Exploring The Yeti Theory

[Star man]

Looking for evidence is interesting.  There are key facts, but multiple possibilities that could fit those facts making it difficult to solve.  Also, space and time.  There is no time stamp on the events so apart from one or two sequences it's difficult to know exactly what happened and when.  Do they all leave the tent together or in groups?  Who went where and with who.  It's complicated.

One aspect I have been thinking about is evidence of "haste", and the placing this into context for the Yeti theory:

Did they leave the tent in haste?    I'd the cold was a threat, then maybe it wasn't the only threat?  Maybe there was something else just as dangerous as the cold?

Is there any other indication of haste?

Regards

Star man

The Evidence problem is a very difficult one. May be one day more Evidence will come to light. As for Evidence of HASTE, well it looks like they left the Tent in a fair hurry, because of the indications re clothing and all the stuff they left behind in the Tent. Well I suppose in those weather conditions if you leave a Tent you are exposing yourself to a greater danger. We dont know the EXACT weather conditions when they left the Tent. By all accounts the weather can change dramatically in those regions in a very short time.
[/quote]

True but could do with evidence that they left in haste .  The clothes is a good indicator but it doesn’t rule out that they could have been forced to leave without clothes?

Regards

Star man

[Star man]

Some more thoughts on Thibo’s head Injuries.

The large rain drop shaped skull crush injury is accompanied by the longer fracture around to the front of the skull.  Given that a typical head weighs about 5 to 6 kg, it would probably take a significant fall to cause that level of damage.  Probably a fall greater than that which could be credible on the pass.  Looking at the injury more closely it appears as if whatever caused the rain drop shaped crush also continued to apply continued force to right side of the skull initiating and propagating the long fracture.  Is such an injury more consistent with a large heavy rock being dropped on his head thus allowing the continued application of force to the head between the rock and the ground?

Regards

Star man

I think some of the injuries could easily have been caused by a BEAR. But Iam not saying that a BEAR caused those injuries. Also on the subject of strange creatures like the alleged YETI, then I would have thought such a creature could also have caused those injuries. And again Iam not saying that a YETI caused those injuries.

Agree that we should not assume that the alleged Yeti was involved.  This needs to be an objective analysis of the theory allowing the suspension of disbelief. 

I am just looking for better evidence either for or against.

I may suggest controversial claims for the sake of the argument though.

Regards

Star man

[Star man]

Ok this is just an observation and it is definitely a little controversial.

First I want you to think about holding a football in your hands with one hand either side. Now imagine yourself trying to squeeze the football as hard as you can.  You could actually try it but be careful not to do yourself an injury.  Which part of your hands do you use to ensure you can apply the most pressure?

Now look at the shape of that part of your hand.  Are you looking at the ball of your thumb? Now look at the shape of the crush injury on Thibeaux-Brignolle’s skull.

Scaling up those dimensions in terms of a typical human hand would give you a hand 12 inches long and about 6 inches wide.

Of course there could be other things that could cause a skull fracture shape like that which I am investigating.

Regards

Star man

[Star man]

Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

[gypsy]

Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

Pressure of 450kg sounds like a lot, but the test was performed with almost no acceleration which requires much more force compared to a direct impact with blunt object. The other thing ist the area of impact (smaller area of impact is more likely to cause the fracture). It is possible to inflict such injury with human powers as it happened before in combat sports or even football.

Chelsea goalkeeper sustained a similar fracture some years ago by being hit by the knee or shinguard of the opposition player.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2300976/Champions-League-final-Graphic-MRI-scans-of-Petr-Cechs-head-injury-published.html

[Star man]

Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

Pressure of 450kg sounds like a lot, but the test was performed with almost no acceleration which requires much more force compared to a direct impact with blunt object. The other thing ist the area of impact (smaller area of impact is more likely to cause the fracture). It is possible to inflict such injury with human powers as it happened before in combat sports or even football.

Chelsea goalkeeper sustained a similar fracture some years ago by being hit by the knee or shinguard of the opposition player.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2300976/Champions-League-final-Graphic-MRI-scans-of-Petr-Cechs-head-injury-published.html

The 450kg would be the static force yes.  I would say there will be some variability - possibly +/- 100kg,.  Will vary from person to person.  Also dynamic loads/forces such as being hit with a blunt object or blunt weapon, or falling and hitting head against something hard would not require something with a mass of 450 kg.  I am looking into some Of these possibilities.

Yes it probably is possible for a human to inflict this kind of injury.  Some of the worlds strongest men could probably do it by crushing the skill with their bare hands even.  But applying dynamic loads would be easier.

