Recent Posts

1

Zolotaryov's meltdown / Zolotaryov's knife

« Last post by Axelrod on Today at 01:23:01 AM »

This topic originally came up on Facebook, I even wrote a comment there. But after my comment I received 2 calls on my smartphone. I use my smartphone only as a camera, without any other activity, but my Facebook login is linked to that number. I haven't received any calls on my phone for 2 years, until I created a new account in Facebook.


That's why I'm answering here, I don't want unnecessary calls. I found a causal link with Facebook (which is considered a terrorist organization in Russia), it remains to find a link in other places.



Theodora asks:
How do you know it belonged to the Dyatlov group? Why Zolotaryov?
Her previous text:
Jan 28, 1959, leaving 2nd Northern. Dubinina, Zolotaryov, and Kolmogorova cleaning their skis with knives. In this photo we can't really see the make of the knives used, most probably Dubinina and Kolmogorova had penknives. Zolotaryov's knife is hanging on a lanyard from his pocket. None of these knives were ever found, not in the tent, not on the bodies, not in the ravine.
𝗞𝗡𝗜𝗩𝗘𝗦 𝗥𝗘𝗣𝗢𝗥𝗧𝗘𝗗 𝗙𝗢𝗨𝗡𝗗 𝗜𝗡 𝗖𝗔𝗦𝗘 𝗙𝗜𝗟𝗘𝗦

Yes, in the photo there is wine on the rope with which the knife is tied to the pocket. My father tied his keys this way.
I gave a link to a video with Yuri Yudin in the ravine (summer 2009)


Sasha Kan thinks that this is Dubinina's knife, because Dubinina was found in that place. But Sasha Kan is very straightforward. I think that Zolotaryov was also nearby. Perhaps, when Zolotaryov was pulled out, the rotten rope with the knife broke, and the knife remained.
The previous item could be this item (presumably):
https://reibert.info/lots/drosselirujuschaja-vtulka-s-nasadkoj-dlja.189163/
There is evidence from Vladimirov about the launch of signal flares.



There is an assumption from somebody - that Dubinina and Kolmogorova are also holding knives in their hands. I think that the author of this idea is a fan of bladed weapons, and I am not such a fan.
I think it's a piece of soap, according to Dubinina's last line in the diary.

This photograph raises many questions. The first thought is that Zolotaryov has not yet decided on his sympathy, Dubinin and Kolmogorov. We will see the result of his choice later.
The second thought is about wooden poles with crossbars. My first thought was that these are poles for telephone wires. Yes, 50 meters away we see other such poles. But why three poles next to each other is unclear. I think that the craftsman dealt with telephone poles, and these poles were made according to the same scheme. Perhaps the poles were simply made extra.


Different versions can be built. Perhaps there is a version that Dubinina gave the diary to Yudin (as a keepsake), because the scene of farewell to Yudin is later in the photographs.



And Dubinina's diary is missing in the protocol of the tent discovery.

If Dubinina used a pencil instead of a knife, she could have broken the pencil and could not have filled out her diary on the hike.

2

General Discussion / Re: TV-Viewer's opinion

« Last post by GlennM on November 18, 2024, 06:00:49 AM »

The DPI has become a tourist destination and a social media circus. There are only three reasons to be involved in it. They are (1) to learn (2) to have fun (3) to make money.

You will eventually (1) learn what everybody else knows. This knowledge will challenge you. Is it both valid and reliable? You will (2) have fun through intelligent discussion and friendly exchange. This is also diffucult. Once a point of view is chosen, it becomes a measure of your intelligence and nobody enjoys being thought of as stupid. Ad hominem attacks can and do happen when fun stops being fun. Finally (3) you observe that the DPI has been commercialized. Authors, and internet media influencers have their hands out. Too, actual travel for research and experience drain the bank account. Many forum contributors are earning revenue this way.

With an understanding and appreciation of these three reasons, you can participate in the topic without becoming consumed by it. Creating and solving mysteries can become a drug.  Caveat emptor.

