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General Discussion / Re: Wood Expedition Theory

« Last post by Ziljoe on Today at 03:04:39 AM »

It was definitely not necessary to break branches up to 5 m high because of the fire. The purpose of breaking branches was different.

Those above needed shelter, those below used the branches as torches.

Atmanaki
”Most of the dry branches up to 5 m were broken. Beside this, the side of the tree facing the slope and the tent was completely cleared of branches. These were not dry; they were young and were not used. Some of them were just lying on the ground, and the others were hanging on the lower branches of the cedar. It looked as if someone had created a viewing hide facing the site from where they came.”

I'm not sure why they would need the branches as torches or if these branches would burn like torches. There should be tree sap of the branches at the join to the tree trunk but probably not enough to keep alight but good for a fire.

Here is some more from Atmanaki witness testimony.( It is one of the better statements and is very detailed). https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-209-220

"Finally, about 1.5 km from the tent under the cedar, the bodies of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko were found (earlier that day), lying side by side on a thin layer of fir branches..."

"Meters in two from the place of their death for the cedar have left traces of a fire, quite large, judging by the fact that the remaining logs with a diameter of up to 80 mm, burned in half, everything was powdered with snow, but under the cedar were found someone's checkered shirt, a handkerchief, several socks,..."

"Twenty meters around the cedar were left traces of how one of those present at the cedar cut young fir trees with a knife, we saw about twenty such cuts, but we didn't find the cut branches except one. It is not very likely that they have been used for heating, because in the first place, they don't burn well, and besides there was relatively lots of dry materials around them. In addition, there was no need to cut or chop, because all these young shoots easily broke even from a small effort. One might think that people who did this were very weak, or with a clouded mind. On the cedar, there are traces of fresh kinks."

"Most dry branches up to 5 m high were broken. In addition, the side of the cedar facing the slope on which the tent stood was cleared of branches at an altitude of 4-5 m. These raw branches were not used and partially fell on the ground, partially suspended on the lower branches of the cedar. It looked like people had done something like a window, so they could look from the top of that side of the cedar where they came from and where their tent was..."

"The amount of work done around the cedar, as well as the presence of many things that obviously could not belong to the two comrades found, indicates that the fire had gathered most, if not the whole group, and after making a fire left some of the people there, part decided to go back, to dig up the tent and bring warm clothes and equipment, and the remaining comrades engaged in making something like a hole where the harvested fir branches was used to wait out the weather and wait for the dawn..."

"The area adjoining directly to the fire was dug up; a layer of well trampled melted snow was found around the fire, which indicates that
there were a lot of people gathered around the fire..."


As I understand it , sometimes the translation jumps between fir and spruce tree. There are the broken branches from the ceder and they are used in the fire , some of the remaining branches do not reach the ground , some of these are raw ( or not as dry). There are fir or spruce branches under the two Yuri's ( insulation)

In parallel, there's a number of small spruce trees cut or broken off . These range  up to 20 and I would suspect the trees found in the den flooring are those trees plus one birch. There is speculation that these young trees were used for a snow hole in this testimony and this is exactly what is found in May.

Somewhere in my gut feeling I think the group, or some of the group got wet . To make a fire and a den at separate locations seems a bit counter intuitive . It would seem the group followed the creek down from 1079 and perhaps up the ravine to where they were found .( Path of least resistance?).

Once past the first 2 meters on the ceder , I think it would be relatively easy to climb ,a bit like a ladder . They would just feel for the easy branches to break, the dryer ones would give way.

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General Discussion / Re: Book "1079"

« Last post by GlennM on July 02, 2025, 07:16:05 PM »

Take a look at their bios. There is enough information to give you a feel for who they were individually. In the diaries, you get a sense of how rigidly the hike was structured. For me, they had high ideals, but in reality, they were far more relaxed fun-loving and even moody. They were kids, save one!

The case files lead me to believe the group was cohesive but somewhat lax at their last camp. They moved to the forest as a group. They all likely went to the ravine as a group. From there, three went back toward the tent as a group. The ravine 4 died,as a group. Loyalty and obedience can be mandated as in the military, or earned as in civilian affairs. The test comes in a crisis. Soldiers abandon their post, sailors mutiny and civilians revolt...or they stick together.

For me, they got caught out in poor conditions and no matter their choices, the clock ran out. I would suspect, without proof, that they waited too long before committing to action.  I like the idea of a slab slide on 1079 being the impetus for all subsequent choices including actions at the cedar and the ravine.

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General Discussion / Re: Wood Expedition Theory

« Last post by ZuriDog on July 02, 2025, 08:02:06 AM »

It was definitely not necessary to break branches up to 5 m high because of the fire. The purpose of breaking branches was different.

Those above needed shelter, those below used the branches as torches.

Atmanaki
”Most of the dry branches up to 5 m were broken. Beside this, the side of the tree facing the slope and the tent was completely cleared of branches. These were not dry; they were young and were not used. Some of them were just lying on the ground, and the others were hanging on the lower branches of the cedar. It looked as if someone had created a viewing hide facing the site from where they came.”

It is precisely the side of the tree facing the direction of the tent were you'd expect to find dry branches. As already mentioned in this thread, these are the branches exposed to windburn.
And as mentioned in the quote, all the dry branches were broken off, the ones that were not suitable were just left there.
Someone climbed the tree and systematically broke off the branches exposed to windburn, the dry branches were collected, the rest ignored.
If you're up a tree looking for dry branches, and the tree you're on has dry branches, why would you come down and look for another one? You'd just go a little higher and keep going right?

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General Discussion / Re: The Cedars.

« Last post by GlennM on July 02, 2025, 06:28:55 AM »

None show a fallen tree and disturbed ground. The tent was not pitched in the forest,  nor near the cedar tree.