When I have some more data I'll post it.

Regards

Star man

[Star man]

Some further thoughts on Thibo’s head injury:

The shape of the injury is quite clear with a distinct rounded perimeter. Slightly elliptical in shape.  If the depression of the injury ranges from 1cm to 3cm then it would mean that the radius of curvature at the point where the injury occurred would be between 6cm and 13cm.  So what could have credibly caused the injury:

1. A fall onto a Rock - Yes
2. Hit with a rock - yes
3. Rock dropped onto head - yes
4. Hit with blunt object - yes
5. Hit with rounded weapon - yes
6. Skull crushed between hands - only by something immensely strong.

Unfortunately there is nothing that can be completely ruled out just looking at the head injury alone.

If you consider the comments from the autopsy the lack of soft tissue damage is interesting. This combined with the lack of injuries to hands, wrists might lower the possibility of a fall.  But Thibo had 2 thick hats on.  Another key point is that Thibo, Lyuda and Semyon all had serious injuries which would significantly increase the likelihood of a violent attack,

Regards
Star man

[Star man]

Have made a minor amendment to the above post. I had written the diameter rather than the radius. Now corrected.

Regards
Star man

[Star man]

Thibo’s head injury taken in isolation doesn’t reveal anything astonishing.  However when considered holistically with the rav 4.  There are some interesting observations:

1. At least one of the rav four had a knife. This was used to remove clothing from their dead friends at the cedar.

2. The autopsy reports mentions nothing about rope marks on their ankles and wrists, indicating that they were not tied up or restrained.

3. Three of the group had significant injuries.  Any one of which could be explained by a significant fall.  But all three together and with no damage to wrists or ankles is very unlikely (unless they were all unconscious) which is even more unlikely.  This would point to an act of violence by someone or something.

4.  Although Thibo’s head injury could have been caused by another person using a blunt instrument, Semyon and Lyuda’s injuries would have taken a force beyond that which any human could muster.  I think is safe to exclude explosions too as there would be cuts from small pieces of debris and possibly scorch marks. There is no evidence of any explosion.

5. If they were not constrained and had a knife why would their attackers use primitive methods of attack?  The rav four were not stabbed, shot. Or cut by any blade.

It would seem to me that if they were attacked, then whatever/whoever attacked them was also the same thing that drove them from the tent.

Regards
Star man

[Star man]

Lets have another quick look at the cedar.  The two Yuris climbed the tree. Given the injuries to the hands and bruises and abrasions to their bodies and the fact that skin was found on the bark of the tree, does that sound like they were climbing to look for fire wood? Or to make a lookout? Or to find safety?

Regards
Star man

[Loose}{Cannon]

No idea....   The skin may have been deposited on the way down leaving any number of reasons to have gone up.

[Star man]

No idea....   The skin may have been deposited on the way down leaving any number of reasons to have gone up.

True. It’s a good point.

Regards
Star man

[Loose}{Cannon]

In my opinion, they may have simply needed dry firewood.  In these conditions, everything on the ground is water-logged and subsequently frozen.  It makes more sense to collect dry dead branches still attached to a tree.   After you have a good bed of hot coals, it's possible to thaw and dry wood from the ground, but they didn't get that far.  No, they HAD to have dry wood still attached to a tree to have any chance of getting a fire going.

This is like camping 101. 

[sarapuk]

Looking for evidence is interesting.  There are key facts, but multiple possibilities that could fit those facts making it difficult to solve.  Also, space and time.  There is no time stamp on the events so apart from one or two sequences it's difficult to know exactly what happened and when.  Do they all leave the tent together or in groups?  Who went where and with who.  It's complicated.

One aspect I have been thinking about is evidence of "haste", and the placing this into context for the Yeti theory:

Did they leave the tent in haste?    I'd the cold was a threat, then maybe it wasn't the only threat?  Maybe there was something else just as dangerous as the cold?

Is there any other indication of haste?

Regards

Star man

The Evidence problem is a very difficult one. May be one day more Evidence will come to light. As for Evidence of HASTE, well it looks like they left the Tent in a fair hurry, because of the indications re clothing and all the stuff they left behind in the Tent. Well I suppose in those weather conditions if you leave a Tent you are exposing yourself to a greater danger. We dont know the EXACT weather conditions when they left the Tent. By all accounts the weather can change dramatically in those regions in a very short time.

