Bartolomey

[GlennM]

Pyotr Bartolomey took part in the search Mar 13-23, 1959.
"I spent two weeks huddled down in a tent with Ivanov. He was asking me about everything and everybody.
After the first five bodies were found, he was summoned and we parted with the promise that we will continue the conversation. When Ivanov arrived back on the pass (as well as in Ivdel and Sverdlovsk) he was withdrawn, and didn't want to talk even to Maslennikov (the head of the search operation). Ivanov said to me – I can't talk to you, I am not allowed. It was obvious to me that he was told what happened, sworn to silence and he was afraid.

This reads like Ivanov was told something. I think what he was told is something like if you want to keep climbing higher as a civil servant, you should stick to the facts and not make up stories.

[SURI]

It was obvious to him that they were killed.

[GlennM]

If the testimony is not made up, and I have no reason to believe so, then Ivanov was advised to stop speculating. Why?

I am thinking that his speculation could filter all the way back to the home of the hikers by way of returning college students. Further, if we use the party game of telephone as an example, each retelling of the story gets filtered by each reporter's perception. It is conceivable that an unsubstantiated rumor of lights in the sky could morph into a botched Soviet military test.

It could also be that Ivanov was reminded of his role in the investigation and how his handling of it might play out in terms of career advancement. So, casual speculations with companions could have more gravitas because Ivanov was the one to say it. It matters little if it is factual or not, it is about who said what.

Then, there is the matter that Ivanov found out something of the truth. That truth would somehow involve the deep pockets of the Soviet government,meaning someone is going to lawyer up and go to court and sue the Bear. That, in turn will rile the populace and the lid could blow off the whole thing.  To give any credence to this idea, one would speculate that the debris were picked up and carted away before the first rescue and perhaps without the knowledge of the hikers being in the area. After all, the event need not happen in their midst, only in the vicinity.

[Ziljoe]

For me it just adds to a frustrating loop.

I'm in a lazy mood so I'll have to work from memory . Not one iota of all these post statements add up.

Ivanov seemed to be rarely at the pass . I tried trying to work out when he was there and for how long. Pytor says he , he himself was there from the 13-23 of March. That's 10 days by my math's and not two weeks.

Ivanov gives no details of him being at the pass for any length of time. He touches on things about a storm and being in the artic(?) in his 1990 article. But no descriptive writings about being in the tent , what he looked at , what he found etc.

We also have the statements about the light in the sky witnessed by other groups and they are not secret or withheld from the other hiking reports

I can't work out from Pyotr what two weeks he had with Ivanov and which tent he means? What date he was summoned and which day he came back?

Other sources imply that ivanov wasn't at the  pass more than maybe 3 days ?.

[Senior Maldonado]

I can't work out from Pyotr what two weeks he had with Ivanov and which tent he means? What date he was summoned and which day he came back?

Other sources imply that ivanov wasn't at the  pass more than maybe 3 days ?.

Everything indicates that Ivanov was on the Pass 3 times:
> March 1-3
> March 13-15 (that was together with Pyotr)
> May 6

On March 15th Ivanov was urgently called back from the Pass. A helicopter arrived to get him back to Ivdel, and next day he was already in Sverdlovsk. That was the breakpoint, when medical lab in Sverdlovsk had been ready with chemical analysis of tissue fragments of the first 5 hikers. At this point it became clear that the hikers not just fled in terror from the rocket, but evaporations from the rocket's tanks did affect them. Direct linkage of their deaths with the rocket crash was established. Ivanov was asked to switch his investigation in full secret mode.

[GlennM]

I would think that in over 60 years of free, unrestructed hiking and hunting in this part of the Urals that someone would have found evidence. Nope.

I prefer weather. Much simpler

[Ziljoe]

I can't work out from Pyotr what two weeks he had with Ivanov and which tent he means? What date he was summoned and which day he came back?

Other sources imply that ivanov wasn't at the  pass more than maybe 3 days ?.

Everything indicates that Ivanov was on the Pass 3 times:
> March 1-3
> March 13-15 (that was together with Pyotr)
> May 6

On March 15th Ivanov was urgently called back from the Pass. A helicopter arrived to get him back to Ivdel, and next day he was already in Sverdlovsk. That was the breakpoint, when medical lab in Sverdlovsk had been ready with chemical analysis of tissue fragments of the first 5 hikers. At this point it became clear that the hikers not just fled in terror from the rocket, but evaporations from the rocket's tanks did affect them. Direct linkage of their deaths with the rocket crash was established. Ivanov was asked to switch his investigation in full secret mode.

I've tried to find sources but I can't confirm anything. 2 days is not two weeks . If Ivanov left on the 15th of march then he would have had to come back before the 23rd of March to say to Pyotr that he couldn't talk to him. That would be 4 visits.

But who of us would expect a police officer , all the way up to prosecutor, to inform you of any investigative information?. There's an investigation going on , Mansi are being questioned at the same time as helping the search effort. If there's any truth in pyotr's claim , I would suspect it's a mundane reason.

It is complete speculation that he was sworn to silence and was afraid. This is more a post retrospective narrative with inbuilt ambiguity. Ivanov wouldn't have been able to say anything, even if it was an avalanche, drugs or rocket.

Ivanov would have been in secret mode from the start , not halfway through and there's no evidence of crashed rockets or explosions unfortunately.

I would expect students to be the first people removed from the search if a rocket had landed nearby.

[Senior Maldonado]

I've tried to find sources but I can't confirm anything. 2 days is not two weeks . If Ivanov left on the 15th of march then he would have had to come back before the 23rd of March to say to Pyotr that he couldn't talk to him. That would be 4 visits.

Yes, Ivanov left the Pass on March 15th, and he took the same helicopter flight to Ivdel as Kikoin, who had completed his radioactivity level measurements by the time. On March 16th Ivanov was in Sverdlovsk and issued an order to investigate the hikers' tent in the criminal lab.

The words "Ivanov said to me – I can't talk to you, I am not allowed." are GlennM's invention. Pyotr did not say that. At least, I have never heard Pyotr saying that in his numerous interviews. Ivanov just stopped talking to any member of the search party, including Bartolomey and Maslennikov.

There is no information that Ivanov returned to the Pass / Ivdel in the 2nd half of March.