February 09, 2025, 11:02:55 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Recent Posts

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10
1
General Discussion / Re: Inconsistencies in photos of finding the tent
« Last post by Arjan on Today at 10:57:58 AM »
@Ziljoe

I have found a source for Mansi living in winter resorts, while being semi-nomadic in late spring, summer and autumn.
The Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansi_people states:
 
Traditional livelihood
The Mansi were semi-nomadic hunters and fishermen. Some Mansi also raised reindeer. A few Mansi engaged in agriculture (cultivating barley) and raised cattle and horses.[14]

During the winter, the Mansi lived in stationary huts made out of earth and branches at permanent villages. During the spring, the Mansi moved towards hunting and fishing grounds, where they constructed temporary rectangular-shaped shelters out of birch bark and poles


Looking at Google maps, I would not be amazed if Ushma had far less inhabitants than in wintertime.
If the group might not have noted Ushma, Ushma had highly likely noted this group of travellers.

Without any other source of 'recreation', very probably the Mansi had looked at the group passing by, or even taking a long break while gathering the long lists of Mansi words in the diaries.

It makes sense.

The long list of Mansi words without getting in touch with Mansi, does not make sense.
2
General Discussion / Re: Inconsistencies in photos of finding the tent
« Last post by Arjan on Today at 10:31:48 AM »
@Suri (and others)

Let's start a thought experiment while assuming that the timeline of the last two days - as I have included in a pdf-file in a separate post - is correct.

9:00 am Zinaida and Rustem walk from the tent site to the ravine adequately clothed - both wearing a pair of felt shoes - to the ravine

After some 100 meters both encounter and icy surface: both take of their felt shoes and continue on socks while carrying their felt shoes in one hand

Some distance later both encounter a snow surface again (the band where Rustem had lost consciousness for the last time in his life around 1500 pm the same day).
Remark: Rustem had been found with his face covered with a so-called ice-bed.

At the beginning of this snow surface, both had put their felt shoes on again (wool isolates rather well even when being wet)

9:30 am both had found four lifeless bodies in the den/ ravine: the ravine had been icy due to the pressure wave. Both had taking of their felt shoes before entering the ravine.
They had placed/positioned the bodies in postures as found by the second search party.
While trying to lift Lyudmila out of the ravine, Rustem had slipped and fallen head down in the ravine, resulting in a crack in his skull.

During this work, they had left their felt shoes apart.

They had carried their felt shoes while moving to the cedar, and both had placed both Yuri's next to each other.

Zinaida and Rustem had taken only one felt shoe and walked to a snow area again.
During these very traumatic activities three felt shoes had got lost.

Returning to the snow surface, Rustem had put one felt shoe on.
They had found Igor and both had carried him a small distance.

15:00 pm Rustem collapsed and died due to brain damage (see pdf-file for being turned face down by Zinaida)

Following this thought experiment, does it make sense that three felt shoes get lost while finding seven other dead group members?

Illogic: no.
Full sound proof: no as well.
But it makes sense in my opinion.
3
General Discussion / Re: Inconsistencies in photos of finding the tent
« Last post by SURI on Today at 08:02:12 AM »
Arjan, that still doesn't explain why Slobodin only had one shoe. Going with only one shoe is illogical.
4
General Discussion / Re: Inconsistencies in photos of finding the tent
« Last post by Ziljoe on Today at 07:48:59 AM »
To add, I'm aware that other tourists were entertained at some of these little groups of Mansi huts. I too dable in the FS but haven't for a while. I have flown in real life in small planes and I would not fly low and expect to climb, particularly in closed valleys where any stall or turbulence could occur. Experienced that at 3000ft in good weather over the top of a mountain. The plane can drop .
5
General Discussion / Re: Inconsistencies in photos of finding the tent
« Last post by Ziljoe on Today at 07:29:00 AM »
@ Arjan . Again many thanks.