3

General Discussion / TV-Viewer's opinion

« Last post by Axelrod on November 18, 2024, 03:17:50 AM »

   
[–] I thought for a long time whether I should get involved in this squabble that is happening around the dead guys at Dyatlov Pass in the Northern Urals. As a TV viewer, I watched the channels of many bloggers who looked at this tragedy from all sides. Unfortunately, it does not leave the TV screens.

There are bloggers who put forward their versions, somehow explained this case, they discard something, take something as a basis, and left... But there are bloggers who have latched onto this topic and can't get off it, and do not want to leave, they are trying to prove something. You start watching them. I am mainly talking about the channel "First Video Forum". Everyone is delighted: how deep it digs! But you start watching this video, it is impossible to understand the logic there. Everything is mixed up. Khrushchev is there, gold is there, radiation is there, a rocket is there! At first I watched this case, but then I realized that the man had a completely different goal. At first there was a wallet where viewers had to throw money to develop the channel. But then he seemed to understand that this was not normal, and he removed the wallet. Guys, you can't mock the ashes of innocent murdered guys like that! We have to stop somehow.

I found out, like everyone else, when the Internet appeared, YouTube, bloggers appeared who began to tell this information. Then I started watching different channels, different views on how the events took place there. In 1959, I was in the sixth grade. How much time has passed! More than 60 years! The forest there has probably grown differently, everything has changed. How can you find anything there now? But some people climb with a mine detector and find some tin cans there.

I want to express my opinion, I'll start with the tent. I had a similar tent, but made of fabric. We went to the forest, to the sea with this tent... Placing 10 people and their things in an 8-person tent is, of course, a problem. There is no room for a stove in the tent. And I can't imagine. Honestly, you should be given a medal for one night like that. When a person sleeps in such a tent, with a stove above you, you need to not breathe in carbon monoxide, you need to make sure everyone doesn't burn, and you need to not freeze.

Could the guys have put up a tent in that stupid place on the slope? I think they could have put up a tent in that place only under the barrel of a machine gun. They are normal people. The next day they need water and a fire. How could you spend the night in this tent in winter? I think the guys initially pitched the tent in the cedar area. I can't say who moved it there later. But it's impossible to dry out with that stove in the tent. I don't think the guys pitched the tent there. But if they did, it was only under threat of fire.

Now about the flooring. It's a pile of fir trees or fir tree tops. Did anyone wonder how they chopped up these fir trees? And for what purpose? They wouldn't have been able to chop up that many fir trees with Krivonischenko's knife. This is the flooring for the tent! The ground is cold, there are no mats, no sleeping bags. And the flooring made of fir trees somehow distances you from the ground. Maybe that's where the tent was. And then someone dragged these trees into a pile, threw clothes into it, making it look like tourists were sitting on this pile.

About the scorched trees. I think that this happened, of course, not in winter, and the trees were scorched in summer. It was a thunderstorm. An ordinary lightning struck and scorched these trees. If there had been a rocket there, that would have been a problem. Heptyl is a liquid, but for some reason bloggers call it gas. If there had been a spill of heptyl there, but none of that happened. Well, let's say the rocket stage was immediately taken away by helicopter, but a hole from the explosion should have remained. None of that happened.

How can you believe in the yeti, I can't even imagine. Many bloggers have this version. They think that the yeti exists there in one copy. He is probably eternal. But we know that everything in this world has a beginning and an end. There must be a male Yeti and a female Yeti, and somewhere there must be snow children. What do they eat, where do they live? Do they have some kind of cave? A hut or a den? They don't talk about that. But there is a Yeti in the photographs. How can we believe all that?

Now about Yudin. Why did Yudin leave? When we see the photographs where Yudin says goodbye to the guys, everyone rejoices! Why? Because putting 10 people into a tent that is designed for 8 people is a difficult task! Yudin leaves and is happy that he won't have to spend the night in this tent. And the guys are happy that there is extra space.

I don't support any version of how it happened there. But I agree that it was a murder. They are trying to prove to us that there was a Snow Slab there. This is all done to hide the traces of the crime. If Snow Slab or an Avalanche had been there, it would have knocked down the tent. But the tent is still standing. How can this be? How can you even believe this?

The guys' injuries are all so different... No one shot or cut them, but they were all killed.

