Experienced and skilled

[amashilu]

Senior Maldonado, a couple years ago on this site there was a video from one of the annual conferences that featured some high-level officials presenting their conclusion that the incident was caused by a rocket malfunctioning, flying over the area, and dripping NO2, a poisonous gas. This  poisoned the hikers, as evidenced by the gray foam on at least one of their mouths. I can't find this video right now, but I think it's under Materials Modern  (https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?board=35.0). They presented a lot of impressive evidence.

[SURI]

If dead hikers were actually found on the slope, it cannot be fantasy, but reality. After a direct hit from an unknown (known) force, these 3 hikers did not make it any further.

Zina, Rustem, and Igor were found on a single line, which went from the Cedar tree uphill, probably straight to the tent. The search team mentioned that those hikers laid on the ground in "dynamic poses", as though they died very quickly (got frozen on march?). This allows to put forward a theory that all 3 of them attempted to go back to the tent but managed to cover just part of distance, which is weird as all three were strong and trained.

This further allows to develop the theory that something killed them very quickly, as soon as they crossed invisible border. It could be that when UFO (Ivanov calls it this way) landed close to the tent, and its hard landing collapsed northen part of the tent, the tent's site got into affected zone. On levaing the tent, hikers somehow evaluated size of the affected zone and moved out of it, eventually coming to the Cedar tree. When it became critical to fetch missing clothes, equipment, medicine, Zina, Rustem, and Igor tried to go back in turn. But they did not take into account that the affected zone kept expanding in direction to the ravine/Cedar. As soon as a hiker reached front of approaching affected zone, he/she died very quickly. Finally, affected zone reached the ravine, and that was end of the story.

Only two of them were found in dynamic poses, so Dyatlov was not returning anywhere.

Then there is Slobodin, who had everything he needed to write a note, but he didn't. Nor did anyone else borrow his writing utensils and take notes.

The end of the story was when the force that caused everything ceased to exist once all the hikers died.

[Senior Maldonado]

Senior Maldonado, a couple years ago on this site there was a video from one of the annual conferences that featured some high-level officials presenting their conclusion that the incident was caused by a rocket malfunctioning, flying over the area, and dripping NO2, a poisonous gas. This  poisoned the hikers, as evidenced by the gray foam on at least one of their mouths. I can't find this video right now, but I think it's under Materials Modern  (https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?board=35.0). They presented a lot of impressive evidence.

I guess you mean Vadim Skibinsky's theory that R-12 mid-range missile was launched from Polyarny site, north to Dyatlov Pass. Vadim belives that due to some technical issue the missile lost its fuel, but kept oxydizer - NO₂.  Good idea, but I think it is wrong. It is capital that UFO landed on the slope, not passed by.

Please have a look at the photo taken by Lev Ivanov in May 1959, when he came to DP for the 3rd time to look at the last 4 hiker's bodies found in the ravine. In May snow started to thaw and very interesting pattern was revealed on the slope. It resembles a river, which is narrow at the beginning and gets wide at the end. The river repeates the way, which hikers followed when relocated downhill.

[amashilu]

Then there is Slobodin, who had everything he needed to write a note, but he didn't. Nor did anyone else borrow his writing utensils and take notes.

Suri, I think you might be mistaking Slobodin for Zolotaryev, who (it is often said) was found with a notebook and a pencil. Slobodin was not, to my knowledge, found with a notebook or a writing utensil.

[SURI]

Then there is Slobodin, who had everything he needed to write a note, but he didn't. Nor did anyone else borrow his writing utensils and take notes.

Suri, I think you might be mistaking Slobodin for Zolotaryev, who (it is often said) was found with a notebook and a pencil. Slobodin was not, to my knowledge, found with a notebook or a writing utensil.

Slobodin was found with a pencil and pen, and he also had a letter with him. Theoretically, he could write, but practically, he couldn't.

[Hunter]

Quoting in the original language:
На трупе Слободина Р. одето: свитр черный х/бумажный, под ним ковбойка. Между свитром и ковбойкой лежат 2 войлочные стельки, в кармане ковбойки авторучка, паспорт на имя Слободина, деньги 310 рублей (100, 50х4 и 10 руб),  носки под ковбойкой серая трикотажная с начесом рубашка, а под ней майка. Брюки лыжные, под ними синие тренировочные брюки, теплые кальсоны (пара рубашке), сатиновые трусы, в лыжных брюках перочинный нож, расческа и карандаш.

