State order for liquidation. Anna Russian's version.(c)

[anna_pycckux]

Anna, please translate this post into English and re-post it.

good.. but then delete the top two similar posts from Yu. Kuntsevich.
Юрий Кунцевич, цитата: "Анна Русская доказала...." Юрий Кунцевич не бросал слов на ветер.
Yuri Kuntsevich, quote: "Anna Russian proved...." Yuri Kuntsevich did not throw words to the wind.

[anna_pycckux]

YURI KUNTSEVICH ACCORDING TO ANNA RUSSIAN.
Quote:
"We have a lot of women who are fiercely speaking out with their versions. Take Anna Russian, who accused Kirilenko, the first secretary of the regional party committee, proved, provided materials, wrote the book "Ural Golgotha".

[Ziljoe]

YURI KUNTSEVICH ACCORDING TO ANNA RUSSIAN.
Quote:
"We have a lot of women who are fiercely speaking out with their versions. Take Anna Russian, who accused Kirilenko, the first secretary of the regional party committee, proved, provided materials, wrote the book "Ural Golgotha".

Writing a book is a great accomplishment.

May I summarise what I understand it to imply in its simplest form.

That someone, or a group of people reported the DP9 of crimes/dissidence against the idealism of the Soviet Union.

The reporting of such acts would be taken seriously by the KGB/CSPU.

At some point the decision was taken to liquidate the DP9 by the KGB.

The opertuinty to do this was decided that during the hike would be the easiest way to liquidate them with the least complication to trials/investigations etc. ( This would also be a possible way to stop any activity in the UPI of acts against the state?) .

Rightly or wrongly , this is what was decided. Following , finding the bodies and the unusual circumstances at 1079 , this may have raised questions by the innocent investigators/searchers at the site and all the oddities of autopsies etc.

The mostly inoccent investigators , were told, case closed, end of, no more questions.

Is that basically a fair evaluation?.

[GlennM]

Anna has given us her " I can't be wrong" explanation.  She posts repeatedly in this forum trying to sell her concept ( and book). In her case, I can't be wrong, really means, I'm not illogical. She can have a logically consistent arguement based on false premises. She posits the DP9 were deserving of liquidation by employing the bandwagon effect logical fallacy. She then defends her point of view by citing any and all peripheral details that are a good fit. This is all logical, but has no meaningful bearing on what happened on 1079. When it comes down to proving anything, well logic and truth should be the same, but are not.

[anna_pycckux]

.....This is all logical, but has no meaningful bearing on what happened on 1079. When it comes down to proving anything, well logic and truth should be the same, but are not.

My mistake is that I wrote the first posts in Russian. Read this and let me know what is illogical and what evidence is needed? I will publish them. A short version of the version of the "State Order for liquidation":
1. Stalinists like Kirilenko, who was born in 1906, were in power.. having absorbed the Stalinist method of government with blood.

2. The scandalous UPI conference of 1956 with a student's speech against the system. The party members were scared and confused.. They were most afraid of a repeat of the situation.

3. The fight against dissent and opposition has become tougher. Especially after the letter from the Kremlin "On the fight against anti-Soviet elements with attention to youth and students.".

4.As a consequence, information dissemination and exposure flourished. Dyatlovtsy fell under this distribution.. especially Kolmogorova, Dyatlov, Dubinin, who probably refused to enroll in the ranks of informants.  It was then that false denunciations appeared, because of which the students were threatened with the death penalty. Yu. Yudin: "Denunciations were written against the Dyatlovites that they were spies and wanted to flee abroad."
5. The head of the Sverdlovsk region was a mentally limited, cruel, vindictive careerist. We remember from history how, not without Kirilenko's help, the Novocherkassk riot of unarmed workers, the Komsomol protest in Timertau -59 and rallies in Shymkent were shot.. All suppression of these protests was decided by the Kremlin commissions and each time such a commission included A.P. Kirilenko. Therefore, I believe that the shootings in Novocherkassk, Timertau, Shymkent, on the Dyatlov Pass are links in one chain of repression.
6.21 The Congress of the CPSU served as a starting point for the liquidation of the group, to which terrible denunciations were written that they wanted to escape abroad. Imagine: a congress is taking place, Kiriyenko reports: The Sverdlovsk region is approaching the heights of communism by leaps and bounds, and he is informed that students in his region are fleeing en masse to the west.
7. The party leaders took control of the case and forced prosecutors and investigators to perjure themselves that the group died as a result of an accident, that is, they could not cope with the bad weather. Ordered to close the case, not investigated.. and classified.

