Dyatlov Pass Forum

Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: GlennM on January 05, 2025, 06:44:13 AM

Title: Teddy's new trip
Post by: GlennM on January 05, 2025, 06:44:13 AM: Teddy will experience a night in a replica tent soon. I hope she develops certain insights and communicates them to the forum. I'll be looking for indications of these things. In her opinion:
1. Is cutting out of the tent a viable choice?
1a. How fast can the new tourists leave by the front flap?
1b. In what lighting and tent partition location did this happen?
2. Does the snow pack and slope support a slab slide theory?
3. Will a vertical cut be made in a snow bank to affirm layering of different densities of snow?
4. Would a retreat to boot rock be preferable to the forest if the tent were to be reused?
5. Can raised footprints be generated?
6. Can documented sock, boot and footprints be replicated?
7. What is her assessment of the trip/fall hazard of a descent from the tent?
8. What are the number of steps taken from tent to tree, and what is the stride length?
9. Transit time tent to tree?
10. Effectiveness of a simple flashlight as a beacon from the tent?
11. Effectiveness and security of rigging a stove without trees nearby for supporting the middle of the tent and stove?
12. What is the wisdom of having a cold night on a multiday trek? Is this not inherently dangerous then or later on?
13. Is there a real likelihood that an animal could enter the tent by surprise?
14. What camp tools must absolutely be required to make fire and cover at the Cedar?
15. Comment on the time and effort required to regain the tent.

The Ravine

1. Count the number of steps and stride length from tree to ravine
2. Would the tree or the ravine be the preferred destination from the tent?
3. Is a snow cornice observed at the ravine?
4. Could a flooring of branches be quickly made at the den, as opposed to finding one made by Mansi previously?
5. Comment of the onset of hunger and thirst.
6. Regard the ledge where Lyuda was found. In winter conditions, is is more likely she slid down or crawled up?
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 05, 2025, 08:52:43 AM: I will print these and other questions the forum members might have with me in case my brain freezes.
I am in full awe of what the Pass holds for me.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: OLD JEDI 72 on January 05, 2025, 09:48:35 AM: It would be really cool if you had weatherproof cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions with a live stream! I'd pay at least $20 to access that lol. You never know, you could catch a slab avalanche, katabatic winds, or an elk migration. Stay safe!
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: GlennM on January 07, 2025, 02:36:08 PM: Teddy, as you well know there is a lot of discussion about the steepness of the slope the tent may have been pitched on. Also, those who believe it was always on 1079 dispute the angle of the slope. There is the angle of the hillside, but there is a much steeper angle of the tent had a foundation cut into a ledge in the snow.

Perhaps if your smart phone has an inclinometer built in, you could download an app that would permit you to find both the natural angle of the slope as well as the steeper angle from the floor of the ledge to the peak of 1079.

Perhaps with your information, forum members can rule avalanches and slab slides in or out of consideration. Tks.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 08, 2025, 11:22:57 AM: Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 05, 2025, 09:48:35 AM
It would be really cool if you had weatherproof cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions with a live stream! I'd pay at least $20 to access that lol. You never know, you could catch a slab avalanche, katabatic winds, or an elk migration. Stay safe!
Setting up a live camera is not new. Check this post: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1626.msg24873#msg24873
Lets discuss this realistically, because if it keeps coming up I could discuss it wit the Russians.
Note the main difference in both suggestions. Ziljoe means the ravine. This is where I also think the tragedy happened, where the bodies were found, and the coroner says that 3 of them couldn't move or be moved after the trauma. While OLD JEDI 72 "cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions". To catch a snow slab/avalanche it has to be where the tent was. But there is nothing there to put a camera on top. No stone, no tree, nothing. Where do you think a camera should be mounted. And I am not familiar with the technology nowadays but what does it mean "pointing in all four directions"?
Help me process the idea, where should the camera be, what to point at, who is going to change the batteries, is it a motion activated or what?
The outlier rock is too far away from both the tent location and the ravine. It is the only thing sticking out, but it is useless for a camera to be mounted. You can see how small the snowmobiles look from the distance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJnzi3_3vy4
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 08, 2025, 11:30:53 AM: Roughly, this is where the tent was found. In the circle is a snowmobile for a scale.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/tent.jpg)

The ravine where the bodies were found.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/ravine.jpg)

My point is that if a camera is mounted at the top of the Boot rock, no matter what direction it is pointed at, you will se nothing. Most of the time there is whiteout. At night is pitch black. If something moves in the distance this won't trigger a motion detector, it would be too far away.

So where do you suggest this camera is mounted?
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 08, 2025, 11:38:52 AM: Quote from: GlennM on January 07, 2025, 02:36:08 PM
Teddy, as you well know there is a lot of discussion about the steepness of the slope the tent may have been pitched on. Also, those who believe it was always on 1079 dispute the angle of the slope. There is the angle of the hillside, but there is a much steeper angle of the tent had a foundation cut into a ledge in the snow.

Perhaps if your smart phone has an inclinometer built in, you could download an app that would permit you to find both the natural angle of the slope as well as the steeper angle from the floor of the ledge to the peak of 1079.

Perhaps with your information, forum members can rule avalanches and slab slides in or out of consideration. Tks.

Added to the list.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: GlennM on January 11, 2025, 07:40:37 AM: Teddy, will the Mansi comfirm they make snow dens? If yes, do they make them in the area near the cedar? I am thinking that if 1079 means "nothing goes there", then why would they hunt where nothing goes there?

If they actually do go there, will they show the group personally or in pictures of one of their constructions? Will they give an indication of what tools are needed and the amount of time necessary make one? Can they elaborate on whether they use cut branches to make a raised floor? I ask this for the benefit of the forum. I wonder if the DP9 used an existing shelter, missed an existing shelter, or made a shelter because there was none at the ravine.

