September 28, 2021, 03:55:27 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

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1
Дятловцы поставили палатку на ровной площадке, где не надо было копать снег.

Фотографии раскопа были сняты не на месте палатки:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=75302

Это место их не устроило или из-за большого камня под снегом или (что более вероятно) из-за надувания снега на скат палатки:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=64481

P.S. Место палатки было найдено в 2013 году с точностью 1 метр:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=63482
2
General Discussion / Re: Flashlight on top of tent
« Last post by Paf on September 26, 2021, 04:12:52 PM »
Flashlight battery can also suffer from the cold.
My bike battery has hard time not getting off at -30, but after half an hour inside, the battery is good again.

The lamp may have been discarded because out of battery -due to the cold at night- and then warming up enough (for the battery to recover) during the day it was found.
3
General Discussion / Re: Is a trench necessary for camping on the slope? Why dig a trench?
« Last post by Paf on September 26, 2021, 04:03:53 PM »
I think they choose the spot to be protected from the wind (even assuming there was no wind when they set it up, they didn't want to be surprised ! They knew what a ridge is).
That explain also why the snow was so deep at this place : the snow is blown from flat surfaces and carried away to and deposed where it's calmer, creating snowdrift. It's like 10 minutes digging, not a lot of work (on the picture we can actually see somebody putting their backpack down : what we see was dug by the first hikers to arrive, before the last one did), but it's a lot of confort.
4

Quote
And as far as I know, ways to "communicate with the outside world" are not commonly taken on hikes even these days.I don't think flares would even be practical because they are only visible from far away at night, and are likely to be missed.A satellite phone would be a better option and is the same price as a smartphone, but I haven't heard about many hikers taking satellite phones with them either...
Where I live (Yukon), lots of big hikers have satellite phones (or satellite GPS with tracking and SOS option), and it's pretty easy to rent them from touring business is you need one just for one back-country, off-trail trip.

A modern flare (the one they use for boat safety) can be seen from 40km, and are burning for 40 seconds. It's not a long distance (the DPI is more than 40km away from district 41) , and not a long time... In the DPI context, it makes no sens to carry a one-use (pretty heavy, explosive, maybe humidity-sensible) short-lived signal that would not be seen from far enough -and only at night.
(especially since it would take quite more than one to lead some help to where there are needed : after just one (seen) flare, the search zone would still be immense !)
 
A radio have the same problem : only some bigger ones could have send SOS across the distance and it was too heavy to carry on a trail. Still : it would have made more sens than flares to me.

What people used to carry a few years ago as "emergency signal" was... a whistle.
It can be heard from 10km (with big variations in mountains, the sound can carry quite further or quite shorter than that), but you can blow it every minute. If you are lucky enough to be heard, your whistling will drive them right to you quickly.




5
Semyon Zolotaryov / Re: Could Zolotaryov be a saboteur?
« Last post by Jean Daniel Reuss on September 26, 2021, 03:51:26 PM »
                Reply #12
You can find it.  Be an on line detective.  The SAM base was northeast of Sverdlovsk.  The train to IVDEL ran through it.  The Powers incident was the first time that the Soviet Union stopped the overflight espionage of U2 plane.  Always in murder, first question - WHY?  If it is worth risking thermonuclear obliteration, isn't it then a sufficient reason for murder?
Why, murder?  Wild Menk, drunk Manzi, rogue MGB?  Really?  To kill little Princes of Technology of new SSSR?  To kill graduates of the premier technical college during a nuclear Cold War?  Who dares?  But if it is related to espionage on S300 SAM - yes, their lives are not worth that.
Read.
I still am silent about the Nine out of respect.  They deserve the respect they have not been granted.

   •••  --->   [ the overflight espionage of U2 plane.]

I do not believe in an espionage case in the genre that Rakitin. Scientific and academic circles obviously had certain relations with the Soviet army.
But to each his own job.
The 9 hikers had no responsibilities, nor any specific information about the operation and guarding of military air defense installations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-to-air_missile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina


   •••  --->   [Why, murder?]

