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Dyatlov Pass Forum

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81
General Discussion / Re: Snow around the tent
« Last post by GlennM on September 27, 2026, 09:48:31 PM »
It would accelerate shearing due to the combined effects of wind resistance and vertical compression on upper snow layer of the 30 degree slope adjacent to the broadside of the tent

Simply put, they piled stuff up and wind and gravity pushed it back on them.
82
General Discussion / Re: Slash, then walk?
« Last post by GlennM on September 27, 2026, 09:36:27 PM »
The only scenario in which I could see this is a crazy fantasy, for example, if a man with a gun ordered them all out of the tent and wouldn't allow them to put their shoes or jackets on, then forced them to line up and march, then he or an accomplice slashed the tent so it would become useless as shelter going forward. I realize, of course, that this is not even a proposed theory, but what other scenario can fit together these two events?

No new theory is a good observation
The hybrid theory of a man with a gun, an accomplice with a knife is convenient, but is not supported by factual evidence of a pair of intruders with a gun and a knife. Further, the accomplice with the knife would have to cut the tent from within, yes?

I appreciate the frustration. Like the Ripper and Voynich Manuscript, some mysteries are hard to solve.

The tent was flattened, not blown away. What would hold it down in wind that would result in raised footprints on the slope? Obviously a mass of snow which the rescuers had to clear in order to look into the tent. The snow was moved by the group when they made the foundation for their last camp. Perhaps that snow and more moved over the tent when the slide happened. The slide took the support skis and lines that held up the middle of the tent. There was no possibility of re-rigging the tent with a slashed side and lost support rigging at that time of day, in those conditions.

The footprints do not support a toe to toe confrontation, nor dragging, not carrying excessive weight. It indicates an orderly retreat to the only location which can provide heat and shelter.
83
General Discussion / Re: Slash, then walk?
« Last post by Ziljoe on September 27, 2026, 05:47:11 PM »
I'm not sure what new idea you are looking for.

The photos of the hikers going up the slope towards the pass and the erecting of the tent show weather conditions that show poor visibility.

The snow on the slope goes through cycles of being blown away from where it lands, freezing and thawing and getting eroded by the blowing wind and ice crystals.

We only have a clue from the photo of the erecting the tent on the slope that shows the snow was hard and mostly firm. The rucksack and the hand that is visible show no signs of sinking into soft snow, however, snow is gathering on the clothes and rucksack.

So it seems there's little chance of foot prints being made during the erecting of the tent. The snow being dug out to level a platform would be most likely be used as a wind block.

The raised foot prints suggest a change in temperature or fresh snow that night. I don't know the science exactly but the snow was possibly 6 inches deep above a hard firm snow layer. This suggests there was new snow on the slope on that night, blown in , falling or drifting .


84
Case Files / Re: Why the criminal case had no number?
« Last post by Axelrod on September 27, 2026, 05:29:16 PM »
IN RUSSIAN:

Почему уголовное дело без номера?
Ольга [ГАЛАНИНА] говорит нам в своём 10-минутном ролике в конце 2019 года: Почему нет номера у уголовного дела о гибели туристов в районе горы Отортен (2019-XII-7):


[-] Всем привет дорогие друзья! Из сегодняшнего выпуска вы узнаете, почему уголовное дело о гибели туристов в районе горы Отортен было без номера. Все ломают голову над этим вопросом.
Но никакой тайны здесь нет!

Кунцевич продолжает компостировать нам мозги. Он пригласил юриста Евгения Черноусова, адвоката Московской коллегии адвокатов, который надел погоны в 1968 году. Запомните эту цифру!

Черноусов - квалифицированный юрист. Но я допускаю, что этот человек не знал того, чего я вам сейчас расскажу.



А может быть, Черноусов это знает, но по просьбе Кунцевича (или по иной причине) он не говорит нам то, что я вам сегодня расскажу.

Основанием для возбуждения уголовного дела является наличие достаточных данных, указывающих на признаки преступления. Если вы видите труп с пулевым ранением в животе (или в голове) или труп с ножом в сердце, то в этом случае достаточно данных, указывающих на признаки преступления.