As you know, the bodies of the ravine 4 were not at the platform of sticks in the den. Perhaps today's Mansi can help us understand what their parents and grandparents did to survive their hunts away from home.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 11, 2025, 08:09:09 AM: Quote from: GlennM on January 11, 2025, 07:40:37 AM
I am thinking that if 1079 means "nothing goes there", then why would they hunt where nothing goes there?
1079 = Kholat Syakhl = Dead Mountain

There is a myth that Otorten means "Don't Go There".

Отортэн is the distorted name of Вот-Тар-тан-Сяхыл (Mt Vot-Tar-tan-Syakhyl) meaning "Mountain that blows the wind" or "Mountain from which the wind blows". The Mansi emphasize that the winds very often blow from the side of this mountain (A.K. Matveev "The Peaks of the Stone Belt" 1990). Peak with this name is located several kilometers to the north and is inferior in height to what we know as Mt Otorten. Mansi have a different name for Otorten, Лунт-Хусап (Lunt-Khusap) meaning "Goose Nest" or Лунт-Хусап-Сяхыл (Lunt-Khusap-Syakhyl) meaning "Goose Nest Mountain". There is a Mansi legend that after the global flood, one goose survived on the peak of this mountain. The lake with the same name is located at the foot of the steep southeast slope of Mt Otorten. The lake with the same name is located at the foot of the steep southeast slope of Mount Otorten. It is from Lunt-Khusap-Tur Lake ("Goose Nest Lake") that the Lozva River originates.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 11, 2025, 08:17:59 AM: Quote from: GlennM on January 11, 2025, 07:40:37 AM
Perhaps today's Mansi can help us understand what their parents and grandparents did to survive their hunts away from home.

Valery Anyamov will be with us. I will make sure we discuss what do Mansi do when hunting in the winter.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Valery-Anyamov.jpg)
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 11, 2025, 08:53:36 AM: Kholat Syakhl is called Dead (Bare) Mountain because nothing grows there, but I found antlers that had fallen naturally from a reindeer on top of it which is a vast plateau. I have them in my room, call them my Urals Dream catcher.
This video is a flyover the top of 1079.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFZQus6bF-4

All around the "Dead Mountain" is a forest full of animals, bears in particular. I can vouch for that.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Osi on January 11, 2025, 10:15:16 AM: Due to climate change, snowfall has decreased by 60 percent compared to the 60s. This situation; It is relatively valid in the north of the hemisphere. It is no longer possible to relive those days. It may not be possible to determine a cornice and bridge. I am in favor of making some amateur experiments. For example, I would push a human-shaped model filled with straw down what was known as Valley 4 and record videos of the way it fell and its speed. To get an idea of the slope, I would like to observe the movement of a half cubic meter aluminum or tin can filled with stones (50 kg) downhill as it is pushed from the summit 1079. With a tent similar to the Dp tent at the possible tent site, provided that there is a comfortable tent nearby, how much on a night without fire? To test if you can stand it. Trying to light a fire near a cedar tree around 21:00, without any preparation, using the wood and matches you found around (spontaneously) would be something I would like to experience.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 11, 2025, 01:27:22 PM: This is a little ambitious for my one-night trip to the pass, but we can keep the ideas as a general concept.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: GlennM on January 11, 2025, 05:44:20 PM: Teddy, what your " Nothing goes there" reply produced was physical evidence ( antlers) that something does go there. That something would be reason enough for Mansi to know that part of the Urals. If they know it, then they perhaps make use of it.
If they do, then perhaps snow dens are/were made by Mansi around the time of the DP expedition. If true, then the hikers may have been looking for one in the ravine when trouble began.

Simply said, Mansi hunt and trap in the area by the cedar. They build dens to shelter from cold between hunts. The hikers may have found a new or old one, but probably by surprise. They fell in.

Thank you for the reply and insight. It is appreciated.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 02:07:17 AM: "We walked a lot, but searched unsystematically and without a plan. The mood of students and the leader is bad. They were invited to relocate the camp to the valley of the Lozva river so as not to spend half the time on the crossings. But they did not do it. We decided to serve 10 days in the form of hiking back and forth. Cowards. When I found something soft near that cedar and began to dig one and a half meter of snow, at first one student decided to help me, but when I got closer to the ground, he ran away. It was hide covered with (thick) moss." Grigoriev notebook 3 (https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-3#33)

We have the notes of journalist Grigoriev who found a hide (skin) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hide_(skin)) in the area of the cedar. This added to the Mansi trail that Dyatlov was following says that the Mansi were hunting there.
Mansi said about Otorten "Don't go there" as in "It's cold, and windy, you can die there".
Kholat Syakhl is Dead Mountain, because there is nothing on top of it. That doesn't mean animals don't roam. And the hunting was all over, only hunters wouldn't climb the mountain, there is no need for that, because the animals would eventually come down. And although the altitude of 1079 m doesn't seem much, believe me when I tell you that is arduous to go up.

So we know the cedar was a Mansi pit stop. The den could have been made by anyone, not just the Dyatlov group.

Today I will write my manifesto for this expedition. Please check to be notified.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 02:19:06 AM: Quote from: Teddy on January 08, 2025, 11:22:57 AM
Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 05, 2025, 09:48:35 AM
It would be really cool if you had weatherproof cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions with a live stream! I'd pay at least $20 to access that lol. You never know, you could catch a slab avalanche, katabatic winds, or an elk migration. Stay safe!
Setting up a live camera is not new. Check this post: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1626.msg24873#msg24873
Lets discuss this realistically, because if it keeps coming up I could discuss it wit the Russians.
Note the main difference in both suggestions. Ziljoe means the ravine. This is where I also think the tragedy happened, where the bodies were found, and the coroner says that 3 of them couldn't move or be moved after the trauma. While OLD JEDI 72 "cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions". To catch a snow slab/avalanche it has to be where the tent was. But there is nothing there to put a camera on top. No stone, no tree, nothing. Where do you think a camera should be mounted. And I am not familiar with the technology nowadays but what does it mean "pointing in all four directions"?
Help me process the idea, where should the camera be, what to point at, who is going to change the batteries, is it a motion activated or what?
The outlier rock is too far away from both the tent location and the ravine. It is the only thing sticking out, but it is useless for a camera to be mounted. You can see how small the snowmobiles look from the distance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJnzi3_3vy4

Hey Teddy, I was feeling ambitious that night due to some vodka but essentially four cameras on a very large sturdy pole. Not necessarily these older types in the pictures, but four with night vision. Solar would not be a good option in the winter but even Ring makes an outdoor camera with a two-year battery. The problem is that it would need an internet connection most likely via satellite where it could upload data or even allow users to view in real time. Or if internet is not an option, SD cards that would need to be retrieved.

I think it's wonderful you're going there but just saw that it's only going to be for a day so obviously it's not practical during that trip. Someone also mentioned there is less snow since 1959 which made me remember that the thought had occurred to me that seasons may have changed so to speak. February 1st in 1959 may be more equivalent to December or January whatever in 2025.

(https://i.ibb.co/QKf3sBp/cameras-sky.jpg)
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 02:40:27 AM: I will stay only for a day because I have to return for the conference in Yekaterinburg, which was my invitation. But the Russian hardcore expedition will stay from Jan 27 - Feb 6.
Please check in a little later to read my manifesto. It will explain why I am going for just one day and what I hope to accomplish. I need a little time to write it.

My main question about the camera was WHERE. If you put it on top of the Boot rock pictured in the video you won't see neither the tent nor the ravine. You will basically observe the sky, the horizon and maybe a huge avalanche. Because of the constant whiteout you won't see the Yeti even of it steals the camera.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 03:22:41 AM: Sounds good, can't wait to read it. You asked where to mount a camera and I would have to say boot rock however not on top as it would be exposed to the full force of the wind. It's a craggy rock; I would place cameras in crevices so to speak to receive the least wind as possible. Or the forest where there is less wind. A camera mounted to the cedar at roughly the same height as the Yuri's climbed, pointed towards the tent would be surreal. Their POV. shock1
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 03:01:46 AM: Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 03:22:41 AM
A camera mounted to the cedar at roughly the same height as the Yuri's climbed, pointed towards the tent would be surreal. Their POV. shock1

This is not a fact that the Yuri's or anyone from the Dyatlov group climbed that cedar. And even if you could see the tent in 1959 from that height, now you can see nothing. This has been tested already.

For the rest of the tests, please see what the Russian do every winter.

Quote from: Teddy on April 02, 2024, 11:45:02 AM
Here are 3 playlists from 3 different winters.
All 3 playlists contain footage of the ravine.

Winter expedition 2023
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYXGTlOLpQ4tRpFBQA8Sv0e6cqA2YmcOL&si=tknviER0XCh7ICfW

Winter expedition 2015
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX6-CuVdsR8399eeEQOt_q9TcvgMwxeqd

Quote from: Teddy on April 02, 2024, 01:41:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9vhQ_RBndY

This video was posted for the last week on the DyatlovPass.com home page.
You can find similar videos of the ravine from the last 10-15 years.
You can talk to the people that took the videos, they measure the snow cover, temperature, wind.
We have this information.
We also have the photos from February 1959 so we know how deep the snow was, we see how much the trees roots were covered.
The snow in the ravine is deep but "рыхлый", which translates as light, loose, not heavy and wet.
Oleg Taymen says that he can't see how snow like that can cause any injuries or suffocate you.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 03:06:24 AM: Ok will do. Here's two pictures I just took of my snow covered back yard. The night vision has two modes, a white light comes on, and the second is infrared, no white light. The snow itself is a great reflector in pitch dark.
(https://i.ibb.co/z4zp8Sr/Screenshot-20250112-062720.png) (https://ibb.co/71qPgGX)

(https://i.ibb.co/5sjtnT0/Screenshot-20250112-062657.png) (https://ibb.co/YfdYy2C)
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 03:33:55 AM: The tent is >500m away. Show me what your camera can pick up from a slope 500 m away in a pitch black night.

The cedar is even further away form the tent and it doesn't have a clear view.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 03:56:52 AM: You would be more qualified to determine where cameras could be placed. Maybe even one every hundred yards. Again it was just an idea from an idealistic newbie who will never get to visit the location himself.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 05:54:33 AM: MY NIGHT AT THE DYATLOV PASS 2025
Why go all the way for one night, what am I hoping to accomplish.

I want to start with some background.
What is the most important thing today?
If we so much want to do something about the case, what are the directions in which to funnel our time and resources (time, money, time is money, but also emotions, you make friends and foes)?
After so many years sleuthing I do follow an internal compass, and here is what I know.
Nowadays there are three frontiers:
(1) new documents or photos from 1959 that might surface, Natalya Varsegova is doing a damn good job;
(2) the contemporaries to the events and what they can remember;
(3) the obsessives, this is us, some investigating from home like Igor Pavlov, and others going to the Pass summer and winter, every year, keep looking and experimenting.

Since Kuntsevich died on August 11, 2021, nothing's the same with the foundation. I know of 4 parties that call themselves foundations or societies + something about Dyatlov. Their founders are Koskin (friend of Kuntsevich) - Yekaterinburg, Bartolomey (friend of Igor Dyatlov) - Yekaterinburg, Arkhipov (author) - Tyumen, and Dmitrievskaya (sleuth) - Saint Petersburg. They all try to do something about the case without stepping on each other's toes. The annual conference on the date of the incident, February 2, is still observed by the two parties in Yekaterinburg. The second party in Yekaterinburg invited me to present at their conference.Basically at the date of the incident the (1) and (2) frontiers meet to discuss the progress of the case in Yekaterinburg, while frontier (3) goes to the Pass to relieve the night of the tragedy, and do experiments.

For me the winter was forbidden because going to the conference required travel to Russia, visa etc. Just to spend a night with the veterans. This is what my response was - can't afford it. And then a sponsor stepped forward and said he is paying for my travel. How can I not go??? When the time came for me to apply for a visa I asked him how many nights I would be staying in Yekaterinburg. His name is Dmitriy Kireev. So Kireev said - well, I don't know what else you want to do in Russia. I said I don't have money to do anything on my own in Russia. Kireev said, don't you want to go to the Pass? I said, how can I if I am not part of an expedition, and I have to be back for the conference. Dmitruy Kireev is one of the organizers of the conference, and he said, we can go before or after the conference, what would you prefer? I said - before. Hence my one night, so I can then tell at the conference about that night.

I still haven't gotten to my manifesto. I told you about the conception of this trip to Russia.
My manifesto is networking with everybody that is working on the case. I don't like the word "networking" but I can not use the word "be friends" because not all of them want to be friends with me, but I have some kind of relation, they know me. I don't mean obsessives either, I am referring to the searchers. Karelin likes me, Askinadzi loves me, Sogrin despises me. Why is this important? Because I can ask them questions, and not just questions, I can "talk" to them. They keep saying things, like for example Askindzi, who said he didn't actually see the notebook in Zolotaryov's hand, but in Ortyukov's hand and presumed he took it form Zolotaryov, but was Zolotaryov "holding it"? This was a very spontaneous revelation. I didn't have in mind to ask him what he actually saw. It just came up. The same thing with Karelin and the bodies of the two Yuri's (https://dyatlovpass.com/expedition-2023#9).

I am not Russian, I am not an American, I am what Josh Gates called me - the conduit between the two worlds (on the topic of the Dyatlov group case).

Foreigners come for the trill, or to write a book, shoot a movie, and they do not return after that. The only two people I know that have gone back to the Pass are Mike Libecki (adventurer) and Keith **** (author). Neither speaks Russian.But I keep showing up. I go back every year. When I asked Kireev why does he want to help me he said because of the enormous work I have done with DYATLOVPASS.COM (https://dyatlovpass.com)
According to our contract with the Russian publisher we do not get money but 60 books. 30 will go to Igor Pavlov's widow, and the remaining 30 books I will sign and give away at the 2025 conference.

With my 13 days total in Russia I will meet with everyone from frontiers (1), (2) and (3). I am no expert in anything. But I want to be part of everything. I want to see what the Russians are up to, to bring Valery Anyamov the tools for leather that Tena Bellovich donated, to lean on the Boot Rock a memorial plaque that the Gates Nation sent me, and this is important in today's crumbling world. I want to see people face-to-face, this is the reason why I traveled to Crimea to meet with Askinadzi in August 2024 (https://dyatlovpass.com/expedition-2024-3), a trip only possible 3 days by train in each direction via the Crimea bridge.

I am not strong, I can hardly carry my backpack, but I compensate with determination. Your CAN'T is mine too, but my WANT is stronger, so I hold on to it for my dear life.

Here are some photos of the preparation of the Russian Expedition Jan 27 - Feb 6, 2025.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-38.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-39.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-40.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-41.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-42.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-43.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-44.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-45.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-46.jpg)

Act of Criminalistic expertise (tent) (https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-303-304#303back)
"The tent is made of thick cotton fabric of protective color. The total length of the tent /by the top seam/ is 4m.33 cm, the length of the side is 1 m. 14 cm, the total width is about 2 m. The height of the tent depends on its installation."

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-47.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-48.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-49.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-50.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-54.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-51.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-57.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-53.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-56.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-55.jpg)

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-Pass-winter-expedition-52.jpg)
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 06:16:58 AM: The ideas that we discuss, you understand that I do not have the means to implement any of it, but I can discuss them with the Russians while huddling in the tent at -50 degrees and they can tell me what they have already tried, what went wrong, and what they could do. There are strong men, one of them, Stas, volunteers to walk up and down the slope in socks, and he likes it. He will take part in this expedition again as "experimentalist", that's his role. This is him in some experiment.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/IMG_9604.jpg)

Aleksander Alekseenkov (Shura) also has done it. The descent is divided into two videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOVmADGlX2Y&list=PLQUaBB5B8ds5kQyCbh9oBIHKApv9_CT72&index=11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpJi6iNWF0&list=PLQUaBB5B8ds5kQyCbh9oBIHKApv9_CT72&index=12

He didn't film the passage from the mouth of the first stream to the cedar, because he was afraid that he could drop the camera in the snow - there is no wind crust in this area now, so he had to knead the deep snow. He only filmed a small fragment when he crossed the ravine of the first stream near the den. This fragment begins the third video - the ascent to the tent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH-3jOO9QI0&list=PLQUaBB5B8ds5kQyCbh9oBIHKApv9_CT72&index=13

The ascent was also filmed fragmentary, as he was afraid that the battery in the camera would run out.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 07:45:36 AM: Thanks for the videos, that really does bring things into perspective. You can't even see the tent from downslope, there's a ridge in the way, now I get it. It also makes sense why someone climbed the cedar (flesh shows someone did), to see if they could see the flashlight over that ridge imo.

What do the two flags side by side represent and various other flags?
Also do you have a video of say a drone (winter or summer) flying the same route from tent to cedar to ravine?
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 07:57:09 AM: Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 07:45:36 AM
It also makes sense why someone climbed the cedar (flesh shows someone did), to see if they could see the flashlight over that ridge imo.

Was there "flesh" found on the bark of the cedar?
The only place this is mentioned is Ivanov's "The Mystery Of The Fireballs" (https://dyatlovpass.com/lev-ivanov#5) which was published 30 years after the incident to get attention back to the cold case which he didn't solve in 1959:
"On the bark of the tree there were frozen (it’s scary to even say it!) their skin of their inner thighs and scraps of underwear."

The flesh on the bark of the cedar is another myth. Askinadzi who was there said Lev Ivanov didn't take photos, didn't touch the bodies, didn't protocol anything. No one took any samples from the bark of the tree, and Askinadzi did take a closer look, there was nothing on the tree. Nothing.

Also in this same article Lev Ivanov speaks of UFO. No wonder the authorities closed the case. If aliens are my best lead I would close the case too.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 08:03:16 AM: Quote from: GlennM on January 05, 2025, 06:44:13 AM
3. Is a snow cornice observed at the ravine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVDsAmRz9a8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-Wd1I5b8b8
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 08:42:01 AM: Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 07:45:36 AM
What do the two flags side by side represent and various other flags?
Also do you have a video of say a drone (winter or summer) flying the same route from tent to cedar to ravine?

I do have a video and I will explain the flags, give me a moment.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 09:23:34 AM: Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 07:45:36 AM
What do the two flags side by side represent and various other flags?

Send me a link with a time stamp where the two flags side by side are.

Flags on the slope represent the stone ridges according to Maslennikov's drawing:

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-79.jpg)

More maps from the case files → (https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-76-81?rbid=17743)

Flags in the forest are the bodies of Kolmogorova, Slobodin and Dyatlov.

Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 07:45:36 AM
Also do you have a video of say a drone (winter or summer) flying the same route from tent to cedar to ravine?

Drone starts at 15:28, from the ravine to the tent. I know you imagined something else but this is what I have.
https://youtu.be/Ypthl4yE4a8?si=rctqVhBhjOgo0LUz&t=928

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypthl4yE4a8&t=928
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 10:45:31 AM: I'll watch the latest one, thank you. The part I was referring to is on the ascent (can't find it on the descent) at 3:58 where the flags are side to side. It makes sense if that's a ridge. It also helps knowing the three who attempted to return were still in sort of the forest even though on diagrams it seems they are out of the forest. It never made sense to me why Dyatlov's corpse had trees around it until now.

Thanks for the info on Ivanov, I do tend to think orbs or fireballs have a modern explanation (and don't mean aliens or angels) and find him and his info intriguing given who he was in the case. Tree tops burned etc.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 11:48:28 AM: Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 10:45:31 AM
I'll watch the latest one, thank you. The part I was referring to is on the ascent (can't find it on the descent) at 3:58 where the flags are side to side. It makes sense if that's a ridge. It also helps knowing the three who attempted to return were still in sort of the forest even though on diagrams it seems they are out of the forest. It never made sense to me why Dyatlov's corpse had trees around it until now.

This is where Slobodin's body was found. Stone ridges 1-2-3 from Maslennikov's drawing are on the open slope, no trees.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Slobodin-body.jpg)

https://youtu.be/4qpJi6iNWF0?si=tH6INuSkNCoe1FSM&t=238

Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 10:45:31 AM
Thanks for the info on Ivanov, I do tend to think orbs or fireballs have a modern explanation (and don't mean aliens or angels) and find him and his info intriguing given who he was in the case. Tree tops burned etc.

I can not judge Lev Ivanov as a professional given the regime and whatever (read https://dyatlovpass.com/ivanov-resolution) but what he did with this article is much worse that what he did with the case in 1959. The thing about flesh on the bark of the tree is complete nonsense. When they found the last four bodies Lev Ivanov didn't even come close to the bodies, Askinadzi is a witness. What kind of investigator is this and why should you repeat what he said 30 years later in an article? Where is the document, or a photo of the so called "flesh on the bark of the cedar"? Lev Ivanov left us with a case that has more holes than a Swiss cheese.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 12:48:36 PM: Quote from: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 10:45:31 AM
I'll watch the latest one, thank you. The part I was referring to is on the ascent (can't find it on the descent) at 3:58 where the flags are side to side. It makes sense if that's a ridge. It also helps knowing the three who attempted to return were still in sort of the forest even though on diagrams it seems they are out of the forest. It never made sense to me why Dyatlov's corpse had trees around it until now.

This is where Slobodin's body was found. Stone ridges 1-2-3 from Maslennikov's drawing are on the open slope, no trees.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Slobodin-body.jpg)

https://youtu.be/4qpJi6iNWF0?si=tH6INuSkNCoe1FSM&t=238

Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 12, 2025, 10:45:31 AM
Thanks for the info on Ivanov, I do tend to think orbs or fireballs have a modern explanation (and don't mean aliens or angels) and find him and his info intriguing given who he was in the case. Tree tops burned etc.

I can not judge Lev Ivanov as a professional given the regime and whatever (read https://dyatlovpass.com/ivanov-resolution) but what he did with this article is much worse that what he did with the case in 1959. The thing about flesh on the bark of the tree is complete nonsense. When they found the last four bodies Lev Ivanov didn't even come close to the bodies, Askinadzi is a witness. What kind of investigator is this and why should you repeat what he said 30 years later in an article? Where is the document, or a photo of the so called "flesh on the bark of the cedar"? Lev Ivanov left us with a case that has more holes than a Swiss cheese.

Thanks for setting me straight lol. I trust you have more knowledge about the guy than I do. Let me ask you this, what does, or did he really gain by writing all of that? Misdirection? A sense of duty to cover up whatever it really was? Just stoking interest in a cold case like you said? Please bear with my ignorance on some things, I'm still learning. And thank you for taking the time and having the patience to explain it to me as I'm sure it gets repetitious to you.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 01:44:18 PM: He says is right there in the article: "I bring this publication to the families of the victims, especially to apologize to the relatives of Dubinina, Thibeaux-Brignolle and Zolotaryov."
Ivanov felt guilty for not doing his job in 1959. He wanted, honestly, to write an article that attracts attention. Like the YouTube videos now. Something spectacular.
His daughter said that by talking about UFOs, which were popular at the time of writing the article, he thought he would make impression. He just did, unintentionally, a very sloppy job, without any agenda.
He messed even more what was already hopelessly messed up by him in 1959.

The Russians do not put much weight into this article (https://dyatlovpass.com/lev-ivanov) - Lev Ivanov, "Leninskiy Put", Kustanay, 22 and 24 November, 1990.

Even the title is stolen from this article by another author "Mystery of the fireballs" (https://dyatlovpass.com/stanislav-bogomolov-2) - interview with Stanislav Evgenievich Bogomolov, author of the article "Mystery of the fireballs", published in the "Uralskiy Rabochiy", July 8, 10, 11, and 12, 1990.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 02:16:44 PM: Although it seems like I am trashing Lev Ivanov there are two things I give him kudos for, and they show he had put some thought (see 1.) and feelings (see 2.) into this case:
1. Why did he order radioactive tests on the last four bodies?
2. After 25 year all the evidence should be destroyed, but still he kept the films from the Dyatlov group cameras at his home. In 2009 his daughter Aleksandra Lvovna Ivanova gave the films to Aleksey Koskin and Yuri Kuntsevich.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Ziljoe on January 12, 2025, 02:20:51 PM: Hi teddy,

I can't think of much more to suggest. A camera would be great but I understand the logistics and funding issues. It would probably need to be done over several years to get even a vague indication of snow fall, depth , temperature etc. Maybe someone will in the future.

Anyway a couple of thoughts. I believe some people think the yurt or chum was in this location ? .

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/11-011.jpg)

It doesn't look like a place where the Mansi would camp and it doesn't look like a structure to sleep in. If you don't already know , perhaps you could ask your Mansi friend of its significance. Also, what is the reason for the antlers? I have read somewhere that the branches were staked like this for the purpose of drying the wood for when they camped close by. The idea being the vertical stacking was for drying the wood and it's location was on the edge of the forest to allow wind to assist the drying. , It would be then that the Mansi would take the wood to burn in the shelter of the forest. I have read that the location of this chum was north of zina and Dyatlov on the tree line?
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Ziljoe on January 12, 2025, 02:33:45 PM: Quote from: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 02:16:44 PM
Although it seems like I am trashing Lev Ivanov there are two things I give him kudos for, and they show he had put some thought (see 1.) and feelings (see 2.) into this case:
1. Why did he order radioactive tests on the last four bodies?
2. After 25 year all the evidence should be destroyed, but still he kept the films from the Dyatlov group cameras at his home. In 2009 his daughter Aleksandra Lvovna Ivanova gave the films to Aleksey Koskin and Yuri Kuntsevich.

1)Giving a guess as to why he ordered the radio active test was perhaps from his own assumptions from the statements about objects in the sky. There are several observations by students and the news article. The alleged story of him seeing the clothes glowing could have been his own made up story to get the tests done?

2) perhaps a feeling of guilt and there being no true resolution to the case. He was responsible and didn't find an answer. A lot of people suffered , the families and the careers of the sports institution along with the UPI. If he had found the reason , life would have been easier for many. ( Not his fault , but as humans we feel responsible).

I don't think you're trashing him teddy .
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 02:46:26 PM: A Mansi chum (definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chum_(tent))) was observed North-East from where Dyatlov group pitched their tent on the night of January 30. A trail leading to the chum was passing 200 feet from where they camped.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/11-011.jpg)

This construction is referred to as chum and was found 1 km from the tent according to Cheglakov's testimony (https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-44-45).

Vladimir Androsov, Mansi ethnologist, commented in an interview (https://samlib.ru/p/piskarewa_m_l/beseda_s_androsovym.shtml#ri13) on this particular photo:
"At this place a moose was killed. I can tell that it was killed and not dead because both antlers are together. When moose shed their antlers of age, they scratch on trees and usually loose them one by one. Mansi hunters left meat at that place and since the terrain is all the same around they put up a sign visible from far away. Or they might have taken the meat with them and marked the place to come and hunt again. It's just a sign. The long stick on the left is a trochee. The moose was killed in autumn. Not sure why did they leave the trochee (the long stick propped on the left side)."

I have asked Valery Anyamov about this photo and he confirmed what Androsov said. Nothing else to add.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Ziljoe on January 12, 2025, 04:38:18 PM: Quote from: Teddy on January 12, 2025, 02:46:26 PM
A Mansi chum (definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chum_(tent))) was observed North-East from where Dyatlov group pitched their tent on the night of January 30. A trail leading to the chum was passing 200 feet from where they camped.

(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/11-011.jpg)

This construction is referred to as chum and was found 1 km from the tent according to Cheglakov's testimony (https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-44-45).

Vladimir Androsov, Mansi ethnologist, commented in an interview (https://samlib.ru/p/piskarewa_m_l/beseda_s_androsovym.shtml#ri13) on this particular photo:
"At this place a moose was killed. I can tell that it was killed and not dead because both antlers are together. When moose shed their antlers of age, they scratch on trees and usually loose them one by one. Mansi hunters left meat at that place and since the terrain is all the same around they put up a sign visible from far away. Or they might have taken the meat with them and marked the place to come and hunt again. It's just a sign. The long stick on the left is a trochee. The moose was killed in autumn. Not sure why did they leave the trochee (the long stick propped on the left side)."

I have asked Valery Anyamov about this photo and he confirmed what Androsov said. Nothing else to add.

I am no Mansi ethnologist but it doesn't come close to a chum. It seems a lot of work for nothing to drag these trees to hold or display those antlers. Reading Vladimir Androsov interview , he seems to believe in a number of things that contradict the case files.

My gut feeling would be the Mansi leave signs on the trees , as we can see in the Dyatlov photos. I prefer the drying of wood theory and to how far this sign of branches and antlers could be seen from seems irrelevant. Perhaps a celebration of a first kill by a hunter? The long straight pole is odd though . I would suspect that elk and moose would roam all over the area, to signify this spot must mean something otherwise.

Has it anything to with the hikers? Probably not. It shows that the Mansi were in the area though , perhaps at different times of year , this makes me think that there's no secret bombs , bases etc. The Mansi used the land and I would suspect that this was known by the UPI, government, military . There would be no secret testing in a hunting area .
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Osi on January 13, 2025, 12:36:07 AM: As for Chum; The field of view in the forest is very short (rough) and in order to hunt, the game animal must come within 50 meters of you. They notice you and don't come that close. Due to the density of snow, your tracking ability in the forest decreases. If the chum skeleton made in the open is wrapped with a tarpaulin, you can wait for your prey inside, protected from the wind, all day long. You have the chance to see animal movements in 4 directions up to 1 km.
I think we can define Chum as a temporary base where animals expelled from the forest can easily hunt in open areas. The horn on top is a natural precaution to prevent the trees from being scattered left and right by the wind, and the wire is too valuable a material to be left in the forest.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 13, 2025, 12:36:50 AM: Quote from: Ziljoe on January 12, 2025, 04:38:18 PM
There would be no secret testing in a hunting area .

And vise versa, the Mansi won't hunt in a test area. They never stopped drinking the water or herd their deer in the area where the incident with the hikers happened.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 13, 2025, 12:37:40 AM: Quote from: Osi on January 13, 2025, 12:36:07 AM
As for Chum; The field of view in the forest is very short (rough) and in order to hunt, the game animal must come within 50 meters of you. They notice you and don't come that close. Due to the density of snow, your tracking ability in the forest decreases. If the chum skeleton made in the open is wrapped with a tarpaulin, you can wait for your prey inside, protected from the wind, all day long. You have the chance to see animal movements in 4 directions up to 1 km.
I think we can define Chum as a temporary base where animals expelled from the forest can easily hunt in open areas. The horn on top is a natural precaution to prevent the trees from being scattered left and right by the wind, and the wire is too valuable a material to be left in the forest.

That's a good explanation for me.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: GlennM on January 15, 2025, 09:12:54 AM: Teddy, could you equip with a thermometer to give us an appreciation of your temperature versus the outside temperature? I believe you would know when making a measurement set would be most appropriate. It might be meaningful if you made similar measurements at home before your trek. The forum discusses hypothermia often, but perhaps your data might be of use in helping us figure out the amount of time before hypothermia onset. No, I am not suggesting you for yourself at risk. Too, much has been made of valenki vs boots. Could you or someone take a brief walk in valenki, return to the tent and record foot temperature. The idea is that numb feet precipitate trip/fall down the slope. The forum might discuss how useful valenki actually are, and why they, not boots were worn when the 9 were found.

Finally, the thermometer might help by giving insight regarding the temperature of an occupied tent versus outside.

I have the opinion that up to a certain point, heat or cold are stimulating, but excess heat makes one sluggish and stupid. Excess cold makes one angry and rash.

Glenn
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 15, 2025, 10:14:32 AM: I could never measure my temperature even at home. I am not good with thermometers.
I can't get correct readings even when I am holding it in my armpit, forehead, mouth, year, whatever. I didn't procure a thermometer even in Covid times.
Running up and down in woolen socks or valenki has been done many times.
Here Shura is going down in socks. He is saying that his main problem is actually holding the camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOVmADGlX2Y&list=PLQUaBB5B8ds5kQyCbh9oBIHKApv9_CT72&index=11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpJi6iNWF0&list=PLQUaBB5B8ds5kQyCbh9oBIHKApv9_CT72&index=12

People's temperature and how they react to cold in general is very individual.
It has been decided that going in valenki is not what killed them.
Look at their feet, they do not have any frostbite or serious injuries.
https://dyatlovpass.com/injuries

Yuri Yudin commented after seeing the bodies in the Ivdel morgue how intact their feet looked like.

Going in socks and valenki has been done many times.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Teddy on January 15, 2025, 10:17:21 AM: I think we keep going to the pass anticipating something to happen. Having a plan is ok, but you are at the mercy of the Mountain.
You can't take your experiments seriously because the Mountain will kill you in many ways.
I go there like going to a casino. This is my Russian roulette.

The Russians are discussing going to Otorten following Dyatlov's original plan.
This a very risky plan, considering they can be forced to go down to the ravine at any moment and be separated. So everyone is packing matches, dry bark, and prepared to spend the night on his own.
This is some serious stuff.

This summer I almost didn't even make it to the pass. In the summer!
And this is going to be me there and back like a flash. But we have to keep going.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: OLD JEDI 72 on January 15, 2025, 05:13:37 PM: Quote from: Teddy on January 15, 2025, 10:17:21 AM
I think we keep going to the pass anticipating something to happen. Having a plan is ok, but you are at the mercy of the Mountain.
You can't take your experiments seriously because the Mountain will kill you in many ways.
I go there like going to a casino. This is my Russian roulette.

The Russians are discussing going to Otorten following Dyatlov's original plan.
This a very risky plan, considering they can be forced to go down to the ravine at any moment and be separated. So everyone is packing matches, dry bark, and prepared to spend the night on his own.
This is some serious stuff.

This summer I almost didn't even make it to the pass. In the summer!
And this is going to be me there and back like a flash. But we have to keep going.

Wow, that sounds ballsy. Are they going to dress in the same way? The one thing I noticed is NO long johns or thermal underwear. A freshly filled Zippo lighter and a couple of bottles of lighter fluid for me thanks.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: OLD JEDI 72 on January 15, 2025, 05:25:47 PM: The real experiment is timing a visit with a massive temperature inversion. The hikers themselves said it was warm with wind like a jet engine. That's why they were walking around with jackets unbuttoned. And sitting in the tent with no heat but clothes and shoes off. And then the temperature completely flipped after the tent event. Modern weather models can predict it to a T.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: GlennM on January 15, 2025, 05:42:08 PM: .
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: MDGross on January 21, 2025, 08:51:32 AM: Shura walked down the slope in socks. But I have the feeling he was wearing a coat and hood and gloves. And he walked in daylight. I cling to the opinion that no one, including members of the Dyatlov group, could survive two or more hours in a pair of pants and a shirt in sub-zero temperatures and a strong wind. Perhaps they didn't walk down the slope in the first place, and their feet show no frostbite because at least five of them (Doroshenko, Krivonischenko, Siobodin, Kolmogorova and Dyatlov) died of hypothermia before their feet suffered frostbite.

I'll be curious to know, Teddy, that on the night you camp on the slope if you or anyone in your party think they could walk in socks, pants and a shirt to the forest below, climb a tree, cut branches and build a fire before dying of hypothermia.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Ziljoe on January 21, 2025, 12:19:36 PM: Many people walk in in socks in winter. The only negative to walking in socks is the durability of the sole, not the the insulation properties. Sura was wearing slightly better clothing but I think it was an experiment on the footwear. As to daylight v nighttime, it has little bearing , yes it might help in the instance of shura but some days are colder than the night time.

Also no one was in a pair of pants or a single shirt. They all had at least double lairs on the lower half and triple layers on the torso. We don't know the wind chill but that's Important factor that should be considered.

Regarding Dyatlov himself , it was reported that he was in a group of trees that suggested he was going upwards. My interpretation was that he was found in a horse shoe type scenario. For example, he went down but when ever he decided to move up he was in an area that dictates he must have at least went down the slope , then upwards because he was stuck in surrounding trees that could only of happened by going upwards and not downwards. Frostbite can take time , it depends on slot of factors .
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: OLD JEDI 72 on January 25, 2025, 11:25:22 AM: Hi Teddy, I don't know if it's been done before but how about starting a fire with matches only and no accelerant? Then try with a lighter. It should be attempted when and if it's super windy in day or night.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Ziljoe on January 26, 2025, 01:37:18 PM: Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 25, 2025, 11:25:22 AM
Hi Teddy, I don't know if it's been done before but how about starting a fire with matches only and no accelerant? Then try with a lighter. It should be attempted when and if it's super windy in day or night.

I don't think there's any reason to be suspicious about the ability to light a fire with limited resources , skilled tourists would have been taught this from knowledge over many generations. They had matches , would know what would burn , not easy for the uneducated in bushcraft perhaps but they had many years of winter conditions between them. I believe there were a number of matches found under the ceder, I don't think it says if they were spent or not ( used or unused) . Perhaps some of the missing diaries were used as tinder? They seem pocket sized note books?
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: GlennM on January 27, 2025, 08:08:00 PM: Before partying Lyuda gave a souvenir to Yuri Yudin, a small Teddy Bear. He kept the fluffy toy until the end of his days. After his death April 29, 2013, the Teddy Bear was passed to Kuntsevich, head of the Daytlov foundation at the time. Kuntsevich himself passed away on 11 August 2021.

Other DP9 members had teddy bears. Teddy, you too should have several small teddy bears in your rucksack. One should be kept as your personal legacy item. The others, being symbolic and travelled to 1079, might be used in future fund raisers.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: OLD JEDI 72 on January 29, 2025, 04:40:28 PM: Quote from: Ziljoe on January 26, 2025, 01:37:18 PM
Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 25, 2025, 11:25:22 AM
Hi Teddy, I don't know if it's been done before but how about starting a fire with matches only and no accelerant? Then try with a lighter. It should be attempted when and if it's super windy in day or night.

I don't think there's any reason to be suspicious about the ability to light a fire with limited resources , skilled tourists would have been taught this from knowledge over many generations. They had matches , would know what would burn , not easy for the uneducated in bushcraft perhaps but they had many years of winter conditions between them. I believe there were a number of matches found under the ceder, I don't think it says if they were spent or not ( used or unused) . Perhaps some of the missing diaries were used as tinder? They seem pocket sized note books?

"Suspicious about the ability." You ain't just whistling Dixie! You're really reaching on the tinder possibility though. Why would any members of the gang have ripped them out in the first place? And before you speak of education or "uneducation" in survival, remember it's 1959.

I like the tree idea, Teddy. With it clobbering the ravine 4 from above when they were building and gathering for the fire. I don't agree the tent was there but I'm starting to think the gang was standing in that spot gathering wood for the two Yuri's.
Title: Re: Teddy's new trip
Post by: Ziljoe on January 29, 2025, 07:14:22 PM: Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 29, 2025, 04:40:28 PM
Quote from: Ziljoe on January 26, 2025, 01:37:18 PM
Quote from: OLD JEDI 72 on January 25, 2025, 11:25:22 AM
Hi Teddy, I don't know if it's been done before but how about starting a fire with matches only and no accelerant? Then try with a lighter. It should be attempted when and if it's super windy in day or night.

I don't think there's any reason to be suspicious about the ability to light a fire with limited resources , skilled tourists would have been taught this from knowledge over many generations. They had matches , would know what would burn , not easy for the uneducated in bushcraft perhaps but they had many years of winter conditions between them. I believe there were a number of matches found under the ceder, I don't think it says if they were spent or not ( used or unused) . Perhaps some of the missing diaries were used as tinder? They seem pocket sized note books?

"Suspicious about the ability." You ain't just whistling Dixie! You're really reaching on the tinder possibility though. Why would any members of the gang have ripped them out in the first place? And before you speak of education or "uneducation" in survival, remember it's 1959.

I like the tree idea, Teddy. With it clobbering the ravine 4 from above when they were building and gathering for the fire. I don't agree the tent was there but I'm starting to think the gang was standing in that spot gathering wood for the two Yuri's.

Calm Doon cowboy, you seem to be a rootin 'n' a tootin .

A simple Google will bring you to various tinder options , it's been discussed before , there's nothing odd about the starting of a fire where they were. I'm not sure what you mean by gang , or ripped them out , if you mean the suggestion of diaries, then some of these books ( diaries )were pocket sized. It would be useful tinder as some of them already had newspaper clippings etc in their pockets. Likewise, the trees etc have various resources.

Here's a nice gentleman in winter in February talking about how to start a fire with some resin.

https://youtu.be/7bgijLMMtpc?si=8U_3bQk9XRldVzXE

The ceder would be probably the best option for resources.

This guy shows us where to find the resin and climbs a tree !

https://youtu.be/Gq7pyVxLP1s?si=KMVZAtIFAjWUSGQy

This guy cuts right into the dead branch next to the trunk , this is where the best fat wood is.

https://youtu.be/v7EoZBFi9xs?si=vDGl4m5aS79LUbQz

I'm not sure what you mean by remembering it's 1959 , it's neither here or there , it's the skill of the people that have had to live in those conditions passing skills on for years . For those that are interested in outdoors , it is wise to invest in learning these skills that are essential to day to day living.

Many of us live in warm houses like yourself, most flick a switch for heat or buy firestarters from the supermarket.
The Dyatlov group would have known a few tricks and not solely relied on some sort of accelerant .