True but could do with evidence that they left in haste .  The clothes is a good indicator but it doesn’t rule out that they could have been forced to leave without clothes?

Regards

Star man
[/quote]

Well HASTE means leaving in a hurry, getting a move on as opposed to going slowly.  We dont know why they left in a hurry. They could have been forced or they could have been scared. In that respect we have no evidence.

[sarapuk]

Some more thoughts on Thibo’s head Injuries.

The large rain drop shaped skull crush injury is accompanied by the longer fracture around to the front of the skull.  Given that a typical head weighs about 5 to 6 kg, it would probably take a significant fall to cause that level of damage.  Probably a fall greater than that which could be credible on the pass.  Looking at the injury more closely it appears as if whatever caused the rain drop shaped crush also continued to apply continued force to right side of the skull initiating and propagating the long fracture.  Is such an injury more consistent with a large heavy rock being dropped on his head thus allowing the continued application of force to the head between the rock and the ground?

Regards

Star man

I think some of the injuries could easily have been caused by a BEAR. But Iam not saying that a BEAR caused those injuries. Also on the subject of strange creatures like the alleged YETI, then I would have thought such a creature could also have caused those injuries. And again Iam not saying that a YETI caused those injuries.

Agree that we should not assume that the alleged Yeti was involved.  This needs to be an objective analysis of the theory allowing the suspension of disbelief. 

I am just looking for better evidence either for or against.

I may suggest controversial claims for the sake of the argument though.

Regards

Star man

Well its going to be difficult regarding evidence for the Yeti Theory. All we have is sightings and experiences from other places and other times. We cant do DNA tests because we have no TENT or CLOTHES from any of the Dyatlov Group. And we have no other OBJECTS as far as I know  !  ? What happened to all the EQUIPMENT  !  ?  In any case of potential MURDER or unusual circumstances the Authorities of any Country would be likely to keep some OBJECTS for the future in case of progress in FORENSICS. But not it appears the Russian Authorities dealing with the Dyatlov Case.

[sarapuk]

Ok this is just an observation and it is definitely a little controversial.

First I want you to think about holding a football in your hands with one hand either side. Now imagine yourself trying to squeeze the football as hard as you can.  You could actually try it but be careful not to do yourself an injury.  Which part of your hands do you use to ensure you can apply the most pressure?

Now look at the shape of that part of your hand.  Are you looking at the ball of your thumb? Now look at the shape of the crush injury on Thibeaux-Brignolle’s skull.

Scaling up those dimensions in terms of a typical human hand would give you a hand 12 inches long and about 6 inches wide.

Of course there could be other things that could cause a skull fracture shape like that which I am investigating.

Regards

Star man

That sounds interesting. Same hands or hands attached to arms that could have crushed Dubinina's chest maybe. No human could cause those type of Chest injuries.

[sarapuk]

Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

In other words no Human hands could have crushed the Skull.

https://www.sciencealert.com/game-of-thrones-exposed-the-science-of-skull-crushing

[sarapuk]

Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

Pressure of 450kg sounds like a lot, but the test was performed with almost no acceleration which requires much more force compared to a direct impact with blunt object. The other thing ist the area of impact (smaller area of impact is more likely to cause the fracture). It is possible to inflict such injury with human powers as it happened before in combat sports or even football.

Chelsea goalkeeper sustained a similar fracture some years ago by being hit by the knee or shinguard of the opposition player.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2300976/Champions-League-final-Graphic-MRI-scans-of-Petr-Cechs-head-injury-published.html

The 450kg would be the static force yes.  I would say there will be some variability - possibly +/- 100kg,.  Will vary from person to person.  Also dynamic loads/forces such as being hit with a blunt object or blunt weapon, or falling and hitting head against something hard would not require something with a mass of 450 kg.  I am looking into some Of these possibilities.

Yes it probably is possible for a human to inflict this kind of injury.  Some of the worlds strongest men could probably do it by crushing the skill with their bare hands even.  But applying dynamic loads would be easier.

When I have some more data I'll post it.

Regards

Star man

Interesting. I think we need to look at other injuries on other Dyatlov Bodies to build up a picture of NON HUMAN involvement in those injuries. I post this link again for food for thought.   https://www.sciencealert.com/game-of-thrones-exposed-the-science-of-skull-crushing

[sarapuk]

Thibo’s head injury taken in isolation doesn’t reveal anything astonishing.  However when considered holistically with the rav 4.  There are some interesting observations:

1. At least one of the rav four had a knife. This was used to remove clothing from their dead friends at the cedar.

2. The autopsy reports mentions nothing about rope marks on their ankles and wrists, indicating that they were not tied up or restrained.

