Lights in the Sky

[sarapuk]

Not quite sure, how we arrived at UFOs from names and their origin.

But the damages to Dubininas face is most likely due to her lying in the thawing snow for weeks. There might be damages due to bacteria and microorganisms or maybe even due to small rodents or the like. I'd go as far as accept the chance that the missing eyes might be caused by some pressure wave that was created by an explosion, as someone suggested in another thread.
Why for the love of all gods should an UFO take Dubinina and cut out her eyes and tongue?

Thats the usual cop out. To say that the injuries were due to being in water, or and due to little animals or micro life forms. But they were significant injuries highly unlikely to have been caused by water or little creatures that prey on dead matter.

What indicators are there pointing to her injuries being UNLIKELY to be caused by water or terrestrial life forms?

sarapuk,

In all of the speculation about anything connected to the DPI, the missing eyes and tongue are the easiest to explain. All of the ravine 4 had missing skin around their scalp, eyes , hairline etc. it would be complete madness to expect other wise. Eyeballs shrink rapidly after 24 hours of death plus they probably went through several processes of thawing and freezing in water as the season continued.

The orifices are precisely the areas of where flesh starts to decay. As much is said about the alleged cattle mutilations. It's certainly not a cop out, it's a rational and logical as we can be .

One of my interests is the paranormal, and UFO's etc. And in recent times I have become interested in the phenomenon of cattle and animal mutilations. And most of them are not water related events. In fact many occurring in dry conditions and the bodies were found shortly after their demises. Not enough time for animal predation or decomposition. Also I have come across some human mutilations in some parts of the World. All of them having similar injuries and similar to the injuries on 2 of the Dyatlov group.

[GlennM]

8.23 billion people on this spaceship. Surely Sarapuk will find something coincidentally similar.

UFO? Funny how they can travel from Proxima Centauri all that way through interstellar space, come to earth and they have to use their parking lights

[sarapuk]

8.23 billion people on this spaceship. Surely Sarapuk will find something coincidentally similar.

UFO? Funny how they can travel from Proxima Centauri all that way through interstellar space, come to earth and they have to use their parking lights

Funny how I haven't even suggested that UFO's do such things. Unidentified Flying Objects could be anything. And they could be from anywhere ! 

[amashilu]

Funny how I haven't even suggested that UFO's do such things. Unidentified Flying Objects could be anything. And they could be from anywhere !

Yes. When Ivanov concluded that the only thing left (that is, unexplored or not able to be ruled out) that could be responsible for the DPI deaths was the lights in the sky, he was careful to point out that these lights did not have to be "piloted" objects. In other words, they could be anything, such as weather phenomena.

[GlennM]

A grounded discussion of lights in the sky may certainly shine a spotlight on what is and what isn't a flight of fantasy.

[Marc]

Let's start with a simple question: what is most likely to kill a person in such a remote place?

First: an event obviously related to weather and natural phenomena (avalanche, rockfall, hypothermia, slip, fall, worsening weather conditions, etc.). The main reasons for the death of climbers and hikers in high mountains, snowy and wild areas.

Second: a slightly less likely reason: another person. History and criminal chronicles are full of people killed by other people. A common phenomenon in human society. This also includes suicide and government conspiracy. Of course, rare enough in remote areas

Third: UFOs, jetis, spirits, teleportation, etc. The frequency of proven cases is unknown in the world. Even less known in remote places

The first two are common and have occurred in the past. Without a doubt, the cause of the Dyatlov Pass incident with a 99.99% probability.
The probability of the third option is less than 0.01% (my estimate), and therefore it is completely irrelevant to spend your time on this possibility. It is more of a thrill-seeking and fantasy syndrome.

These three groups, of course, include less likely subgroups (such as a meteor strike, ball lightning, or going crazy and fighting among themselves, etc.).

The percentages are my personal and arbitrary estimate (and divide the division of groups into subgroups) and an arbitrary understanding of common sense.

This was a post with a slighth irony.

[Ziljoe]

What happened ? !.

I've been teleported to another thread where the other posts are missing!

[Ziljoe]

Not quite sure, how we arrived at UFOs from names and their origin.

But the damages to Dubininas face is most likely due to her lying in the thawing snow for weeks. There might be damages due to bacteria and microorganisms or maybe even due to small rodents or the like. I'd go as far as accept the chance that the missing eyes might be caused by some pressure wave that was created by an explosion, as someone suggested in another thread.
Why for the love of all gods should an UFO take Dubinina and cut out her eyes and tongue?

Thats the usual cop out. To say that the injuries were due to being in water, or and due to little animals or micro life forms. But they were significant injuries highly unlikely to have been caused by water or little creatures that prey on dead matter.

