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General Discussion / Re: Bartolomey

« Last post by Ziljoe on Today at 05:47:46 AM »

Thanks Senior Maldonado.

There is a thread where such stages were found , in china I think. Glennm posted them before you joined.

My problem is , is that's a launch stage and it falls from the lower atmosphere. It was the same for the r7 booster rockets. They would fall and that's what's reported in the 17th of March 1959 statements I think.

From my understanding, no early stage of the known rockets can be above dyatlov pass , if the main stage was to be over the pass it could only be in the upper orbit travelling extremely fast.

That's my understanding of it at least.

The only other potential objects are a plane, or spy balloons?

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General Discussion / Re: The Manuals

« Last post by Hunter on October 25, 2026, 09:20:13 PM »

To analyze the situation, we need reference books published before 1959. Preferably, before early 1958. I have a couple more books; when I get home, I can send you the titles. But one of them might not have been available to the civilian population at the time.

There's a book called "Challenging Hiking Trips" by Boldyrev, Zhmurov, and Kosarev. It was published in 1959 ( "Сложные туристические походы " авторов Болдырева, Жмурова, Косарева. Но она издана в 1959 году).

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General Discussion / Re: Bartolomey

« Last post by Senior Maldonado on October 25, 2026, 09:13:40 AM »

The problem with any rocket stage getting near the pass is how they work. The need a main launge pad, we only have two. For the remotest possibility for the last stage to get over the pass it needs to be cruising in the upper atmosphere, if it comes down from there it's traveling at speed and breaks up . The rocket stage can't get there by a lower alltiduded as it would break up against the density of the air at lower altitudes . The acceleration is the problem. The previous photos you sent of largely intact rocket stages are the first stages of modern rockets that don't go into the upper atmosphere.

Majority of space launches probably obey to the rule you stated. But not all of them. Here is example of 2nd stage, which fell to the ground almost intact in the region where Mansi live. One helicopter was used to clean the stage, and no debris were left.

https://pikabu.ru/story/na_granitse_yugryi_i_sverdlovskoy_oblasti_upali_mnogotonnyie_chasti_raketyi_soyuz_7230534

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General Discussion / Re: The Manuals

« Last post by Ziljoe on October 24, 2026, 04:00:26 PM »

Let's ground this thread back in physical reality instead of parsing fragments of edited posts to score points. The hikers followed good practice .

Bongyi, the videos and statements you shared completely defeat your own arguments when you look at the raw physics, medical reality, and literal case files:

1. The Batoning Myth: You are fundamentally confusing cutting a tree with splitting a log. To baton wood with a knife using the technique in your video, you first need a log processed down into a manageable size. The hikers had zero saws or axes at the cedar. There were no manageable sizes to work with. You cannot baton an infinite, raw, cylindrical tree branch down the middle with a pocket knife; you will simply trap, bind, and lose your only blade.

2. The Illusion of Fire Heat: Your second video from the -50°C camp perfectly validates my point about fuel reality. In that footage, a fully clothed man who just stepped out of a heated tent is freezing while standing right next to a fire built of small, loose branches. A small fire made of thin twigs gives off virtually zero ambient heat in a blizzard.
Now let's look at the actual Dyatlov timeline: the hikers had already been exposed to extreme alpine winds for at least 25 to 30 minutes in inadequate clothing before the fire was even lit. This lack of heat is exactly why victims of severe hypothermia desperately stick their limbs directly into and around the fire. They are in a situation so desperate that their motor functions are failing, and sourcing more wood further away becomes physically restricted. They are trapped at that tree.

3. The 'Unburnable' Misconception: Your claim that the cedar branches were unburnable or went unused directly contradicts the official criminal case files. We don't need to guess; we can look directly at Georgy Atmanaki's official interrogation testimony:
'Two meters from the place of their death, behind a cedar, traces of a fire were preserved, quite large, judging by the fact that the surviving embers, up to 80 mm in diameter, burned in half... About twenty meters around the cedar, traces were preserved of how someone present at the cedar cut a young spruce forest with a knife, about twenty such cuts were preserved, but the trunks themselves, with the exception of one, we did not find. It is impossible to assume that they were used for kindling, since, firstly, they burn poorly, and besides, there was a relatively large amount of dry material around.'

Atmanaki completely deflates your point. The fire was quite large and burned through 80 mm thick logs. The wood that 'burned poorly' and went unused was the young spruce cuts, not the weathered cedar branches. Furthermore, Atmanaki explicitly states that the dry branches on the cedar were broken up to 5 meters high, and notes: 'there was no need to cut or chop, since all these young shoots broke easily with even the slightest force.' They weren't performing acrobatic stunts or precision knife carvings; they were snapping dry, resin-heavy wood under extreme physical duress.