[anna_pycckux]

Is that basically a fair evaluation?.

да, справедливая, но есть еще детали..
Yes, that's fair, but there are other details..

[GlennM]

If #4 is valid then according to the bulk of the post, a bullet would be the best solution  to liquidate the hikers. This could be done by a long range sniper rifle. The killers would be in and out in a very short time. If this was political, then a death warrant could be pinned to each Hikerr's clothes. But, none of this happened. The opportunity to strike fear into the heart of dissidents fails because their death sends a mixed message of causality. A bullet by contrast, makes things certain.

If #4 is true, the government wished to control dissidents by free and public humiliation. Far more effective to arrest them at school, not in the middle of nowhere! Therefore, they were neither arrested, not humiliated before the public.

The reasoning provided above my post is logical, but one must accept all the premises l. My reply is also logical and speculative.

[anna_pycckux]

The reasoning provided above my post is logical, but one must accept all the premises l. My reply is also logical and speculative.

About public humiliation. In the memory of the party members, the Komsomol conference, shameful for them, thundered all over the world. The arrest and trial of the best students can turn into unpredictability and a new protest for party members. In addition, "arrest" and "liquidate" are different concepts. In my personal opinion, the party members liked radical methods of dealing with the objectionable more.

[anna_pycckux]

If #4 is valid then according to the bulk of the post, a bullet would be the best solution  to liquidate the hikers.

Насчет пули. Вы рассуждаете правильно, и, возможно такой вариант расстрела каждого неугодного поодиночке – рассматривался службами. Как пример: странный случай с Людмилой в походе 1957, когда ее ранили в ногу. Не было ли это покушением? Но у снайпера дрогнула рука? Петр Бартоломей объясняет этот случай так (смотри скриншот): Барто был руководителем похода в  Саяны. В походе они охотились на белок. Участник похода Ведерников стукнул ружьем по дереву, и ружье выстрелило и попало Люде в ногу. Ведерникова уже нет, он ответить не может. Этот случай странный и мог быть неудачным покушением на Люду.

About the bullet. You are reasoning correctly, and perhaps this option of shooting each objectionable one by one was considered by the services. As an example: a strange case with Lyudmila on a hike in 1957, when she was wounded in the leg. Was it an attempted murder? But the sniper's hand was shaking? Peter Bartholomew explains this case as follows: Bartholomew was the leader of the Sayana company. During the hike, they hunted squirrels. Hunter Vladimir Vedernikov hit a tree with a gun, a shot occurred, a bullet hit Lyudmila in the leg. Vedernikov is no more, he can't answer. This case is strange and could have been an unsuccessful attempt on Lyudmila.
.

[anna_pycckux]

Власть знала о трагедии уже 2 февраля! Об этом говорил Юрий Кунцевич (имеется видеосвидетельство), об этом же говорил Юрий Юдин: власть все знала до начала поисков.
В каком случае власть могла знать и молчать? Только в том, когда была причастна к трагедии на Перевале,
Не забываем, что дело было заведено 6 февраля, записка следователя Темпалова написана 15 февраля.

The authorities knew about the tragedy already on February 2! Yuri Kuntsevich talked about it (there is video evidence), Yuri Yudin also talked about it: the authorities knew everything even before the search for the missing began.
In what case could the authorities know and remain silent? Only when she was involved in the tragedy at the pass,
do not forget that the case was initiated on February 6, the note of investigator Tempаlhof was written on February 15.

[anna_pycckux]

According to my version, there was no way out of the tent undressed!
In the evening, the guys were tricked into leaving the tent (for example, to help a wounded hunter) and escorted to a forest belt to a cedar tree, where a fire was burning and a flooring was made. The guys were trapped.. but the order to undress was met with resistance. A fight started.

