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81

General Discussion / Re: Help me get to the bottom of this

« Last post by Ziljoe on June 02, 2026, 06:45:07 PM »

Full set of photos from the 1963 hike https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-yakimenko-1963

I think this is the area and location of the stream that the letter implies that the logs / branches remained and the cave(snow cave) we can see the potential branches across the stream. Some of these branches may never have been seen by the searcher's. I'm not sure if this location in the ravine is the same as recent expeditions . They look slightly different and I will need to check as the stone formation is quite significant in this photo.







The same location but the photo is looking down on the stream.




The possible broken and cut small trees used for some flooring , although it looked like the birch tree which I think there was one found.



A hiker climbing the cedar( many tourists climbed trees on hikes). It's not difficult and not very high. We can have a guess at the height that was reached from this photo, his head will be at about 4 meters so another arm reach will be close to 5 meters to retrieve branches . Not exactly intimidating or high.



The cedar with a probe standing beside it , the probe , or probes can be seen in several photo's. Also in the background is the fallen tree.

82

General Discussion / Re: Help me get to the bottom of this

« Last post by Ziljoe on June 02, 2026, 05:56:03 PM »

Thank you Glennm

I've been going back and forth , up and down, left and right on the matter for some sort of snow cave or hole for years now.

It's not perfect but ultimately it is the most obvious thing to have happened . I've been in snow and made snow caves , a bank of snow is easy to dig into , at least in the right conditions. We have videos and photos of recent expeditions to the pass and we can see a combination of different snow falls and snow consistency at different times and year's.

You actually made me think slightly different about a possible scenario although it raises different questions . The ravine 4 might have been placed there after a snow collapse , the other hikers dug them out , and the collapse was over the den flooring . From the description at the scene it's difficult to evaluate the angles of the debris trail but from the searchers photo's it seems to be natural slope from the cedar side which I suspect is where the debris trail was . My reason for that conclusion is the vertical back snow wall in the photo's as the searchers must have followed a ground based trail.

The ravine 4 are quite well dressed and most suited for that type of work given at least two of them had boots , hats etc.

I'm trying to fathom out if Lynda had her leg manipulated because of the loose stocking , ripped leg and part jumper or jacket on her leg. I still don't fully understand the nature or description of how this half number was applied to her lower leg. I've got mixed ideas regarding that depending on what version I believe.

But, if the ravine 4 were dead and bodies exposed , then I would think the clothes would have been used to keep warm by the others , to the regain the tent.

A snow hole is the best survival solution for a short period of time for survival, there's no arguing that . Everything we see seems to be an attempt to at least try that approach by the hikers.

I've recently been looking and scratching my head again about the footwear and trying to find a pattern or reasons as to how you would utilise the team for the most appropriate task given what was been worn by the individuals.

I'm not sure how to join all the variables but a sequence might help us get there . The injuries for the ravine 4 are extremely high on the crush and compression forces. What the autopsy seems to reveal,is they died in that way , they were crushed and compressed with little or no relief from that crushing force , whatever caused the crushing wasn't removed off the chest. We have two possibilities, a tree or a mass of snow....

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General Discussion / Re: Help me get to the bottom of this

« Last post by GlennM on June 02, 2026, 04:57:50 PM »

Ziljoe's explanation ticks a lot of boxes for me. I am left wondering about the cave construction. As I said, if the hikers dug down to where the matt was found, is that not a snow cave or is that considered a chute instead? Does a cave by definition have to be a horizontal excavation?
If a cave must be horizontal and if the R4 used hands, legs and cut branches as digging tools, can we say the cave collapsed on them right where they were found?

I would expect those caught in the collapse would all show signs of a struggle to free themselves. Other than the obvious skeletal damages, they all appear to be resting, napping in some way, shape or form. Was this exhaustion and resignation?

I accept that in favorable conditions, the making of a snow cave is the smart thing to do. It had to be big enough for the R4 and possibly IRZ too. That would be a substantial excavation.

I assume they all intended to get back to the tent. I believe excavating a snow cave requires effort. I wonder if too much effort was expended and they were caught up in an exhausted state. This is why they were found as they were.

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Meteor / Re: Boston Meteor on May 30, 2026

« Last post by SURI on June 01, 2026, 08:30:56 PM »

Neither are military, KGB, LGM, Mansi,Yeti, group infighting , temptations nor threats. Weather does not sell books..

By the way, Mansi, that's an interesting thing.

„Yes, Mansi, Mansi, Mansi. This word comes up more and more often in our conversations.“

They constantly followed the "Mansi trail".

„Today as yesterday were are following the path of Mansi.
Here the trail takes us to the shores of the river. We lose track. In the future, the trail follows the left bank of Auspiya river...“

But the biggest job they had was rewriting and singing the songs. They practically didn't think about anything else. And what a bunch of them they wrote...

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Meteor / Re: Boston Meteor on May 30, 2026

« Last post by GlennM on May 31, 2026, 07:20:45 PM »

Neither are military, KGB, LGM, Mansi,Yeti, group infighting , temptations nor threats. Weather does not sell books..