What indicators are there pointing to her injuries being UNLIKELY to be caused by water or terrestrial life forms?

sarapuk,

In all of the speculation about anything connected to the DPI, the missing eyes and tongue are the easiest to explain. All of the ravine 4 had missing skin around their scalp, eyes , hairline etc. it would be complete madness to expect other wise. Eyeballs shrink rapidly after 24 hours of death plus they probably went through several processes of thawing and freezing in water as the season continued.

The orifices are precisely the areas of where flesh starts to decay. As much is said about the alleged cattle mutilations. It's certainly not a cop out, it's a rational and logical as we can be .

One of my interests is the paranormal, and UFO's etc. And in recent times I have become interested in the phenomenon of cattle and animal mutilations. And most of them are not water related events. In fact many occurring in dry conditions and the bodies were found shortly after their demises. Not enough time for animal predation or decomposition. Also I have come across some human mutilations in some parts of the World. All of them having similar injuries and similar to the injuries on 2 of the Dyatlov group.

I too , have been interested in UFO's and the paranormal for many year's. I am also reasonably familiar with animal mutilation . Unfortunately, after many years of researching and looking into things, ( I used  to buy UFO monthly) not one bit of evidence has been presented.

The ravine 4 were in water with air pockets . They had been lying in that ravine from the beginning of February, until May , that is 3 months of exposure. Think of the 2 Yuri's at the cedar if they had been lying in the open for another 2 months , their bodies would be different to how they were first found .

There has been an enormous amount of time for decomposition of the ravine 4.

[Ziljoe]

Funny how I haven't even suggested that UFO's do such things. Unidentified Flying Objects could be anything. And they could be from anywhere !

Yes. When Ivanov concluded that the only thing left (that is, unexplored or not able to be ruled out) that could be responsible for the DPI deaths was the lights in the sky, he was careful to point out that these lights did not have to be "piloted" objects. In other words, they could be anything, such as weather phenomena.

I don't think he concluded anything and I'm cautious that the journalist or later interviews were misstatements.

Depending on what article you are referring to , it notes the two eye witness statements for the 17th of February 1959 .

[amashilu]

I don't think he concluded anything ...

I think we can safely say that the written statements below serve as ivanov's "conclusions," at least based on the English language definition of "conclusion."

Title of the Piece:  Mystery of the Fireballs
Author:  Lev Ivanov

"It was clear to me in what sequence did they die - all this from thorough study of the bodies, the clothes, other data. All that remained was the sky and its contents - energy unknown to us, which turned out to be higher than human forces.

"The study of the case now fully convinces, and even then I stuck to the version of the death of student hikers from exposure to an unknown flying object. Based on the evidence gathered, the role of UFOs in this tragedy was quite obvious. Correspondent Bogomolov, whom I gave an interview, his publication claims that the criminal prosecutor Ivanov at that time clearly highlighted: the cause of the deaths was an unidentified object,although he encoded it in the final document with the words "force majeure". To the correspondent’s question, have I changed my view of the causes of death of the hikers over these thirty years, I replied that I only changed my view of the impact technique. If earlier I believed that the ball exploded, releasing completely unknown, but radioactive energy, I believe that the action of the energy from the ball was selective, it was aimed only at three people.

[GlennM]

Poor Lev, born in the '20's or 30's, saw the development of flight from fixed wing aircraft to rockets, experienced the fear of nuclear annihilation and distrustful of things that go bump in the night and shine in the sky. He was a man of the times.

If he wandered into manned UFO territory, his knowledge of the distances involved was wanting.  Alternately, unmanned mechanical UFO's would suggest in this situation that Mother Russia or foreigners screwed up. If Mother Russia, then shut up! If others, then find them and become a hero of the People. Opportunity lost! If an atmospheric phenomona, then it is much ado about nothing, but an easy out, in terms of attribution.

The importance, in my opinion, is that he adhers to the idea that every effect has a cause. All causes may not be known, but can be guessed at. Was the UFO cause valid? Yes, in broad strokes of the brush. Reliable? Not so much.

[Ziljoe]

It's also what he's not saying. He was only at the pass for 4 -6 days into March and then didn't return until he was told the ravine 4 were found in May for a couple of day's. Those around him said he showed no interest in the found bodies. He also claims he was in a storm at the pass and the group were going to ski to the next village. He then goes on to blame the UPI and sports committee, then he blames lights in the sky and fire balls. He makes his wild claims before the case files are released to the public and then changes them.