[anna_pycckux]

Indisputable facts that cannot be refuted, which form the picture of the tragedy
1. In the UPI in November 1956, a scandalous conference was held criticizing the authorities. (there is an archive document)
2. In December, the leadership of the CPSU Central Committee sent a document entitled "On combating anti-Soviet elements" to all party organizations throughout the country, demanding that attention be paid to young people and students. (there is an archival document).
3. The expulsion of unwanted students from the UP I began.
4. From January 27 to February 5, the 21st Congress of the CPSU was held in Moscow.
5. On February 2, Dyatlov's group of 9 people died in the Urals.
6. On February 6, a criminal case was opened without a number.
7. On February 20, the search began.
8. According to former student Slobtsov, they were escorted by Kirilenko with the words: "Look, maybe you will find traces of how they escaped to Norway undressed, without pants».
9. The characteristics of Kirilenko, the head of the Sverdlovsk regional Committee are the most negative. "Boor, tyrant, bonecracker, semi-literate, stupid, vindictive, bulldozer type"
10. On February 24, a tent was discovered by forester Pashin (see his testimony), on February 26, a tent was discovered by search engines Sharavin and Slobtsov.
11. On February 27, the first bodies were found near the cedar. Undressed, with lacerations of hands and face.
12. The search and the Criminal case were supervised by the Sverdlovsk Regional Committee. Yeshtokin was present in the Department. Kirilenko came to Ivdel twice.
13. Already on March 10, the regional committee creates a commission, which on March 27, 1959 comes to the conclusion that tourists died from frost. The report was sent to the Central Committee of the CPSU "the whole group died, they could not cope with the weather conditions." (archival documents are available). The investigation is not over yet, 4 corpses have not been found.
14. The investigation was conducted at the direction of the authorities. In fact, there was no investigation. Fingerprints have not been taken, there are no clear photographs, there is no investigation of the remains of the fire, there is no examination of fragments of internal organs. There is no case number.
15. The last corpses, with terrible injuries and someone else's underwear on Luda Dubinina, were found in May. At the same time, the case was dismissed on the instructions of the party.
16. In August 1956, a Komsomol protest broke out at the Komsomol construction site in Temirtau due to impossible living conditions and lack of food and water. Kirilenko goes to solve the problem with the protesting Komsomol members together with other members of the commission. The protest was brutally suppressed, killed and executed.

[anna_pycckux]

Mikhail Sharavin, who discovered the tent, cut it with an ice axe.
Former UPI student, search engine Mikhail Sharavin tells how he and B. Slobtsov found and cut the tent with an ice axe.
Quote (in abbreviation): when we ran up, we saw a pair of skis and an ice axe near the tent. My first thought was: is there anyone in the tent.  It was clear that they had crashed. We chop the snow and the front of the tent with an ice axe. At the bottom we found jackets, backpacks, a stove with firewood, a flask with alcohol, which we took with us to the search engine camp.
It is strange that the tent inside was not covered with snow.

[anna_pycckux]

On the screenshot:
On November 4, 1956, the issue was discussed at the Presidium of the Central Committee (in the Kremlin).:
"On the purification of universities from anti-Soviet elements." Furtseva, Pospelov, Shelepin and the Minister of Higher Education of the USSR were instructed to make appropriate proposals. On December 6, 1956, the Central Committee of the CPSU prepared a draft letter to all party organizations on measures to curb anti-Soviet hostile elements. It was also decided to develop a law on combating anti-Sovietism.
Second screenshot:
Archival document dated December 14, 1956
Draft letter "On strengthening party organizations to prevent the emergence of anti-Soviet elements."
It is impossible to translate this from Russian verbatim.
.

[cib]

Dear Anna, from your version I agree with you that the students were murdered and dogs were used, which, for example, caused a clear pattern of incised, stabbing and blunt wounds on Thibeaux right hand. Years ago and after 3 attempts without a response from the Foundation, I directly presented to the late Yuri Kuntsevich 2 expert reports based on the morphology and morphometry of the dental semi-arches of a dog with a dolichocephalic skull, such as the German shepherd. And also, photos throughout my life, amateur training various dog breeds of prey including: Boxer, spanish Alano, Bullterrier and Rottweiler.