I've highlighted in bold what you could write with and what you could write on—a fountain pen, a pencil, a passport, and paper money.
Moreover, a pencil allowed you to write even in freezing temperatures.

[Ziljoe]

Senior Maldonado, a couple years ago on this site there was a video from one of the annual conferences that featured some high-level officials presenting their conclusion that the incident was caused by a rocket malfunctioning, flying over the area, and dripping NO2, a poisonous gas. This  poisoned the hikers, as evidenced by the gray foam on at least one of their mouths. I can't find this video right now, but I think it's under Materials Modern  (https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?board=35.0). They presented a lot of impressive evidence.

I guess you mean Vadim Skibinsky's theory that R-12 mid-range missile was launched from Polyarny site, north to Dyatlov Pass. Vadim belives that due to some technical issue the missile lost its fuel, but kept oxydizer - NO₂.  Good idea, but I think it is wrong. It is capital that UFO landed on the slope, not passed by.

Please have a look at the photo taken by Lev Ivanov in May 1959, when he came to DP for the 3rd time to look at the last 4 hiker's bodies found in the ravine. In May snow started to thaw and very interesting pattern was revealed on the slope. It resembles a river, which is narrow at the beginning and gets wide at the end. The river repeates the way, which hikers followed when relocated downhill.

This is again natural thawing of the winter snow. Where the snow remains is where it is at deepest. What we see is where the wind blows away the snow during winter and does not lie , which will be thinner snow levels . Come the spring which occurs before the Month of May , the thaw causes running melt water . One must look at the topography  of the area and understand the process of nature . I am pretty sure if a photo was taken in May every year from the location of the photo you submitted, we would get the exact same ( give or take) erosion of the snow through a spring thaw.

The hikers basically walked  down the natural ravine/ gully of the natural  landscape . The ravine is the start of the the river where natural erosion occurs , this natural erosion is what causes the ravine and exposed rocks on the hillside. When a thaw occurs the sun aids the melting of the thinner depth of snow and , in parallel the whole slope thaws , the melt water from the the slope of the collective mountain side aids the dispersion of the snow .

In basic simple terms , what your picture shows is natural thawing of snow due to how nature works . Not a ray gun or any other nonsense. Your argument might have sense if the slope looked like that in February, but it didn't.

If you look at Google earth maps you will see this. In fact you can Google dyatlov pass , go into maps and see a number of photos by people that have been there . Oddly enough there is even a photo of a snow bridge in the upper ravine . When I say upper ravine , I do not mean where the ravine 4 were found , it is the ravine where Igor , zina Rustem were found.

To be honest, I can't even believe I have to explain how snow melts on a hill side to counter argue against an overwhelming force and a tabloid article about UFO's / fire balls/ heat rays. Let alone explain tree windburn and what a treeline is.

Yes ,by all means argue some air blast,but don't rewrite how nature works.

[Senior Maldonado]

by all means argue some air blast,but don't rewrite how nature works.

Congratulations! You have come to the same conclusion as Central Committee of Communist Party of the Soviet Union -- the Dyatlov group died because of natural calamity and lack of experience. Having such strong player at your side as Communist Party, you should be proud and confident in the result, should not you? 

[SURI]

Yes, a completely natural photo that is not even worth commenting on. Whether the trees were burned or not, it had no effect on the deaths of the hikers. It is better to focus on more essential things that are being overlooked.

[Ziljoe]

by all means argue some air blast,but don't rewrite how nature works.

Congratulations! You have come to the same conclusion as Central Committee of Communist Party of the Soviet Union -- the Dyatlov group died because of natural calamity and lack of experience. Having such strong player at your side as Communist Party, you should be proud and confident in the result, should not you? 

We should not be avoiding nature in our search and stereotyping the Communist party doesn't bring much to the table . Why you bring the communist party in to it I will never know. Ivanov called the hikers amateurs, ivanov also said it was a UFO or ray gun not an explosion , so we are stuck with wind burn again and your trees that you highlight in the "north" will be exposed to the sun.


So back to your photo, what does the pattern on the slope tell us ? Are you agreeing with ivanov it was a UFO and some sort of ray gun or are you saying it was an explosion ?

[Senior Maldonado]

We should not be avoiding nature in our search and stereotyping the Communist party doesn't bring much to the table . Why you bring the communist party in to it I will never know.

