It would be really cool if you had weatherproof cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions with a live stream! I'd pay at least $20 to access that lol. You never know, you could catch a slab avalanche, katabatic winds, or an elk migration. Stay safe!Setting up a live camera is not new. Check this post: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1626.msg24873#msg24873
Teddy, as you well know there is a lot of discussion about the steepness of the slope the tent may have been pitched on. Also, those who believe it was always on 1079 dispute the angle of the slope. There is the angle of the hillside, but there is a much steeper angle of the tent had a foundation cut into a ledge in the snow.
Perhaps if your smart phone has an inclinometer built in, you could download an app that would permit you to find both the natural angle of the slope as well as the steeper angle from the floor of the ledge to the peak of 1079.
Perhaps with your information, forum members can rule avalanches and slab slides in or out of consideration. Tks.
I am thinking that if 1079 means "nothing goes there", then why would they hunt where nothing goes there?1079 = Kholat Syakhl = Dead Mountain
Perhaps today's Mansi can help us understand what their parents and grandparents did to survive their hunts away from home.
It would be really cool if you had weatherproof cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions with a live stream! I'd pay at least $20 to access that lol. You never know, you could catch a slab avalanche, katabatic winds, or an elk migration. Stay safe!Setting up a live camera is not new. Check this post: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1626.msg24873#msg24873
Lets discuss this realistically, because if it keeps coming up I could discuss it wit the Russians.
Note the main difference in both suggestions. Ziljoe means the ravine. This is where I also think the tragedy happened, where the bodies were found, and the coroner says that 3 of them couldn't move or be moved after the trauma. While OLD JEDI 72 "cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions". To catch a snow slab/avalanche it has to be where the tent was. But there is nothing there to put a camera on top. No stone, no tree, nothing. Where do you think a camera should be mounted. And I am not familiar with the technology nowadays but what does it mean "pointing in all four directions"?
Help me process the idea, where should the camera be, what to point at, who is going to change the batteries, is it a motion activated or what?
The outlier rock is too far away from both the tent location and the ravine. It is the only thing sticking out, but it is useless for a camera to be mounted. You can see how small the snowmobiles look from the distance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJnzi3_3vy4
A camera mounted to the cedar at roughly the same height as the Yuri's climbed, pointed towards the tent would be surreal. Their POV. shock1
Here are 3 playlists from 3 different winters.
All 3 playlists contain footage of the ravine.
Winter expedition 2023
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYXGTlOLpQ4tRpFBQA8Sv0e6cqA2YmcOL&si=tknviER0XCh7ICfW
Winter expedition 2015
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX6-CuVdsR8399eeEQOt_q9TcvgMwxeqd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9vhQ_RBndY
This video was posted for the last week on the DyatlovPass.com home page.
You can find similar videos of the ravine from the last 10-15 years.
You can talk to the people that took the videos, they measure the snow cover, temperature, wind.
We have this information.
We also have the photos from February 1959 so we know how deep the snow was, we see how much the trees roots were covered.
The snow in the ravine is deep but "рыхлый", which translates as light, loose, not heavy and wet.
Oleg Taymen says that he can't see how snow like that can cause any injuries or suffocate you.
It also makes sense why someone climbed the cedar (flesh shows someone did), to see if they could see the flashlight over that ridge imo.
3. Is a snow cornice observed at the ravine?
What do the two flags side by side represent and various other flags?
Also do you have a video of say a drone (winter or summer) flying the same route from tent to cedar to ravine?
What do the two flags side by side represent and various other flags?
Also do you have a video of say a drone (winter or summer) flying the same route from tent to cedar to ravine?
I'll watch the latest one, thank you. The part I was referring to is on the ascent (can't find it on the descent) at 3:58 where the flags are side to side. It makes sense if that's a ridge. It also helps knowing the three who attempted to return were still in sort of the forest even though on diagrams it seems they are out of the forest. It never made sense to me why Dyatlov's corpse had trees around it until now.
Thanks for the info on Ivanov, I do tend to think orbs or fireballs have a modern explanation (and don't mean aliens or angels) and find him and his info intriguing given who he was in the case. Tree tops burned etc.
