July 23, 2021, 05:18:48 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

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1
General Discussion / Re: The devil is in the details
« Last post by Manti on Today at 09:38:13 AM »
Perhaps the three hikers found on the slope died on the way down, ie descending?

It is possible, but either way they were outside with some of their clothes left in the tent.

That we know for certain and it is hard to explain, whether they were descending or attempting to return to the tent or even if the tent was in the forest and a tree fell on it.. they could have still put on more clothes before attempting to ascend.

Rustem wearing one valenki only... not even carrying the other one. This hints at a very sudden exit from the tent, not even enough time to grab the other pair or their coats, and no immediate possibility to return. Even if the solution doesn't lie here, at least many scenarios can be ruled out based on this, and that the tent was still half-standing when found... you can basically rule out almost every single theory.
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General Discussion / The devil is in the details
« Last post by Monty on July 22, 2021, 11:39:33 AM »
Perhaps the three hikers found on the slope died on the way down, ie descending?
3
General Discussion / Re: The devil is in the details
« Last post by Investigator on July 21, 2021, 04:29:13 PM »
Any case with a lot of "moving parts," like the DPI, is likely to have things that are puzzling in some way.  In this case, because they were under time pressure to do what was necessary to survive, some decisions might not have been made if they had the opportunity to sit around for an hour debating it.  As to your specific quetions, the flashlight was likely left on top so that if they went back there during the night, they would be able to see crucial details, such as where to start digging out the tent.  We know three tried to get back there (or one or two did, and one or two tried to get them to come back, to go to the "den" instead).  And as to the coat in the hole, the most obvious explanation is that you aren't going to survive the night with no heat and a large hole in your tent under those conditions.  However, it could have been the hole the stove exhaust pipe went through.  It's also necessary to vent a tent under those conditions so that condensation does not occur; if it does, that would then ice up and could cause all kinds of major issues.
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Yeti / Snowman / Re: Menk Face...Zoomed in and clearly Simian
« Last post by RMK on July 18, 2021, 03:38:00 PM »
There are so many decisions the Dyatlov Group took that I don't understand... but one of them is not taking a gun with them.

We know from photos that they took shotguns on previous hikes.


The area of the incident is inhabited by bears, though they would have been hibernating, and moose. In my mind this is the main reason to take a gun... if a curious moose approaches, just shoot a warning shot into the air. This is the safest for both parties... the moose will leave you alone.

If you don't have a gun and meet a moose in the forest, you're in trouble.

There was a Mansi "chum" with moose antlers found nearby so we know there are moose in the area.
WAB once gave some remarks on the Dyatlovites' choice not to bring a gun with them, and he considered it a reasonable choice.  The thing is, the discussion in that thread was concerned with the danger of bears, not moose.  Dyatlov & Company wouldn't need a weapon to deal with bears, because the brown bear is dormant in late January & early February, and polar bears don't range that far south.

So, what about moose?  In the "Elk(s) attack" thread, it's suggested that perhaps moose were not regarded as a serious danger in late January & early February, since that's neither rutting season nor the time when cows would be defending young calves.  On the other hand, as that thread's OP reminds us, a wild animal might attack a human at any time.  I guess I can see the possible threat of moose as a reason why Dyatlov & Company might have wanted to bring a firearm with them.

It is widely believed that none of their possessions were stolen but.. is it possible that they actually did take a gun and it went missing?

I did read an article from a Russian newspaper saying that Igor did have a gun.  Obviously, this doesn't mean it was true.  I'll try and find it, but yes you're right, if you're heading off to the wilds inhabited by bears etc make sure you have a gun with you!

I do seriously doubt that Igor Dyatlov was carrying a firearm on his final trek.  If I correctly understand WAB in the first thread I linked, civilians (except those who hunted for a living) would only be able to obtain shotguns, or smooth-barrel long guns that fire small-caliber rifle rounds.  No such weapons are visible in any of the photos, nor mentioned in any diaries, nor documented as having been recovered from the scene of the Incident.  Such weapons are not easily concealed, either.