The point is that DPI attracted attention of Mr.Kruschev, who was the 1st secretary of the Communist party at that time. You know that Ivanov closed the criminal file on May 28th declaring that the hikers faced "elemental force, which they did not manage to overcome". And shortly after that, on May 30th, Mr.Drozdov, member of Central Committee, provided a report to the Central Committee on DPI, which said that the hikers left the tent due to natural calamity and were killed by "big hurricane". So everybody, who says that the Dyatlov group died because of natural causes, is in line with what was reported to (and accepted by) the Communist party of the Soviet Union. You may read more about it here, and I hope you can use Google translator to help your reading:

https://www.kp.ru/daily/26487/3356767

Ivanov called the hikers amateurs, ivanov also said it was a UFO or ray gun not an explosion , so we are stuck with wind burn again and your trees that you highlight in the "north" will be exposed to the sun.

Not exactly.

First of all, Lev Ivanov was a good Prosecutor's Office investigator. It cannot be that he failed to see traces of avalanche in 1959 and later, in 1990, mixed in his newspaper's article apologies to hikers' relatives, blames of the authorities that they told lies about DPI, and promotion of science fiction. We should take as a starting point his statement that the hikers died because of some flying object, which made them to leave the tent. Ivanov calls it UFO and suggests to resume investigation to identify the UFO's origin.

Why do you say that Ivanov did not talk about explosion? Explosion is a core of his theory. From his interview to Stanislav Bogomolov:

Ivanov: Then I assumed it, and now I am sure. I can’t pretend to say what kind of balls they are — whether they are weapons, aliens or something else, but I’m sure that this is directly related to the deaths of the hikers.
Bogomolov: But how do you imagine it? The pilots, geologists who traveled and flew these lands, they all say that there are no signs of an explosion near Otorten and the surrounding area.
Ivanov: It wasn't in the usual sense an explosion of a shell or a bomb. It was different, as if a balloon had burst. The fact, that at the edge of the forest, where the hikers so hastily ran away from the tent, the tree branches were as if singed. Not burnt, not broken, but singed.

Are you agreeing with ivanov it was a UFO and some sort of ray gun or are you saying it was an explosion ?

I completly dismiss UFO, pointed heat rays, and austroauts chasing the hikers. Yes, it was an explosion of rocket's fuel mixed with air and dragged by wind downhill. And air wave from explosion was the force, which threw the 4 hikers to the bottom of the ravine.

[sarapuk]

Something that puzzles me .... we have nine experienced, skilled, strong hikers, including one who had gone through World War II, and yet it is repeatedly suggested that one or more of them stepped into the wrong area of snow and fell into a ravine.  I'm pretty sure they knew they were near the water, so wouldn't they naturally be on the alert for this kind of danger? There are indications in the shape and pattern of the snow when water is underneath. Is it really likely that one -- or four -- of these skilled and experienced hikers simply fell through some snow into a rocky ravine?

I wouldn't say that it was repeatedly suggested. But they were experienced. Also, some of the descriptions of the ravine suggest that it was some kind of formidable obstacle. It wasn't much of a ravine, more of a gulley, a fairly gentle gulley.

[sarapuk]

Yes, but they knew the ravine was there, and all of their cumulative skills and experience, not to mention the extra advantage of a WW II veteran, should make falling through the snow into the ravine an unlikely occurrence. It is more of a rookie mistake.

My brother and I spent much of our childhood exploring the snowy, frozen creeks of northern Minnesota and we learned to recognize depressions in the snow, softening melty snow, trickling sounds, and other signs indicating that we were close to a ravine. I get what you're saying, Ziljoe, but I still think falling through the snow into the ravine they knew was there, is unlikely.

Senior Maldonado suggests that they didn't fall through the snow, but some force smacked them against the rocks in the ravine. Now I'm wondering about that. What force might be able to do that?

An unknown compelling force, maybe. The same force that was responsible for driving them from their tent, maybe.

 

[sarapuk]

I favour a collapse of snow from above but that has its holes too.
I am waiting for Senior Maldonado with mild anticipation too.