I'll watch the latest one, thank you. The part I was referring to is on the ascent (can't find it on the descent) at 3:58 where the flags are side to side. It makes sense if that's a ridge. It also helps knowing the three who attempted to return were still in sort of the forest even though on diagrams it seems they are out of the forest. It never made sense to me why Dyatlov's corpse had trees around it until now.
This is where Slobodin's body was found. Stone ridges 1-2-3 from Maslennikov's drawing are on the open slope, no trees.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Slobodin-body.jpg)
https://youtu.be/4qpJi6iNWF0?si=tH6INuSkNCoe1FSM&t=238Thanks for the info on Ivanov, I do tend to think orbs or fireballs have a modern explanation (and don't mean aliens or angels) and find him and his info intriguing given who he was in the case. Tree tops burned etc.
I can not judge Lev Ivanov as a professional given the regime and whatever (read https://dyatlovpass.com/ivanov-resolution) but what he did with this article is much worse that what he did with the case in 1959. The thing about flesh on the bark of the tree is complete nonsense. When they found the last four bodies Lev Ivanov didn't even come close to the bodies, Askinadzi is a witness. What kind of investigator is this and why should you repeat what he said 30 years later in an article? Where is the document, or a photo of the so called "flesh on the bark of the cedar"? Lev Ivanov left us with a case that has more holes than a Swiss cheese.
Although it seems like I am trashing Lev Ivanov there are two things I give him kudos for, and they show he had put some thought (see 1.) and feelings (see 2.) into this case:
1. Why did he order radioactive tests on the last four bodies?
2. After 25 year all the evidence should be destroyed, but still he kept the films from the Dyatlov group cameras at his home. In 2009 his daughter Aleksandra Lvovna Ivanova gave the films to Aleksey Koskin and Yuri Kuntsevich.
A Mansi chum (definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chum_(tent))) was observed North-East from where Dyatlov group pitched their tent on the night of January 30. A trail leading to the chum was passing 200 feet from where they camped.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/11-011.jpg)
This construction is referred to as chum and was found 1 km from the tent according to Cheglakov's testimony (https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-44-45).
Vladimir Androsov, Mansi ethnologist, commented in an interview (https://samlib.ru/p/piskarewa_m_l/beseda_s_androsovym.shtml#ri13) on this particular photo:
"At this place a moose was killed. I can tell that it was killed and not dead because both antlers are together. When moose shed their antlers of age, they scratch on trees and usually loose them one by one. Mansi hunters left meat at that place and since the terrain is all the same around they put up a sign visible from far away. Or they might have taken the meat with them and marked the place to come and hunt again. It's just a sign. The long stick on the left is a trochee. The moose was killed in autumn. Not sure why did they leave the trochee (the long stick propped on the left side)."
I have asked Valery Anyamov about this photo and he confirmed what Androsov said. Nothing else to add.
There would be no secret testing in a hunting area .
As for Chum; The field of view in the forest is very short (rough) and in order to hunt, the game animal must come within 50 meters of you. They notice you and don't come that close. Due to the density of snow, your tracking ability in the forest decreases. If the chum skeleton made in the open is wrapped with a tarpaulin, you can wait for your prey inside, protected from the wind, all day long. You have the chance to see animal movements in 4 directions up to 1 km.
I think we can define Chum as a temporary base where animals expelled from the forest can easily hunt in open areas. The horn on top is a natural precaution to prevent the trees from being scattered left and right by the wind, and the wire is too valuable a material to be left in the forest.
I think we keep going to the pass anticipating something to happen. Having a plan is ok, but you are at the mercy of the Mountain.
You can't take your experiments seriously because the Mountain will kill you in many ways.
I go there like going to a casino. This is my Russian roulette.
The Russians are discussing going to Otorten following Dyatlov's original plan.
This a very risky plan, considering they can be forced to go down to the ravine at any moment and be separated. So everyone is packing matches, dry bark, and prepared to spend the night on his own.
This is some serious stuff.
This summer I almost didn't even make it to the pass. In the summer!
And this is going to be me there and back like a flash. But we have to keep going.
Hi Teddy, I don't know if it's been done before but how about starting a fire with matches only and no accelerant? Then try with a lighter. It should be attempted when and if it's super windy in day or night.
