December 05, 2019, 10:36:58 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Reopening the Dyatlov Pass Case  (Read 3825 times)

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May 06, 2019, 08:01:30 AM
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tekumze

Guest
Does anybody knows on this forum, what are conclusions of the official investigation of reopening case? If there is any official conclusion at all until now.
Thank you for any answer.
Best regards to all of you.

May 06, 2019, 08:12:58 AM
Reply #1
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Teddy

Administrator
The case hasn't been reopened. This is preliminary investigation and the Prosecutors office is not obliged to publicly report of its actions, findings and conclusions.

May 06, 2019, 08:32:16 AM
Reply #2

Clacon

Guest
The expedition to the site for the preliminary investigation is over, right?

Do you think they will release anything?

May 06, 2019, 08:47:28 AM
Reply #3
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Nigel Evans


The expedition to the site for the preliminary investigation is over, right?

Do you think they will release anything?


The answer to the DPI lies within archives not with expeditions....

May 06, 2019, 09:01:44 AM
Reply #4

Clacon

Guest
This is a good point Nigel - however, some archival evidence has been lost (tent), some may be inaccurate and some may not even have been released yet.

May 06, 2019, 09:38:18 AM
Reply #5
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Nigel Evans


This is a good point Nigel - however, some archival evidence has been lost (tent), some may be inaccurate and some may not even have been released yet.


It's my opinion that the case was understood by the Soviet hierarchy in 1959. This was also Okishev's view. Keith McCloskey has a good analysis of this in Journey to dyatlov pass. I'll post it when I'm at my laptop.

May 06, 2019, 10:07:53 AM
Reply #6

tekumze

Guest
How come suddenly:The case hasn't been reopened?
On Feb. 1, Russia’s Prosecutor General’s Office announced that it was reopening an investigation into a cold case that has stumped Russians for more than 60 years.
Firstly, it is being moved from the regional branch of the Investigative Committee to the federal branch.
Andrei Kuryakov, an official at the Sverdlovsk region prosecutor’s office, said at a press conference on Feb. 4 that the state prosecutor’s office has requested all documents relating directly or indirectly to the case.
If the prosecution is not obliged to publicly report  then I do not see any sense in the preliminary investigation.
And everything is exactly at the same point as it was 60 years ago. Looks like I missed something...



May 06, 2019, 11:46:15 AM
Reply #7
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Nigel Evans


Interview with Okishev - http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=290.msg2011#msg2011
Keith McCloskey's opinion :-
The interview with Evgeny Okishev shows that when the last four bodies were finally found, it was apparent that something very unusual had happened. However, the question must be asked – did they know anything before the arrival of Deputy Prosecutor General Urakov from Moscow? He (Okishev) mentions the fact that Klinov was present at the autopsies of the first five bodies in Ivdel and points out that this was highly unusual, particularly as Ivdel is 400 miles away from Sverdlovsk (644km). Why would Klinov have felt the need to go up there while the autopsies were being carried out, unless he had previous knowledge of some kind? Whilst Okishev was being fairly open in his interview with the Komsomolskaya Pravda journalists and his discussion with Leonid Proshkin, Proshkin himself points out that he felt Okishev was holding something back. In particular he mentioned the lack of a case number which supports the view that the real case file is elsewhere and that the one for public consumption is just a dummy as has long been suspected by many observers of the Dyatlov story. The arrival in Sverdlovsk of the Deputy General Prosecutor of the USSR - Deputy Prosecutor General Urakov is of great significance. The fact that one of the most powerful men in the Soviet legal system arrives from Moscow to deal with an accident to nine skiers and takes away the case files with him seems highly unusual. He appears to have no interest in what they had to tell him about the course of the investigation and before he leaves, he instructs them (Klinov, Okishev and Ivanov) to say that the deaths were due to an accident. It is worth repeating here what Okishev said about Urakov’s visit; Urakov came to meet with us and gave orders that we were to all tell anyone who asked that the tourists’ death was an accident. Urakov evaded all our direct questions about tests of armaments. I mean, he did not deny this version, but simply avoided direct answers. What’s more, Urakov took absolutely no interest in the course of our investigation, as if the picture of the scene was absolutely clear to him already. He, however, took the case away with him. With that, our investigation came to an end. Just imagine: at the very height of the investigation, when dead bodies with strange injuries have just been found, the case is being taken away! Okishev also says that in all his years as a prosecutor, this was the only one which involved a high ranking official arriving from Moscow and taking the case away with him. Would the second most powerful man in the Soviet legal system have bothered to travel from Moscow to Sverdlovsk if the Dyatlov group had died in an avalanche? A simple murder case involving locals? A wind vortex of some kind causing them to wander down the mountain to their deaths? Murder by escaped prisoners or locals (Mansi) etc, etc? It would have been more or less an open and shut case of murder or death by misadventure. Urakov reported directly to the chief prosecutor of the USSR, Procurator General, Roman Rudenko. Rudenko was from the Ukraine and not a man known for tender mercies. He had been the chief Soviet prosecutor at the Nuremburg trials and was the chief prosecutor in the trial of pilot Gary Powers. He had also been commandant of NKVD (The forerunners of the KGB) Special Camp No 7 at Weesow (later moved to Sachenhausen) where approximately 12,500 German prisoners and people sentenced by Soviet military tribunals, died of malnutrition and disease. Rudenko was also the judge who handed down the death sentence to former secret police chief, Lavrenti Beria at his trial. With people like this in the background, it can be understood that Ivanov, Okishev and Klinov and the local Sverdlovsk Communist Party hierarchy would be keen to be seen to follow orders.