Even big mass of snow could not be resposible for the Ravine 4 injuries. I would rather stick with doctor Vozrozhdenny's comment, which he provided during his interrogation on May 28th -- the hikers were affected by explosive air wave. Wave's front acts as a big hummer, it strikes, throws people to the ground. Front is immediately followed by zone of very high pressure. And in our case that high-pressure airflow acted as a press. It pushed the hikers into creek's rocks and fractured their bones.  The wave acted from up to down and from slope to the forest (=ravine). Slope->Forest component of the force overturned people to the ground, while Up->Down component pressed their bodies into rocks. I do not believe anybody was able to move after that. And then timer started what would come first -- death from injuries or death from hypothermia.


And what kind of explosive air wave could that be? And was it following them from the tent to Cedar tree to ravine or gulley, as I prefer to call it?



Please, do not throw stones at me, it's how I see that sad episode...

[sarapuk]

Lev Ivanov: " .... When already in May we examined the scene of the incident with E. Maslennikov * * we found that some young trees on the forest tree line have traces of burning, but they are not in concentric shape or any other system. There was no epicenter. This once again confirmed a source of heat ray or completely unknown to us energy acting selectively - the snow was not melted, the trees were not damaged."

He is saying that there was no pattern. The damaged trees seemed randomly selected or targeted almost as if on purpose.

If an unknown force is at play, then it can be expected that randomness may occur. For instance, if you shoot a gun, then bullets may hit or miss the intended target and hit something else.

[sarapuk]

Could you give a diagram of the trees he was referring to as I get mixed up.

Sure. Here you are. The ravine, where the 4 bodies were found, was located right in front of the forest -- its tree line. And Lev Ivanov spoke about young trees that had been lightly burned with no obvious pattern and had been somewhere at the tree line. Unfortunately, Mr.Ivanov has not provided more precise location of the young trees.

From such photos you can see why the use of the word Ravine can be misleading. It looks like a gentle Gulley. But an ideal spot for snow to accumulate.

[sarapuk]

If dead hikers were actually found on the slope, it cannot be fantasy, but reality. After a direct hit from an unknown (known) force, these 3 hikers did not make it any further.

Zina, Rustem, and Igor were found on a single line, which went from the Cedar tree uphill, probably straight to the tent. The search team mentioned that those hikers laid on the ground in "dynamic poses", as though they died very quickly (got frozen on march?). This allows to put forward a theory that all 3 of them attempted to go back to the tent but managed to cover just part of distance, which is weird as all three were strong and trained.

This further allows to develop the theory that something killed them very quickly, as soon as they crossed invisible border. It could be that when UFO (Ivanov calls it this way) landed close to the tent, and its hard landing collapsed northen part of the tent, the tent's site got into affected zone. On levaing the tent, hikers somehow evaluated size of the affected zone and moved out of it, eventually coming to the Cedar tree. When it became critical to fetch missing clothes, equipment, medicine, Zina, Rustem, and Igor tried to go back in turn. But they did not take into account that the affected zone kept expanding in direction to the ravine/Cedar. As soon as a hiker reached front of approaching affected zone, he/she died very quickly. Finally, affected zone reached the ravine, and that was end of the story.

Affected zone is an interesting way of putting it. Presumably, you are referring to an unknown force. The force is at the tent, then the Cedar tree, then the ravine/gulley. And maybe also on the slope when some try to get back to the tent, unless they succumbed to the weather.

[sarapuk]

by all means argue some air blast,but don't rewrite how nature works.

Congratulations! You have come to the same conclusion as Central Committee of Communist Party of the Soviet Union -- the Dyatlov group died because of natural calamity and lack of experience. Having such strong player at your side as Communist Party, you should be proud and confident in the result, should not you? 

I think the official line that was given out from the powers that be was that it was due to an unknown compelling force. Which could mean anything really including a paranormal event.

[sarapuk]

We should not be avoiding nature in our search and stereotyping the Communist party doesn't bring much to the table . Why you bring the communist party in to it I will never know.

The point is that DPI attracted attention of Mr.Kruschev, who was the 1st secretary of the Communist party at that time. You know that Ivanov closed the criminal file on May 28th declaring that the hikers faced "elemental force, which they did not manage to overcome". And shortly after that, on May 30th, Mr.Drozdov, member of Central Committee, provided a report to the Central Committee on DPI, which said that the hikers left the tent due to natural calamity and were killed by "big hurricane". So everybody, who says that the Dyatlov group died because of natural causes, is in line with what was reported to (and accepted by) the Communist party of the Soviet Union. You may read more about it here, and I hope you can use Google translator to help your reading:

https://www.kp.ru/daily/26487/3356767

Ivanov called the hikers amateurs, ivanov also said it was a UFO or ray gun not an explosion , so we are stuck with wind burn again and your trees that you highlight in the "north" will be exposed to the sun.