The question is, ¿Was your version known to Yuri Kuntsevich or Professor Bartholomew?.

Greetings. 

[anna_pycckux]

Thank you, I'm glad I found a like-minded person who supports my version. I wrote about dog bites everywhere, but no one supported me. But I'm sure the guys are bitten by dogs. Bartholomew and Kuntsevich know about my version. they have my books. Bartholomew is an ardent opponent. And Kuntsevich (see the top post), said, "Anna Russian wrote a book and proved.." MY VERSION IS A CRIME. THEY WERE KILLED BY ORDER FROM ABOVE (because of A false denunciation).
...

[anna_pycckux]

.

[cib]

Thanks for your answer. I got a positive response from Yuri Kuntsevich and he told me that he was going to add my version to his investigation. We both agreed that the illogical and suicidal location of the store was a setup and also a falsehood, the fact that an expert like Igor Dyatlov had ordered to abandon and deviate 1.5 km from the traditional and sheltered route of Mansi hunters to access and descend to the tributaries of the Lozva on its way to Otorten.

Green: Path. Red: Tent Yellow: Crater




I feel that prof. Bartholomew be so hostile to you. I agree with him that the event was due to the launch of a missile, what happens is that I think it was the ICBM R-7 and the Storm. I have not had the pleasure of communicating with him, but I did present Yuri Kuntsevich with Soviet maps of missile trajectories and it can be seen how the Baikonur-Nova Zembla route flies over the Dyatlov Pass on the Northern Route. Numerous testimonies, both civilian and military, attest to several sightings as well as a missile monitoring and control station at the Ilych base, located 21 km from the pass. My hypothesis has the virtue of satisfying those people who think that even if the store was on a hillside lashed by the winds, something happened to make them flee and it is simply the existence of an explosion crater that hit the eastern slope of Jólat Siajl and was photographed by Semyon. The sudden release of kinetic energy was recorded by the sophisticated Yekaterinburg CKM seismograph on the night of February 2, 1959 at 4:02 am local time. The next day, military technicians from the Ilych station flew over the area of the failed launch and, seeing the students, reported it and ordered the Ivdellag Vokhr guards to arrest them. But they defended themselves and a fight occurred, with tragic consequences for the students, as postulated by the forensic pathologist Tumanov and the Spanish professor of physical medicine, Miguel Angel Pertierra.

1. North Route trajectory



2. Tracking parameters of the missile from the Ilych base.


3. photo of the missile obtained by Zolotaryov


4. Crater coordinates
61°45'48.6"N 59°24'30.2"E

5. Seismogram



6.Vokhr



7. Rebuttals of the official version of forensics Tumanov and Pertierra.
https://www.kp.ru/daily/26311.5/3189866/
https://www.cuatro.com/cuarto-milenio/programa-completo-integro-hd_18_2720055026.html

Greetings. 

[Ziljoe]

Thanks for your answer. I got a positive response from Yuri Kuntsevich and he told me that he was going to add my version to his investigation. We both agreed that the illogical and suicidal location of the store was a setup and also a falsehood, the fact that an expert like Igor Dyatlov had ordered to abandon and deviate 1.5 km from the traditional and sheltered route of Mansi hunters to access and descend to the tributaries of the Lozva on its way to Otorten.

Green: Path. Red: Tent Yellow: Crater




I feel that prof. Bartholomew be so hostile to you. I agree with him that the event was due to the launch of a missile, what happens is that I think it was the ICBM R-7 and the Storm. I have not had the pleasure of communicating with him, but I did present Yuri Kuntsevich with Soviet maps of missile trajectories and it can be seen how the Baikonur-Nova Zembla route flies over the Dyatlov Pass on the Northern Route. Numerous testimonies, both civilian and military, attest to several sightings as well as a missile monitoring and control station at the Ilych base, located 21 km from the pass. My hypothesis has the virtue of satisfying those people who think that even if the store was on a hillside lashed by the winds, something happened to make them flee and it is simply the existence of an explosion crater that hit the eastern slope of Jólat Siajl and was photographed by Semyon. The sudden release of kinetic energy was recorded by the sophisticated Yekaterinburg CKM seismograph on the night of February 2, 1959 at 4:02 am local time. The next day, military technicians from the Ilych station flew over the area of the failed launch and, seeing the students, reported it and ordered the Ivdellag Vokhr guards to arrest them. But they defended themselves and a fight occurred, with tragic consequences for the students, as postulated by the forensic pathologist Tumanov and the Spanish professor of physical medicine, Miguel Angel Pertierra.