McCloskey, Keith. Journey to Dyatlov Pass: An Explanation of the Mystery (pp. 170-172). Keith McCloskey. Kindle Edition.


 


May 07, 2019, 05:07:04 AM
Reply #8

tekumze

Guest
Thank you Nigel.
Maybe I'm the only person who thinks that since 1959 to this day, everything is the same game, and nothing has changed. In fact, nobody has any interest in closing this case definitely and for ever. Who actually works the fool from who? First they officially announce the reopening of the case with great pomp. Then after two months, when everyone expects at least some statement, we have found that in fact the case hasn't been reopened. And what does that mean? Maybe, after preliminary investigation will be main investigation and after that I don't know what kind of investigation... and common to all investigations is that are not obliged to nothing and nobody.
This metaphorically reminds me of Loch Ness, when everybody have interest and profit that it does not officially say that Nessie does not exist and never existed at all. Because there are too many interests behind.
It's the same here.
In reality, the state will never make a formal statement. For these or other reasons. More are the rumors and wrinkles are present the higher is the layer above the objective truth. The time moving away, and the tragedy on the Dyatlov pass gets more and more abstract. And then it's just a matter of time, when they slowly slip into myth and legend. And it seems that this is a major interest.
This is just my opinion...


May 07, 2019, 08:23:53 AM
Reply #9

Clacon

Guest
Completely agree "tekumze".

Some people say to me that I actually DON'T want a resolution to this case, so I can obsess and investigate and distract myself from the humdrum; so I don't have to adhere to and accept what happened in reality - I can wade around in conjecture and imagination and DPI limbo forever....

Its not true at all. I do want the truth - I still haven't lost sight of the fact that these were 9 human beings who died tragically and mysteriously. I want resolution to the case because their loved ones deserve it and because they themselves deserve to rest in peace. And the fact that the authorities aren't being transparent about this case for whatever reason boils my blood.

May 07, 2019, 10:13:53 AM
Reply #10

tekumze

Guest
In particular, I must emphasize that every honor and respect from me belongs to persons like Clacon and Nigel Evans on this forum. Two of you respond to each question, thesis or theory in an intellectual way, full of empathy and different viewpoints. Unlike someones which responses are distanced, exalted, and are intended  more for glorification of themselves than anything else.
Because, tell me what words you use and I will tell you who you are.

Legal caution: In the meantime, anyone who is familiar with the law of jurisdiction in any country with legal regulation, should know that any legal act in the field of official investigation of accidents or criminal offenses is always in the domain of the people. And its purpose  and the ultimate goal is not to be selfless but duty-bound to publicly. Of course this also applies to Dyatlov pass case.


May 08, 2019, 01:52:49 AM
Reply #11
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Nigel Evans


In particular, I must emphasize that every honor and respect from me belongs to persons like Clacon and Nigel Evans on this forum. Two of you respond to each question, thesis or theory in an intellectual way, full of empathy and different viewpoints. Unlike someones which responses are distanced, exalted, and are intended  more for glorification of themselves than anything else.
Because, tell me what words you use and I will tell you who you are.

Legal caution: In the meantime, anyone who is familiar with the law of jurisdiction in any country with legal regulation, should know that any legal act in the field of official investigation of accidents or criminal offenses is always in the domain of the people. And its purpose  and the ultimate goal is not to be selfless but duty-bound to publicly. Of course this also applies to Dyatlov pass case.
Hey, good comments!  kewl1

May 08, 2019, 02:05:55 PM
Reply #12
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Teddy

Administrator

May 09, 2019, 01:21:11 AM
Reply #13
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Nigel Evans



May 09, 2019, 03:34:55 AM
Reply #14

tekumze

Guest
System employees have never done anything in the history of human civilization so far. It was always necessary to wait and hope that an individual would appear... and then we can count on solution of the problem.

May 10, 2019, 02:38:23 AM
Reply #15
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Aspen


Is there an "Access to Information" law in Russia, by which citizens may request the COMPLETE Dyatlov case file, including the portions taken away by authorities in 1959?

When making a request under Access to Information law, the response should indicate whether or not all files are disclosed, and whether some remain classified.

Would the KGB have destroyed compromising files though?  I am reminded of the CIA's sordid MKULTRA project, where in the end they sought to destroy all documents.  However some records were 'mistakenly' not destroyed and eventually discovered by a journalist in 1977, which led to a state inquiry of the matter, an inquiry which revealed a lot.


May 10, 2019, 05:26:37 AM
Reply #16
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gypsy


Is there an "Access to Information" law in Russia, by which citizens may request the COMPLETE Dyatlov case file, including the portions taken away by authorities in 1959?

When making a request under Access to Information law, the response should indicate whether or not all files are disclosed, and whether some remain classified.

Would the KGB have destroyed compromising files though?  I am reminded of the CIA's sordid MKULTRA project, where in the end they sought to destroy all documents.  However some records were 'mistakenly' not destroyed and eventually discovered by a journalist in 1977, which led to a state inquiry of the matter, an inquiry which revealed a lot.

It does exist in a very limited scope and access to information pretty much relies on the individual decision as you said. (p.45 of the document below)

https://www.article19.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Opening_up_Russia_RTI_report_10.12.pdf

May 10, 2019, 11:29:37 AM
Reply #17
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Is there an "Access to Information" law in Russia, by which citizens may request the COMPLETE Dyatlov case file, including the portions taken away by authorities in 1959?

When making a request under Access to Information law, the response should indicate whether or not all files are disclosed, and whether some remain classified.

Would the KGB have destroyed compromising files though?  I am reminded of the CIA's sordid MKULTRA project, where in the end they sought to destroy all documents.  However some records were 'mistakenly' not destroyed and eventually discovered by a journalist in 1977, which led to a state inquiry of the matter, an inquiry which revealed a lot.

All Governments will limit what information is available to the Public if such information is considered a SECURITY THREAT or some other risky matter. Thats the nature of STATES. Access to Information so long as that Information doesnt JEOPARDISE the STATE.
DB

May 10, 2019, 12:57:07 PM
Reply #18

tekumze

Guest
Sarapuk and Gypsy thanks for the good thinking. I agree.
Here I will allow myself a little explanation:
First of all we must understand the concept of the state. In fact, the state is basically nothing else than (I apologize to all patriots) the authority over the territory. And throughout more or less of 15.000 years the history of human civilization, irrespective of the state system (feudalism, socialism, capitalism or any other  ...ism), the arrangement was always a pyramid scheme. The differences were always only in cosmetic corrections. The minor percentage of people at the top of the pyramid scheme has always created a legal basis for laws designed to preserve power over a particular territory. And even the state is so "democratic" always and firstly make sure that every freedom begins and ends when the government says, so.
And here is the main catch 22.
When the actors of the official investigation start began with the demagogic acrobatic evasions so-called "Reopening Dyatlov Pass Case" immediately meant that they will say only what the authorities allowed to tell. And here a reasonable suspicion arises that they will not say anything. And of course those: WHY? is getting bigger and bigger.
P..s.: You must know that at the moment when you think that you are free you are not free at all...


May 11, 2019, 12:50:44 AM
Reply #19
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Aspen


Thanks Gypsy, great document.  Has there been any formal request by a Russian citizen for all records pertaining to the Dyatlov incident?  That would be an important first step.  The response might not be truthful nor complete, but at least they have to respond and that provides something to work with further.  Otherwise we are left to endlessly recycle theories one after another.

For example, if the response is that all files have been lost, could the individuals involved in covering up the data at the time be invited (or subpoenaed) to provide clarifications through an inquiry?   After all that time there isn’t likely to be much repercussions about revealing information on this case.

If I can use again the example of the ghastly MKULTRA project, when more information came up in 1977 indicating actual crimes were committed by the CIA against US and Canadian citizens, no one went to jail.  Eventually some of the victims were compensated, and recommendations were officially made to prohibit such projects.  (At least that is the official position, maybe not the reality…)

So, those investigators at the time of the Dyatlov case who said that higher authorities took the case away from them would be in a good position for making that request.  (Or relatives of the investigators and Dyatlov group.)  Has this been done formally?  In particular with the most recent 'reopening' of the case?

May 11, 2019, 01:44:37 AM
Reply #20
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Aspen


Another example of record search that could potentially be made:

Quoting former prosecutor Evgeniy Okishev’s comments from recent (date?) interview:

“Deputy Prosecutor General, comrade Urakov came to meet with us (in 1959) and gave orders that we were to all tell anyone who asked that the hikers’ death was an accident. Urakov evaded all our direct questions about tests of armaments. I mean, he did not deny this version, but simply avoided direct answers. What’s more, Urakov took absolutely no interest in the course of our investigation, as if the picture of the scene was absolutely clear to him already. He, however, took the case away with him. With that, our investigation came to an end.”
https://dyatlovpass.com/evgeniy-okishev-2013?rbid=18461

The above account does provide a trail that could be followed up: there could be a request made to research prosecutor Urakov’s files.  Was this request made? 

May 11, 2019, 03:29:25 AM
Reply #21

tekumze

Guest
Aspen  thumb1 . Very good questions for the next cue. Which is the following: who of those (legal authority, some still alive witnesses...) who today can actually do something seriously, are ready to do honestly something at all? In fact, endlessly recycle theories one after another has been going on since 1995 until today.
And if you pay attention, you can find out that for each specific question, there is never a precise answer. And when we get to the point where a representative of the official authority should give the exact answer, it is in the style: This is preliminary investigation and the Prosecutors office is not obliged to publicly report of its actions, findings and conclusions. What a f...? And, of course, is everything  trapped in a never-ending vortex, intended only for itself.

May 11, 2019, 04:08:38 AM
Reply #22
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Nigel Evans


Freedom of Information requests from a government that has twice eliminated it's critics (here in the UK) with complete disregard for the safety of innocent civilians? Best of luck but i'm rolling my eyes....

May 11, 2019, 05:13:40 AM
Reply #23

tekumze

Guest
Hey Nigel, I'm rolling my eyes too... thumb1

May 11, 2019, 12:50:38 PM
Reply #24
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Not much seems to have changed in 60 years does it  !  ?  One could almost be forgiven for thinking that we are still in those primitive COLD WAR DAYS. Relations between Russia [ replacing the USSR ] and the USA are has bad now as they were then. No wonder the Authorities are reluctant to open up about the Dyatlov Pass Mystery. It looks like something extraordinary happened and the STATE had no choice but to close the matter. So why would they want to reopen the Case now.  !  ? 
DB

May 11, 2019, 11:39:17 PM
Reply #25

tekumze

Guest
Dear Sarapuk, I'm happy with your question (So why would they want to reopen the Case now. !?). That's also my question. Although I suspect that I know the answer: In fact, nobody really wants to open the case now. Everything is just a theater performance. This is just like the JFK case. On every round anniversary, they draw on the surface of infinite conspiracy theories. Because the public recalls on the anniversary of an unresolved mystical event from history. Then the month or maximum two official representatives of the authorities seemingly deal with the case. People are confused with a whole lot of irrelevant data. Life is flowing and very soon no one else understands nothing. Naturally, there are no concrete solutions. And interest disappears. And this is also the script here. Very soon, only a handful of enthusiasts will be discussing on the forums. The general public will to join on the next 100th anniversary. For a while. And the circus will be repeat.

May 12, 2019, 12:56:35 AM
Reply #26
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cennetkusu


So why would they want to reopen the Case now.  !  ? Because they don't know anything. And they're wondering about the Dytlov thing. They're even more curious than us. Because they have photos, articles and proofs that we don't know !!! That's why their curiosity is on line. And maybe they planned to open some new investigation and get some information. But they got a negative result. In fact, they can publicize these photos and evidence. But they still consider it convenient. In addition, there is no demand from the public.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 05:06:33 AM by Teddy »
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.

May 12, 2019, 01:58:19 AM
Reply #27

tekumze

Guest
Thanks Cennetkusu, I think more or less in the same direction.

May 12, 2019, 02:51:57 AM
Reply #28
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Aspen


On the contrary, there is huge public interest.  That is why world wide web sites like this one are focused on the Dyatlov incident.  The background info on this site shows that relatives and friends of the Dyatlov group were pressing the investigators for answers, and obviously still do, because the authorities are now going through the motions of 'reopening' the case.  A lot has changed in Russia since 1995.  The KBG no longer exists, for one thing.  Issues that couldn't be discussed publicly at the time are now openly talked about.  It is a matter of public interest to find out what happened to the group, as it might help to prevent another similar tragedy.

May 12, 2019, 05:31:29 AM
Reply #29
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Nigel Evans


On the contrary, there is huge public interest.  That is why world wide web sites like this one are focused on the Dyatlov incident.  The background info on this site shows that relatives and friends of the Dyatlov group were pressing the investigators for answers, and obviously still do, because the authorities are now going through the motions of 'reopening' the case.  A lot has changed in Russia since 1995.  The KBG no longer exists, for one thing.  Issues that couldn't be discussed publicly at the time are now openly talked about.  It is a matter of public interest to find out what happened to the group, as it might help to prevent another similar tragedy.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/salisbury-novichok-attack-poison-sergei-skripal-nerve-agent-killed-thousands-police-dawn-sturgess-a8647246.html