Not exactly.

First of all, Lev Ivanov was a good Prosecutor's Office investigator. It cannot be that he failed to see traces of avalanche in 1959 and later, in 1990, mixed in his newspaper's article apologies to hikers' relatives, blames of the authorities that they told lies about DPI, and promotion of science fiction. We should take as a starting point his statement that the hikers died because of some flying object, which made them to leave the tent. Ivanov calls it UFO and suggests to resume investigation to identify the UFO's origin.

Why do you say that Ivanov did not talk about explosion? Explosion is a core of his theory. From his interview to Stanislav Bogomolov:

Ivanov: Then I assumed it, and now I am sure. I can’t pretend to say what kind of balls they are — whether they are weapons, aliens or something else, but I’m sure that this is directly related to the deaths of the hikers.
Bogomolov: But how do you imagine it? The pilots, geologists who traveled and flew these lands, they all say that there are no signs of an explosion near Otorten and the surrounding area.
Ivanov: It wasn't in the usual sense an explosion of a shell or a bomb. It was different, as if a balloon had burst. The fact, that at the edge of the forest, where the hikers so hastily ran away from the tent, the tree branches were as if singed. Not burnt, not broken, but singed.

Are you agreeing with ivanov it was a UFO and some sort of ray gun or are you saying it was an explosion ?

I completly dismiss UFO, pointed heat rays, and austroauts chasing the hikers. Yes, it was an explosion of rocket's fuel mixed with air and dragged by wind downhill. And air wave from explosion was the force, which threw the 4 hikers to the bottom of the ravine.

See below.

''On May 30, 1959, the deputy head of the department of administrative and trade-financial bodies of the Central Committee of the CPSU for the RSFSR, Drozdov, wrote a report to higher authorities (perhaps to Khrushchev himself?) about what happened to the Dyatlov group.''
"The death was the result of a natural disaster. The immediate cause of the group's death was a major hurricane."

Only a deputy head of a department. And one concerning admin and trade-finance! And not even knowing if it was going to Khrushchev!
 In fact, Khrushchev was very interested in the Dyatlov Mystery in later years.
If it were a cut-and-dry job, such as a weather event as suggested, why was the Leader of the USSR still interested in the Dyatlov  Mystery?

[Senior Maldonado]

I think the official line that was given out from the powers that be was that it was due to an unknown compelling force. Which could mean anything really including a paranormal event.

It is worth mentioning that the real political power in the Soviet Union at  that time was Communist Party represented by it's Central Committee. Regarding our case, not only Prosecutor's office ran investigation in 1959, but also special commission of Obcom - Sverdlovsk's branch of Communist Party. While Ivanov stated that the hikers were hit by unknown compelling force, the commission was more precise. The commission stated that the hikers were killed by 'big hurricane'. And the commission's report was delived to Central Committee, and all Central Committee's secretaries (top ranking people) put their signatures that they understood and accepted the report.

In 2019 Prosecutor's office initiated new investigation, which brought very interesting results. The new investigator declared two avalanches, one on the slope, another - in the ravine. Shortly after that he was fired. )

[Senior Maldonado]

Only a deputy head of a department. And one concerning admin and trade-finance! And not even knowing if it was going to Khrushchev!

Do you think it is easy like that? No way!

The word "admin" means that this department of Central Committee performed supervision of Ministry of Internal Affairs, KGB, Prosecutor's office. All these bodies were instruments of the Communist Party, which was the real power in the Soviet Union. Please, do not underestimate influence of this department!

And do you know why the report was delivered by deputy head? The head, Mr.Kidin, was kicked from his position on April 10th, 1959. What is interesting, exactly the same day Central Committee received investigation report from Sverdlovski Obcom -- the hikers were hit by hurricane...

[sarapuk]

I think the official line that was given out from the powers that be was that it was due to an unknown compelling force. Which could mean anything really including a paranormal event.

