Nothing goes there

[GlennM]

I went there...on Google Earth. What I saw were well defined dirt roads for vehicles. I saw a number of vehicles at what I assumed is Boot Rock. What I did not see were foot trails, nor animal trails. When the Mansi said," nothing goes there", I can believe it. The closest thing to a trail are streams and tributaries of streams.

So, 60 years ago there were probably far less etched up roads. Certainly in winter, nothing visible. Boot rock was just a rock, much like any other. The ground is bare of vegetation and carpeted with what looks like loose shale. It would be a place to make a quicker crossing to Otorten along the ridge route.

Looking at the forest below, I am again struck by the absence of trails. The woods are thick, probable never lumbered out. From the cedar to Otorten, as the crow flies, there is a lot of woodsy up and down terrain, again with no trails. It would be a poor, poor place to try to hike through.

I can appreciate Dyatlov Pass getting a ceremonial name, even it was never used. It would just be too much trouble to bushwhack through all those trees when hikers could go unimpeded by going higher and taking the ridge route.

1079 and Otorten are a long way from anywhere. The idea of Soviets wasting time an energy trying to learn from rocket tests by going there to analyze debris is not what I would expect from an organized military.

The DP9 chose a rare place to do a long hike and would certainly deserve the Grade 3 rating. Too bad about the weather.

[Senior Maldonado]

1079 and Otorten are a long way from anywhere. The idea of Soviets wasting time an energy trying to learn from rocket tests by going there to analyze debris is not what I would expect from an organized military.

Areas that "are a long way from anywhere" have a unique advantage. Rockets trajectories can be set up over those areas without a risk to hit anybody (or anything) in case of launch failure. A rocket started from Tyuratam typicaly flies over about 3/4 of the RSFSR's territory. It is wise to select low populated areas for its trajectory.

As beginning of February 1959 was time of XXI CPSU congress, an attempt to provide CPSU with a gift - successful breakthrogh orbital or suborbital launch - looks plausible. We can talk about bold and hasty production launch rather than about a test.

[GlennM]

Teddy's expeditionary companions may validate your hujch soon. I am doubtful. But interested.

[Senior Maldonado]

I am doubtful as well. As the search team was allowed at the slope in 1959, there was no concern they would find anything. Which means cleanup excercise had been done already. Also, I see no point to look for rocket's debris on Otorten. The hikers would not have left the tent, if the rocket had fallen on Otorten -- it's too far away. The good spot to search is at the other side of the ridge -- go up from the tent's site and go a little bit down on the other side.

[GlennM]

 An investigation of the site where" lights in the sky come down to earth"should leave evidence in the form of trails, cuts, imprints and missed debris. These though may be entirely lost to time.Naturally, this is not what modern day researchers are hoping for. I honestly do not believe it happened at all. You are right to suggest a search in other places than the well travelled gravel from tent to cedar.  I'd search Google Earth for some evidence before I stomped the ground. My intuition tells me that artifacts lost to time still exist in written form in an archive.

[sarapuk]

The DP9 chose a rare place to do a long hike and would certainly deserve the Grade 3 rating. Too bad about the weather.

Going there on Google Earth or maps is not the same as going there for real. But I often travel to remote places on the internet as I'm sure many of us do. The best part is when you can get down on the ground and travel along the roads or tracks in many cases. Alas, not in the Dyatlov Pass area, though. Maybe one day, though. Until then, it's the hard slog or watching what others post on the internet.

[sarapuk]

I am doubtful as well. As the search team was allowed at the slope in 1959, there was no concern they would find anything. Which means cleanup excercise had been done already. Also, I see no point to look for rocket's debris on Otorten. The hikers would not have left the tent, if the rocket had fallen on Otorten -- it's too far away. The good spot to search is at the other side of the ridge -- go up from the tent's site and go a little bit down on the other side.

Clean up exercise. And what exactly was supposed to have been cleaned? The tent was not cleaned, or all the stuff found inside it. The bodies were not, or the clothing was not cleaned either.

[sarapuk]

An investigation of the site where" lights in the sky come down to earth"should leave evidence in the form of trails, cuts, imprints and missed debris. These though may be entirely lost to time.Naturally, this is not what modern day researchers are hoping for. I honestly do not believe it happened at all. You are right to suggest a search in other places than the well travelled gravel from tent to cedar.  I'd search Google Earth for some evidence before I stomped the ground. My intuition tells me that artifacts lost to time still exist in written form in an archive.

Wasn't there a mention of a circular patch not far from the tent site !?

[GlennM]

Sarapuk  read me in on the circular patch, OK?

[Senior Maldonado]

Clean up exercise. And what exactly was supposed to have been cleaned? The tent was not cleaned, or all the stuff found inside it. The bodies were not, or the clothing was not cleaned either.

The death of the hikers is in focus for us, but those who launched the rocket did not care much about a few civilians who got affected by the rocket crash. That was just an unfortunate overhead, while the focus was on the rocket and its landing spot.

Nobody intended to clean up the tent's site or to look for possible casualties. The military search team executed the order of the Minister of Defense of the USSR dated August 2, 1957 (currently declassified) titled "Strengthening the Security Regime and Protection of Secrecy in Missile Facilities and Military Units". In this order there is part 2, paragraph 5, which states the following: "During tests and training exercises, immediate measures should be taken to identify the locations of missile and rocket weapon debris, collect it in a timely manner, and ensure its safekeeping and transportation to designated storage areas."

[Ziljoe]

The military search team executed the order of the Minister of Defense of the USSR dated August 2, 1957 (currently declassified) titled "Strengthening the Security Regime and Protection of Secrecy in Missile Facilities and Military Units". In this order there is part 2, paragraph 5, which states the following: "During tests and training exercises, immediate measures should be taken to identify the locations of missile and rocket weapon debris, collect it in a timely manner, and ensure its safekeeping and transportation to designated storage areas."

Is this a real document or a bad translation?

[Senior Maldonado]

Is this a real document or a bad translation?

You are always welcome to do your own translation.    Here is the link:
https://rvsn.info/library/docs/doc_1_0172.html?ysclid=mpzhgmx3v4633266899

[GlennM]

Sniping aside, I would think that rocket debris, soldiers and everything soldiers bring would be more than obvious to rescue/ recovery teams for the DP9. Further, if rocket detonation and its detritus were to affect the DP9, It would be immediately noticeable. Then again, because the military actually was involved in the rescue/recovery, I am not aware of anything in the case files where the military is telling anyone that any location was out of bounds.

Yes, men in power have done atrocities in the name of the greater good. Yes, human collateral damage is a real thing. It in both cases, the evidence and its links are easily figured out. Not in this case, not in this way.

Conspiracy theories sell magazines, books and movie scripts. Nature is far more mundane.

[Senior Maldonado]

Conspiracy theories sell magazines, books and movie scripts. Nature is far more mundane.

As soon as Dr. Vozrozhdenniy started talking about blast shock wave, the Nature moved to the background, and Ivanov was obliged to continue investigation to persue that new development. However, he immediately finished the case. Coincidence? Do not think so!

[GlennM]

Puts me in mind of geologists doing seismic testing. This is one of the biggest holes ( no oun intended) in the whole DPI. Where is any testimony from geologists who were supposedly prospecting for rare earths in the area?
You will recall the idea that blasting precipitated the fall of a pine which crushed the tent in the forest. Later on those fearful geologists moved the tent to 1079.

To this day  there are researchers who believe this and look for supporting evidence in artifacts. This is because testimony is wholly lacking.