Obscure description of the damaged ski pole - can anyone clarify?

[Nigel Evans]

Why should the quantity be an even number  !  ?

Because of it was an odd number it would strongly suggest that a ski pole was sacrificed by the group? An even number otherwise.

[WAB]

Is it recorded that they only found 17 poles complete

Instead of you where it has been written could show? I attentively read all papers in original language and did not see that so have been written.

Hi, i'm asking this as a question, perhaps it translated badly  = "Is it recorded that they only found 17 complete poles?".

I think that to me was not displayed the question sign, and it is all that it was. Therefore I have asked my question. Probably, I have not paid attention to it, and the reason here not in translation from English.

[WAB]

Why should the quantity be an even number  !  ?

Because of it was an odd number it would strongly suggest that a ski pole was sacrificed by the group? An even number otherwise.

But it cannot be judged on photos which we has to see. Because they are made already after participants of search have already spent manipulations with ski sticks.
In consequence papers it is not written down anywhere that they considered ski sticks and how many it was available when have found tent.

[Nigel Evans]

Is it recorded that they only found 17 poles complete

Instead of you where it has been written could show? I attentively read all papers in original language and did not see that so have been written.

Hi, i'm asking this as a question, perhaps it translated badly  = "Is it recorded that they only found 17 complete poles?".

I think that to me was not displayed the question sign, and it is all that it was. Therefore I have asked my question. Probably, I have not paid attention to it, and the reason here not in translation from English.

Understood.

[Nigel Evans]

Why should the quantity be an even number  !  ?

Because of it was an odd number it would strongly suggest that a ski pole was sacrificed by the group? An even number otherwise.

But it cannot be judged on photos which we has to see. Because they are made already after participants of search have already spent manipulations with ski sticks.
In consequence papers it is not written down anywhere that they considered ski sticks and how many it was available when have found tent.

Agreed.

[ikemitsu]

Thank you WAB. The backpack support stick sounds valid to me. It could explain "incisions" too. Maybe Zolotaryov indeed had this supportive stick. Also, I didn't know that you can't really cut bamboo. I thought all tourists had bamboo sticks, so one having wooden ones is new to me.

[Nigel Evans]

https://www.wikihow.com/Cut-Bamboo

[ikemitsu]

So you need to cut bamboo diagonally not to split it? WAB's input is that you can't fix a bamboo ski pole on the go. If an avalanche fell on the tent or a lightning stroke the pole, the ski pole (if it was made from bamboo) wouldn't be neatly cut, so to speak, but splintered. From the witness accounts it appears that inside the tent there was a stick of some sort, assumed damaged, and assumed, maybe incorrectely, to be a ski pole. I don't know about broken poles outside the tent.

[Jacques-Emile]

It seems a bit insulting to think nine hikers were too dumb to find a stick in the Siberian forest.

[ikemitsu]

It seems a bit insulting to think nine hikers were too dumb to find a stick in the Siberian forest.

Sorry but who is suggesting this? Starting this thread, I only wanted to find some clarification to Lebedev's account about some damaged stick inside the tent. The Google Translated sentence is pretty unfathomable.

[Loose}{Cannon]

"In the tent we found a ski stick from which the upper end was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made

Show me where it says 'inside'................

Also, take note it SPECIFICALLY states 'ski stick'.....  any and all references to some other 'stick' alluded to within this thread is misleading and unrelated. 

'In' the outside corner of any tent there are loops for anchoring to the ground.  If I handed you said anchoring device and told you to put it 'in' the tent.....  would you toss it 'inside' the tent and call it a day?   

Think people.   In the tent as in.....  'In' the corner of the tent.  These facts are not debatable given several testimonies and photographic evidence.   

[Nigel Evans]

The official report from the criminal investigation states: The belongings inside were situated as follows: By the entrance was a furnace; baskets; water flasks, one of which was filled with alcohol; a saw; and an axe.Deeper inside were the cameras. Further back was a bag with maps and documents, Dyatlov’s camera, a can containing money, Kolmogorova’s diary and windbreakers belonging to Dyatlov and Kolevatov. In the corner was a bag of rusks and another bag containing breakfast cereal. Next to them was a pair of boots. The other six pairs of boots were at the opposite side of the tent. In the middle of the tent were three pairs of valenki and one single one. Next to the rusks there was a log taken from the place of the previous camp. Above all, there was a ski pole, scored at several places.

[ikemitsu]

"In the tent we found a ski stick from which the upper end was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made

Show me where it says 'inside'................

Also, take note it SPECIFICALLY states 'ski stick'.....  any and all references to some other 'stick' alluded to within this thread is misleading and unrelated. 

'In' the outside corner of any tent there are loops for anchoring to the ground.  If I handed you said anchoring device and told you to put it 'in' the tent.....  would you toss it 'inside' the tent and call it a day?

Think people.   In the tent as in.....  'In' the corner of the tent.  These facts are not debatable given several testimonies and photographic evidence.