Might it have been a handgun?  From what I can tell, the Russian word used in that KP article, "ружье", refers to small arms in general (although input from a fluent Russian speaker would be welcome on that point), so that doesn't help to narrow down what type of weapon it might be.  I very much doubt that it was a handgun, though.  AFAIU, handguns were strictly controlled in that time and place, and there was no legitimate way an ordinary Soviet civilian could obtain one.

And if they did have a gun, it not only makes a Menk attack or animal attack an unlikely cause, it also provides a motive for another theory.... Guns must have been very hard to obtain and valuable at that time... Anyway, that's speculation for another thread.
Yeah, maybe we do need a separate thread to continue this line of discussion.
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Publications / Media / Re: Natasha Cooper - True Crime
« Last post by marieuk on July 18, 2021, 09:35:01 AM »
I only found this recently and it's really worth a listen, if you haven't already. Loved hearing how passionate you are about it and all the research that has gone into the book.  Pretty sure, there were some things I hadn't heard before too.  At the end it was mentioned about having another interview with a pathologist to go through the autopsies - is there any update on that please?  Sounds like a great idea. 
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Yeti / Snowman / Soviet Military & Menk Coverup
« Last post by americankevin on July 17, 2021, 03:23:51 PM »
Just posted this here in one of the other Yeti threads:

Thanks guys. Ill check out the article. For me it really comes down to their crushing/mpact injuries, the warnings of the Mansi, the hikers own writings about the Menk, the Menk photo and the removed tongue which we know was ripped out while she was still alive. Mansi said Menk ate deer tongue...which my tribe and many others do btw. But we cut it out. What human or Soviet soldier could rip out a human tongue and why would they? Especially when the victim was still alive? I heard some chatter that the older member who joined the expedition last minute could have been KGB. I really think its possible that the Soviets were indeed testing new munition technologies there. Its the perfect location due to a complete vaccum of humans at the "Mountain of the Dead" and "Don't Go There". Maybe the hikers had been intentionally allowed to go there by the USSR Government for some type of testing purposes?  Basically to see how 1) said technology would effect human subjects or to 2) have recorded uniformed observant testimonials to learn how such technology would be interpreted by an enemy. Thus a KGB guy was sent along to keep tabs. Ok, but what I think then happened is that the USSR Military/Gov couldn't even imagine that the stated reason why this area was never visited by the indigenous people (Mansi)...was actually real and not a myth. A tribe of very violent and territorial Menks really did live there. All this munition testing thus got them very riled up. So when they finally see some humans...it really pissed them off. Even then, perhaps the attack wouldn't have happened...if it hadn't been for the Military Munitions tests occuring while the hikers were a present. The ladt photos clearly show lights that could have been such tests. If the case, at that point...all bets were off. The Menk associated this violent testing activity...which they didn't understand...as being created by the Dyatlov 9. Mansi said those Menk killed people anyway when they entered that territory. But exploding munitions going off when the hikers were actually there lead to several of them being killed on the spot by the Menk.  BTW, the hikers were killed in the very manner that a massive ape/man primate creature would kill an enemy.  Crushing blows and powerful strikes. The other survivors not attacked directly by the Menks then died from exposure. If USSR Soldiers had violently killed the original 4 or 5...why would they then leave the rest alone for a considerable time to scavenge the dead and then freeze to death? Also does anyone really believe that little Mansi people on skis during horrible Ural weather or men from other locations...who also have been on skis...would be able to generate suck crushing blows? Why wouldn't humans just stab or shoot the hikers? The snow looked deep too. Have any of you guys ever ran in deep snow in extreme sub-zero temps as the wind was blowing...during complete night time darkness to boot? Im from South Dakota...one of the coldest places on Earth during the winter with horrible conditions. Im telling you now...humans on skis or on foot in snow couldn't generate the crushing force needed to kill these people. Shoot...its likely impossible for any human...under any weather conditions...to kill someone like that. As for the munitions doing it...did the corpses have shrapnel in them? Were there horrible external injuries that should align with such explosions? Im telling you...the Soviet Military realized Menks were real after this event, but of course couldn't reveal their technology or the fact that they may have intentionally sent young people there to basically be used/tested on. The Menk appears to me to be the most likely theory. And certain interests are determined that this theory not be investigated. Thus the failure for any real forensic study of the purported Menk photo ever being conducted...not even by Big Foot researchers. A gazillion high tech studies of the Patterson-Gimblin film..nada for the Dyatlov Menk photo. Why? Unlike Patterson-Gmblin...the Soviet Military was involved in events at Dyatlov Pass.
7
General Discussion / Soviet Military & Menk Coverup
« Last post by americankevin on July 17, 2021, 03:22:25 PM »
Just posted this in the Yeti thread:

Thanks guys. Ill check out the article. For me it really comes down to their crushing/mpact injuries, the warnings of the Mansi, the hikers own writings about the Menk, the Menk photo and the removed tongue which we know was ripped out while she was still alive. Mansi said Menk ate deer tongue...which my tribe and many others do btw. But we cut it out. What human or Soviet soldier could rip out a human tongue and why would they? Especially when the victim was still alive? I heard some chatter that the older member who joined the expedition last minute could have been KGB. I really think its possible that the Soviets were indeed testing new munition technologies there. Its the perfect location due to a complete vaccum of humans at the "Mountain of the Dead" and "Don't Go There". Maybe the hikers had been intentionally allowed to go there by the USSR Government for some type of testing purposes?  Basically to see how 1) said technology would effect human subjects or to 2) have recorded uniformed observant testimonials to learn how such technology would be interpreted by an enemy. Thus a KGB guy was sent along to keep tabs. Ok, but what I think then happened is that the USSR Military/Gov couldn't even imagine that the stated reason why this area was never visited by the indigenous people (Mansi)...was actually real and not a myth. A tribe of very violent and territorial Menks really did live there. All this munition testing thus got them very riled up. So when they finally see some humans...it really pissed them off. Even then, perhaps the attack wouldn't have happened...if it hadn't been for the Military Munitions tests occuring while the hikers were a present. The ladt photos clearly show lights that could have been such tests. If the case, at that point...all bets were off. The Menk associated this violent testing activity...which they didn't understand...as being created by the Dyatlov 9. Mansi said those Menk killed people anyway when they entered that territory. But exploding munitions going off when the hikers were actually there lead to several of them being killed on the spot by the Menk.  BTW, the hikers were killed in the very manner that a massive ape/man primate creature would kill an enemy.  Crushing blows and powerful strikes. The other survivors not attacked directly by the Menks then died from exposure. If USSR Soldiers had violently killed the original 4 or 5...why would they then leave the rest alone for a considerable time to scavenge the dead and then freeze to death? Also does anyone really believe that little Mansi people on skis during horrible Ural weather or men from other locations...who also have been on skis...would be able to generate suck crushing blows? Why wouldn't humans just stab or shoot the hikers? The snow looked deep too. Have any of you guys ever ran in deep snow in extreme sub-zero temps as the wind was blowing...during complete night time darkness to boot? Im from South Dakota...one of the coldest places on Earth during the winter with horrible conditions. Im telling you now...humans on skis or on foot in snow couldn't generate the crushing force needed to kill these people. Shoot...its likely impossible for any human...under any weather conditions...to kill someone like that. As for the munitions doing it...did the corpses have shrapnel in them? Were there horrible external injuries that should align with such explosions? Im telling you...the Soviet Military realized Menks were real after this event, but of course couldn't reveal their technology or the fact that they may have intentionally sent young people there to basically be used/tested on. The Menk appears to me to be the most likely theory. And certain interests are determined that this theory not be investigated. Thus the failure for any real forensic study of the purported Menk photo ever being conducted...not even by Big Foot researchers. A gazillion high tech studies of the Patterson-Gimblin film..nada for the Dyatlov Menk photo. Why? Unlike Patterson-Gmblin...the Soviet Military was involved in events at Dyatlov Pass.
8
Yeti / Snowman / Re: Menk Face...Zoomed in and clearly Simian
« Last post by americankevin on July 17, 2021, 03:20:57 PM »
