill the hikers immediately.
2 - the KGB was also experts in orchestrating "suicides," "accidents" "heart attacks" and other "natural deaths
But these deaths were do not look like "accidents," "suicides" or "natural deaths."
If it was the KGB that was the cause of the attack, the KGB would have had the professionalism, the time and the means to arrange the theater of action a little better (Kholat Syakhl, Cedar, Den...).
For example, the KGB could easily have :
Bring back the 9 corpses in the tent - completely demolish the tent - put some snow on over the tent ---> and it was more than enough for the investigators to conclude without making a fool of themselves...
A slab of snow slipped and the 9 hikers died crushed and suffocated because the location of the tent was badly chosen on the slope of the Kholat Syakhl."
Or the investigators could have said: the 9 hikers crossed a frozen river, the ice suddenly and treatably broke, the current dragged them under the ice sheet and being bothered by their heavy backpacks the hikers were found long afterwards, all drowned.
On the contrary, on February 26th, the rescuers found the scene in complete disorder, with a large number of inexplicable and mysterious clues (the late cedar Den, etc.).
The result is very bad. The DPI has not been forgotten in 1 or 2 years as a closed case that has received a plausible explanation (if not perfectly convincing).
Instead, as of February 26, rescuers and investigators discover a scene that is difficult to interpret,
which is conducive to awakening all sorts of implausible explanations and suspicions.
There are far too many findings that are or appear to be enigmas, (the state of the tent, the corpses in the slope, the fire, the Den, the cedar...).
This is really a catastrophic result for a coverup,
since 60 years after the incident a lot of people are talking about it and asking questions all over the world.
My conclusion is that this is not the work of competent and well-equipped professionals. It is impossible that the KGB is responsible for such a bad job.
I add that the immediate killing of the hikers would have been completely contrary to KGB practice. It would have been much simpler and safer to arrest them on their return to : Vizhay ... Ivdel ... Sverdlovsk and interrogate them for a few months in a secret prison.
The hikers were not unattainable opponents or fugitives abroad, but on the contrary, honest and respectful citizens who would have gone to the police station on their own by simple summons. Then the hikers could have been arrested and if necessary skillfully tortured in secret and adapted premises to force them to confess everything they knew.
Indeed there was at least one coincidence that was suspicious - or that pointed to a bad organization somewhere - the hikers arrived exactly on February 1 at the place where a secret phenomenon appeared ??
The fundamental principle of a powerful security service like the KGB is not to kill (the guilty, suspects, enemies ...) too quickly because nobody knows the future.
Remember these examples. Nikolay Zolotariov:Arrest=April 14,1943 and Execution=August 24,1943 - Lavrentiy Beria: Arrest=June 26,1953 and Execution=December 23,1953.
I repeat: certainly the KGB was known for its unscrupulous and its effectiveness. But the KGB would never have made the enormous mistake
of killing the hikers before having questioned them at length in suitable premises.
3 - the Mansi evidently were silenced in a very effective way
From what is known about Mansis' suddenly lifted accusation, it is indeed possible that this may be a subtle intimidation to force them to keep silent about anything they might have seen from January 28th (by watching their animal traps ?).
It is also possible that there were no Mansi who moved near the tent on the Kholat Syakhl during the entire month of February.
Indeed Kholat Syakhl means "dead mountain", which means almost "mountain without any interest".
And the Mansis did not lack useful and interesting activities by staying comfortably at home.
Rather than wasting time wandering around in snowstorms like those foolish Russian city dwellers....
4 - Secret activities like weapons testing are observable
It seems that the hikers did not have some specialized measuring devices. A simple visual observation would not have provided any significant useful data.
Photographs might have been more revealing, but then it would have been sufficient for the KGB to confiscate the cameras. Or even more simply to veil (destroy) the films.
In 1959 CIA probably did not know much about what was going on in the plants in the Urals because there were not many US spies in this well guarded area. However, the CIA certainly already knew much more than the intelligent people like advanced technical students
would have observed on the slopes of the Kholat Syakhl.
Whatever the nine "very much capable of understanding what they observed"
, I cannot believe, in 2020, that the hikers' observations could have been a significant threat to the state security.
5 - The fact that the Soviet and later Russian authorities obviously lie about what caused the tragedy, is proof that they hide something.
Yes ! It is obvious : they hide something.
And even this may be one of the reasons why so many implausible hypotheses can be read. As if the goal was to confuse the research and make it difficult for those who want to find a rational explanation for DPI...
the whole operation had to be orchestrated to look like an accident
BUT the fact is that the result does not look like an accident at all !
the Soviet authorities cut the investigation short and ordered that the investigation be closed
Yes ! it is indisputable.
with the conclusion that it was an accident.
In spite of their serious nature, Russians are cheerful guys with a fine subtle sense of humor.
It is with their absurd conclusion that they make the whole world laugh.
The fact that the Soviet and later Russian authorities obviously lie about what caused the tragedy, is proof that they hide something.
Yes, they hide something.
That something is likely their own decision to kill.
NO ! NO ! On the contrary that something is likely the stupidity of the KGB for not having been able to protect the hikers.
And the incompetence of the KGB for not having understood the danger represented by the different categories of opponents that remained in the Vizhay region.
To admit to the carefully planned murder of nine elite members of society, would create political turmoil even today.
Yes ! Even today Putin wants to make people forget the misdeeds of the Stalinist period (1929-1953).
As an important political leader, he is not necessarily wrong.
6 - They were highly educated and trained people, their personnel were mostly selected from the best of the best.
I have no doubt that the KGB was "the most competent, intelligent and formidable intelligence agency known to Man."
But their personnel mostly selected from the best of the best
were men and not unfailing gods: the KGB could sometimes be mistaken.
And the KGB would rather hide its failures........
I am beginning to understand that Those who orchestrated and accomplished the mission.
• had a good tactics to dominate and defeat in the night combat.
• had no firearms.
• were few in number.
• probably received big punches into their faces.
To sum up, I do not know exactly which killer Commando attacked the 9 hikers, but I am convinced that it is not the KGB (which would never have done such a pitiful "job"
Currently, I am beginning to direct my suspicions to former Gulag camp guards located in the Vizhay region, see :
Jean Daniel Reuss : Factual Information ==> Materials Modern ==> Publications/Media ==> Ivdellag breaks in 1959
--> September 19, 2020, 10:12:00 AM ; Reply #1 https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=714.msg10800#msg10800
Infra-sound/Gravity fluctuation/Teleportation => Infrasound? Most unlikely. Reply #95 https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=116.msg10931#msg10931
It is also necessary to examine in details other promising hypotheses
• A hunting activity by civil servants using a helicopter without authorization.
• Illegal trafficking of gold mined in northern Vizhay.
• Encounter with American spies - This is what can be called the Rakitin category - And the sky-hook was operational as early as 1958 ....
• The "Dubinina mystery" who changes her attitude on February 26th and seems to suffer a big disillusionment 2 days after, the 28th, at North-2.
Dear Per Inge Oestmoen: Since you are here with a Russian flag I assume that you know the Russian language (which unfortunately I do not know).
I think it would be possible to find very useful information on websites written in Russian. I especially noticed :
The "Criminal" section of the forum taina.li https://taina.li/forum/index.php?board=112.0
Aleks Kandr himself; (fortunately Aleks Kandr almost never uses his absurd astrological nonsense when he writes about DPI). http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova https://taina.li/forum/index.php?topic=1002.0
I prefer to leave this topic 23.0 of "indeed MOST UNLIKELY Infrasound" to pursue my argumentation and opinions on the logically appropriate topic: