Teddy's new trip

[GlennM]

Teddy will experience a night in a replica tent soon. I hope she develops certain insights and communicates them to the forum. I'll be looking for indications of these things. In her opinion:
1. Is cutting out of the tent a viable choice?
1a. How fast can the new tourists leave by the front flap?
1b. In what lighting and tent partition location did this happen?
2. Does the snow pack and slope support a slab slide theory?
3. Will a vertical cut be made in a snow bank to affirm layering of different densities of snow?
4. Would a retreat to boot rock be preferable to the forest if the tent were to be reused?
5. Can raised footprints be generated?
6. Can documented sock, boot and footprints be replicated?
7. What is her assessment of the trip/fall hazard of a descent from the tent?
8. What are the number of steps taken from tent to tree, and what is the stride length?
9. Transit time tent to tree?
10. Effectiveness of a simple flashlight as a beacon from the tent?
11. Effectiveness and security of rigging a stove without trees nearby for supporting the middle of the tent and stove?
12. What is the wisdom of having a cold night on a multiday trek? Is this not inherently dangerous then or later on?
13. Is there a real likelihood that an animal could enter the tent by surprise?
14. What camp tools must absolutely be required to make fire and cover at the Cedar?
15. Comment on the time and effort required to regain the tent.

The Ravine

1. Count the number of steps and stride length from tree to ravine
2. Would the tree or the ravine be the preferred destination from the tent?
3. Is a snow cornice observed at the ravine?
4. Could a flooring of branches be quickly made at the den, as opposed to finding one made by Mansi previously?
5. Comment of the onset of hunger and thirst.
6. Regard the ledge where Lyuda was found. In winter conditions, is is more likely she slid down or crawled up?

[Teddy]

I will print these and other questions the forum members might have with me in case my brain freezes.
I am in full awe of what the Pass holds for me.

[OLD JEDI 72]

It would be really cool if you had weatherproof cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions with a live stream! I'd pay at least $20 to access that lol. You never know, you could catch a slab avalanche, katabatic winds, or an elk migration. Stay safe!

[GlennM]

Teddy, as you well know there is a lot of discussion about the steepness of the slope the tent may have been pitched on. Also, those who believe it was always on 1079 dispute the angle of the slope. There is the angle of the hillside,  but there is a much steeper angle of the tent had a foundation cut into a ledge in the snow.

Perhaps if your smart phone has an inclinometer built in, you could download an app that would permit you to find both the natural angle of the slope as well as the steeper angle from the floor of the ledge to the peak of 1079.

Perhaps with your information, forum members can rule avalanches and slab slides in or out of consideration.  Tks.

[Teddy]

It would be really cool if you had weatherproof cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions with a live stream! I'd pay at least $20 to access that lol. You never know, you could catch a slab avalanche, katabatic winds, or an elk migration. Stay safe!

Setting up a live camera is not new. Check this post: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1626.msg24873#msg24873
Lets discuss this realistically, because if it keeps coming up I could discuss it wit the Russians.
Note the main difference in both suggestions. Ziljoe means the ravine. This is where I also think the tragedy happened, where the bodies were found, and the coroner says that 3 of them couldn't move or be moved after the trauma. While OLD JEDI 72 "cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions". To catch a snow slab/avalanche it has to be where the tent was. But there is nothing there to put a camera on top. No stone, no tree, nothing. Where do you think a camera should be mounted. And I am not familiar with the technology nowadays but what does it mean "pointing in all four directions"?
Help me process the idea, where should the camera be, what to point at, who is going to change the batteries, is it a motion activated or what?
The outlier rock is too far away from both the tent location and the ravine. It is the only thing sticking out, but it is useless for a camera to be mounted. You can see how small the snowmobiles look from the distance.

[Teddy]

Roughly, this is where the tent was found. In the circle is a snowmobile for a scale.



The ravine where the bodies were found.



My point is that if a camera is mounted at the top of the Boot rock, no matter what direction it is pointed at, you will se nothing. Most of the time there is whiteout. At night is pitch black. If something moves in the distance this won't trigger a motion detector, it would be too far away.

So where do you suggest this camera is mounted?

[Teddy]

Teddy, as you well know there is a lot of discussion about the steepness of the slope the tent may have been pitched on. Also, those who believe it was always on 1079 dispute the angle of the slope. There is the angle of the hillside,  but there is a much steeper angle of the tent had a foundation cut into a ledge in the snow.

Perhaps if your smart phone has an inclinometer built in, you could download an app that would permit you to find both the natural angle of the slope as well as the steeper angle from the floor of the ledge to the peak of 1079.

Perhaps with your information, forum members can rule avalanches and slab slides in or out of consideration.  Tks.

Added to the list.

[GlennM]

Teddy, will the Mansi comfirm they make snow dens? If yes, do they make them in the area near the cedar? I am thinking that if 1079 means "nothing goes there", then why would they hunt where nothing goes there?

If they actually do go there, will they show the group personally or in pictures of one of their constructions? Will they give an indication of what tools are needed and the amount of time necessary make one? Can they elaborate on whether they use cut branches to make a raised floor? I ask this for the benefit of the forum. I wonder if the DP9 used an existing shelter, missed an existing shelter, or made a shelter because there was none at the ravine.

As you know, the bodies of the ravine 4 were not at the platform of sticks in the den. Perhaps today's Mansi can help us understand what their parents and grandparents did to survive their hunts away from home.

[Teddy]

I am thinking that if 1079 means "nothing goes there", then why would they hunt where nothing goes there?

1079 = Kholat Syakhl = Dead Mountain

There is a myth that Otorten means "Don't Go There".

Отортэн is the distorted name of Вот-Тар-тан-Сяхыл (Mt Vot-Tar-tan-Syakhyl) meaning "Mountain that blows the wind" or "Mountain from which the wind blows". The Mansi emphasize that the winds very often blow from the side of this mountain (A.K. Matveev "The Peaks of the Stone Belt" 1990). Peak with this name is located several kilometers to the north and is inferior in height to what we know as Mt Otorten. Mansi have a different name for Otorten, Лунт-Хусап (Lunt-Khusap) meaning "Goose Nest" or Лунт-Хусап-Сяхыл (Lunt-Khusap-Syakhyl) meaning "Goose Nest Mountain". There is a Mansi legend that after the global flood, one goose survived on the peak of this mountain. The lake with the same name is located at the foot of the steep southeast slope of Mt Otorten. The lake with the same name is located at the foot of the steep southeast slope of Mount Otorten. It is from Lunt-Khusap-Tur Lake ("Goose Nest Lake") that the Lozva River originates.

[Teddy]

Perhaps today's Mansi can help us understand what their parents and grandparents did to survive their hunts away from home.

Valery Anyamov will be with us. I will make sure we discuss what do Mansi do when hunting in the winter.

[Teddy]

Kholat Syakhl is called Dead (Bare) Mountain because nothing grows there, but I found antlers that had fallen naturally from a reindeer on top of it which is a vast plateau. I have them in my room, call them my Urals Dream catcher.
This video is a flyover the top of 1079.



All around the "Dead Mountain" is a forest full of animals, bears in particular. I can vouch for that.

[Osi]

Due to climate change, snowfall has decreased by 60 percent compared to the 60s. This situation; It is relatively valid in the north of the hemisphere. It is no longer possible to relive those days. It may not be possible to determine a cornice and bridge. I am in favor of making some amateur experiments. For example, I would push a human-shaped model filled with straw down what was known as Valley 4 and record videos of the way it fell and its speed. To get an idea of ​​the slope, I would like to observe the movement of a half cubic meter aluminum or tin can filled with stones (50 kg) downhill as it is pushed from the summit 1079. With a tent similar to the Dp tent at the possible tent site, provided that there is a comfortable tent nearby, how much on a night without fire? To test if you can stand it. Trying to light a fire near a cedar tree around 21:00, without any preparation, using the wood and matches you found around (spontaneously) would be something I would like to experience.

[Teddy]

This is a little ambitious for my one-night trip to the pass, but we can keep the ideas as a general concept.

[GlennM]

Teddy, what your " Nothing goes there" reply produced was physical evidence ( antlers) that something does go there. That something would be reason enough for Mansi to know that part of the Urals. If they know it, then they perhaps make use of it.
If they do, then perhaps snow dens are/were made by Mansi around the time of the DP expedition. If true, then the hikers may have been looking for one in the ravine when trouble began.

Simply said, Mansi hunt and trap in the area by the cedar. They build dens to shelter from cold between hunts. The hikers may have found a new or old one, but probably by surprise. They fell in.

Thank you for the reply and insight. It is appreciated.

[Teddy]

"We walked a lot, but searched unsystematically and without a plan. The mood of students and the leader is bad. They were invited to relocate the camp to the valley of the Lozva river so as not to spend half the time on the crossings. But they did not do it. We decided to serve 10 days in the form of hiking back and forth. Cowards. When I found something soft near that cedar and began to dig one and a half meter of snow, at first one student decided to help me, but when I got closer to the ground, he ran away. It was hide covered with (thick) moss."  Grigoriev notebook 3

We have the notes of journalist Grigoriev who found a hide (skin) in the area of the cedar. This added to the Mansi trail that Dyatlov was following says that the Mansi were hunting there.
Mansi said about Otorten "Don't go there" as in "It's cold, and windy, you can die there".
Kholat Syakhl is Dead Mountain, because there is nothing on top of it. That doesn't mean animals don't roam. And the hunting was all over, only hunters wouldn't climb the mountain, there is no need for that, because the animals would eventually come down. And although the altitude of 1079 m doesn't seem much, believe me when I tell you that is arduous to go up.

So we know the cedar was a Mansi pit stop. The den could have been made by anyone, not just the Dyatlov group.

Today I will write my manifesto for this expedition. Please check to be notified.

[OLD JEDI 72]

It would be really cool if you had weatherproof cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions with a live stream! I'd pay at least $20 to access that lol. You never know, you could catch a slab avalanche, katabatic winds, or an elk migration. Stay safe!

Setting up a live camera is not new. Check this post: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1626.msg24873#msg24873
Lets discuss this realistically, because if it keeps coming up I could discuss it wit the Russians.
Note the main difference in both suggestions. Ziljoe means the ravine. This is where I also think the tragedy happened, where the bodies were found, and the coroner says that 3 of them couldn't move or be moved after the trauma. While OLD JEDI 72 "cameras set up outside pointing in all four directions". To catch a snow slab/avalanche it has to be where the tent was. But there is nothing there to put a camera on top. No stone, no tree, nothing. Where do you think a camera should be mounted. And I am not familiar with the technology nowadays but what does it mean "pointing in all four directions"?
Help me process the idea, where should the camera be, what to point at, who is going to change the batteries, is it a motion activated or what?
The outlier rock is too far away from both the tent location and the ravine. It is the only thing sticking out, but it is useless for a camera to be mounted. You can see how small the snowmobiles look from the distance.

Hey Teddy, I was feeling ambitious that night due to some vodka but essentially four cameras on a very large sturdy pole. Not necessarily these older types in the pictures, but four with night vision. Solar would not be a good option in the winter but even Ring makes an outdoor camera with a two-year battery. The problem is that it would need an internet connection most likely via satellite where it could upload data or even allow users to view in real time. Or if internet is not an option, SD cards that would need to be retrieved.

I think it's wonderful you're going there but just saw that it's only going to be for a day so obviously it's not practical during that trip. Someone also mentioned there is less snow since 1959 which made me remember that the thought had occurred to me that seasons may have changed so to speak. February 1st in 1959 may be more equivalent to December or January whatever in 2025.

[Teddy]

I will stay only for a day because I have to return for the conference in Yekaterinburg, which was my invitation. But the Russian hardcore expedition will stay from Jan 27 - Feb 6.
Please check in a little later to read my manifesto. It will explain why I am going for just one day and what I hope to accomplish. I need a little time to write it.

My main question about the camera was WHERE. If you put it on top of the Boot rock pictured in the video you won't see neither the tent nor the ravine. You will basically observe the sky, the horizon and maybe a huge avalanche. Because of the constant whiteout you won't see the Yeti even of it steals the camera.

[OLD JEDI 72]

Sounds good, can't wait to read it. You asked where to mount a camera and I would have to say boot rock however not on top as it would be exposed to the full force of the wind. It's a craggy rock; I would place cameras in crevices so to speak to receive the least wind as possible. Or the forest where there is less wind. A camera mounted to the cedar at roughly the same height as the Yuri's climbed, pointed towards the tent would be surreal. Their POV.

[Teddy]

A camera mounted to the cedar at roughly the same height as the Yuri's climbed, pointed towards the tent would be surreal. Their POV.

This is not a fact that the Yuri's or anyone from the Dyatlov group climbed that cedar. And even if you could see the tent in 1959 from that height, now you can see nothing. This has been tested already.

For the rest of the tests, please see what the Russian do every winter.

Here are 3 playlists from 3 different winters.
All 3 playlists contain footage of the ravine.

Winter expedition 2023
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYXGTlOLpQ4tRpFBQA8Sv0e6cqA2YmcOL&si=tknviER0XCh7ICfW

Winter expedition 2015
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX6-CuVdsR8399eeEQOt_q9TcvgMwxeqd

This video was posted for the last week on the DyatlovPass.com home page.
You can find similar videos of the ravine from the last 10-15 years.
You can talk to the people that took the videos, they measure the snow cover, temperature, wind.
We have this information.
We also have the photos from February 1959 so we know how deep the snow was, we see how much the trees roots were covered.
The snow in the ravine is deep but "рыхлый", which translates as light, loose, not heavy and wet.
Oleg Taymen says that he can't see how snow like that can cause any injuries or suffocate you.

[OLD JEDI 72]

Ok will do. Here's two pictures I just took of my snow covered back yard. The night vision has two modes, a white light comes on, and the second is infrared, no white light. The snow itself is a great reflector in pitch dark.

[Teddy]

The tent is >500m away. Show me what your camera can pick up from a slope 500 m away in a pitch black night.

The cedar is even further away form the tent and it doesn't have a clear view.

[OLD JEDI 72]

You would be more qualified to determine where cameras could be placed. Maybe even one every hundred yards. Again it was just an idea from an idealistic newbie who will never get to visit the location himself.

[Teddy]

MY NIGHT AT THE DYATLOV PASS 2025
Why go all the way for one night, what am I hoping to accomplish.

I want to start with some background.
What is the most important thing today?
If we so much want to do something about the case, what are the directions in which to funnel our time and resources (time, money, time is money, but also emotions, you make friends and foes)?
After so many years sleuthing I do follow an internal compass, and here is what I know.
Nowadays there are three frontiers:
(1) new documents or photos from 1959 that might surface, Natalya Varsegova is doing a damn good job;
(2) the contemporaries to the events and what they can remember;
(3) the obsessives, this is us, some investigating from home like Igor Pavlov, and others going to the Pass summer and winter, every year, keep looking and experimenting.

Since Kuntsevich died on August 11, 2021, nothing's the same with the foundation. I know of 4 parties that call themselves foundations or societies + something about Dyatlov. Their founders are Koskin (friend of Kuntsevich) - Yekaterinburg, Bartolomey (friend of Igor Dyatlov) - Yekaterinburg, Arkhipov (author) - Tyumen, and Dmitrievskaya (sleuth) - Saint Petersburg. They all try to do something about the case without stepping on each other's toes. The annual conference on the date of the incident, February 2, is still observed by the two parties in Yekaterinburg. The second party in Yekaterinburg invited me to present at their conference.Basically at the date of the incident the (1) and (2) frontiers meet to discuss the progress of the case in Yekaterinburg, while frontier (3) goes to the Pass to relieve the night of the tragedy, and do experiments.

For me the winter was forbidden because going to the conference required travel to Russia, visa etc. Just to spend a night with the veterans. This is what my response was - can't afford it. And then a sponsor stepped forward and said he is paying for my travel. How can I not go??? When the time came for me to apply for a visa I asked him how many nights I would be staying in Yekaterinburg. His name is Dmitriy Kireev. So Kireev said - well, I don't know what else you want to do in Russia. I said I don't have money to do anything on my own in Russia. Kireev said, don't you want to go to the Pass? I said, how can I if I am not part of an expedition, and I have to be back for the conference. Dmitruy Kireev is one of the organizers of the conference, and he said, we can go before or after the conference, what would you prefer? I said - before. Hence my one night, so I can then tell at the conference about that night.

I still haven't gotten to my manifesto. I told you about the conception of this trip to Russia.
My manifesto is networking with everybody that is working on the case. I don't like the word "networking" but I can not use the word "be friends" because not all of them want to be friends with me, but I have some kind of relation, they know me. I don't mean obsessives either, I am referring to the searchers. Karelin likes me, Askinadzi loves me, Sogrin despises me. Why is this important? Because I can ask them questions, and not just questions, I can "talk" to them. They keep saying things, like for example Askindzi, who said he didn't actually see the notebook in Zolotaryov's hand, but in Ortyukov's hand and presumed he took it form Zolotaryov, but was Zolotaryov "holding it"? This was a very spontaneous revelation. I didn't have in mind to ask him what he actually saw. It just came up. The same thing with Karelin and the bodies of the two Yuri's.

I am not Russian, I am not an American, I am what Josh Gates called me - the conduit between the two worlds (on the topic of the Dyatlov group case).

Foreigners come for the trill, or to write a book, shoot a movie, and they do not return after that. The only two people I know that have gone back to the Pass are Mike Libecki (adventurer) and Keith **** (author). Neither speaks Russian.But I keep showing up. I go back every year. When I asked Kireev why does he want to help me he said because of the enormous work I have done with DYATLOVPASS.COM
According to our contract with the Russian publisher we do not get money but 60 books. 30 will go to Igor Pavlov's widow, and the remaining 30 books I will sign and give away at the 2025 conference.