1. North Route trajectory



2. Tracking parameters of the missile from the Ilych base.


3. photo of the missile obtained by Zolotaryov


4. Crater coordinates
61°45'48.6"N 59°24'30.2"E

5. Seismogram



6.Vokhr



7. Rebuttals of the official version of forensics Tumanov and Pertierra.
https://www.kp.ru/daily/26311.5/3189866/
https://www.cuatro.com/cuarto-milenio/programa-completo-integro-hd_18_2720055026.html

Greetings. 

Hi cib,

Why was the set up of the store illogical and suicidal location? Why was it a set up and a falsehood?  It's not a trick question and the map detail is interesting.

[tenne]

I think that with the dog bites it would be interesting to see if police dogs and army? KGB? dogs are trained differently as to where to bite? I can see non-police dogs not being trained to grab onto the arm and being trained to do much more damage but I'm not sure that is what was done or is done.

[Ziljoe]

I think that with the dog bites it would be interesting to see if police dogs and army? KGB? dogs are trained differently as to where to bite? I can see non-police dogs not being trained to grab onto the arm and being trained to do much more damage but I'm not sure that is what was done or is done.

I am no expert, on dogs trained for police or war but I have a couple of observations. In the UK and west they are trained to grab the are or thigh. With limited penetration. ( Law suits would be huge other wise, death by punctured arteries , disfigurement etc. ) .

This might not be the case in 1950's Russia, I don't know but again there is a practicality on how and why dogs are used. I don't think it has anything to do with biting a hand or the fleash of a cheek.

If the dog is trained to kill, it's a different thing all together. The examples of dog bites being shown in the photos are of untrained dogs or strays  biting. They show no sign of ripping fleash. When a trained dog bites the clothes or leg/ arm it's to stop the Pearson. At which point does the dog , if trained bite the hand or face and let go . Where are the defence wounds?

There should be forearm bite marks at the very least or open wounds at very least.

There is nothing to support dog, wolf or anything else in the autopsy?

Why bring dogs anyway?



 

[cib]

Hi, Ziljoe and Tenee. I don't want to be rude, but like Teddy I neither debate nor counter argument, because I already did it in his day and in this forum en 2019. I recommend a version with which I agree 100% and personally enriched with 3 tests:

1. Soviet Baikonur-Nova Zembla missile trajectory map.

2. Location of the crater produced by an ICBM R-7 missile.

3. Verification of the impact, by seismogram.

Version by Alexander Kas : http://istclub.ru/topic/17-%d1%82%d0%b0%d0%b9%d0%bd%d0%b0-%d0%b3%d0%b8%d0%b1

Greetings to both.

[Ziljoe]

Hi, Ziljoe and Tenee. I don't want to be rude, but like Teddy I neither debate nor counter argument, because I already did it in his day and in this forum en 2019. I recommend a version with which I agree 100% and personally enriched with 3 tests:

1. Soviet Baikonur-Nova Zembla missile trajectory map.

2. Location of the crater produced by an ICBM R-7 missile.

3. Verification of the impact, by seismogram.

Version by Alexander Kas : http://istclub.ru/topic/17-%d1%82%d0%b0%d0%b9%d0%bd%d0%b0-%d0%b3%d0%b8%d0%b1

Greetings to both.

I'm comfortable with that cib. But I will ask questions, these questions are for my own understanding.

At this moment in time I can't see or understand the use of dogs or your doubling up with a rocket test and the illogical set up of the store / labaz, / cache.

You have put forward a rocket crash, dogs and your experience with dogs and the labaz being illogical.

There must be a chronological order, which happened first?