Thanks guys. Ill check out the article. For me it really comes down to their crushing/mpact injuries, the warnings of the Mansi, the hikers own writings about the Menk, the Menk photo and the removed tongue which we know was ripped out while she was still alive. Mansi said Menk ate deer tongue...which my tribe and many others do btw. But we cut it out. What human or Soviet soldier could rip out a human tongue and why would they? Especially when the victim was still alive? I heard some chatter that the older member who joined the expedition last minute could have been KGB. I really think its possible that the Soviets were indeed testing new munition technologies there. Its the perfect location due to a complete vaccum of humans at the "Mountain of the Dead" and "Don't Go There". Maybe the hikers had been intentionally allowed to go there by the USSR Government for some type of testing purposes?  Basically to see how 1) said technology would effect human subjects or to 2) have recorded uniformed observant testimonials to learn how such technology would be interpreted by an enemy. Thus a KGB guy was sent along to keep tabs. Ok, but what I think then happened is that the USSR Military/Gov couldn't even imagine that the stated reason why this area was never visited by the indigenous people (Mansi)...was actually real and not a myth. A tribe of very violent and territorial Menks really did live there. All this munition testing thus got them very riled up. So when they finally see some humans...it really pissed them off. Even then, perhaps the attack wouldn't have happened...if it hadn't been for the Military Munitions tests occuring while the hikers were a present. The ladt photos clearly show lights that could have been such tests. If the case, at that point...all bets were off. The Menk associated this violent testing activity...which they didn't understand...as being created by the Dyatlov 9. Mansi said those Menk killed people anyway when they entered that territory. But exploding munitions going off when the hikers were actually there lead to several of them being killed on the spot by the Menk.  BTW, the hikers were killed in the very manner that a massive ape/man primate creature would kill an enemy.  Crushing blows and powerful strikes. The other survivors not attacked directly by the Menks then died from exposure. If USSR Soldiers had violently killed the original 4 or 5...why would they then leave the rest alone for a considerable time to scavenge the dead and then freeze to death? Also does anyone really believe that little Mansi people on skis during horrible Ural weather or men from other locations...who also have been on skis...would be able to generate suck crushing blows? Why wouldn't humans just stab or shoot the hikers? The snow looked deep too. Have any of you guys ever ran in deep snow in extreme sub-zero temps as the wind was blowing...during complete night time darkness to boot? Im from South Dakota...one of the coldest places on Earth during the winter with horrible conditions. Im telling you now...humans on skis or on foot in snow couldn't generate the crushing force needed to kill these people. Shoot...its likely impossible for any human...under any weather conditions...to kill someone like that. As for the munitions doing it...did the corpses have shrapnel in them? Were there horrible external injuries that should align with such explosions? Im telling you...the Soviet Military realized Menks were real after this event, but of course couldn't reveal their technology or the fact that they may have intentionally sent young people there to basically be used/tested on. The Menk appears to me to be the most likely theory. And certain interests are determined that this theory not be investigated. Thus the failure for any real forensic study of the purported Menk photo ever being conducted...not even by Big Foot researchers. A gazillion high tech studies of the Patterson-Gimblin film..nada for the Dyatlov Menk photo. Why? Unlike Patterson-Gmblin...the Soviet Military was involved in events at Dyatlov Pass.
9
Yeti / Snowman / Re: Menk Face...Zoomed in and clearly Simian
« Last post by Manti on July 17, 2021, 09:20:17 AM »
Thank you for the link! Interesting article indeed.

Although the difference in the weather reports can be explained I think with Maslennikov's being weather in Burmantovo which is not that close and not on a mountain, and the contemporary weather report estimating the temperatures on Kholat which will be naturally colder.

And if they did have a gun, it not only makes a Menk attack or animal attack an unlikely cause, it also provides a motive for another theory.... Guns must have been very hard to obtain and valuable at that time... Anyway, that's speculation for another thread.
10
Yeti / Snowman / Re: Menk Face...Zoomed in and clearly Simian
« Last post by marieuk on July 17, 2021, 05:51:22 AM »
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