The thing is, I depend totally on the English translations. Plus I'm not a native English speaker and Google Translations are probably more challenging to me. To me "in the tent" means "inside the tent". But yeah, your explanation is noted. I've just never set up a tent in English, heh. The broken ski pole is serious evidence if it really was there, inside or outside the tent, for sure. I just don't know if I can include it. I've read Svetlana Oss's book that Nigel Evans quoted, so it has had an influence among others. I have it on page 48, different edition I guess, a paperback.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 50-51). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.

^^^^^^^^^^.        Relies on an agenda driven book rather then the original testimonies from the original case files. 


 

[Nigel Evans]

Oss, Svetlana. Don't Go There: Post Mortem (pp. 50-51). LiberWriter.com. Kindle Edition.

^^^^^^^^^^.        Relies on an agenda driven book rather then the original testimonies from the original case files. 


 

She says - "The official report from the criminal investigation states", and she is Russian so presumably working from the Russian texts? 

[Loose}{Cannon]

Definition of 'scored' as used in this context.

A notch or incision, especially one that is made to keep a tally.

Besides, its a complete fabrication of false facts that does not exist in the case files. Burn the book and start reading the case files.     

[WAB]

Thank you WAB. The backpack support stick sounds valid to me. It could explain "incisions" too. Maybe Zolotaryov indeed had this supportive stick.

It is naturally. It is possible to think out very wound situations искуственно, but it is possible to explain all both more simple and natural circumstances.
Here everyone chooses that he wishes. Or explain that that was actually, or write the detective novel.

Also, I didn't know that you can't really cut bamboo.

I can cut  bamboo, as any other person. I said only that it to make more difficultly, than a usual tree which grows in that place. And that they did not cut a bamboo stick, as well as what that another too. From those sticks which at them were.
That participants of search have found, they have accepted for a piece of a ski stick by mistake. Such errors under similar circumstances happens much. It is necessary to understand, what condition of psychology at young men in such circumstances was.

I thought all tourists had bamboo sticks, so one having wooden ones is new to me.

And there was in Dyatlov group. All from them had bamboo sticks. But at Dubinin was one steam which has been made of a tree. Therefore Brusnitsin and Lebedev have thought that it cut off from it. They did not know how many sticks from a tree was in group. Anywhere there is no mention that met the broken or cut off stick, except these mentions.

[WAB]

https://www.wikihow.com/Cut-Bamboo

thanks 

[WAB]

"In the tent we found a ski stick from which the upper end was cut along the neat end cut and another incision was made

Show me where it says 'inside'................

It is very easy for making:
Vladimir Lebedev, Sheet from case # 316.
"В палатке было несколько пар валенок, кроме одного пары ботинок, почти вся верхняя одежда. В палатке мы обнаружили лыжную палку от которой был отрезан верхний конец по аккуратному концевому надрезу и еще один надрез был сделан. Это говорит о том, что видимо кто-то остался в палатке значительно позже других, может быть на сутки. Потому что человек от нечего делать не будет резать палку, которая еще может пригодиться."(с)

It is the text in Russian.

-----------------------------------
In tent there were some pairs of valenoks*, except one steams of the boots, almost all outer clothing. In tent we have found out a ski stick from which the top end on an accurate trailer cut has been cut off and one more cut has been made. It means that probably someone remained in tent considerably after others, can be for days. Because the person from nothing to do will not cut a stick, which else can be useful.
===============

It is my text translation to . If here is that that not clearly, please write what exactly is, I will try to pick up other words while translating.

And it is fragment of scanning of this sheet where Lebedev wrote by his hand
 


The word "in tent" is underlined specially.

*)valenok - https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BA it is footwear made of felt.

**************************************

Besides, the same record is in a paper Vadim Brusnitsin, Sheet # 368

----------------------------------
"Поверх всех вещей лежала разрезанная на несколько кусков лыжная палка, на ней, повидимому был укреплен северный конек палатки. Решиться на порчу палки, учитывая то, что в группе не было запасных можно только при особых обстоятельствах."(c)
=======================
It is the text in Russian.

Over all things the ski stick cut on some pieces, on it lay, visible northern fad of tent has been strengthened. To dare at stick damage, considering that in group spare was not possible only at exceptional circumstances.

It is my text translation to Engish. If here is that that not clearly, please write what exactly is, I will try to pick up other words while translating.
 


And it is fragment of scanning of this sheet where Brusnitsin wrote his hand


The word "On top all things" is is underlined specially.

Semantics of Russian is that that some words do not speak, as it is clear on sense. Therefore expressions: "in tent" (c) "On top all things" (c) mean that it is a question that all occurs in tent exclusively. Specially about it do not speak, because it and so it is clear for any person which confidently speaks Russian.

Also, take note it SPECIFICALLY states 'ski stick'.....  any and all references to some other 'stick' alluded to within this thread is misleading and unrelated.

It is his subjective perception. It is as they are similar as 2 boots.
 

'In' the outside corner of any tent there are loops for anchoring to the ground.  If I handed you said anchoring device and told you to put it 'in' the tent.....  would you toss it 'inside' the tent and call it a day?