Но если вы обнаружили замерзшего пьяного человека в лесу, в этом случае недостаточно данных, указывающих на признаки преступления. Потому что человек мог замёрзнуть сам, и никто ему в этом не помогал.
Поводом к возбуждению уголовного дела является факт получения прокурором (также следователем, дознавателем или органом дознания) информации о подготавливаемом или совершённом деянии с признаками преступления.

Прокурор города Астрахани, Петров на основе собственной практики выявил типичные случаи неподтверждения обращений о возбуждении уголовного дела.



Таковыми являются:

1) заявления о краже, при проверке которых выяснилось, что похищенная вещь нашлась;

2) случаи самоубийств и обнаружение трупов при отсутствии криминальных причин смерти;

3) сообщения о без вести пропавших, но не обнаруженных среди погибших или поступивших в медучреждения;

4) желание попугать человека, нанесшего обиду;

5) использование помощи правоохранительных органов для поисков утерянного имущества или разрешения гражданско-правовых конфликтов.

Нередки случаи, когда в заявлении речь идёт о преступлении, но вероятность его совершения требует проверки. Как же быть в этом случае?

То, что я говорю, это всё касается сегодняшних наших дней. Доследственная проверка - то же самое, что проверка сообщения о преступлении. Для чего она нужна? Это стадия, предшествующие возбуждении уголовного дела.

Основная задача доследственной проверки - это выяснить, есть ли состав преступления. Эту доследственную проверку регламентирует статья 144 уголовно-процессуального кодекса. Много кто её может проводить, имея широкие полномочия. Государственные органы не хотят возбуждать уголовные дела, которые потом придётся прекращать.

На доследственной проверке следователь находится в менее жёстких условиях. Ему комфортно работать, и он не стеснен в действиях. При этом предотвращаются возможности необоснованного производства по делам, не имеющих судебной перспективы... А если дело для суда бесперспективно, то его и возбуждать не надо.

Возвращаемся в 1959 год. В безлюдном месте на горе найдена потрёпанная палатка и замерзшие туристы. Нажа в сердце у них нет, пулевых ранений нет. Какие здесь достаточные условия для возбуждения уголовного дела?

Прокурор Темпалов не был уверен, перспективное ли это дело для суда. Ему никто не позволит открывать уголовное дело и присваивать ему номер. Ему надо провести то, что это сейчас называется "доследственная проверка". Если выяснится состав преступления, что кто-то их убил или кто-то из людей виноват в их смерти, то только в этом случае он мог присваивать номер делу.

Давайте посмотрим с помощью учёных-юристов, было ли понятие доследственной проверки в 1959 году. Для этого мне пришлось поехать опять в Российскую национальную библиотеку...


Была такая погода - дождь без снега.

Я заказала 4 книжонки: три книги старые (1950-1960 годов) и 4-ая фиолетовая книга. Это самая ценная книга. Авторы: Королёв и Лизунов. название "Доследственная проверка как часть досудебного производства".

Они всё про доследственную проверку здесь в этой монографии представили.



И доследственная проверка царских времен, и доследственная проверка в зарубежных странах. В этой монографии всё про доследственную проверку написано. В общем, на страницах 56-59 этой монографии есть то, что касается тех лет. Тут надо долго читать, я перескажу своими словами.
Вначале про уголовно-процессуальный кодекс 1922 года речь пойдёт.

В 1922 году производство доследственной проверки не было выделено в качестве обособленного этапа уголовного производства. Принятый 15 февраля 1923 года новый уголовно-процессуальный кодекс никаких существенных изменений в эту процедуру не привнёс.



То есть, не было доследственной проверки в те времена.
Стирались всякая грань между тем, что принято считать доследственной проверкой, и формальным расследованием... На странице 59 написано самое главное:

С принятием уголовно-процессуального кодекса РСФСР 1960 года, институт доследственной проверки впервые получил нормативное выражение.



То есть, до 1960 года доследственной проверки не существовало. Если поступило сообщение о предполагаемом убийстве туристов и было неясно, был ли там состав преступления, то до тех пор, пока следователь не выяснит, есть ли там состав преступления, уголовному делу номер не могли присваивать. Потому что, пока нет состава преступления, ясно, что дело не доживет до суда.