3. Three of the group had significant injuries.  Any one of which could be explained by a significant fall.  But all three together and with no damage to wrists or ankles is very unlikely (unless they were all unconscious) which is even more unlikely.  This would point to an act of violence by someone or something.

4.  Although Thibo’s head injury could have been caused by another person using a blunt instrument, Semyon and Lyuda’s injuries would have taken a force beyond that which any human could muster.  I think is safe to exclude explosions too as there would be cuts from small pieces of debris and possibly scorch marks. There is no evidence of any explosion.

5. If they were not constrained and had a knife why would their attackers use primitive methods of attack?  The rav four were not stabbed, shot. Or cut by any blade.

It would seem to me that if they were attacked, then whatever/whoever attacked them was also the same thing that drove them from the tent.

Regards
Star man

Yes we need to build up a picture of NON HUMAN involvement in the whole Dyatlov Case.

[sarapuk]

Lets have another quick look at the cedar.  The two Yuris climbed the tree. Given the injuries to the hands and bruises and abrasions to their bodies and the fact that skin was found on the bark of the tree, does that sound like they were climbing to look for fire wood? Or to make a lookout? Or to find safety?

Regards
Star man

I would say it looks like they were trying to get away from something. A last desperate attempt to escape from some ENTITY.

[sarapuk]

In my opinion, they may have simply needed dry firewood.  In these conditions, everything on the ground is water-logged and subsequently frozen.  It makes more sense to collect dry dead branches still attached to a tree.   After you have a good bed of hot coals, it's possible to thaw and dry wood from the ground, but they didn't get that far.  No, they HAD to have dry wood still attached to a tree to have any chance of getting a fire going.

This is like camping 101.

But why choose that particular tree to climb when there were other SIBERIAN PINE TREES all around, and easier to get at as far as getting the branches suitable for burning   !  ?  Why choose a tall tree like that ! ?

[Star man]

In my opinion, they may have simply needed dry firewood.  In these conditions, everything on the ground is water-logged and subsequently frozen.  It makes more sense to collect dry dead branches still attached to a tree.   After you have a good bed of hot coals, it's possible to thaw and dry wood from the ground, but they didn't get that far.  No, they HAD to have dry wood still attached to a tree to have any chance of getting a fire going.

This is like camping 101.

It is possible that they could have scrambled up the tree in desperation even to get fire wood.  If they were freezing to death and the only dry fire wood was on the cedar then the wood becomes a matter of life and death?

I think the cedar is worth considering in more detail to understand it objectively in the context of this particular theory.

Here is something to think about and worth discussing:

Would you agree that there is a fair amount of evidence that Yuris D climbed the cedar? - moss and pine needles in his hair, cuts, bruises and abrasions on his body and particularly around arm pits.  It's unlikely that he got those abrasions and bruises in those locations while descending the slope?

Now, we don't know exactly who was at the cedar and when.  Yuris D and Yuris K were there.  Some of the other group members may have been there earlier on, or not until later when the clothes were removed.

What we do know however, is that not everybody would "need" to climb the tree to collect the dry wood.  It would only take one person to climb, and break down the branches and throw them to the ground.

We also know from the autopsy reports that Yuris D had severe frost bite on his fingers and toes.  So much so that it is said that if he had survived he would have needed his toes and fingers amputated.

So the first question: did Yuris D sustain the severe frost bite before or after the fire was lit?

Probably before?  If the fire was lit before the frost bite then he shouldn't really have gotten the frost bite.

But if he had severe frost bite before the fire was lit then he probably wasn't the best choice of person to collect fire wood from the cedar.  So why would he climb the tree?

If he and Yuris K were the only ones at the cedar then Yuri K would be better placed to climb the tree and pull the dry wood down?  If there were other members of the group there then most of them would be more capable of climbing and collecting the wood.  But for some reason Yuri D still climbed the tree with frost bitten fingers and toes so severe that they would require amputation?

Or was there another reason for climbing the tree with severely frost bitten fingers and toes?

Are there any other explanations?

Regards

Star man

[Loose}{Cannon]

I think you lose feeling in your fingers long before you actually get the frostbite, so I wouldn't imagine him 'not' being able to climb the cedar just prior to frostbite. The fire seems very insufficient and likely unable to do much, especially with a fair wind.

[gypsy]

That sounds interesting. Same hands or hands attached to arms that could have crushed Dubinina's chest maybe. No human could cause those type of Chest injuries.