Here it is not necessary to tell strangers of words. That told that Lebedev and Brusnitsin I (wrote) has resulted both the text, and their own manual the signature.
 

Think people.   In the tent as in.....  'In' the corner of the tent.  These facts are not debatable given several testimonies and photographic evidence.

It is not disputable. Both of them said that is in tent, instead of outside.
If there is what that misunderstandings in transfer I read and explain (and I show on a photo!) as it is in a source language.
Any photographic proofs of that it was from the outside is not present. If I am not right, you could not result them as the proofs?
That you resulted earlier, it is normal ski sticks which are deepened during snow and are inclined and only. But there is no which would be broken or cut off.

[WAB]

I can lay to write a bit later/
My apologies

[WAB]

I have a little more time now.

........................
The thing is, I depend totally on the English translations. Plus I'm not a native English speaker and Google Translations are probably more challenging to me. To me "in the tent" means "inside the tent". But yeah, your explanation is noted. I've just never set up a tent in English, heh.

And it is correct that “did not adjust tent in English” (c). Always it is necessary to do it “in the our language”. I always “adjusted tent in Russian”, therefore I can more correct judge that was in Dyatlov group. 

The broken ski pole is serious evidence if it really was there, inside or outside the tent, for sure. I just don't know if I can include it. I've read Svetlana Oss's book that Nigel Evans quoted, so it has had an influence among others. I have it on page 48, different edition I guess, a paperback.

I can tell precisely that you have correctly understood about that the cut off ski stick was inside. I have written it earlier bit.

[WAB]

She says - "The official report from the criminal investigation states", and she is Russian so presumably working from the Russian texts? 

In some paragraphs she writes correctly. But in where it does accents and shes resume, it in greater parts is not right. It is necessary to understand that it the journalist and takes a material from forums and publications. Approximately 20 % of correct thoughts and 80 % of free thoughts which are not available in this business there contain.
Here an example from she`s book:
 


It is how it represents this position.
And here that is actually in the same place:
 


There there is no cave, it has appeared only in Svetlana Oss's thoughts (its full surname is Osadchuk. She works in newspaper St. Petersburg Times). To lean in thoughts only against its book it from the big error. Unfortunately in English it is very little written on this theme by people who well know all details. Usually they work or the big experts in the industry, or teachers at universities, or practically do not know English in the necessary degree. About same of in Russian. Usually writers undertake it which describe events "moderately the perversity". So at us speak about not a diligent statement of the thoughts.
But the world is not compressed to level of distribution of English language. On this event there are many different articles in Russian. It is from primary basis for studying

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

PS. Mr. Nigel!  I remember that I have a debt to write about FB, but I cannot write often and much now. I have not time to make much.

[WAB]

Definition of 'scored' as used in this context.

A notch or incision, especially one that is made to keep a tally.

Besides, its a complete fabrication of false facts that does not exist in the case files. Burn the book and start reading the case files.     

I have resulted all as it is in criminal case, and has resulted even scans original papers.
I hope that you will not deny it?

[Nigel Evans]

I have resulted all as it is in criminal case, and has resulted even scans original papers.
I hope that you will not deny it?

>>> Loose}{Cannon - are you going to deny it? 
 

[Loose}{Cannon]

The word "in tent" is underlined specially

.

'Inside' is nowhere to be seen.     

Over all things the ski stick cut on some pieces, on it lay, visible northern fad of tent has been strengthened. To dare at stick damage, considering that in group spare was not possible only at exceptional circumstances.

 

[Loose}{Cannon]

I have resulted all as it is in criminal case, and has resulted even scans original papers.
I hope that you will not deny it?

>>> Loose}{Cannon - are you going to deny it? 
 

What exactly is there to 'deny'?

 

[Nigel Evans]

What exactly is there to 'deny'?

 

Your red circles.

[Loose}{Cannon]

All from them had bamboo sticks.

Incorrect. 

[Jacques-Emile]

The frustration I have with discussion on this site and in many other places, is that people enjoy speculation more than they enjoy carrying the burden of logic and rational thinking.  Here are a few things we should just repeat.
A "ski pole" ("ski stick" in French) is a special tool to improve skiing by engaging the capacity of the upper limbs in the effort.  When skis were invented, it became obvious to use sticks of a certain length to assist in propulsion.  Now, the tools are highly refined and made out of special woods for a certain purpose.
It would be reasonable to destroy a ski stick only for the most powerful of needs.  It would be foolish to cut up a ski stick to create a tent pole.  It is much easier to craft tent poles (tent sticks) from the plethora of dry wood in the forest, than it is to make a replacement ski stick.  That is my point.
We become foolish if we suggest uses that could be very ordinary, to destroy a ski stick.  Only the greatest of needs would inspire destruction of the ski stick.  What might these be?

[Loose}{Cannon]

How about some of the worst winter conditions imaginable, in deep snow, and no access to other sticks.





Anyone who decides to deny this photo evidence and official testimony of an inverted vintage partial ski-pole being used as an anchoring device for the corner of the tent needs to find a different hobby.