[Ziljoe]

Where I'm stuck with Ivanov is the release of the DPI mystery in to the wider public domain. It seems to start from his , or the article from 1990. I think this is before the full case files are public. Ivanov says , or is quoted as saying various things that were not in the case files , or rather , that he did not write in the 1959 case files . In his letters from 1991 there are contradictions.

The point being , has he been used by the media.

[sarapuk]

Let's start with a simple question: what is most likely to kill a person in such a remote place?

First: an event obviously related to weather and natural phenomena (avalanche, rockfall, hypothermia, slip, fall, worsening weather conditions, etc.). The main reasons for the death of climbers and hikers in high mountains, snowy and wild areas.

Second: a slightly less likely reason: another person. History and criminal chronicles are full of people killed by other people. A common phenomenon in human society. This also includes suicide and government conspiracy. Of course, rare enough in remote areas

Third: UFOs, jetis, spirits, teleportation, etc. The frequency of proven cases is unknown in the world. Even less known in remote places

The first two are common and have occurred in the past. Without a doubt, the cause of the Dyatlov Pass incident with a 99.99% probability.
The probability of the third option is less than 0.01% (my estimate), and therefore it is completely irrelevant to spend your time on this possibility. It is more of a thrill-seeking and fantasy syndrome.

These three groups, of course, include less likely subgroups (such as a meteor strike, ball lightning, or going crazy and fighting among themselves, etc.).

The percentages are my personal and arbitrary estimate (and divide the division of groups into subgroups) and an arbitrary understanding of common sense.

This was a post with a slighth irony.

You are correct with the first reason, weather is a cause of many accidents in the wild. But was this Dyatov incident an accident. And to say that the 3rd reason is completely irrelevant is incorrect. Any thing could be possible. 

[sarapuk]

Not quite sure, how we arrived at UFOs from names and their origin.

But the damages to Dubininas face is most likely due to her lying in the thawing snow for weeks. There might be damages due to bacteria and microorganisms or maybe even due to small rodents or the like. I'd go as far as accept the chance that the missing eyes might be caused by some pressure wave that was created by an explosion, as someone suggested in another thread.
Why for the love of all gods should an UFO take Dubinina and cut out her eyes and tongue?

Thats the usual cop out. To say that the injuries were due to being in water, or and due to little animals or micro life forms. But they were significant injuries highly unlikely to have been caused by water or little creatures that prey on dead matter.

What indicators are there pointing to her injuries being UNLIKELY to be caused by water or terrestrial life forms?

sarapuk,

In all of the speculation about anything connected to the DPI, the missing eyes and tongue are the easiest to explain. All of the ravine 4 had missing skin around their scalp, eyes , hairline etc. it would be complete madness to expect other wise. Eyeballs shrink rapidly after 24 hours of death plus they probably went through several processes of thawing and freezing in water as the season continued.

The orifices are precisely the areas of where flesh starts to decay. As much is said about the alleged cattle mutilations. It's certainly not a cop out, it's a rational and logical as we can be .

One of my interests is the paranormal, and UFO's etc. And in recent times I have become interested in the phenomenon of cattle and animal mutilations. And most of them are not water related events. In fact many occurring in dry conditions and the bodies were found shortly after their demises. Not enough time for animal predation or decomposition. Also I have come across some human mutilations in some parts of the World. All of them having similar injuries and similar to the injuries on 2 of the Dyatlov group.

I too , have been interested in UFO's and the paranormal for many year's. I am also reasonably familiar with animal mutilation . Unfortunately, after many years of researching and looking into things, ( I used  to buy UFO monthly) not one bit of evidence has been presented.

The ravine 4 were in water with air pockets . They had been lying in that ravine from the beginning of February, until May , that is 3 months of exposure. Think of the 2 Yuri's at the cedar if they had been lying in the open for another 2 months , their bodies would be different to how they were first found .

There has been an enormous amount of time for decomposition of the ravine 4.

Ive got an extensive library of books on the paranormal and UFO phenomenon etc. There are also many good YouTube channels dealing with the subject these days and also on Sky TV we have a lot of stuff. Skinwalker Ranch in the USA crops up a lot. I found an article on a human mutilation in South America with photos and there was a similarity to 2 of the bodies in the Dyatlov incident. The body in question hadnt been exposed to nature for long, certainly not long enough for predation or decomposition. The same occurs with many cattle mutilations. Farmers find the cattle shortly after their death. There have been cases in Britain but farmers apparently have been told to not report it to the public.
I have been told by farmers of strange attacks on horses and deer and cattle.

[sarapuk]

Where I'm stuck with Ivanov is the release of the DPI mystery in to the wider public domain. It seems to start from his , or the article from 1990. I think this is before the full case files are public. Ivanov says , or is quoted as saying various things that were not in the case files , or rather , that he did not write in the 1959 case files . In his letters from 1991 there are contradictions.

