1
Recent Posts
2
Murdered / Re: A problem with homicide theories
« Last post by Ziljoe on May 23, 2022, 03:16:15 PM »I think the snow can drift similar to desert sand . Depending on the wind strength , direction and temperature. There are reports of the exposed sides of trees having suffered peeling . If I understand it correctly it's like sand blasting. I agree with Manti that where the foot prints were found it must have been deeper at the time that the prints were made.
Depending on how the snow and wind fell
at the ravine, I believe that the snow could easily make a snow bridge . It happens in nature , the stream could still run free underneath any snow.
However, what is clear , is that there was a lot of snow at the ravine and den area. Wheather that happened before the incident or after is anyone's guess. But it does happen in nature and they can be some of the last snow to thaw. Especially if it has been hardened by compression. Again think of the snow after sliding off a roof of a house , it's stays hard on the ground. Similar to the snow left by snow ploughs at the side of the road.
Depending on how the snow and wind fell
at the ravine, I believe that the snow could easily make a snow bridge . It happens in nature , the stream could still run free underneath any snow.
However, what is clear , is that there was a lot of snow at the ravine and den area. Wheather that happened before the incident or after is anyone's guess. But it does happen in nature and they can be some of the last snow to thaw. Especially if it has been hardened by compression. Again think of the snow after sliding off a roof of a house , it's stays hard on the ground. Similar to the snow left by snow ploughs at the side of the road.
3
Murdered / Re: A problem with homicide theories
« Last post by Manti on May 23, 2022, 09:08:21 AM »There is some inherent inconsistency in what we know about snow conditions:
- The raised footprints that were found suggest that the amount of snow cover at the time of the incident was more than when the search started.
- At the same time, the "Ravine 4" being found on rocks under meters of snow, suggests either that there was less snow when they started sheltering there, and snow cover significantly increased after the incident, or that there was a lot of snow under them and it all melted by the time they were found, in which case snow in the "ravine" area would also have shifted significantly, downstream.
- Barely any snow on the two Yuris when found suggests that area was exposed to wind. Why would they try to light a fire there?
4
Murdered / Re: A problem with homicide theories
« Last post by Ziljoe on May 22, 2022, 02:41:15 PM »Not a problem Jean Daniel Reuss.
My English is bad. It should read , it does not mean 'they' were washed down with 'the' water of the stream.
I agree that the word "ravine" may not be suitable or infer some large canyon. However, they were found under a large mass of snow. Reports indicate that it was hard snow.
My English is bad. It should read , it does not mean 'they' were washed down with 'the' water of the stream.
I agree that the word "ravine" may not be suitable or infer some large canyon. However, they were found under a large mass of snow. Reports indicate that it was hard snow.
5
Murdered / Re: A problem with homicide theories
« Last post by Jean Daniel Reuss on May 22, 2022, 07:54:25 AM »Reply #76
........................................
it does not mean the were washed down with water of the stream. They chose a snow hole , snow bridge or cave that was already there.
......................................
Many thanks for having corrected my unforgivable mistake.
I do apologize, I had made a huge mistake in my translation.
I now understand that you mean that they abandoned the 4 branch beds (referred to as "the Den") to voluntarily relocate a few meters downstream in order to hide in a snow cave or big hole
(referred to as "the Ravine", despite the place being located in a tiny valley and not in a canyon)
which then collapsed on them.
In summary, I had mistakenly translated :
washed down with water of the stream
by: entrained downstream and properly cleaned by the water stream (and thus without trace of radiation).
6
Murdered / Re: A problem with homicide theories
« Last post by Игорь Б. on May 18, 2022, 07:35:39 PM »Another reason might be the presence of flowing water underneath the snow. Can the presence of flowing water modify the snow which is above ?
Настил находился от тел в 11 метрах выше по течению того же ручья. Снег над настилом был мягкий (видно на фотографии):
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=64622
Снег и должен быть мягким, если не было обрушения:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=89802
7
Murdered / Re: A problem with homicide theories
« Last post by Ziljoe on May 18, 2022, 06:00:50 PM »This indicates that the snow was different from the surrounding snow. One reason this snow might have been difficult to dig is if there had been a snow collapse.
