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81

General Discussion / Re: Food in tent AM or PM

« Last post by Osi on October 21, 2024, 11:50:30 PM »

It is unthinkable that a tent containing bags, coats, boots, blankets and personal belongings with an average weight of 25 kilos, as well as a weight of 500 kilos fixed with poles, would be dragged when the slab breaks. We are talking about a weight of more than 1 ton, including the weight of the people inside. When the tent, which has hardened due to cold, collapses, it crumples into deep layers, and an object left on it or a forgotten lantern can remain in that stylish and light piece of fabric for days. Even if there is an extreme storm. When they found the lighthouse, they noticed that the snow on it had blown away, but its sides were buried in the snow. This means: the flashlight is stuck in the tent fabric. It's unreasonable to have a lantern attached to a tent at the top of the mountain. If it is claimed to be tied, the only explanation for this is that some of the group went to the forest (for wood, water, personal needs, etc.) To mark the location of the tent

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General Discussion / Re: Food in tent AM or PM

« Last post by KathleenDSmith1 on October 21, 2024, 07:27:48 PM »

Teddy and Everyone:

Previously I had mentioned the tents and what was going on between dates of Feb 1st and 2nd 1959, This first photo and explained how that they eaten before proceeding to 1st at Auspiya and then at 2nd pitching of the tent at Mount Kholat Syakhl ?????




Thank You
Kathleen Dee Smith

83

General Discussion / Re: Vertical distance from top of bank to creek

« Last post by GlennM on October 21, 2024, 06:20:32 PM »

So, if it is snow that crushed Zolo and Lyuda, it would have to be older compacted snow that was hardened by temperature fluctuations similar to compacted dense snow from roofs. I am not aware of any record of the recovery team speaking about snow density, only depth. Do we have an indication that there was heavy snow in the ravine? Lyuda was found with a probe.

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General Discussion / Food in tent AM or PM

« Last post by GlennM on October 21, 2024, 06:07:26 PM »

A forum member brought up the matter of food at the tent. It was peripheral to our discussion about flashlights. We are led to understand that a flashlight found at the tent was in the off position. Another was found discarded a distance away.

What I want to know is what food was found in the tent which was being consumed when they left. Further, I want to know if they were eating a morning, mid day the evening meal. I believe a Russian forum member might have insight.

You must appreciate that leaving the tent during an evening meal and not talking the tent flashlight is counterintuitive. So too is having a flashlight on a tent after a slab slip! 

Again, what time of day is suggested by the remains of the food foundmin the tent?

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General Discussion / Re: Vertical distance from top of bank to creek

« Last post by Partorg on October 21, 2024, 03:23:22 PM »

The next question is whether the weight of collapsed snow would be sufficient to produce the crushing injuries

It is not only and not so much the weight of snow, but its hardness and strength.
A flower pot weighing only a couple of kilograms falling on us from a 3rd floor balcony will make a much stronger impression on us than a ton of poplar fluff sliding from the roof of a five-story building.
If on a slope where snow is packed and dried by constant and strong winds, it becomes like foam concrete and needs to be cut with a hacksaw, then in the forest zone where there are no strong winds, it remains loose until spring and starts to compact only as a result of melting under the influence of solar radiation
But in the middle of winter its density and hardness is such that it can be easily pierced with a fist and when falling from a height of two metres will not even cause serious bruises, because  all the energy of the piece accumulated in the fall will be spent on its compaction and breaking it.

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General Discussion / Re: Vertical distance from top of bank to creek

« Last post by GlennM on October 20, 2024, 02:17:36 PM »

The snow phenomenon is real. The next question is whether the weight of collapsed snow would be sufficient to produce the crushing injuries found on Zolo and Lyuda. He would be laying on his back and she, on her side. The others were not affected perhaps because they were not in the snow cave at the time. Are we talking pounds or tons? Who can speak to the weight of the snow?

87

General Discussion / Re: About fire

« Last post by GlennM on October 19, 2024, 03:27:36 PM »

"flashlights shows that the decision to go down to the forest was made during the evacuation."
It also suggests their crisis happened after dark. However, I have no idea how that flashlight was attached to the tent. I can not envision an untethered flashlight. Further, if tethered, it would have to be aimed and tied down. All we hear is that it was on the tent with snow above and below it. Impossible in a gale, I think.

"presence of 2 different characteristic footprints (collapsed and raised footprints) indicates that the group first walked on the slipped snow and then trampled the natural snow."
Suggests that in the dark they could not be certain that wind driven snow might actually get more dangerous, they took the safe option which is to leave the slope.

"They cut their clothes and threw them into the fire to strengthen the fire. socks, handkerchiefs, etc."
I will need more convincing. Seven other people at the tree are not going to tolerate suicidal behavior from their friends. I tend to think they were umdressed by others post mortem but before freezing.

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General Discussion / Re: About fire

« Last post by Osi on October 18, 2024, 10:05:19 PM »

Instead of taking a few boots or blankets in case of emergency, choosing 2 flashlights shows that the decision to go down to the forest was made during the evacuation. When a well-dressed person gets out of the tent, he has to help his other friend who is stuck inside and wants to leave the tent, and naturally leaves the flashlight aside to get him out. He forgets to take the flashlight due to the snowstorm and panic.
I am not sure if they are familiar with the boot rock. Even if they are, it does not give you an advantage in terms of warming up.
It is also very interesting that they dropped the second flashlight on the way. What does it tell us so far?
A small layer of snow that collapsed the tent and forced the group members to evacuate, caused panic, slipped. The presence of 2 different characteristic footprints (collapsed and raised footprints) indicates that the group first walked on the slipped snow and then trampled the natural snow. The disappearance of the tracks a little further and the dropping of the flashlight indicate, in my opinion, that they noticed that the second, larger layer of snow had slipped and started running. In fact, we are talking about a slide that is technically not fatal, slides slowly due to the slope and loses its effect 300-400 meters after the tent. However, it must have caused panic and falls. The behavior of 2 Yuri can be associated with advanced stages of hypothermia. They cut their clothes and threw them into the fire to strengthen the fire. socks, handkerchiefs, etc. This stage is accompanied by dizziness, clumsiness, slow movements and partially paradoxical undressing. I think their clothes must have been carried by Kolovatov to isolate the 3 people in the valley.

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General Discussion / Re: About fire

« Last post by GlennM on October 18, 2024, 04:42:22 PM »

What do you make of the flashlight on the tent? Was this to guide the hikers, or was it placed by the rescue/recovery team accidentally?

I feel that the hikers misjudege the distance to the forest. This may due to time of day, weather and visibility. The fact that they did not wear boots, argues that they thought themselves lower on the slope than was the reality. Once at the cedar, the fact that the fire really did not help them changed everything for the worst.

Do you think the two Yuris were undressed before freezing?

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General Discussion / Re: About fire

« Last post by Osi on October 18, 2024, 03:15:01 PM »

Based on the existence of fire and examining its properties, I exclude the possibility of strangers in Sedir. The only thing that makes you think there will be a stranger there is the fire, and it couldn't have been left out in the open. The valley is outside this straight line. If we include the valley, we can express the area where all the events took place with the letter L.