How can you believe that the guys ran out of the tent barefoot? They ran a long way there, their feet are intact, but their hands were injured in a fight when they were defending themselves. If anyone believes that you can run such a distance in socks, go outside in winter, take off your shoes, walk 15 meters and see what happens to your feet? Will you be able to walk more than 10 meters? If anyone believes that you can cut so many trees with one knife, then take a tree after the New Year and try to cut off at least one piece. How long will you have to pick at it?

I want to say that the guys were definitely killed! Where it happened, here near the cedar or somewhere else, it is essentially unimportant. But I certainly agree with the conclusions that the authorities are involved. Because if these were some kind of bandits or anything else, the case would have been solved, everyone would have been found and punished. It was impossible to hide! The Mansi hunters saw ski tracks, but it is better to remain silent and not be guilty.

I am especially irritated by the one-sided, one-sided videos. One says that the cadaveric spots are in the wrong place, and the cadaveric spots should be like this. But he is not at all interested in where they got there, in that stream? Where did so many fir trees come from? And there are many other tricks there... But they take a certain moment and say: I think that it was like this. And everything else that happened there does not interest them!

One of the searchers thinks and says that they were poisoned by gas from a fallen rocket. I don’t remember the name now. But the thing is that the injuries sustained there – crushed chests, punctured heads, frostbite, burnt bodies – no one is interested in that anymore. So if you've decided to cover this tragedy, then take everything you have and answer all the questions. How did people end up in the stream? But their legs are intact. What were they doing in the stream? Did they come to drink some water or something? They had to shovel the snow with their bare hands and bring it. water. No one explains that. And there are a lot of such questions that have no answers.

What's my conclusion? I haven't looked at everything yet, but I've looked at a lot. I want to say that 60 years have passed, and this secret should remain a secret for these bloggers. Because if this secret is revealed, then the interest will be lost. Do they need it? No! The entire interest of the bloggers who revolve around this topic is in finding an answer. And if the secret is revealed, then the interest will be lost. Therefore, the process of searching for the discovery of this secret – I do not know how long it will continue... But I feel sorry for these innocently killed guys. Their ashes will not be left alone, so that they could be there peacefully.

This is my opinion, the opinion of an ordinary TV viewer. I will not reveal any secret to you, I am simply expressing my opinion. I want to wish everyone well. Be healthy! This is not the first and not the last group that died on hiking trips. Wherever you go, you must be careful. The mountains do not forgive such offenses.



Мнение телезрителя
   
[–] Я долго думал, стоит ли мне ввязываться в эти дрязги, которые происходят вокруг погибших ребят на перевале Дятлова на Северном Урале. Как телезритель я посмотрел каналы многих блогеров, которые рассматривали эту трагедию со всех сторон. К сожалению, она с экранов телевизора не уходит.

Есть блогеры, которые выдвинули свои версии, каким-то образом это дело объяснили, что-то они отбрасывают, что-то берут за основу, и ушли... Но есть блогеры, которые вцепились в эту тему и никак с неё слезть не могут, и не хотят уходить, что-то пытаются доказать. Ты начинаешь их смотреть. Я в основном говорю про канал "Первый видеофорум". Все восторгаются: как глубоко он копает! Но начнёшь смотреть это видео, там невозможно понять логику. Всё перемешано. Там и Хрущёв, там и золото, там и радиация, там и ракета! Я вначале смотрел это дело, но потом понял, что цель у человека совсем другая. Вначале там был кошелёк, куда нужно было денежки для развития канала бросать. Но потом он вроде понял, что это ненормально, и кошелёк убрал. Ребята, нельзя же так измываться над прахом невинно убиенных ребят! Надо как-то остановиться.

Я узнал, как все, когда появился Интернет, YouTube, появились блогеры, которые начали рассказывать эту информацию. Потом я начал смотреть разные каналы, разные взгляды на то, как происходили там события. В 1959 году я был в шестом классе. Сколько времени прошло! Больше 60 лет! Там уже, наверно, лес вырос другой, всё изменилось. Как можно сейчас что-то там найти? Но некоторые лазают с миноьискателм, находят там какие-то консервные банки.