Amashilu, dropping a late-life video interview where Yudin mentions a 'purge' completely overlooks the chronological timeline of his research. My point stands: Yudin did not believe human outsiders were involved in the initial crisis at the tent. His private manuscripts (Yudin's Notes) prove his lifelong focus was on a technological, man-made disaster. He meticulously archived Aerospace Academician Raushenbakh and the Strategic Missile Forces because he believed a weapon test malfunction was the absolute initial trigger for the evacuation.
The concept of 'outsiders' or a 'purge' only appeared much later in his life as a secondary, reactive attempt to mash together conflicting media theories when he couldn't reconcile certain anomalies, like the pristine socks or internal trauma.

The hard physical evidence remains unchanged: the cedar tree was the only accessible source of dry, unburied fuel available to them under extreme survival duress. Trying to turn a standard, tragic cold-weather sequence into a debate over semantic wordplay or Hollywood stunt scenarios doesn't change the cold physics of the mountain.

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General Discussion / Re: The Manuals

« Last post by bongyi on October 24, 2026, 01:55:06 PM »

A knife is not going to be able to split trees

I have split wood with knifes, but you are showing a processed log cut with a saw , not a full log .

Somewhat controversial! What didn't work out? What did you do wrong?

You are a very good observer and you are absolutely right! I was looking for a video where a severed branch is splitting with a knife at night. But all that looked was great blackness!

An other video here:

https://youtu.be/M9pSyeXHPXI?t=464  (from 7min 44 second)

There's a pretty big fire here. I think they will melt snow on it for drinking water. But even this fire doesn't give enough heat. He complains that his hands are freezing as he holds the camera. It's -50 Celsius degrees. A fire smaller than this could hardly give any heat. I think warming up by fire can only be an illusion! It doesn't work in practice.

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General Discussion / Re: The Manuals

« Last post by bongyi on October 24, 2026, 01:35:59 PM »

I remember Yuri Yudin could not reconcile the condition of the hikers' feet at autopsy with what they had apparently been through, in his handwritten analyses of the official criminal case files, he wrote:
"The legs are bare, not damaged, not torn to blood (1.85 km through the snow and stones and the socks are intact!), and then so much work by the fire!"
.....troubled by how the hikers could walk nearly two kilometers down a rough, icy mountain slope shoeless, without tearing their socks or suffering severe, bloody lacerations on the sharp stones. This anomaly led him to believe until his death that the crime scene had been staged or that the group had been forced down the mountain by outsiders.

I saw a video where someone came down from the tent site to the forest in socks. But he did this during the day, and it is not visible what happens to him when he reaches deep snow.
 During the day, dangerous stones may be avoided, but crossing a roller of stones in the dark in socks is quite difficult to imagine without injury! Even in boots, it would be a difficult task, one's legs slide down on an inclined surface, one gets stuck between the stones, one sprains one's ankle, etc. There are several such stone roller strips on the way to the forest strip. Of course, I haven't been to the place in person, I only know it from videos and pictures.
 
There must be very deep snow at the bottom of the slope! Anyone who has ever been torn into deep snow, let's say up to the waist, knows that snow grips a person's feet with great force. You can't just pull your leg out of it. If your boots are not laced properly, the snow will even take them off your feet! A sock or felt boot would immediately be pulled off your feet and stuck in the snow 1.5 meters deep. How did hikers cross there in socks and felt boots?
 
To understand these, you have to be on site in similar circumstances! In fact, everything that is now in question becomes obvious there!

Dorosenko and Krivonishchenko have injuries that may have occurred during tree climbing. The latter also shows edema on one foot, which could be a consequence of the fall.
If we imagine cedar as a central place, we can conclude that the others leave there after starting the fire. They try to find shelter to make, dig snowcave, etc. So they move. But those who stay at the cedar do not move. Why? Because they were injured when they fell from the tree? And they can't walk? That's why they freeze first. It is symbolic that the searchers find them first!