That is a very bold statement with no factual basis. Rib fractures are often inflicted y manual resuscitation so I see no reason that even 8-9 ribs could have been broken by for example stomping on person's chest while lying down on the floor. The force equals attaker weight multiplied by acceleration. This is very basic medical knowledge.

https://www.primemedicaltraining.com/does-cpr-break-ribs/

[gypsy]

Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

In other words no Human hands could have crushed the Skull.

https://www.sciencealert.com/game-of-thrones-exposed-the-science-of-skull-crushing

Actually, quite the opposite. Static force vs. dynamic force. I provided the example that completely dismisses above claim about "no human hands could have crushed the skull". As it happened before even unintentionally, it is possible.

[Star man]

I think you lose feeling in your fingers long before you actually get the frostbite, so I wouldn't imagine him 'not' being able to climb the cedar just prior to frostbite. The fire seems very insufficient and likely unable to do much, especially with a fair wind.

If he had lost the feeling (and strength) in his fingers.  It would be difficult for him to climb the cedar tree without help.  So if he was in the cedar it is possible he was hauled up it by his friends which would explain all the abrasions?  I think the two Yuris had already lost too much body heat before the fire was lit. Or maybe they were forced to wait in the cedar frightened to climb down?

Either way it is odd that Yuri D both had severe frost bite and climbed the tree.
Regards

Star man

[Loose}{Cannon]

Part of the mystery...  But I like the way you think.   

[Star man]

Some further digging on Thibo's skull crush injury:

I found the following paper online:

http://www.ircobi.org/wordpress/downloads/irc13/pdf_files/54.pdf

I can't testify to the authenticity of the above paper but it appears credible as a technical reference.

Based on the findings of this paper Thibo's crush injury would have taken a static force in the region of 450kg.  Possibly even higher than this given the multiple fracture pattern and fragmentation and also the propagated fractures.

Regards

Star man

Pressure of 450kg sounds like a lot, but the test was performed with almost no acceleration which requires much more force compared to a direct impact with blunt object. The other thing ist the area of impact (smaller area of impact is more likely to cause the fracture). It is possible to inflict such injury with human powers as it happened before in combat sports or even football.

Chelsea goalkeeper sustained a similar fracture some years ago by being hit by the knee or shinguard of the opposition player.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2300976/Champions-League-final-Graphic-MRI-scans-of-Petr-Cechs-head-injury-published.html

The 450kg would be the static force yes.  I would say there will be some variability - possibly +/- 100kg,.  Will vary from person to person.  Also dynamic loads/forces such as being hit with a blunt object or blunt weapon, or falling and hitting head against something hard would not require something with a mass of 450 kg.  I am looking into some Of these possibilities.

Yes it probably is possible for a human to inflict this kind of injury.  Some of the worlds strongest men could probably do it by crushing the skill with their bare hands even.  But applying dynamic loads would be easier.

When I have some more data I'll post it.

Regards

Star man

Interesting. I think we need to look at other injuries on other Dyatlov Bodies to build up a picture of NON HUMAN involvement in those injuries. I post this link again for food for thought.   https://www.sciencealert.com/game-of-thrones-exposed-the-science-of-skull-crushing

Yes I am kind of looking into the injuries to assess how they could have happened.

The link you provided seems to support my calculations on the skull crush injury.

Regards

Star man

[Star man]

Part of the mystery...  But I like the way you think.   

There is some potential for irrational decision making given the circumstances on the pass. I suppose there might not be a logical explanation for everything but we can only dig and speculate.

I have a couple of other potentially  interesting and controversial thoughts in relation to this topic but I will keep hold of them for now and do a bit more research before discussing them.

Regards

Star man

[Star man]

Ok this is just an observation and it is definitely a little controversial.

First I want you to think about holding a football in your hands with one hand either side. Now imagine yourself trying to squeeze the football as hard as you can.  You could actually try it but be careful not to do yourself an injury.  Which part of your hands do you use to ensure you can apply the most pressure?

Now look at the shape of that part of your hand.  Are you looking at the ball of your thumb? Now look at the shape of the crush injury on Thibeaux-Brignolle’s skull.

Scaling up those dimensions in terms of a typical human hand would give you a hand 12 inches long and about 6 inches wide.

Of course there could be other things that could cause a skull fracture shape like that which I am investigating.

Regards

Star man

Just another observation relevant to the above post:

Zina long bruise.  29 cm long or about 12 inches.  Coincidence?

Regards
Star man