Я хочу высказать своё мнение, начну с палатки. У меня была похожая палатка, но тканевая. Мы с этой палаткой ездили в лес, на море... Поместить 10 человек и вещи в 8-местную палатку - это, конечно, пробелма. Места для печки в палатке нет. И я не представляю. За одну такую ночёвку, честно говоря, медаль надо давать. Когда человек спит в такой палатке, печка над тобой, надо угарным газом не надышаться, надо чтобы все не сгорели, и надо не замёрзнуть.

Могли ли ребята поставить палатку в этом дурацком месте на склоне? Я считаю, они могли поставить палатку в том месте только под дулом автоматов. Они нормальные люди. На следующий день нужна вода, костёр. Как можно было зимой ночевать в этой палатке? Я думаю, что ребята первоначально поставили палатку в районе кедра. Кто её потом туда перенёс, я не могу сказать. Но высушиться с помощью той печки в палатке невозможно. Я считаю, что ребята эту палатку там не ставили. Но если они и ставили, то только под угрозой оружия.

Теперь про настил. Это куча ёлок или верхушек от ёлок. Задавался кто-то целью, каким методом они нарубили этих ёлочек? И для чего? При помощи ножа Кривонищенко нарезать такое количество ёлочек они бы не смогли. Это настил под палатку! Земля холодная, ковриков нет, спальников нет. А настил из ёлок как-то отдаляет от земли. Возможно, там палатка и стояла. А потом кто-то стащил эти ёлочки в кучу, набросал туда одежды, сделав имитацию, что туристы сидели на этой куче.

Про обожжённые деревья. Я считаю что это произошло, конечно, не зимой, а ёлки были обожжены летом. Это гроза. Обыкновенная молния ударила и обожгла эти ёлки. Если бы там ракета была, там бы было дело. Гептил - это жидкость, но блогеры почему-то называют его газом. Если бы там был разлит гептил - но этого ничего не было. Ну, допустим, ступень ракеты вертолётом сразу увезли, но яма от взрыва должна была остаться. Ничего этого нет.

Как можно верить в снежного человека, я вообще не представляю. У многих блогеров эта версия присутствует. Они считают, что снежный человек существует там в одном экземпляре. Он, наверное, вечный. Но мы же знаем, что всё в этом мире имеет начало и конец. Должны быть Снежный человек – мужчина и Снежный человек – женщина, где-то должны быть снежные дети. Чем они питаются, где они живут? у них пещера какая-то? шалаш или берлога? Об этом они не говорят. Но вот есть снежный человек на фотографиях. Как можно в это всё верить?

Теперь про Юдина. Почему ушёл Юдин? Когда мы видим фотоснимки, где Юдин прощается с ребятами, то радуются все! Почему? Потому что поместить в палатку 10 человек, которая рассчитана на 8 человек, это задача сложная! Юдин уходит и радуется, что ему не придётся ночевать в этой палатке. А ребята радуются что лишнее место освободилось.

Я не поддерживаю никакую версию того, как это там произошло. Но то, что это было убийство, я с этим согласен. Нам пытаются доказать, что там была Снежная доска. Это всё сделано, чтобы скрыть следы преступление. Если бы там была Снежная доска или Ловина, то она бы снесла палатку. Но палатка стоит на месте. Как такое может быть? Как в такое можно вообще поверить?

Травмы у ребят все такие разные... Никто там не стрелял, не резал, но всех их убили.

Как можно поверить в то, что ребята выбежали из палатки босиком? Они пробежали там сколько расстояния, ноги целые, а руки пострадали при драке, когда они оборонялись. Если кто-то если верит, что в носках можно пробежать такое расстояние, выйдите на улицу зимой, снимите обувь, пройдите 15 метров и посмотрите, что с вашими ногами будет? Сможете ли вы дальше 10 метров пройти? Если кто-то верит, что одним ножом можно нарезать такое количество ёлjк, то возьмите ёлку после Нового года и попробуйте хотя бы один кусок отрезать. Cколько вы будете ковыряться?

Я хочу сказать, определённо ребята были убиты! Где это произошло, здесь около кедра или в каком-то другом месте, это по сути дела неважно. Но то, что здесь замешаны власти, то с такими выводами я, конечно, согласен. Потому что, если бы это были какие-то бандиты или всё прочее, то дело было бы раскрыто, всех бы нашли и наказали. Скрыть было невозможно! Охотники манси видели следы лыж, но лучше промолчать и не быть виноватым.

Меня особенно раздражают односторонние, однобокие ролики. Один говорит, что трупные пятна не в том месте, а трупные пятна должны вот так. Но его совершенно не интересует, откуда они вообще туда попали, в тот ручей? Откуда столько ёлок? И других фокусов там много... Но они берут какой-то момент и говорят: я думаю, что это было так. А всё остальное, что там происходило, их не интересует!

Один из поисковиков считает и рассказывает, что они отравились газом от упавшей ракеты. Название я сейчас не помню. Но дело в том, что травмы, которые получены там - раздавленные грудные клетки, пробитая голова, обморожения, обожжённые тела - это уже никого не интересует. То есть взялись освещать эту трагедию, то беритесь всё, что есть, и отвечайте на все вопросы. Как люди попали в ручей? Но ноги остались целые. А что они делали в ручье? Они пришли водички попить, что ли? Это надо было голыми руками разгрести снег и принести. воду.. Никто этого не объясняет. И таких вопросов, на которые нет ответа, очень много.

Какой мой вывод? Я не всё ещё посмотрел, но многое. Я хочу сказать что прошло 60 лет, и вот эта тайна для этих блогеров так и должна остаться тайной. Потому что если тайна будет эта раскрыта, то потеряется интерес. Надо это им? Нет! Весь интерес блогеров, которые вращаются вокруг этой темы, в поисках ответа. А если тайна будет раскрыта, то интерес будет потерян. Поэтому процесс поиска открытия этой тайны - я не знаю, сколько всё будет продолжаться... Но мне жалко этих невинно убиенных ребят. Их прах не оставят в покое, чтобы они там спокойно находились.

Вот такое моё мнение, мнение обычного телезрителя. Я не раскрою вам никакой тайны, я просто высказываю своё мнение. Я хочу пожелать всем добра. Будьте здоровы! Это не первая и не последняя группа, которая погибла в туристических походах. Куда бы вы ни шли, надо быть осторожными. Горы не прощают таких проступков.

4

General Discussion / Re: Hubris and risk taking?

« Last post by Axelrod on November 17, 2024, 07:15:12 AM »

I will continue what I left unwritten this morning.

The initial assumption in the topic seems completely wrong to me.

As I heard from Askinadz's interview, the institute paid money only for difficult hikes.
Since Igor Dyatlov went on 9 hikes before his 5th year (each winter+summer) and did not receive a salary yet, there was a problem with the availability of money.
It seems to me that they just wanted to go on a hike, but the hike does not reach the level of difficulty.
From Korolev's interrogation, it is clear that a difficult hike is 350 kilometers,
but for Dyatlov's group, 300 km were allowed.

Further, of these 300 km, they traveled the first 30 km by truck, 20 km with horse = a total of 270 (250) km.

Delays on the way are also unacceptable, because this means additional food, additional money and cargo.

Dyatlov's route itself seems strange (artificial) to me.
For proof, there is an assumption that no one has ever gone this route either before or after.
The mystical expedition of 1999 (an expedition for TV reportage) only went halfway along the ridge 40 years later and they shortened the route to get to Vizhay on February 12. Thus, this route could not have been completed in a short time.
I think that Dyatlov could have gotten to Vizhay only on February 16, when he should be WANTED already.

The group of Karelin and Blinov also had a circular route.
I do not know how popular circular routes are and it is difficult to imagine what caused this in 1959.
I myself have been on circular routes - only when the second half of this route is by transport.
Perhaps the requirement of the city route commission is not to go beyond the borders of the Sverdlovsk region.

But the route from Vizhay to the Dyatlov Pass, to Otorten and further beyond Otorten is popular.

5

General Discussion / Re: Hubris and risk taking?

« Last post by GlennM on November 17, 2024, 06:59:25 AM »

Axelrod compares the slope on 1079 to the slope where he lives. He discounts an avalanche. Axelrod does not contemplate what effect having a ditch digger change the slope on the path home. A ditch digger can create a ledge which can be a trip and fall hazard. Similarly the DP9 digging into the snow to level tha base of their tent also generates a steep angle immediately next to the tent. I believe this levelling of the snow bank and the subsequent collapse of the adjascent ledge affacted the tent. I am encouraged in this assessment because no rescuer observed an avalanche debris at the tent, though farther downhill footprints were obscured by a snow drift.