Иванов и Темпалов всё это время искали состав преступления, они все версии отрабатывали, но так и не нашли здесь состава преступления. Поэтому номер делу не был присвоен. Всё правильно! Это не уголовное дело, потому что в нем нету состава преступления. Это то, что сейчас называется проверкой сообщения о преступлении, или доследственная проверка. Поэтому здесь нет никакого номера. Но в 1959 году доследственной проверки не существовало. |
85
Case Files / Why the criminal case had no number?
« Last post by Axelrod on September 27, 2026, 05:27:09 PM »
Olga [GALANINA] tells us in her 10-minute video from late 2019:Why the criminal case regarding the deaths of the hikers near Mount Otorten had no number (2019-XII-7):



[–] Hello everyone, dear friends! In today's episode, you will learn why the criminal case concerning the deaths of the hikers near Mount Otorten had no number. Everyone is racking their brains over this question.
But there is no mystery here!

Yuri Kuntsevich continues to mess with our heads. He invited lawyer Yevgeny Chernousov—an attorney with the Moscow Bar Association who first donned an officer's uniform back in 1968. Remember that year!

Chernousov is a qualified lawyer. But I suspect there are things this man didn't know—things I am about to tell you.



Or perhaps Chernousov *does* know, but—at Kuntsevich's request (or for some other reason)—he isn't telling us what I am going to share with you today.

The grounds for initiating a criminal case are the existence of sufficient data indicating signs of a crime. If you see a corpse with a gunshot wound to the abdomen (or head) or a body with a knife in the heart, then there is sufficient data indicating signs of a crime.

But if you find a drunk person who has frozen to death in the forest, there is insufficient data indicating signs of a crime. Because the person could have frozen to death on their own, without anyone else’s involvement.
The grounds for initiating a criminal case arise when a prosecutor (or an investigator, inquiry officer, or inquiry agency) receives information about an act—either in preparation or already committed—that bears the hallmarks of a crime.

Petrov, the Prosecutor of the city of Astrakhan, identified—based on his own professional experience—typical instances where requests to initiate criminal proceedings were ultimately not substantiated.



These include:

1) reports of theft where, upon verification, the allegedly stolen item was found;

2) cases of suicide or the discovery of a body where there was no evidence of foul play;

3) reports of missing persons who were not found among the deceased or admitted to medical facilities;

4) a desire to intimidate someone who had caused offense;

5) seeking the assistance of law enforcement to locate lost property or resolve civil disputes.

It is not uncommon for a report to allege a crime, yet the likelihood of that crime having actually occurred requires verification. How should such situations be handled?

Everything I am discussing applies to the current situation. A pre-investigation check is essentially the verification of a report regarding a crime. What is its purpose? It is the stage that precedes the formal initiation of a criminal case.

The primary objective of a pre-investigation check is to determine whether the elements of a crime are present. This procedure is governed by Article 144 of the Code of Criminal Procedure. Many officials have the authority to conduct such checks. State agencies are reluctant to initiate criminal cases that might later have to be dismissed.

During the pre-investigation check stage, the investigator faces fewer constraints; the working conditions are more comfortable, and their actions are not unduly restricted. This prevents the initiation of unjustified proceedings for cases that have no prospect of success in court... After all, if a case has no chance of succeeding in court, there is no need to open it in the first place.

Let’s go back to 1959. A battered tent and the frozen bodies of hikers are found in a remote mountain location. There are no stab wounds to the heart, no gunshot wounds. What grounds would be sufficient here to initiate a criminal case?

Prosecutor Tempalov wasn't sure if the case had any real prospect of going to court. No one would let him officially open a criminal case and assign it a file number. He first had to conduct what is known today as a "pre-investigation inquiry." Only if evidence of a crime emerged—indicating that someone had killed them or was otherwise responsible for their deaths—could he assign a case number.

Let’s consult legal scholars to see if the concept of a "pre-investigation inquiry" even existed in 1959. To do this, I had to make another trip to the National Library of Russia...
The weather was like this: rain, but no snow.