The point being , has he been used by the media.

After the fall of the USSR a lot of things started to emerge. Looks like the Dyatlov incident was just one of many things that started to gain an interest.

[Ziljoe]

After the fall of the USSR a lot of things started to emerge

Yep, capitalism and manipulation.

[Senior Maldonado]

I think we can safely say that the written statements below serve as ivanov's "conclusions," at least based on the English language definition of "conclusion."

Title of the Piece:  Mystery of the Fireballs
Author:  Lev Ivanov

"It was clear to me in what sequence did they die - all this from thorough study of the bodies, the clothes, other data. All that remained was the sky and its contents - energy unknown to us, which turned out to be higher than human forces.

"The study of the case now fully convinces, and even then I stuck to the version of the death of student hikers from exposure to an unknown flying object. Based on the evidence gathered, the role of UFOs in this tragedy was quite obvious. Correspondent Bogomolov, whom I gave an interview, his publication claims that the criminal prosecutor Ivanov at that time clearly highlighted: the cause of the deaths was an unidentified object,although he encoded it in the final document with the words "force majeure". To the correspondent’s question, have I changed my view of the causes of death of the hikers over these thirty years, I replied that I only changed my view of the impact technique. If earlier I believed that the ball exploded, releasing completely unknown, but radioactive energy, I believe that the action of the energy from the ball was selective, it was aimed only at three people.

If I may, I would take liberty to comment that not all "conclusions" of Lev Ivanov should be taken seriously. He claims to know the right sequence in which the hikers died, while it's clear that he understood it wrong. In his theory, the "ball" exploded (his early idea) or shot a beam at the three selected hikers (his late idea), when the group just descended and approached the treeline. So he believed that Dubinina, Thibo, and Zolotarev died the first. In reality, those three were the last to die, and the dull explosion did not need to select anybody, it just killed those who kept alive.

From all the above Ivanov's "conclusions" we should accept only one, which is really important - the whole group was killed by unknown flying object.

[Axelrod]

Dyatlov Pass. Conference, May 20, 2023 - Duration: 5 hours. Elena [KOSKINA] reports at the beginning of the last hour:

   
[–] Stas Bogomolov contacted reporters from a newspaper, I don't remember the name, and from them we received information that investigator Lev Nikitich Ivanov was still alive and living in Kostanay. So, from Uralsky Rabochy, I left for Kostanay, where I was met by reporters from a local newspaper.


And that very evening, we met with Lev Nikitich Ivanov. It was an unforgettable meeting. A very intelligent family, his wife and daughters. And he, too, was very happy that someone was interested in the case. Many years had passed, 30 years, and he, too, was retired. Unfortunately, he no longer had an archive. They were renovating their apartment. But he still had some photos from the search and rescue missions, and he gave them to us. He also remembered all the guys by name and patronymic (like Vozrozhdenny).

And I'd like to say something else. It seemed to me that he felt some kind of guilt about not being able to complete the job. He was reassigned to another job. And this guilt lingered until the last years of his life.

Later, he wrote me another letter. Of course, I tried to ask him what happened? What was his opinion? He wasn't ready to answer then. He didn't give me a precise answer, although he said he didn't think it was related to any military testing. He spoke honestly; he expressed a lot of his opinion. We discussed a lot.

He sent me another letter before he passed away, before he died. He thanked me very much for our work, for caring about the fate of these tourists. And in this letter, he wrote that until his last moment he would be convinced that it was the work of extraterrestrial civilizations, aliens. He explained this by the fact that everything he saw there, and everything that happened there, was far removed from our material reality. He said it couldn't have happened.

It couldn't have been caused by the usual factors of our materialistic world, by the military or anyone else. Because it was so tragic, so massive, this intense impact, that he couldn't explain it away as mere military intervention or missile testing. He said "no."

But those were different times, and he couldn't express that theory, because he would have been immediately taken to a mental hospital, a psychiatric hospital. So! And in this letter, he stated that his point of view was that it was aliens, and he would hold to this opinion until the last moment of his life.

[Ziljoe]

I think we can safely say that the written statements below serve as ivanov's "conclusions," at least based on the English language definition of "conclusion."

Title of the Piece:  Mystery of the Fireballs
Author:  Lev Ivanov

"It was clear to me in what sequence did they die - all this from thorough study of the bodies, the clothes, other data. All that remained was the sky and its contents - energy unknown to us, which turned out to be higher than human forces.