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General Discussion / Re: Wood Expedition Theory

« Last post by SURI on July 02, 2025, 05:35:54 AM »

It was definitely not necessary to break branches up to 5 m high because of the fire. The purpose of breaking branches was different.

Those above needed shelter, those below used the branches as torches.

Atmanaki
”Most of the dry branches up to 5 m were broken. Beside this, the side of the tree facing the slope and the tent was completely cleared of branches. These were not dry; they were young and were not used. Some of them were just lying on the ground, and the others were hanging on the lower branches of the cedar. It looked as if someone had created a viewing hide facing the site from where they came.”

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General Discussion / Re: Wood Expedition Theory

« Last post by OLD JEDI 72 on July 02, 2025, 03:45:44 AM »

I’ve always thought the same thing about the branches. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to climb up a tree and snap off limbs when you could grab whatever was lying around, unless you look at the details in the reports. The investigators noted, “At the bottom of the ravine, a flooring of branches of fir and birch trees was discovered, and on top were fragments of clothing.” That’s not something you build fast if you’re already freezing to death unless you have a reason.

Rescuers said, “On the slope at the cedar were freshly broken limbs of about 2-3 cm thickness. The ends were torn and splintered. Some pieces were lying at the foot of the tree, others had been carried.” That right there tells you they weren’t just collecting wood for a fire. Those branches were used as tools.

Ivanov wrote, “The den appeared to be dug hastily, perhaps with improvised tools, hands, and footwear.” No shovel marks anywhere. Later forensic analysis confirmed, “No evidence of shovel marks. Snow removal was performed manually or with sticks.” That lines up exactly with what you’d expect if they were snapping branches to scrape out the snow and make a platform.

I’d also add that those same branches could have been used as clubs. People don’t like that idea because it sounds too dark, but if there was any kind of confrontation, it would make sense. Some of the injuries, like Rustem’s skull fracture, have been called out as proof of massive blunt force trauma, but it’s worth noting there was reportedly no major tissue damage over the fracture itself. That could easily be explained by a thick hat or padded hood absorbing the energy. You can hit someone hard enough to crack bone without leaving an obvious laceration if there’s a layer of insulation. It’s not unheard of in forensic cases. Same with Lydias and Zolos crushed ribs. Not necessarily caused by a beat down with sticks but a fall, which their coats protected from tissue damage.

This is why the simplest explanations often get ignored. They didn’t have to be overthinking it. They were just improvising because they had no other choice, and maybe trying to keep control of a situation that was falling apart.

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General Discussion / Re: Wood Expedition Theory

« Last post by ZuriDog on July 01, 2025, 10:00:46 PM »

My diffuculty with the descent to the woods theory is Otorten. If they could spend one cold night and then get to Ortoten, they would be in a better condition for the return trip.

 Sending someone on 1079 out in lousy conditions in snow and ice for a couple of miles, half of which was uphill speaks of remarkably poor planning and unnecessary risk taking for the comfort of those in the tent. After all, they did eat and they had their clothes. Nobody was going to die in that tent, all things considered. For me, what changed was a snow slide which impacted the tent and resulted in sufficient doubt of their safety.

There are parts of your theory that do fit nicely with the facts.

Traversing difficult terrain is what they were in for, and on that particular day the would have had the time and energy due to having set up camp early.
As for incentive - Though I haven't yet found an official statement of just how much wood was in the tent, I remember reading they had one log, that they had carried with them from their previous camp. If they had to carry wood it means they couldn't rely on it being readily available. They didn't just need wood for that night but possibly for their next camp as well. With the extra time available to them, and the nearby woods, a 3 km hike seems worth the effort. And yes half of it is uphill, but half of it is downhill.
Also, neither Zolotarev nor Tibo died of hypothermia, meaning they were both well equipped and prepared for the hike to the woods.

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General Discussion / Re: Wood Expedition Theory

« Last post by Ziljoe on July 01, 2025, 08:00:35 PM »

It was not necessary to climb to a height of 4-5 m to get firewood.

And yet... They did climb that tree, to a height of 4-5m, and broke branches off it. That is part of the evidence.

It makes sense to get fire wood from the ceder tree. The branches that are broken were probably the easiest to break, they would be the driest on the tree as they faced the wind which would have caused windburn etc.. . The ceder branches were reported to have been burned and the bodies were found on an insulation layer of gree branches . There would also be sap in the branches which would aid with starting a fire. 5 meters is not that high and it's especially not high if wood is needed .

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Maps and charts / Re: Brand spanking new Google map not.

« Last post by Ziljoe on July 01, 2025, 07:53:09 PM »

Someone must have noticed this or am I missing something.

As we (me) can clearly see the location of the bodies are back to front , as in Zina, Slobodin and Igor were going "up" the hill to the tent.

This hand drawn picture is from somewhere around the location of the tent . It looks down towards the ceder. Zina is the closest to the tent . The hill to  1079 is out of view and two the right of the picture . On the far right of the drawing we can see boot rock in the little formation . Hope that helps.

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General Discussion / Re: Wood Expedition Theory

« Last post by GlennM on July 01, 2025, 07:14:51 PM »

My diffuculty with the descent to the woods theory is Otorten. If they could spend one cold night and then get to Ortoten, they would be in a better condition for the return trip.

 Sending someone on 1079 out in lousy conditions in snow and ice for a couple of miles, half of which was uphill speaks of remarkably poor planning and unnecessary risk taking for the comfort of those in the tent. After all, they did eat and they had their clothes. Nobody was going to die in that tent, all things considered. For me, what changed was a snow slide which impacted the tent and resulted in sufficient doubt of their safety.

There are parts of your theory that do fit nicely with the facts.