In the case of nine suspicious and difficult to explain deaths, the first question is absolutely not WHY but: is the cause of death of criminal or natural origin?

In the case of Kolgomorova, Slobodin, Dyatlov and Doroshenko, one does not need to be very knowledgeable to understand that they were first stunned by violent blows and then then abandoned thus immobilized in the cold to deliberately provoke certain death (more or less rapid). It is an easy and economical killing process that has been widely used around Gulag camps since 1929.

Krivonischenko was tortured by fire and while he was screaming in pain the torturers had fun pushing his hand down in his throat.

Just read calmly and without prejudice and the obvious should appear to you:
https://dyatlovpass.com/death

This is what Eduard Tumanov says - or suggests - to whom you cannot deny a certain competence on this subject.

Thus you begin to understand  that the DPI is a serious failure for the KGB, which has proved to be incompetent and incapable of protecting the lives of the 9 "little Princes of Technology of the new SSSR" i.e. the "graduates of the premier technical college during a nuclear Cold War" .


   •••  --->   [Who dares?]

It was some of the mighty chiefs of the NKVD in charge of certain camps of the Gulag linked probably to the Ivdellag.                       ;

Indeed the secret report of Khrushchev, of February 24, 1956, (which is very long and repetitive, but almost amusing to read), clearly implied the destruction of the NKVD (and therefore the liquidation of some officers guilty of atrocities) thanks to the efforts of the agents of the KGB (13 March 1954-6 November 1991), which was partly achieved until October 14, 1964 : "when the Presidium and the Central Committee each voted to accept Khrushchev's "voluntary" request to retire from his office...."

These officers (or already ex-officers) of the NKVD feared, with good reason (because like Josef Stalin, they had become typical psychopaths) of being judged and justly condemned to death as had been their most famous and excellent colleagues sentenced to death during the the Khrushchev Thaw period (1953-1964), for instance:
                    Bogdan Koboulov (1904-1953)
                    Lavrenti Beria(1899-1953)
                    Mikhaïl Ryoumine(1913-1954)
                    Viktor Abakoumov(1908-1954)
                    Vsevolod Merkoulov(1895-1954)
                    Amaïak Koboulov (1906-1955)
                    Boris Rodos(1905-1956)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Rodos
« Rodos was sentenced to death on February 26, one day after the Secret Speech. »

To understand the progressive depravity of some guards like their master Stalin, (which was therefore understood by Khrushchev in 1956)
see also : Drawings from the Gulag,  by Danzig Baldaev(1925-2005), in English :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/drawings-gulag-danzig-baldaev-review
https://www.amazon.fr/Drawings-Gulag-Danzig-Baldaev/dp/0956356249
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%B5%D0%B2,_%D0%94%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B3_%D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
or
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Балдаев,_Данциг_Сергеевич


   •••  --->   [ I still am silent about the Nine out of respect]

My conception of respect is different.
Reading and careful studies focusing on Eduard Tumanov, Per Inge Oestmoen and Aleks Kandr have led me to conclude that the most likely explanation for DPI is that this "compelling unknown force" or "overwhelming force" is none other than the surprise attack of 3 mercenary killers, (certainly former Stalinist guards specializing in the pursuit and liquidation of the rare escapees from the camps) which the 9 hikers, despite a courageous but inevitably vain defense, were unable to resist .


                Reply #13
Hi Jacques-Emile
Are [you ?] saying they were murdered because of the SAM base?

Indeed Jacques-Emile probably wanted to facilitate the reading of his post by being rather brief.

But as I am slow of the brain and not very intelligent the brevity of his comment did not allow me to understand what he wanted to explain.

6
Yes but there were areas very close that are almost horizontal, they could have just pitched the tent there.

And a little slope is no problem as long as you're lying with your head up.



7
General Discussion / Re: Is a trench necessary for camping on the slope? Why dig a trench?
« Last post by Paf on September 26, 2021, 02:30:00 PM »
It is probably not a trench, but just a plateforme.