"The study of the case now fully convinces, and even then I stuck to the version of the death of student hikers from exposure to an unknown flying object. Based on the evidence gathered, the role of UFOs in this tragedy was quite obvious. Correspondent Bogomolov, whom I gave an interview, his publication claims that the criminal prosecutor Ivanov at that time clearly highlighted: the cause of the deaths was an unidentified object,although he encoded it in the final document with the words "force majeure". To the correspondent’s question, have I changed my view of the causes of death of the hikers over these thirty years, I replied that I only changed my view of the impact technique. If earlier I believed that the ball exploded, releasing completely unknown, but radioactive energy, I believe that the action of the energy from the ball was selective, it was aimed only at three people.

If I may, I would take liberty to comment that not all "conclusions" of Lev Ivanov should be taken seriously. He claims to know the right sequence in which the hikers died, while it's clear that he understood it wrong. In his theory, the "ball" exploded (his early idea) or shot a beam at the three selected hikers (his late idea), when the group just descended and approached the treeline. So he believed that Dubinina, Thibo, and Zolotarev died the first. In reality, those three were the last to die, and the dull explosion did not need to select anybody, it just killed those who kept alive.

From all the above Ivanov's "conclusions" we should accept only one, which is really important - the whole group was killed by unknown flying object.

It is a bit confusing. His claim about this ray gun was from his belief of the alleged burns on the trees .( which was probably natural windburn) and viewed from 1079.

There were no reports of lights in the sky on the night of the incident , there is nothing found on the ground by the searchers or Ivanov that suggests rocket or missile. There's no debris field , no blown off body parts , no blast to the many trees and shrubs on the slope so I'm stuck with ivanovs thinking.

 He was at the pass for 5-6 days then 2 -3 days and did no physical examination of anything. No soil samples, no burnt tree examples , no water samples , no snow samples and no radiation tests from the location . He doesn't even test the tent for radiation, although may be that's where the two big squares went?.

1)No lights in the sky on the night of the incident . The lights on the other nights are rocket stages or activity high in the atmosphere.

2) No evidence of any burns to the tent only the burnt branches and small areas to one of the hikers at the cedar where a fire was found to be made . Some burnt clothing was found in this extinguished fire .

3) Small amount of radiation found on the clothing after being tested in a lab in isolated conditions. No samples taken from any other part of the search site,including the searchers .

Ivanov was either playing a game later in life , to gain money for his family , being used by the media , or was suffering mental health issues.

If it's a rocket or missile , he just had to say but he didn't...

[GlennM]

He was at the pass for 5-6 days then 2 -3 days and did no physical examination of anything. No soil samples, no burnt tree examples , no water samples , no snow samples and no radiation tests from the location . He doesn't even test the tent for radiation, although may be that's where the two big squares went?.

Mind over matter. I don't mind, he don't matter.

[Senior Maldonado]

His claim about this ray gun was from his belief of the alleged burns on the trees .( which was probably natural windburn) and viewed from 1079.

Probably that was the secondary reason. Ivanov's investigation showed that all hikers went downhill together, there were no separate subgroups. And then, at the bottom of the hill, three of them were wounded severely. Initially, he considered injuries due to the "ball" explosion. But he could not explain how the explosion injured 3 people, while the rest who kept very close were not affected at all. So he dismissed an explosion and started to consider targeted attack. Thus he came to the idea of a ray gun and 3 targets that were selected.

There were no reports of lights in the sky on the night of the incident

Even if you restrict yourself with the case files, it's possible to see on the Sheet 167:
"The reason could be some kind of extreme natural phenomenon or the flight of a meteorological rocket that was seen on 1/II in Ivdel".

Then on Sheet 273 we have the following info provided by father of Yuriy Krivonischenko:
"After the funeral of my son on March 9, 1959, I had students over at the apartment, participants in the search for the nine hikers. Among them were those hikers who at the end of January and the beginning of February were on an expedition in the north, a little bit to the south of Mount Otorten. There were apparently at least two such groups, at least the participants of the two groups said that they had seen the light phenomenon that struck them on February 1 north of the location of these groups: the extremely bright glow of some kind of rocket or projectile. The glow was so strong, that some of the hikers that were already inside the tent and getting ready to go to sleep, were alarmed by this glow, went out of the tent and observed this phenomenon. After a while they heard a sound like a strong thunder from far away."

If we go beyond the case files, we will find more:

E.Okishev:
"We met with a worker of one of the prison camps in the North Urals. He described strange flashes of light which he and his wife saw late that evening on their way home from the cinema. The light came from the direction of the supposed accident with the hikers. We also received evidence from other local residents, and all of them spoke about a similar phenomenon, all testimonies were entered on our records of interrogation."