I requested four small books: three older ones (from the 1950s and 60s) and a fourth, purple one. That last one was the most valuable. The authors were Korolyov and Lizunov; the title was *Pre-Investigation Inquiry as Part of Pre-Trial Proceedings*.

They covered everything regarding pre-investigation inquiries in this monograph.



They discussed pre-investigation inquiries from the Tsarist era as well as those in foreign countries. Everything there is to know about the subject is in this monograph. In short, pages 56–59 contain the information relevant to that period.

It’s a long read, so I’ll summarize it in my own words. We begin with the Code of Criminal Procedure of 1922.

In 1922, the conduct of a pre-investigation inquiry was not distinguished as a separate stage of criminal proceedings. The new Code of Criminal Procedure, adopted on February 15, 1923, introduced no significant changes to this procedure.
In other words, there was no such thing as a pre-investigation inquiry back then. The line between what is conventionally considered a pre-investigation inquiry and a formal investigation was blurred... The most important point is stated on page 59:

With the adoption of the 1960 Code of Criminal Procedure of the RSFSR, the concept of the pre-investigation inquiry was given a statutory basis for the first time.



In other words, the pre-investigation inquiry did not exist prior to 1960. If a report regarding the suspected murder of hikers was received and it was unclear whether the elements of a crime were present, a criminal case number could not be assigned until the investigator had determined whether such elements existed. After all, without the elements of a crime, it is clear the case would never make it to trial.

Ivanov and Tempalov spent that entire time looking for the elements of a crime and pursuing various theories, but they never found the necessary elements. That is why no case number was assigned. It makes perfect sense! It wasn't a criminal case because the elements of a crime were missing. This is what is now known as the verification of a crime report, or a pre-investigation inquiry. That explains the absence of a case number. However, in 1959, the pre-investigation inquiry did not exist.













86
General Discussion / Re: Slash, then walk?
« Last post by amashilu on September 27, 2026, 05:11:21 PM »
No new ideas so far ......
87
General Discussion / Re: Snow around the tent
« Last post by amashilu on September 27, 2026, 05:08:08 PM »
Yes, I understand what a slab slip is and how it works. But what I'm asking is, how would the stacked snow affect such a slip, especially if there was a whole lot of stacked snow.
88
General Discussion / Re: Snow around the tent
« Last post by GlennM on September 27, 2026, 04:59:21 PM »
There two things of note. First it the excavated snow covered the prints at the tent, this reinforces the scouring power of the wind. In fact the wind was so strong that one rescuer noted his hand held ski pole was blown horizontally by the wind.

Second, the L cut may have sliced through layers of snow, like layers in a cake, wind driven snow built up as the flow was obstructed by the tent. When it got too heavy enough, just like icing between layers of cake, the top layer slid over the tent, collapsing the middle and back, and creating a condition where the center section could not be re erected. With the tent blown down and covered in a heavy wind, the reasonable option was to clear our and bug out. It should have been a quick there and back to the woods, but that depended on an uncooperative Russian winter.
89
General Discussion / Re: Slash, then walk?
« Last post by GlennM on September 27, 2026, 04:49:52 PM »
Those who advocate for conspiracy simply do not have all the facts, so they invent them.

There was enough urgency for all to leave the tent by other than the front entrance. This is clear. I surmise the tent collapsed upon them with a weight of snow adding pressure. The threat of suffocation made those lying on their backs at the time  cut up and out.  Once out, there were few choices, the forest, Boot Rock, the labaz, or stay at the tent. The tent itself was ruined.  The forest was chosen simply because it had firewood and a windbreak. Running to the forest is risking a fall. Running separates the group. Running in the dark favors the one holding the flashlight. All must walk instead. I think the decision to do so was quickly made. Any delay just makes them that much colder. Their problem is that the supposed quick there and back plan fell apart when the weather did not improve. People made decisions that their bodies could not carry through.
90
General Discussion / Re: Snow around the tent
« Last post by Ziljoe on September 27, 2026, 04:38:53 PM »
From another hike but the dug hole is for a snow hole.





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