Hi Teddy, I don't know if it's been done before but how about starting a fire with matches only and no accelerant? Then try with a lighter. It should be attempted when and if it's super windy in day or night.
I don't think there's any reason to be suspicious about the ability to light a fire with limited resources , skilled tourists would have been taught this from knowledge over many generations. They had matches , would know what would burn , not easy for the uneducated in bushcraft perhaps but they had many years of winter conditions between them. I believe there were a number of matches found under the ceder, I don't think it says if they were spent or not ( used or unused) . Perhaps some of the missing diaries were used as tinder? They seem pocket sized note books?
Hi Teddy, I don't know if it's been done before but how about starting a fire with matches only and no accelerant? Then try with a lighter. It should be attempted when and if it's super windy in day or night.
I don't think there's any reason to be suspicious about the ability to light a fire with limited resources , skilled tourists would have been taught this from knowledge over many generations. They had matches , would know what would burn , not easy for the uneducated in bushcraft perhaps but they had many years of winter conditions between them. I believe there were a number of matches found under the ceder, I don't think it says if they were spent or not ( used or unused) . Perhaps some of the missing diaries were used as tinder? They seem pocket sized note books?
"Suspicious about the ability." You ain't just whistling Dixie! You're really reaching on the tinder possibility though. Why would any members of the gang have ripped them out in the first place? And before you speak of education or "uneducation" in survival, remember it's 1959.
I like the tree idea, Teddy. With it clobbering the ravine 4 from above when they were building and gathering for the fire. I don't agree the tent was there but I'm starting to think the gang was standing in that spot gathering wood for the two Yuri's.
The knife was not found in the ravine near the bodies, but directly on Zolotaryov. Same body position, camera tied to right hand, knife tied to left. I also believe in the initiation of the criminal case on February 6th.
By the way, has it already been explained why Zina has a star decal on her forehead that was "forgotten" in the autopsy report?
(https://i.ibb.co/PzsQB9J1/1000034442.png) (https://ibb.co/FqkVG0c8)
I remember that when I arrived in the Urals in December 2004, Aunt Anya (my mother’s brother’s widow) told the children: today it’s -20*C, it’s not cold, you can go for a walk. (below zero Fahrenheit. but I don't know how much)
That's why when I see here how residents of southern countries write topics "Heroic struggle for survival at -15*C (above zero Fahrenheit), it amuses me.
Residents of northern countries have fat under their skin, and therefore it is difficult for them to tolerate heat. One person told me this - I will go to the sea, but not further south than Voronezh.
What we have on the temperature graph in Burmatnovo (50 miles away) is a difference from -5*C (23:00) to -21 in a few hours. That is, this is a temperature at which children can go for a walk.
We do not have a temperature of -40*C or -50*C. My mother told me on this occasion that when she lived in the city of Serov for 8 years, children did not go to school only at a temperature of -40*C and below.
At -50*C, one man froze and died at such a distance in the city of Serov, when he walked 20 minutes from the poultry farm to his home (1 mile). They also say that he drank alcohol to keep warm.
The level of clothing of the deceased tourists (mittens in their pockets, unbuttoned buttons, walking in socks) suggests that the temperature was most likely -5*C, not even -20*C.
I was in Uzhgorod in January 2000 and listened to the Germans talking to each other in German. Lin said that it became terribly cold, subzero temperature, minus 3, while he described it as if it was -30*C (or -30*F - about the same thing).
What Mikhail Vladimirov recalls there about -30*C and a moonless night are artistic memories of February 5-7 superimposed. According to the data, this cannot happen on February 1.
Finally, I will add that the minimum temperature on February 2 was the same as the temperature on February 27, when the tent and bodies were found, there were many searchers and work was carried out all day.
In the freezing theory, it is most likely that they froze on the night of February 5-6 (at -35*C), and on the morning of February 6 their bodies were found and a criminal case was opened.
The photos come from this article.
https://cont.ws/@valentindeg/1266512
The star on Zina's forehead is also visible there. You can compare it with the photos on Dyatlovpass. If you don't look closely, you won't even notice it. From the article, I am only interested in these new photos, which I consider authentic. The author of the article did not recognize Zolotaryov in the photo because he did not notice the camera near his head.