V.Korotaev:
"The testimony of the Mansi witnesses Anyamov and Sambindanov has been removed from the Dyatlov case I was working on. They said they had seen an elongated body flying over the taiga, with flames coming out of its back".

He doesn't even test the tent for radiation, although may be that's where the two big squares went?.

It could be one of the options.

Small amount of radiation found on the clothing after being tested in a lab in isolated conditions. No samples taken from any other part of the search site,including the searchers .

The amount can be called small only in that respect that it was not lethal. For a few samples of clothes it exceeded accepatble level of contamination for nuclear workers' garments. In other words, a nuclear worker would be asked to change his/her clothes, if such level was detected. To continue wearing the garment will be risky for his/her health.

If it's a rocket or missile , he just had to say but he didn't...

Okishev as well.

[sarapuk]

I think we can safely say that the written statements below serve as ivanov's "conclusions," at least based on the English language definition of "conclusion."

Title of the Piece:  Mystery of the Fireballs
Author:  Lev Ivanov

"It was clear to me in what sequence did they die - all this from thorough study of the bodies, the clothes, other data. All that remained was the sky and its contents - energy unknown to us, which turned out to be higher than human forces.

"The study of the case now fully convinces, and even then I stuck to the version of the death of student hikers from exposure to an unknown flying object. Based on the evidence gathered, the role of UFOs in this tragedy was quite obvious. Correspondent Bogomolov, whom I gave an interview, his publication claims that the criminal prosecutor Ivanov at that time clearly highlighted: the cause of the deaths was an unidentified object,although he encoded it in the final document with the words "force majeure". To the correspondent’s question, have I changed my view of the causes of death of the hikers over these thirty years, I replied that I only changed my view of the impact technique. If earlier I believed that the ball exploded, releasing completely unknown, but radioactive energy, I believe that the action of the energy from the ball was selective, it was aimed only at three people.

If I may, I would take liberty to comment that not all "conclusions" of Lev Ivanov should be taken seriously. He claims to know the right sequence in which the hikers died, while it's clear that he understood it wrong. In his theory, the "ball" exploded (his early idea) or shot a beam at the three selected hikers (his late idea), when the group just descended and approached the treeline. So he believed that Dubinina, Thibo, and Zolotarev died the first. In reality, those three were the last to die, and the dull explosion did not need to select anybody, it just killed those who kept alive.

From all the above Ivanov's "conclusions" we should accept only one, which is really important - the whole group was killed by unknown flying object.

Maybe Ivanov was on the right track, so to speak. Many reports of cattle and animal mutilations at the same time as lights in the sky, and also witnesses have seen cattle or animals lifted into the sky towards such objects and then dropped down again at some point in time.

[Senior Maldonado]

Many reports of cattle and animal mutilations at the same time as lights in the sky, and also witnesses have seen cattle or animals lifted into the sky towards such objects and then dropped down again at some point in time.

Do those cattle and animals demonstrate any level of radioactive contamination?

[sarapuk]

I think we can safely say that the written statements below serve as ivanov's "conclusions," at least based on the English language definition of "conclusion."

Title of the Piece:  Mystery of the Fireballs
Author:  Lev Ivanov

"It was clear to me in what sequence did they die - all this from thorough study of the bodies, the clothes, other data. All that remained was the sky and its contents - energy unknown to us, which turned out to be higher than human forces.

"The study of the case now fully convinces, and even then I stuck to the version of the death of student hikers from exposure to an unknown flying object. Based on the evidence gathered, the role of UFOs in this tragedy was quite obvious. Correspondent Bogomolov, whom I gave an interview, his publication claims that the criminal prosecutor Ivanov at that time clearly highlighted: the cause of the deaths was an unidentified object,although he encoded it in the final document with the words "force majeure". To the correspondent’s question, have I changed my view of the causes of death of the hikers over these thirty years, I replied that I only changed my view of the impact technique. If earlier I believed that the ball exploded, releasing completely unknown, but radioactive energy, I believe that the action of the energy from the ball was selective, it was aimed only at three people.

If I may, I would take liberty to comment that not all "conclusions" of Lev Ivanov should be taken seriously. He claims to know the right sequence in which the hikers died, while it's clear that he understood it wrong. In his theory, the "ball" exploded (his early idea) or shot a beam at the three selected hikers (his late idea), when the group just descended and approached the treeline. So he believed that Dubinina, Thibo, and Zolotarev died the first. In reality, those three were the last to die, and the dull explosion did not need to select anybody, it just killed those who kept alive.

From all the above Ivanov's "conclusions" we should accept only one, which is really important - the whole group was killed by unknown flying object.

It is a bit confusing. His claim about this ray gun was from his belief of the alleged burns on the trees .( which was probably natural windburn) and viewed from 1079.