I don't agree with the photos being manipulated at this point.

There were several settlements of Mansi called villages. Ushma maybe being one but I think it was like 4 huts?. Why would they go there?
6
General Discussion / Re: Inconsistencies in photos of finding the tent
« Last post by Arjan on Today at 07:25:49 AM »
Sorry, problems with refreshing browser
7
General Discussion / Re: Inconsistencies in photos of finding the tent
« Last post by Arjan on Today at 07:22:52 AM »
Sorry, problems with browser
8
General Discussion / Re: Inconsistencies in photos of finding the tent
« Last post by Arjan on Today at 07:21:16 AM »
@Ziljoe @GlennM @Suri

Ushma is a settlement where the river 'Reka Ushma' merges with the 'Reka Lozva'.

Many of us assume that the Dyatlov group had followed the Reka Lozva instead of turning left to the Reka Ushma.

The next screenprint of Google maps shows that it is unavoidable to at least note Ushma while travelling along the Reka Lozva.
 


I am pretty certain that the winter population of Ushma had differ from the summer population: in wintertime more Mansi may have stayed in Ushma.

Personally I have been triggered by Ushma, because in 2020 I wished to explore the scenery with MS Flight Simulator 2020.
The only quick manner to find this scenery on the map in MS Flight Simulator was looking for Ushma; Vizhay, Ivdel did pop up only after zooming many times more.

While exploring the scenery by air, I had been alerted by the steepness of the ascend from the storage to the tent site, because I have crashed a few times with a lightwing airplane because it could not climb fast enough in the valley at the end of the river/stream near the storage.
Studying the maps available on Dyatlovpass.com showed that the ascend from the storage in the direction to the tentsite was some 30 % over a distance of 1 km. A lightwing airplane is not able to do so.

Walking on socks
Within my timeline, the group member - except Semyon, Lyudmila and Thibo - had descended to the ravine cedar on socks, because part of the surface between the tent site and cedar/ravine had been icy (caused by the pressure wave melting the snow that had refrozen as ice).

Remark: Within this timeline:
- Semyon, Lyudmila and Thibo had descended before the pressure wave had hit the area. Semyon and Thibo had been found with footware different from socks.
- Lyudmila had been standing next to the stream to clean herself
- the three had descended for running water and firewood to be brought back to the tent site.

Three sources support the icy surface between the tent site and the ravine/cedar:
- the photo in question from the tentsite: some 50 meters below starts a band with hardly any snow
- if I remember well, a member of the search party had stated that the stone band between the tent site and ravine had been icy. He assumed that the group member may well have slided downhill, to be injured while being stopped by stones
- Zinaida in the mortuary with natural fibers affixed to her trousers. As explanation for lying down on a thin layer of ice with natural fibers that had melted by her body temperature still around 25 degrees Celsius, while the natural fibers had been refrozen affixed to her trousers.

The group member did not have crampons with them, so they had walked on socks.
Quote from a Newpaper article in "The Guardian":
"Wearing socks over footwear significantly reduced the self-reported slipperiness of icy footpaths and a higher proportion of sock-wearers displayed confidence in descending the study slopes. The only falls occurred in people who were not wearing (external) socks."
See: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/mar/09/improbable-research-icy-socks-over-shoes#:~:text=This%20one%20did.,wearing%20(external)%20socks.%22





9
General Discussion / Re: Inconsistencies in photos of finding the tent
« Last post by SURI on Today at 05:22:25 AM »
I think everyone had different reasons for not having shoes. Some didn't have time (Slobodin), some didn't need them (Dyatlov, Kolmogorova), others didn't consider it necessary for various reasons. And then it was no longer possible.
10
General Discussion / Re: Inconsistencies in photos of finding the tent
« Last post by SURI on Today at 03:06:24 AM »
If they couldn't put on their shoes even though they wanted to (see Slobodin), then you see that this timeline has cracks and it couldn't have happened this way.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10