When you want to camp on the snow, you can not just set your tent on top of the snow. It's not hard enough, even if it's crusty and not to thick ; the tent would fly away at first wind. (plus, your body weight would form a hole in the snow under the tent : and sleeping in a snow hole is quite cooler than sleeping on top of an even, solid layer of packed snow - or on frozen ground.)
Plus, they probably wished to have a horizontale bed, not a steep one !

8
General Discussion / Re: Pulsed microwave weapons and the 'Havana syndrome'
« Last post by Ziljoe on September 25, 2021, 07:35:49 PM »
Yeah I'm not suggesting pulsed microwaves were used against the Dyatlov group. Just found it interesting to find out that Russia was conducting research into them that early.

To be honest the more I think about the Dyatlov pass incident the more it seems the information we have is self-contradictory and so it will never be solved.



My apologies to you also Manti. I appreciate your post. And it is very interesting . I also agree that it's interesting that the USSR were possibly  with such technology..

There is so much contradictory information it's frustrating .

9
Were flares even available to civilians at the time?


And as far as I know, ways to "communicate with the outside world" are not commonly taken on hikes even these days.I don't think flares would even be practical because they are only visible from far away at night, and are likely to be missed.A satellite phone would be a better option and is the same price as a smartphone, but I haven't heard about many hikers taking satellite phones with them either...
10
Non-DP Related Mysteries! / Re: New development in the "Tamám Shud" mystery
« Last post by RMK on September 25, 2021, 04:48:38 PM »
Something weird that sticks out in my mind about the Jennifer Fairgate case is the fact that she had rented room 2805 for three nights in a row, but had no payment arranged with the hotel.  No credit card on file, no money down via cash or check, no hold-of-funds on bank card.  Did she have an accomplice (for lack of a better word) among the hotel staff?  Or was there just some dysfunctionality in the hotel's operations at the time, without which the Fairgate case might never have turned into much of a mystery?

Yes I was also thinking that it doesn't look like she was a spy.

A spy would have "real" documents with valid addresses, they wouldn't want to be uncovered when someone simply checks whether the street really exists.
Yes, and she did not even consistently spell her surname in the same way.

Anyway the article is very thorough but one thing I found odd is that there is no mention of CCTV at all. Surely there was CCTV in the hotel and also on the streets and they could at least have an idea of the times when she left/returned to the hotel based on that?
Another good point.  The lack of any reference to CCTV makes me suspect that the coverage depth of the hotel's CCTV cameras was so limited that it was obvious that the footage wouldn't show anything relevant to the case.  There would be a lot less mystery about the case if there were informative CCTV footage.  In particular, if there was extensive CCTV camera coverage, the hotel might be able to definitively show that no mysterious person exited the building during the time between when security guard Espen Næss descended from the 28th floor after hearing a gunshot, and when the head of security arrived at room 2805.  Naturally, the more extensive the coverage, the easier it would be to rule out the possibility that an assassin (perhaps the mysterious Lois Fairgate?) fled room 2805 and left the hotel during that approximately 20-minute time window.

I should mention here that I do think suicide, which is the official manner of death for both Jennifer Fairgate and the Isdal Woman, is the most likely explanation in both cases.  I have little doubt that the Isdal Woman committed suicide, but I do find it believable that Jennifer Fairgate might have been murdered.

So, if these two women weren't spies, what were they?  One of the more interesting theories I've encountered about the Isdal Woman is that she was a spy, but not on behalf of a nation-state, but rather, of a terrorist organization, such as the Red Army Faction (a.k.a. the Baader-Meinhof Gang).  I've already stated my suspicions that the Isdal Woman was an identity thief and/or con artist--perhaps in the same mould as El Dorado Jane Doe.  As for Fairgate, I guess I'm partial to the theory that she was an expensive prostitute who serviced rich clients from high-end hotels in big cities.  All of this is speculation, of course.
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