It is worth mentioning that the real political power in the Soviet Union at  that time was Communist Party represented by it's Central Committee. Regarding our case, not only Prosecutor's office ran investigation in 1959, but also special commission of Obcom - Sverdlovsk's branch of Communist Party. While Ivanov stated that the hikers were hit by unknown compelling force, the commission was more precise. The commission stated that the hikers were killed by 'big hurricane'. And the commission's report was delived to Central Committee, and all Central Committee's secretaries (top ranking people) put their signatures that they understood and accepted the report.

In 2019 Prosecutor's office initiated new investigation, which brought very interesting results. The new investigator declared two avalanches, one on the slope, another - in the ravine. Shortly after that he was fired. )

Well, of course, if the authorities wanted to cover something up, then they would make up a convenient story. A severe weather event would be nice and convenient.

[sarapuk]

Only a deputy head of a department. And one concerning admin and trade-finance! And not even knowing if it was going to Khrushchev!

Do you think it is easy like that? No way!

The word "admin" means that this department of Central Committee performed supervision of Ministry of Internal Affairs, KGB, Prosecutor's office. All these bodies were instruments of the Communist Party, which was the real power in the Soviet Union. Please, do not underestimate influence of this department!

And do you know why the report was delivered by deputy head? The head, Mr.Kidin, was kicked from his position on April 10th, 1959. What is interesting, exactly the same day Central Committee received investigation report from Sverdlovski Obcom -- the hikers were hit by hurricane...

Sounds very convenient to have an extreme weather event to blame for the Dyatlov Group's demise. Not to say that the weather did not play its part. But there are too many questions that don't fit with the weather event as the reason for the sequence of events under the umbrella of the event which took place at the tent.

[SURI]

Sounds very convenient to have an extreme weather event to blame for the Dyatlov Group's demise. Not to say that the weather did not play its part. But there are too many questions that don't fit with the weather event as the reason for the sequence of events under the umbrella of the event which took place at the tent.

Yes, interesting things were happening at the tent. There was no rush, the tent was not collapsed, there was time to take pictures, the most important thing was to take pictures of what was needed and not only at the tent.

[Ziljoe]

We should not be avoiding nature in our search and stereotyping the Communist party doesn't bring much to the table . Why you bring the communist party in to it I will never know.

The point is that DPI attracted attention of Mr.Kruschev, who was the 1st secretary of the Communist party at that time. You know that Ivanov closed the criminal file on May 28th declaring that the hikers faced "elemental force, which they did not manage to overcome". And shortly after that, on May 30th, Mr.Drozdov, member of Central Committee, provided a report to the Central Committee on DPI, which said that the hikers left the tent due to natural calamity and were killed by "big hurricane". So everybody, who says that the Dyatlov group died because of natural causes, is in line with what was reported to (and accepted by) the Communist party of the Soviet Union. You may read more about it here, and I hope you can use Google translator to help your reading:

https://www.kp.ru/daily/26487/3356767

How much Kruschev and those surrounding him were involved is open for debate . It is not so much that the DPI attracted his attention but more the fact that the Kremlin were informed of the incident by family members of the missing hikers . The families,having reported the delayed return were getting ignored by those that should take action. It was the family members that escalated it.

This is a standered process in any country when an organisation or institution  fails in its duties to its citizens. You then by pass that government department and go above. If nothing else , it is to embarrass the institution in to taking the action you want. In this case , it's to get the UPI to get it's finger out of it's butt and pull all the resources it can to find the missing hikers ....

Disregarding the reason as to why the hiker's left the tent , we can instantly see the failure of the UPi or sports committee.  Within that context the case is now high profile, we have a failure of systems , trust and solidarity to the public and it's youth.

The families and friends of the hikers are disgusted/frustrated by the lack of care and quite possibly the Kremlin feels the same ?.

From this initial contact to the Kremlin, the Kremlin now have to show that they are invested to find the missing students and that the government will look after its people.

As I understand it and from what I've now read , this is the context of how the Kremlin came to be involved .

Ivanov called the hikers amateurs, ivanov also said it was a UFO or ray gun not an explosion , so we are stuck with wind burn again and your trees that you highlight in the "north" will be exposed to the sun.

Not exactly.

First of all, Lev Ivanov was a good Prosecutor's Office investigator. It cannot be that he failed to see traces of avalanche in 1959 and later, in 1990, mixed in his newspaper's article apologies to hikers' relatives, blames of the authorities that they told lies about DPI, and promotion of science fiction. We should take as a starting point his statement that the hikers died because of some flying object, which made them to leave the tent. Ivanov calls it UFO and suggests to resume investigation to identify the UFO's origin.