Another reason might be the presence of flowing water underneath the snow. Can the presence of flowing water modify the snow which is above ?
Perhaps......but everything is perhaps regarding this case. 4 bodies under hard snow with 2 having collapsed ribs makes sense. If it were outsiders, why not try to hide them all?
8
Murdered / Re: A problem with homicide theories
« Last post by Charles on May 18, 2022, 10:47:45 AM »This indicates that the snow was different from the surrounding snow. One reason this snow might have been difficult to dig is if there had been a snow collapse.
Another reason might be the presence of flowing water underneath the snow. Can the presence of flowing water modify the snow which is above ?
9
General Discussion / Re: The cuts on tent simply doesn't make any sense
« Last post by Manti on May 17, 2022, 03:39:51 PM »About the cuts I have two theories
A.
The investigation was botched, evidence not collected with enough care. The cuts in this scenario are made by searchers' ice axes as they were digging out the tent.
Counterarguments: the cuts being apparently from the inside, however this might be a mistake of the person who examined the tent.
B.
Hypothermic hallucinations. The cuts were made by a member or members of the Dyatlov group, in a state of hypothermic delirium or paranoia which set in already in the tent. Remember that the tent was unheated, exposed to the wind on the slope that was compared to the speed of airflow from a jet engine. In this scenario, the group is already getting hypothermic on their ascent up Kholat. They see no other option but to set up the tent as some members can't continue, however, they fail to install the stove for some reason. Some members of the group are in more advanced hypothermia and start hallucinating and cut the tent. At this point the group leaves for the forest, their last hope is starting a campfire. Some succumb on the way.
Somewhat supporting this are the autopsies stating they died 6-8 hours after their last meal, and my recent readings about hypothermia victims among Mount Everest climbers, who in some cases took more than 8 hours to die after becoming immobile in similar temperatures and windchill.
A.
The investigation was botched, evidence not collected with enough care. The cuts in this scenario are made by searchers' ice axes as they were digging out the tent.
Counterarguments: the cuts being apparently from the inside, however this might be a mistake of the person who examined the tent.
B.
Hypothermic hallucinations. The cuts were made by a member or members of the Dyatlov group, in a state of hypothermic delirium or paranoia which set in already in the tent. Remember that the tent was unheated, exposed to the wind on the slope that was compared to the speed of airflow from a jet engine. In this scenario, the group is already getting hypothermic on their ascent up Kholat. They see no other option but to set up the tent as some members can't continue, however, they fail to install the stove for some reason. Some members of the group are in more advanced hypothermia and start hallucinating and cut the tent. At this point the group leaves for the forest, their last hope is starting a campfire. Some succumb on the way.
Somewhat supporting this are the autopsies stating they died 6-8 hours after their last meal, and my recent readings about hypothermia victims among Mount Everest climbers, who in some cases took more than 8 hours to die after becoming immobile in similar temperatures and windchill.
10
Murdered / Re: A problem with homicide theories
« Last post by Ziljoe on May 17, 2022, 03:07:32 PM »Hi Jean Daniel Reuss,
It will be my poor English.
The searchers found evidence from their probes to dig in the location of the ravine 4. On digging they found the snow was difficult to dig. They requested strong men to do the digging. This indicates that the snow was different from the surrounding snow. One reason this snow might have been difficult to dig is if there had been a snow collapse.
Because the ravine 4 were not found at the den with sticks , firs and clothes, it does not mean the were washed down with water of the stream. They chose a snow hole , snow bridge or cave that was already there.
Imagine 4 people taking shelter in a snow cave and a large amount of snow falls from above. What would happen to the bones in the body?
It will be my poor English.
The searchers found evidence from their probes to dig in the location of the ravine 4. On digging they found the snow was difficult to dig. They requested strong men to do the digging. This indicates that the snow was different from the surrounding snow. One reason this snow might have been difficult to dig is if there had been a snow collapse.
Because the ravine 4 were not found at the den with sticks , firs and clothes, it does not mean the were washed down with water of the stream. They chose a snow hole , snow bridge or cave that was already there.
Imagine 4 people taking shelter in a snow cave and a large amount of snow falls from above. What would happen to the bones in the body?