With my 13 days total in Russia I will meet with everyone from frontiers (1), (2) and (3). I am no expert in anything. But I want to be part of everything. I want to see what the Russians are up to, to bring Valery Anyamov the tools for leather that Tena Bellovich donated, to lean on the Boot Rock a memorial plaque that the Gates Nation sent me, and this is important in today's crumbling world. I want to see people face-to-face, this is the reason why I traveled to Crimea to meet with Askinadzi in August 2024, a trip only possible 3 days by train in each direction via the Crimea bridge.

I am not strong, I can hardly carry my backpack, but I compensate with determination. Your CAN'T is mine too, but my WANT is stronger, so I hold on to it for my dear life.

Here are some photos of the preparation of the Russian Expedition Jan 27 - Feb 6, 2025.




















Act of Criminalistic expertise (tent)
"The tent is made of thick cotton fabric of protective color. The total length of the tent /by the top seam/ is 4m.33 cm, the length of the side is 1 m. 14 cm, the total width is about 2 m. The height of the tent depends on its installation."

[Teddy]

The ideas that we discuss, you understand that I do not have the means to implement any of it, but I can discuss them with the Russians while huddling in the tent at -50 degrees and they can tell me what they have already tried, what went wrong, and what they could do. There are strong men, one of them, Stas, volunteers to walk up and down the slope in socks, and he likes it. He will take part in this expedition again as "experimentalist", that's his role. This is him in some experiment.



Aleksander Alekseenkov (Shura) also has done it. The descent is divided into two videos:





He didn't film the passage from the mouth of the first stream to the cedar, because he was afraid that he could drop the camera in the snow - there is no wind crust in this area now, so he had to knead the deep snow. He only filmed a small fragment when he crossed the ravine of the first stream near the den. This fragment begins the third video - the ascent to the tent:



The ascent was also filmed fragmentary, as he was afraid that the battery in the camera would run out.

[OLD JEDI 72]

Thanks for the videos, that really does bring things into perspective. You can't even see the tent from downslope, there's a ridge in the way, now I get it. It also makes sense why someone climbed the cedar (flesh shows someone did), to see if they could see the flashlight over that ridge imo.

What do the two flags side by side represent and various other flags?
Also do you have a video of say a drone (winter or summer) flying the same route from tent to cedar to ravine?

[Teddy]

It also makes sense why someone climbed the cedar (flesh shows someone did), to see if they could see the flashlight over that ridge imo.

Was there "flesh" found on the bark of the cedar?
The only place this is mentioned is Ivanov's "The Mystery Of The Fireballs" which was published 30 years after the incident to get attention back to the cold case which he didn't solve in 1959:
"On the bark of the tree there were frozen (it’s scary to even say it!) their skin of their inner thighs and scraps of underwear."

The flesh on the bark of the cedar is another myth. Askinadzi who was there said Lev Ivanov didn't take photos, didn't touch the bodies, didn't protocol anything. No one took any samples from the bark of the tree, and Askinadzi did take a closer look, there was nothing on the tree. Nothing.

Also in this same article Lev Ivanov speaks of UFO. No wonder the authorities closed the case. If aliens are my best lead I would close the case too.

[Teddy]

3. Is a snow cornice observed at the ravine?

[Teddy]

What do the two flags side by side represent and various other flags?
Also do you have a video of say a drone (winter or summer) flying the same route from tent to cedar to ravine?

I do have a video and I will explain the flags, give me a moment.

[Teddy]

What do the two flags side by side represent and various other flags?

Send me a link with a time stamp where the two flags side by side are.

Flags on the slope represent the stone ridges according to Maslennikov's drawing:



More maps from the case files →

Flags in the forest are the bodies of Kolmogorova, Slobodin and Dyatlov.

Also do you have a video of say a drone (winter or summer) flying the same route from tent to cedar to ravine?

Drone starts at 15:28, from the ravine to the tent. I know you imagined something else but this is what I have.
https://youtu.be/Ypthl4yE4a8?si=rctqVhBhjOgo0LUz&t=928

[OLD JEDI 72]

I'll watch the latest one, thank you. The part I was referring to is on the ascent (can't find it on the descent) at 3:58 where the flags are side to side. It makes sense if that's a ridge. It also helps knowing the three who attempted to return were still in sort of the forest even though on diagrams it seems they are out of the forest. It never made sense to me why Dyatlov's corpse had trees around it until now.

Thanks for the info on Ivanov, I do tend to think orbs or fireballs have a modern explanation (and don't mean aliens or angels) and find him and his info intriguing given who he was in the case. Tree tops burned etc.