There were no reports of lights in the sky on the night of the incident , there is nothing found on the ground by the searchers or Ivanov that suggests rocket or missile. There's no debris field , no blown off body parts , no blast to the many trees and shrubs on the slope so I'm stuck with ivanovs thinking.

 He was at the pass for 5-6 days then 2 -3 days and did no physical examination of anything. No soil samples, no burnt tree examples , no water samples , no snow samples and no radiation tests from the location . He doesn't even test the tent for radiation, although may be that's where the two big squares went?.

1)No lights in the sky on the night of the incident . The lights on the other nights are rocket stages or activity high in the atmosphere.

2) No evidence of any burns to the tent only the burnt branches and small areas to one of the hikers at the cedar where a fire was found to be made . Some burnt clothing was found in this extinguished fire .

3) Small amount of radiation found on the clothing after being tested in a lab in isolated conditions. No samples taken from any other part of the search site,including the searchers .

Ivanov was either playing a game later in life , to gain money for his family , being used by the media , or was suffering mental health issues.

If it's a rocket or missile , he just had to say but he didn't...

No reports of lights in the sky from what location, though! Obviously, we don't have any witnesses at the site of the incident. The Urals cover a huge area. If there were lights in the sky at the site of the incident, then the Dyatlov Group would have been the only witnesses. The incident appears to have started at the tent site, but didn't end there. So any extra-terrestrial weaponry may have been different at the tent site than at the other sites, such as the Cedar tree site and the Ravine site. Hence unknown force. Or should that be forces? 

[sarapuk]

Many reports of cattle and animal mutilations at the same time as lights in the sky, and also witnesses have seen cattle or animals lifted into the sky towards such objects and then dropped down again at some point in time.

Do those cattle and animals demonstrate any level of radioactive contamination?

Yes, apparently, some radiation has been detected on some of the mutilated bodies. I think I will start a new post with what has developed over the last few years. It is relevant to the Dyatlov Case because of the similarities.

[Ziljoe]

His claim about this ray gun was from his belief of the alleged burns on the trees .( which was probably natural windburn) and viewed from 1079.

Probably that was the secondary reason. Ivanov's investigation showed that all hikers went downhill together, there were no separate subgroups. And then, at the bottom of the hill, three of them were wounded severely. Initially, he considered injuries due to the "ball" explosion. But he could not explain how the explosion injured 3 people, while the rest who kept very close were not affected at all. So he dismissed an explosion and started to consider targeted attack. Thus he came to the idea of a ray gun and 3 targets that were selected.

There were no reports of lights in the sky on the night of the incident

Even if you restrict yourself with the case files, it's possible to see on the Sheet 167:
"The reason could be some kind of extreme natural phenomenon or the flight of a meteorological rocket that was seen on 1/II in Ivdel".

Then on Sheet 273 we have the following info provided by father of Yuriy Krivonischenko:
"After the funeral of my son on March 9, 1959, I had students over at the apartment, participants in the search for the nine hikers. Among them were those hikers who at the end of January and the beginning of February were on an expedition in the north, a little bit to the south of Mount Otorten. There were apparently at least two such groups, at least the participants of the two groups said that they had seen the light phenomenon that struck them on February 1 north of the location of these groups: the extremely bright glow of some kind of rocket or projectile. The glow was so strong, that some of the hikers that were already inside the tent and getting ready to go to sleep, were alarmed by this glow, went out of the tent and observed this phenomenon. After a while they heard a sound like a strong thunder from far away."

If we go beyond the case files, we will find more:

E.Okishev:
"We met with a worker of one of the prison camps in the North Urals. He described strange flashes of light which he and his wife saw late that evening on their way home from the cinema. The light came from the direction of the supposed accident with the hikers. We also received evidence from other local residents, and all of them spoke about a similar phenomenon, all testimonies were entered on our records of interrogation."

V.Korotaev:
"The testimony of the Mansi witnesses Anyamov and Sambindanov has been removed from the Dyatlov case I was working on. They said they had seen an elongated body flying over the taiga, with flames coming out of its back".

He doesn't even test the tent for radiation, although may be that's where the two big squares went?.

It could be one of the options.

Small amount of radiation found on the clothing after being tested in a lab in isolated conditions. No samples taken from any other part of the search site,including the searchers .

The amount can be called small only in that respect that it was not lethal. For a few samples of clothes it exceeded accepatble level of contamination for nuclear workers' garments. In other words, a nuclear worker would be asked to change his/her clothes, if such level was detected. To continue wearing the garment will be risky for his/her health.

If it's a rocket or missile , he just had to say but he didn't...

Okishev as well.