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General Discussion / Re: Help me get to the bottom of this

« Last post by Ziljoe on May 31, 2026, 05:40:14 PM »

There is no way to know how big or small the snow drift was on the night of the incident. We know only two things ,

1) it was filled with snow up to 3-4 meters from the stream bed to the top of the snow drift by the time the searchers arrived .

2) we know that in some years that the ravine doesn't fully close over with snow.

These are two facts we can be sure of.

We can see in a number of modern expeditions to the ravine area in winter , that there's different thickness and depth all up and down the stream bed on these different years. Some years the ravine snow will bridge across in some areas and different areas in other years. Some years not at all, it's variable.

However , we can look at the evidence we have and that is , there was a lot of snow. We know snow cave collapses cause rib fractures and flail chest injuries. The autopsy screams asphyxiation and crush injuries combined with the foaming blood found along with other tell tail signatures in the lungs and surrounding tissues.

The flooring of the den equates to the cut trees in the area, no arguments there. They made a snow shelter, they floored it or started to collect the flooring to put somewhere either upstream or down stream from where the flooring was found . The snow cave was either built and the floor of that den is where the cave was or one of the caves, or they were digging the cave and going to move the flooring into it. Snow caves can be dug with a bit of stick, hands , feet or clothing. A natural drift can already have gaps or air pockets in it, you just scoop the bits in between out of the way.

It is really that simple , the temperature difference between an enclosed snow shelter and an open one is about 10-15 degrees. It's essential to get an enclosed shelter for the night , especially if you don't have a fire.

87

General Discussion / Re: Help me get to the bottom of this

« Last post by Senior Maldonado on May 31, 2026, 11:19:41 AM »

My answers, if this might help in any way.

The possibilities are:
1. Naturally formed debris  before any clothing was overlaid
2.Mansi constructed hunting rest spot before any clothing was overlaid
3. R4 comstruction requiring testimony regarding matching materials and knife cuts to surrounding foliage

ANSWER: R4 construction, no testimony required.

If option 3 , then how do we explain the trail of twigs leading to it?
A. If the site of the branch mat was exposed in February and subsequently covered by snow, then there would be no digging through surface snow in February to comstruct the mat. It would be drag and drop. The ledge and the adjascent creek would be visible ,thus avoiding building a mat on water.
B. If the discovery reports are correct, then not only was the surface snow dug through (sans tools) to reach the creek bed but the branches and clothes had to be dragged down and laid is shape.

ANSWER: A

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General Discussion / Re: Help me get to the bottom of this

« Last post by GlennM on May 31, 2026, 06:48:59 AM »

As I see it there are a number of explanations for the mat of branches in the ravine. I suggert the possibilities are:
1. Naturally formed debris  before any clothing was overlaid
2.Mansi constructed hunting rest spot before any clothing was overlaid
3. R4 comstruction requiring testimony regarding matching materials and knife cuts to surrounding foliage

If option 3 , then how do we explain the trail of twigs leading to it?
A. If the site of the branch mat was exposed in February and subsequently covered by snow, then there would be no digging through surface snow in February to comstruct the mat. It would be drag and drop. The ledge and the adjascent creek would be visible ,thus avoiding building a mat on water.
B. If the discovery reports are correct, then not only was the surface snow dug through (sans tools) to reach the creek bed but the branches and clothes had to be dragged down and laid is shape.

If B. Then wouldn't digging down in the snow in order to make a ground level mat of branches constitute a snow cave in and of itself?  Further, if this was what actually happened, then getting in and out of the den would disturb the surrounding snowbanks,  The opinion of the rescue party was that the snow they, the rescuers dug through was not disturbed. Alternately, it was in fact previously worked, but nobody thought it important.

If the hikers intended to return to their tent after taking cover in the ravine, can we seriously believe they would lay on their backs and kick a hole in snow from where they were found to the mat? Could they have kicked snow from the mat to where they were found?  If so, then did the arch they made collapse and crush them? That suggests a very considerable overburden of snow which is loose enough to compress by kicking but solid enough not to mimic excavating a hole in loose sand.

89

General Discussion / Re: Help me get to the bottom of this

« Last post by SURI on May 31, 2026, 01:14:41 AM »

So, the 4 Rs dug that snow cave to hide from an unknown, compelling force!

No one hides from themselves.

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General Discussion / Re: Help me get to the bottom of this

« Last post by ilahiyol on May 31, 2026, 12:25:11 AM »

In my opinion, there can only be one reason why the 4 Rs would dig such a large snow cave with such great effort! Because digging this cave must be quite difficult for 3 men and 1 woman. Digging through a 2.5-meter-high snowdrift in pitch darkness at -20 degrees Celsius could only be to hide from danger!!! So, the 4 Rs dug that snow cave to hide from an unknown, compelling force! Most likely, there were much smaller snowdrifts around that could have been dug. Also, why are there no photos of this place before it was dug up??? If there were, the event could be explained much more logically.