March 21, 2023, 06:50:24 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

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General Discussion / Re: Smashed bones
« Last post by Ziljoe on March 20, 2023, 09:52:09 AM »
Hi amashilu,

They had an ice ax, at least one, it is obvious.

Is it not Povetkin that is trying to discredit Sharavin?.

To say

We will not believe Sharavin and regard his memoirs as invented retroactively on our own initiative or on a tip from the outside.

Why don't we believe it? Simply because there was no ice ax in the Dyatlov group.

Sharavin himself has not been interrogated in the case, and his 2007 story can be safely assessed as a consequence of senile insanity.

How can Sharavin 's story be the consequence of senile insanity ?
General Discussion / Re: Smashed bones
« Last post by amashilu on March 20, 2023, 05:24:39 AM »
Hello Ziljoe,

Not sure what your point is. I think maybe you are attempting to discredit everything Povetkin says?

As we all know, there are varying reports and memories of just about everything, from the existence of the labaz, to how many skiis there were, to whether the tent was cut from the inside or the outside, to the ice axe, and the den, and just about everything else. I don't think your statement can be used to discredit Povetkin.

General Discussion / Re: Smashed bones
« Last post by Ziljoe on March 19, 2023, 04:52:28 PM »
Igor Povetkin says the following.

We will not believe Sharavin and regard his memoirs as invented retroactively on our own initiative or on a tip from the outside.

Why don't we believe it? Simply because there was no ice ax in the Dyatlov group. There is no ice ax in the inventory of the group's property available in the criminal case. The ice ax also does not appear in the protocols of inspections of the place where the tent was found, nor of the items inside. Sharavin himself has not been interrogated in the case, and his 2007 story can be safely assessed as a consequence of senile insanity.

There was an ax, ice ax. It's in several photos.  I'm working my way through his theory. He seems to miss some facts and is emotive.
General Discussion / Re: Edit button
« Last post by anna_pycckux on March 19, 2023, 10:40:24 AM »
кнопка не работает... кнопки нет..
the button does not work there is no button

General Discussion / Re: Zolotaryov and his brother
« Last post by anna_pycckux on March 19, 2023, 10:34:30 AM »
Genesis Chapter 4 "Am I my brother's keeper?"
Semyon Zolotarev is a front-line soldier, a medal-bearer who went through the whole war.  Killed in peacetime, in his younger years..
Underlined text on the screenshot (from the newspaper "KP"): Semyon's sisters even in those days said among themselves that he and other tourists were killed in the mountains.."

General Discussion / Zolotaryov and his brother
« Last post by MDGross on March 19, 2023, 08:04:51 AM »
Zolotartov's brother, Nikolay, was wounded in battle in 1942. After his release from the hospital, he returned to his home village. That region of Russia was overrun by the German army in 1943. Nikolay then served in his village's police unit under the local occupation administration. I'm not sure what his duties involved, but when the Russian army reclaimed the region some months later, Nikolay was charged with treason and executed in August 1943.

After the war, Zolotaryov applied to a couple of military schools, but was rejected. He then worked in various jobs in different towns and was "fired" from at least two of them. If he felt persecuted because of his brother, who could blame him. Perhaps he no longer felt any allegiance to the Soviet Union when he joined the Dyatlov group in 1959. Just speculation on my part. Perhaps he had the motivation to turn over secret documents to the CIA. But in this scenario, the KGB is tipped off and confronts the hikers on the slope of 1079. The tragic events followed.
General Discussion / Re: Smashed bones
« Last post by amashilu on March 17, 2023, 10:40:32 AM »
When trying to understand what might have happened, I always keep foremost in my mind the incredible severity of the injuries of the Ravine4. I don't believe anyone was injured at the tent because, given how badly disabled they would have been, they could not have walked for an hour afterwards. Something else happened at the tent, and then once they got down to the cedar area, the injuries took place. Here are 2 descriptions of them:

During the investigation, the forensic expert B.A. Vozrozhdenniy was questioned, who performed the autopsy of the bodies of the dead.
"I think the character of the injuries on Dubinina and Zolotaryov – a multiple fracture of the ribs – on Dubinina were bilateral and symmetrical, and on Zolotaryov were one-sided. Both had hemorrhaging into the cardiac muscle with hemorrhaging into the pleural cavity, which is evidence of them being alive [when injured] and is the result of the action of a large force... These injuries, especially appearing in such a way without any damage to the soft tissue of the chest, are very similar to the type of trauma that results from the shock wave of a bomb." (Case files 382)

Thibeaux-Brignolle could have received a blow to the temple with a hard blunt object with a limited surface - he had a depressed fracture of the right temporal parietal bone in a 9x7 cm area with a defect in bone tissue and temporal bone measuring 3x3.5x2 cm.In the cranial fossa there is a multifragmented fracture of the right temporal bone with divergence and transition of the bone crack into the anterior cranial fossa to the right supraorbital region of the frontal bone and a 17 cm long crack in the base of the skull."
Now, of course, it can be assumed that such a fracture can be obtained by falling and hitting his head on the stones. But in his case Thibeaux-Brignolle had to take himself by the legs and pound his own head on these very stones with a fury. - Igor Povetkin

General Discussion / Re: Smashed bones
« Last post by Ziljoe on March 17, 2023, 09:00:54 AM »
Sorry winterleia, nothing was directed at you ,it was general to a few comments.

We know from other researchers/ investigators that it is possible to walk down the slope from the tent to ceder and ravine in socks. We also know from the video clip that it's possible to fashion some sort snow hole with a stick and that snow holes/bridges exist and occur at the ravine.