Why do you say that Ivanov did not talk about explosion? Explosion is a core of his theory. From his interview to Stanislav Bogomolov:

Ivanov: Then I assumed it, and now I am sure. I can’t pretend to say what kind of balls they are — whether they are weapons, aliens or something else, but I’m sure that this is directly related to the deaths of the hikers.
Bogomolov: But how do you imagine it? The pilots, geologists who traveled and flew these lands, they all say that there are no signs of an explosion near Otorten and the surrounding area.
Ivanov: It wasn't in the usual sense an explosion of a shell or a bomb. It was different, as if a balloon had burst. The fact, that at the edge of the forest, where the hikers so hastily ran away from the tent, the tree branches were as if singed. Not burnt, not broken, but singed.


 

You say not exactly but exactly what you are referring to?.

Ivano said many things and many people have said he said things , including his later interviews and his alleged findings . On one hand you say he was thorough and a great investigator but you seem to contradict that by saying he got things wrong but you know what happened? I'm not trying to have a go , I just want details  and I'm cautious of quotes being cherry picked to create a narrative .

It is reported that on his return when the ravine 4 were found , ivanov was not interested. He was allegedly standing about and not participating in a manor expected by an investigator. At this point in May , he has no reason to expect an explosion at that moment in time and doesn't do any investigation regarding an explosion. All this comes later. (I'll , need to find the quote of where he eliminates an explosion.) 


 

[Senior Maldonado]

On one hand you say he was thorough and a great investigator but you seem to contradict that by saying he got things wrong but you know what happened? I'm not trying to have a go , I just want details  and I'm cautious of quotes being cherry picked to create a narrative.

It's not me, who says that Ivanov was efficient and thorough investigator.  Saying that I repeat what his boss, Evgeni Okishev, says:

Question: How long had Ivanov worked as a criminal prosecutor?
E.Okishev: Since early 1954, from the moment this position was created.
Question: Was he a good investigator?
E.Okishev: I reckon, excellent. Meticulous and very thorough.

The full text can be found here: https://dyatlovpass.com/evgeniy-okishev-2014?rbid=18461
And I just try to be pragmatic. Who knows better what type of professional Ivanov was than his boss?

Btw, I strongly suggest you reading both Mr.Okishev's interviews. The one mentioned above and also: https://dyatlovpass.com/evgeniy-okishev-2013-ru .

I'll , need to find the quote of where he eliminates an explosion.

Please do that. I am interested to see the quote, as I obviously overlooked it. My understanding is that Ivanov started to suspect an explosion, when he saw burned young trees near the ravine early in May. He got more grounds to suspect an explosion, when Vozrozhdenny mentioned explosive air wave talking to Ivanov on May 28th. But exactly that day Ivanov closed the case...

[Ziljoe]

Great amount of comments it's difficult to keep track of them all.

From my perspective and to give some context over the last few posts.

The tent

As hunter and Teddy have said , it wasn't being stored for any importance. That goes for all the hikers equipment, it was given back to the families and UPI. The food from the labaz was given to the searchers to eat . Nothing was kept for any secret reason and nothing was stopped from being returned to the rightful owners. The tent was a ripped up pile of old canvas , if it was anything more it would have been written in the case files .

The Kremlin

They got mentioned because the family wrote to them . It is not the other way round. There is no mention of Khrushchev being interested.

The CPSU, KGB , secrecy and reports.

They were involved in many reports and investigations of all sorts of accidents and incidents in the Soviet Union. The list is huge and covers many years. The majority of these accidents seem to be filed away and to some level or other the documents were kept "secret" ,if that is even the correct word. These accidents involved everything from , nuclear leaks , floods, numerous railway crashes , fires in factories , schools , cinemas, , explosions, explosions , buses , gases, car, airplanes, missile silos , hikers ( at least 4 similar to the dyatliv pass) , young hikers , mass drownings , alcohol abuse in many instances of the above. Prisoners, jail's , a day when the the sun disappeared. You name it and it's happened, in many cases the death toll has been in the hundreds.