The dates of the 1st of February  by Yuriy Krivonischenko father had missed me. That is of interest to me. He has the least reason to manipulate a story and then a story from the students. When he mentions the seventh, this may be an error on his part or the person taking the notes as we know for definite that there was something in the sky on the 17th.

Interestingly, the date of the 17th February is in the case files of observations with quite detailed accounts but there are none for the 1st of February.

I think there's at least 4 statements for the rocket on the 17th of February and I'm sure it is also  stated in Karelin's own report of their group hike so that wasn't a secret to the public.

I've been searching for years to find dates of launches of rockets that match the dates but I know the Soviets didn't keep dates of failed launches.

I believe they were doing tests in the atmosphere of some sort of nuclear experiments but again I can't find dates or locations.

My problem with Ivanov and Okishev is that they don't say  it was a rocket or missile, they give no proof . They imply they think it was a cover up and maybe a rocket and that's it. If it was a rocket that fell, I don't see the big deal of covering it up to the families in the aid of protecting military secrets, there's no need for Ivanov to get emotionally connected or have guilt. It's a random accident and if so , I'm sure someone would have come out and said so.

There's a website of soviet accidents that are filed under secret and KGB etc, the dyatlov pass is nothing in comparison to the many mass deaths and accidents caused by military, infrastructure, murders, drinking, messing about in airplanes , nuclear waste , U2 spy plane , train crashes, numerous tourist deaths etc and on it goes. The point being , there's nothing that could have happened in the dyatlov case that could possibly outway far worse secrets that have already been released to the public.

[Senior Maldonado]

The dates of the 1st of February  by Yuriy Krivonischenko father had missed me. That is of interest to me. He has the least reason to manipulate a story and then a story from the students. When he mentions the seventh, this may be an error on his part or the person taking the notes as we know for definite that there was something in the sky on the 17th.

Interestingly, the date of the 17th February is in the case files of observations with quite detailed accounts but there are none for the 1st of February.

I think there's at least 4 statements for the rocket on the 17th of February and I'm sure it is also  stated in Karelin's own report of their group hike so that wasn't a secret to the public.

That's true, you will find very little information related to February 1st in the case files. This is very strange, since the investigation's aim is to reveal what happened with the hikers on February 1st, 1959. We could expect a lot of questions asked to witnesses: Do you know anything about incident with the hikers on February 1st? But we do not see such questions. Natural doubt arises - do these case files really reflect genuine investigation process of DPI?

I fully agree that Yuriy's father talks about "lights in the sky" on February 1st and 17th. Then those two hikers' groups he mentioned were Anatoly Shumkov's group and Vladislav Karelin's groups. As Karelin saw "light in the sky" early in the morning on Feb 17th, the sound effect should have been heared by Shumkov's group late in the evening on Feb 1st. And this fits to the logic of DPI. At about 7pm Shumkov and Vladimirov saw a rocket flying over Urals from the top of Chistop, then their group heard sound of explosion at about 11pm, when they got ready for sleep.

[Ziljoe]

I fully agree that Yuriy's father talks about "lights in the sky" on February 1st and 17th. Then those two hikers' groups he mentioned were Anatoly Shumkov's group and Vladislav Karelin's groups. As Karelin saw "light in the sky" early in the morning on Feb 17th, the sound effect should have been heared by Shumkov's group late in the evening on Feb 1st. And this fits to the logic of DPI. At about 7pm Shumkov and Vladimirov saw a rocket flying over Urals from the top of Chistop, then their group heard sound of explosion at about 11pm, when they got ready for sleep.

I did read somewhere and it might have been teddy's book, that there was geological work going on.

I can't for the life of me remember the details but if my memory serves me correctly, the searchers requested that these explosions or geological works stop while the search went on. I'll need to check teddy's book as there are valuable documents and statements in it.

[Senior Maldonado]

I did read somewhere and it might have been teddy's book, that there was geological work going on.

I can't for the life of me remember the details but if my memory serves me correctly, the searchers requested that these explosions or geological works stop while the search went on. I'll need to check teddy's book as there are valuable documents and statements in it.

I doubt very much it is about geologists and their works. Not a single geologist was interrogated. Geological works are not mentioned in the case files.

The only relevant episode was described by former soldier Syunikaev here: https://dyatlovpass.com/syunikaev-2009?rbid=18461

"Syunikaev: Well, the day... the day, probably, the second day had passed, something like that... well, the radio operator was with us... I heard explosions, pops. I said: look, explosions, they are shooting at us again. What do you think was in our heads? I immediately went up to the radio operator and said: look, tell them that we, the search group, won't proceed with the search because we are afraid for our lives."