[GlennM]

The tent was snowed up, except for the entrance, the southern abutting end, which was sticking out from under the snow. The tent’s canvas was covered with hardened swelled up snow 15-20 cm (4-6 in) deep. There was an ice-ax stuck near the entrance and a flashlight on the tent’s top, closer to the entrance. There was around 5-10 cm (2-4 in) of snow under it; however, the flashlight itself was not snowed up. No other items were noticed outside the tent. Below, to the east from the tent, there was a visible section of snow, which looked as if lowered or blown out or flattened, about 7 m (23 feet) wide.

It seems to me that if I was an assassin, I would control the situation by insisting each hiker come out one by one through the tent flap in front. Yet, the prevailing explanation is that (1) they cut their way out of the tent (2) they went in different directions upon exit (3) they regrouped and went to the woods. In short, what the physical evidence shows is the very anthisis of what a cold calculating murderer would allow. It was not murder. But, don't let facts get in the way of a good story!

[cib]

It's very simple to understand, Ziljoe. You assume that the official version is true and I am false. ¿Do I have to convince you otherwise?, no, because everyone chooses their own path. The bottom line is that the Dyatlov Pass was, is, and will continue to be a state secret that not even Yeltsin himself, with Perestroika + glasnot, could reveal, and that together with his wife they studied at the same university as the students. Likewise, the relatives of the victims wrote to Putin and washed their hands of it. In addition, on January 1, 2021, Prime Minister Mikhail Mishutin approved by legislative decree new tax regulations to expand and perpetuate said state secrets. From a legal point of view, the case will only be resolved if criminal proceedings are initiated by the relatives of the victims. In this process, the official exhumation is key to validating or refuting those that were carried out in 1959. But there is a problem that in the conference for the 64th anniversary of the tragedy, Professor Bartolomew stated, and that is that, due to longevity, they are the people involved die and there is a risk that the case will be lost in oblivion or in commemorative acts and not in critical investigation. Years ago, I told Yuri Kuntsevich that I personally paid for a drone to check the explosion crater. I also told Teddy last year and got no response from the two of us. There they...

Source: http://publication.pravo.gov.ru/Document/View/0001202111020035?index=0&rangeSize=1

Greetings.

[anna_pycckux]

I feel that prof. Bartholomew be so hostile to you.

kib, I'm asking you not to advertise the rocket version. You can open your topic on the forum. Bartholomew is against my version because he knows that my version is the only true one. At that time, he studied at UPI, he was on the council of the trade union committee, which collected dirt on Dyatlov, and therefore he is afraid that I may also accuse him of betraying the group.
THE VERSION ABOUT THE MISSILES IS A FAKE, SPREAD BY THE KGB AS DISINFORMATION. The whole of Sverdlovsk and the UPI trade union committee talked about the missile version, but no one was punished for disclosing state Secrets.

[anna_pycckux]

It seems to me that if I was an assassin, I would control the situation by insisting each hiker come out one by one through the tent flap in front.

According to my version, the group did not run out of the tent without clothes. They came out warmly dressed. They were tricked into helping (for example, a wounded hunter). Running out naked into the cold is absurd! In addition, the soles of the feet were not damaged, and the socks were not torn.

[cib]

Dear Anna:

1. cib, not kib.
2. I write what I want because democratic freedom of expression protects me.
3. You don't have to yell at me in capital letters and highlight your personal opinion in bold.
4. If you allow me, it is a bit arrogant and arrogant, that your version is the only true one.
5. Your personal problems with Professor Bartolomé are not my problems.
6. I love it when you get angry. If you visit Spain, I invite you to dinner.

Greetings.

[anna_pycckux]

The examples of dog bites being shown in the photos are of untrained dogs or strays  biting. They show no sign of ripping fleash. When a trained dog bites the clothes or leg/ arm it's to stop the Pearson.

The dogs were probably poorly trained and didn't even want to get out of the helicopter. The bites on the cheeks and hands are obvious! VOHR took dogs to catch fugitives. In this case, so that the group could not escape from the liquidators.
The guys climbed the cedar tree to escape from the dogs!

[anna_pycckux]

Dear Anna:
2. I write what I want because democratic freedom of expression protects me.

I am also for freedom of expression of my thoughts and arguments. You can refute my version, I will listen carefully and even with pleasure. But do not advertise a rocket here, otherwise I will refute in bold.