Unknown compelling force

This phrase has been talked about too many times. In the reports to the above accidents , when they don't have the answer to why something happened, for example how a fire started or why a plane component failed , they write" unknown ". But here's the twist , when they do know what happened, they write that as well . This includes cigarettes in a missile silo , drinking whilst operating equipment,incompetence to protect schools or acts of terrorism , two pilots having a bet that a plane could be landed on only reading the instruments and not looking out the window. Whoever messes up gets consequences.
You name it , it's documented , the point being , having read a few of them now , if there was a secret, for example ;escaped prisoners , radiation, failed military test , crashed planes or rockets etc. They will have written it in the case files and not hid any secret for the long-term.

So , unknown compelling force means what it says and the interpretation might sound better or be more similar to "unknown overwhelming circumstances" .  It is not a lie to write unknown, they might just be telling the truth ?

[amashilu]

Quote from Senior Maldonado:  "..... My understanding is that Ivanov started to suspect an explosion, when he saw burned young trees near the ravine early in May. He got more grounds to suspect an explosion, when Vozrozhdenny mentioned explosive air wave talking to Ivanov on May 28th."

It is my understanding that Ivanov became gradually just like us, confused and frustrated with evidence that contradicts other evidence, no leads, information that led nowhere .... and after trying to figure it out for so long, he finally wrote, regarding possible origins of the tragedy:  "There is nothing left but the sky and its contents."

[Ziljoe]

On one hand you say he was thorough and a great investigator but you seem to contradict that by saying he got things wrong but you know what happened? I'm not trying to have a go , I just want details  and I'm cautious of quotes being cherry picked to create a narrative.

It's not me, who says that Ivanov was efficient and thorough investigator.  Saying that I repeat what his boss, Evgeni Okishev, says:

Question: How long had Ivanov worked as a criminal prosecutor?
E.Okishev: Since early 1954, from the moment this position was created.
Question: Was he a good investigator?
E.Okishev: I reckon, excellent. Meticulous and very thorough.

The full text can be found here: https://dyatlovpass.com/evgeniy-okishev-2014?rbid=18461
And I just try to be pragmatic. Who knows better what type of professional Ivanov was than his boss?

Btw, I strongly suggest you reading both Mr.Okishev's interviews. The one mentioned above and also: https://dyatlovpass.com/evgeniy-okishev-2013-ru .

I'll , need to find the quote of where he eliminates an explosion.

Please do that. I am interested to see the quote, as I obviously overlooked it. My understanding is that Ivanov started to suspect an explosion, when he saw burned young trees near the ravine early in May. He got more grounds to suspect an explosion, when Vozrozhdenny mentioned explosive air wave talking to Ivanov on May 28th. But exactly that day Ivanov closed the case...

Thank you, I have read them before although I will need to do it again. I have dismissed anything ivanov says other than the original case files. Ivanov gets pulled apart by others and on other forums. Ivanov's chronology of events seems to trip him up. There is a big difference to think something looked burnt and is burnt. It's why wind or winter burn is called this. Also Ivanov wouldn't have known about the broken ribs until after the autopsy , not when he was at the ravine. Anyway, I suspect you may have other evidence, so please continue.

[Senior Maldonado]

There is a big difference to think something looked burnt and is burnt. It's why wind or winter burn is called this. Also Ivanov wouldn't have known about the broken ribs until after the autopsy , not when he was at the ravine.

Not only Ivanov, nobody knew about broken ribs and cracked skull until the autopsy. In my eyes it plays in favor of explosion, since Ivanov started to look for an epicenter, melted snow, abd broken trees even not knowing about the injuries of the Ravine 4. Just observing the surrounding territory he started to suspect an explosion. You say the trees were wind or winter burnt. How do you know that? Do you see appropriate lab test in the original case files? It's your word against Ivanov's word, but Ivanov has an advantage, he was on the spot in 1959. And it is very important to note, Ivanov stressed that the trees were singed, not burnt. Yes, there are different types of burns: fire burns, frost burns, wind burns, etc. But 'singed' means lightly touched by fire. So, Ivanov meant fire, and that's why he started to look for explosion's traces.

When you say that Ivanov might had confused fire burnt trees with wind or winter burnt trees, you basically say that Ivanov was not competent. despite his boss says he was an excellent investigator. OK, at least, we cannot say that Ivanov lacked good intuition. The Ravine 4 were found in clear water of mountain creek -- part of untouched nature. However, Ivanov initiated radiation lab test, and (oh, gosh!) the test showed that the clothing was contaminated. Maybe, when looking for epicenter, he was led by his good intuition as well?