In a comparison, if Axelrod's path to home were changed by a levelled trench and if the shoveled dirt was thrown on the uphill side, then a combination of wind and rain might cause a slump with the natural effect of filling in the dug out trench.

Since this thread is actually about bold decisions, the whole comment on avalanche is beside the point. For the record, I do not think the DP9's method of erecting shelter was done in  conceit. There might be something about them having an imperfect understanding of layering of snow and ice to question their choice. However, in this thread, I submit that hubris in ignoring the Forrester's warning set a cascade of decisions which only affect people's behavior. Nature has no decision making ability and as such can neither be controlled nor reasoned with. It can only be predicted. If the persons doing the predicting do not have all the facts, then bad things happen to good people.

6

General Discussion / Re: Hubris and risk taking?

« Last post by Axelrod on November 17, 2024, 01:53:58 AM »

Landscapes and elevations such as Dyatlov Pass are 10 miles from my home.
I have never climbed mountains in winter because there is no need, but I have often climbed in summer, usually for berries.
But 1079 is very far (and expensive) mountain for berries.

I can't understand what the danger is?
The main danger is snakes and heart problems for somebody.
Wolves and bears are not encountered, only wild boars and deer.

At a similar altitude as the place where the tent is set up. are the cities of Yerevan and Kislovodsk (if you know them).
It is funny to hear how my relative went crazy with this crazy idea of ​​an avalanche in such a place, and I want to reassure other people.
That's why I am here on this forum.

7

General Discussion / Re: Hubris and risk taking?

« Last post by GlennM on November 16, 2024, 01:12:07 PM »

Dyatlov Pass: Document  from Dyatlov Pass article on Sasha  says

A member of our community "Pass named after the Igor Dyatlov group", Mihail Antonov, told an interesting story. It would seem completely by accident that it turned out that his wife’s grandmother knew Alexander Kolevatov during her studies at UPI.

Here's how he tells it:

There was a dialogue: "And today we were at the cinema, about the Dyatlov group, where the students died..."

She interrupts: "I never liked Igor, he was too self-confident

When zi read theis i say a person who is making leadership decisions can be dead right or dead wrong, or put another way, if you are calm when everyone else is in a panic, then you do not have all the facts.

8

General Discussion / Re: Did they feel the tent was worth saving?

« Last post by Ziljoe on November 12, 2024, 02:21:09 AM »

There is speculation on other sites that the tent had holes, been cut and stitched a number of times on other hikes .

If the tent had a floor , which I think it did , then you would still have a tent of sorts to use in an A frame configuration, especially in the forest areas with trees to strap a ridge line. Holes, leantoos could also  be dug and the remaining canvas used as a roof. Not ideal , but the cutting of a tent does not mean that the rest of the material is not a useful resource, just more inconvenient?.

However , I don't think cutting a tent on a mountain slope in the cold and most likely the dark , is a casual decision. It seems to be a deliberate choice and course of action to exit the tent , it does suggest the tent failed or the tent collapsed. The hikers,  having been able to exit the tent , irrelevant as to why, now can't stay at the tent or retrieve any other survival gear , equipment or clothing.  Its the fact that they can't take anything more from the tent that makes me think the tent was the least of their worries .

9

General Discussion / Re: Did they feel the tent was worth saving?

« Last post by GlennM on November 11, 2024, 02:28:58 PM »

Axelrod, thank you for the clarification and the opinion.If you believe that cutting the tent for its cloth is a fiction, then certainly Igor would not consider doing so.because it is not agreed upon practice. Thank you.

10

General Discussion / Re: Did they feel the tent was worth saving?

« Last post by Axelrod on November 11, 2024, 02:10:50 PM »

This is probably not about Blinov's group, but about Sogrin's group.
Sogrin writes: On the second or third day our tent burned down, and we were forced to live the remaining 20 days using old taiga methods.

This is the first time I've heard about using pieces of a tent. I think it's a fabrication.