If you climb a tree in the freezing cold without gloves or shoes, the contact between your palms and fingers, your feet and the frozen tree branches is very strong. This means that the body surfaces participating in the contact and the body tissues behind them cool down very quickly. The fingers are approx will freeze in 5 minutes and will not obey. You won't be able to hold on to them either, you can't hold the knife, etc. That's it with the legs. The branches cut from the cedar were not combustible. That's what search engines say. These branches were not the dry and dead branches at the bottom of the tree. But living branches. For these, you had to climb the tree and there you had to cut them with the knife for many minutes until you managed to cut them. In the meantime, you had to stand on the frozen branches in socks. It must have been extremely painful! The entire body weight is in an area of a few square centimeters and it is in contact with the frozen tree branch without substantial insulation. It was probably necessary to change position every 1-2 minutes, because the body surfaces in contact cooled down and became painful. It's easy to imagine they fell! And where they fell is not a flat, but a steep surface whose surface is uneven and hard. And this fall should be softened with frozen limbs and no shoes. In my opinion, this absolutely includes the possibility of an injury that makes it impossible for him to move or just stand up at all.

Of course, this is just speculation, but maybe this happened to both of them!

Yudin is an interesting figure! I don't remember he ever criticizing Ivanov! Which is surprising, because the relatives did not believe the authorities. And they had every reason to. I don't believe the authorities either. All information that comes from the authority, e.g. autopsy reports are questionable!
It seems to me that Yudin was distressed and oppressed throughout this story to an extent that cannot be explained by the death of his companions, but as if he felt guilty that he had kept something quiet for decades. Sometimes he acts impetuous when asked! I think that the facts can be false, but the reactions as the characters manifest are real. Perhaps it would be more correct to pay attention to emotional implications instead of facts! What emotions are noticeable? Sister Solter's video - strong emotions appear there too, for example. The primary thing is not what he says, but how he says it? But we can take it all the way to the limit of imagination: Even between hikers! Igor Tyitov raised the sympathy between Zoltotaryov and Zina! It's an interesting thought, but of course it's burdened with great uncertainty! These are not logically exact things, but they are still more reliable compared to the assumed false facts! I should re-watch the Yudin interviews from this point of view, why do him get irritated with some questions, what can really bother him?

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/5_17.jpg
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Krivonischenko-camera-film6-34.jpg
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Krivonischenko-camera-film6-28.jpg
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/1_21.jpg

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General Discussion / Re: A look at DP through different tragedies

« Last post by GlennM on October 24, 2026, 08:51:34 AM »

And when meta theory fails?

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General Discussion / Re: Why did Igor die?

« Last post by GlennM on October 24, 2026, 08:49:28 AM »

quote from Amashilu

Right, but I guess the question could be asked, as long as he wasn't incapacitated, why didn't he do what was necessary to keep himself alive, such as construct a quick snow shelter?

I argue that his ankle injuries contributed to his demise as one of the combining factors including exposure.

In the balance, a snow shelter is a wind break and an opportunity to rest. Alternately, it requires energy, working arms and hands and it delays covering the mile back to the tent.

Was IRZ's attempt to retain the tent worth dieing for? It is when you have nothing to lose. Surely, those were desperate hours.

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General Discussion / Re: The Manuals

« Last post by amashilu on October 24, 2026, 07:37:04 AM »

Yudin did not believe outsiders were involved.

Yudin believed they were poisoned because they were expendable after witnessing something they shouldn't have. He says "it was the purge" and they weren't needed.

Quote from video of interview with Yudin: " ... they had already stumbled upon something they shouldn't have gone to, but it's not their fault. They accidentally became witnesses and were poisoned. They were doomed because Ivanov told me this, they simply weren't needed .."

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General Discussion / Re: The Manuals

« Last post by Ziljoe on October 24, 2026, 06:59:06 AM »

It could not be a simple stunt to climb the cedar, especially without shoes. In order to be able to cut branches of 6-8 centimeters, someone had to climb above the branches with a knife and stand firmly on the tree. Anyone who falls from just 5 meters onto hard uneven ground without shoes at -30 degrees Celsius is unlikely to be able to stand on their feet afterwards! There is no soft layer of snow under the cedar.

This is a good point.

I remember Yuri Yudin could not reconcile the condition of the hikers' feet at autopsy with what they had apparently been through, in his handwritten analyses of the official criminal case files, he wrote:
"The legs are bare, not damaged, not torn to blood (1.85 km through the snow and stones and the socks are intact!), and then so much work by the fire!"
.....troubled by how the hikers could walk nearly two kilometers down a rough, icy mountain slope shoeless, without tearing their socks or suffering severe, bloody lacerations on the sharp stones. This anomaly led him to believe until his death that the crime scene had been staged or that the group had been forced down the mountain by outsiders.

Yudin did not believe outsiders were involved. The walking in socks has been flogged to death and researchers have done it numerous times with little or no problem. Hikers are encouraged to use socks for walking on source flooring around campfires.