I suspect some of the videos are filmed in day light so the viewer can see what's going on.

The data for the weather conditions vary considerably depending on who we listen to. Warm front to cold.

Small spruce trees can be cut with a small knife , there was at least one Knife recorded .

We don't know if the incident took place at night. We have the food being eaten so this could be evening or morning at a guess.

Whatever made them leave the tent must have been serious enough to make the decision that the forest was better. It is there they have to survive.

I'm not sure if the window at the ceder is a fact. In was an observation , the branches that were broken were used for burning and the window area on the ceder was the weathered side of the tree. These branches would be dryer.

There is debate about the Mansi chum for example, it is suggested that it's how they store wood for burning when making a stop. They are put vertical and exposed to the wind.

I agree about Igor Rustem and Zina, I can't understand why they would carry on without helping each other. That's one thing I can't fathom other than extreme cold .

I also agree that outsiders doesn't mean murder and that any of the scenarios can overlap..

An avalanche can occur at 20 degrees given the right condtions. It doesn't need to be a full blown avalanche to make them leave the tent, the hikers just need to think it was.

Anyway, I do think that a snow collapse above where  the ravine 4 are located is the most likely explanation for the fractures.  We have compacted snow above them, they are lying on a hard surface, the actual location of the 4 bodies also lends itself to be the natural location of an entrance to a snow cave/ bridge. There is the small waterfall and drop. As the winter season progressed , the water fall and dip would prevent snow accumulation, or at least , slow the process as compared to flat areas of the stream. I do however think they would have had insulation under them.

General Discussion / Re: Smashed bones
« Last post by WinterLeia on March 17, 2023, 08:06:06 AM »
To begin with, I never said they couldn’t walk down a slope. So I’m not sure what that comment is aimed at. Nor do I believe they did not dig the snow den. My comment was in regard to the assumption that the snow was of a consistency that it could break human bones while still being a fairly localized event, considering the fact that it certainly wouldn’t be like a large avalanche you might get in the alps where it just sweeps up anything in its path. I do not believe that they’re having to dig out a snow den, with a stick or otherwise, supports that scenario, considering everything else they had to contend with, which I listed in my post. Furthermore, whatever happened at the tent has to account for, not only the fact that they left the tent, but also for why they didn’t go back to it. Why was digging out a snow den a better alternative than simply returning to the tent? The “window” in the cedar proves that they did know where the tent was, and the only reason to climb it, which at least one of them did, is to see the tent. To be sure, if it was a slab avalanche, perceived or otherwise, they might have feared a repeat performance. We know, though, there wasn’t one. So how long would they would have waited around, underdressed and freezing, while nothing happened. Until they were so far gone with exhaustion and hypothermia that they just fell and died where they lay in a desperate attempt to get back to the tent, like what happened to Igor, Rustem, and Zina. That seems highly improbable to me.

And it is correct that it had to be outsiders or environment. But that doesn’t mean outsiders or avalanche. Nor do outsiders necessarily mean they were murdered. And, yes, process of elimination is a great way to get to the bottom of the mystery. Unfortunately, very few scenarios in this case have been eliminated. The avalanche theory has its problems the same as all theories do. That is likely because we not only are missing pieces of the puzzle, but also have pieces that are not part of the puzzle  at all, and there is no way for us to know that.

I will just end by saying that I don’t personally find the avalanche theory all that compelling. But if it is the answer, then it fits the facts a lot better that Semyon and Luda’s injuries were caused by a slab avalanche at the tent rather than the den, even though there’s some logistic problems with that scenario.
General Discussion / February 2 storm
« Last post by Osi on March 14, 2023, 12:50:44 PM »
3 people trying to reach the tent; 1] Did they plan to provide logistics (boots, clothing, food, medicine, matches, blankets) support to 6 people in distress in the forest? 2]There was no longer any possibility of life in the jungle and the only way out was to reach the tent? Transporting life support materials from the tent to the forest seems unlikely under these physical conditions. As for the facts that I believe are certain in this case by looking at the picture; 1] The tent was set up in 1079. 2] All 6 people in the forest died and the other 3 people were moved to the tent after these deaths. 3] They gave up halfway before they could reach the tent because they had spent all their energies on keeping 6 people alive in the forest. 4]There was a snowstorm. Rustem flew and hit his head on the rock. He was sweating profusely and could not go further. The snow buried him alive and his body heat melted the snow. 5] Weather reports are not reassuring locally, at least for that area. Because when the seekers found Yuri 2, they were supposed to see the faded footprints of the 3 people heading towards the tent, but they couldn't. Snow covered both 3 people and their footprints. The weather must have changed suddenly at night. When the katabatic wind that started to blow down the hill started to tilt the tent; Zolatoov and Tibo must have come out with a flashlight each to strengthen the tent. Rustam must have put on one of his boots to go to help. Zolo left the lantern on the tent while designing the tent. As Tibo held a lantern, the wind raged and threw him to the ground. Semyon must have chased after him and made a distress call to the tent. The occupants left the sheltered tent area to assist in the distress call, disregarding the blowing effect of the wind. Rustem, Lyu, Zolo, Tibo kolove were severely injured in this strong wind and dragged into the forest. The most sheltered place in the forest must be the deep floor of the valley. They kept them in the pit until the fire burned. There is no abyss in the valley where you can fall. Even if you do fall, it will be nothing more than a good fun accident. The idea that the three of them who went to the forest fell into the pit started to seem funny to me too.
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