My theory and it is pretty simple.

[John Proxy]

Hello world!  New here but have been following this off and on for about 3 years.  Recently here in America there was an exploration documentary on TV that was done in 2019 retracing the tracks and going to Dyatlov pass.  It re-ignited the curiosity in me to look deeper into this as I have a lot of free time on my hands now.  As a little background, I have done a lot of digital forensic work on retrieving data and building a timeline of deceased individuals in cases of suicide vs murder here in the states and have a pretty good track record.

Here is my theory with the data I have observed so far.  It is subject to change based on conversation and other pieces of data that might disconnect my theory from the truth that I have not read.
I think we can all agree the tent is the epic center of whatever triggered the events that followed.  If we look at the last photos taken of them preparing a place to pitch the tent, we can see that the weather conditions have deteriorated even more than in the previous pictures taken in the morning.  What else does the picture tell us? 

https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Unknown-origin-Dyatlov-photos-11.jpg

There are only 4 people, which includes the person taking the picture working on the site.  Where are the other 5 people?   I think they were down in the ravine, making their snow cave as a backup plan if anything went wrong with their cold camp and if they were preparing a backup plan a fire would be part of it.  I believe the wood that was sawed off the tree was in fact done so but not in the middle of the night during a snow and violent windstorm but earlier in the afternoon.   That is why there are no saws found there.  They took them back to the camp after they completed their task.   Note also that the ravine is near a precious resource.  Water.  The tree line near the cache site they made does not appear to have water and appears to be harder trek than where they went into the ravine / tree line.  It is also closer to the planned route as well.

 I think we are concentrating too much on the fact that “someone” cut the tent.  I know what the forensics say in 1959 but there are no artifacts to support this conclusion I have found. From the data I read that the tent was two tents stitched together.   The tent was in disrepair, and they even wrote about having to keep it patched up.  I believe a very powerful katabatic windstorm (60-80MPH winds or more) came up on them evening, middle of the night, who knows but at some point, hurricane windstorm tore their dilapidated tent to the point they had to exit.    They had their backup plan, but they didn’t expect the storm and conditions they currently found themselves in.  It was far worse than they could imagine.

The hikers march single file down the tree line to fall back on their backup plan.  They walked like they knew where they were going in my opinion.   They get to the tree line and build a fire, and they go through the wood they had gathered rather quickly but it is simply not enough heat because of the extreme cold and wind.  I believe the rest of the group retreated to the snow cave and came out to check on their friends Doroshenko and Krivonischenko who were trying to keep the fire going and found them dead as they had been exposed to the elements more than the rest of the group.  They took their clothes.  These were the first people to die, I think.

While getting back into the snow cave it collapses, trapping 4 of the remaining 7 hikers.  Dyatlov, Komogorova and slobin witness this.  The campfire is a failure, the snow cave is a failure, and the only thing left to do is go back to the tent, get a shovel and possibly save their friends.  It would be the only reason in my opinion to return to the tent and not stay in the safety of the forest.  Hypothermia starts to sit in, and they don’t really realize how bad off they really are.

I think Slobodin skull fracture is the result of freezing out in the open with his neck possibly exposed.  He could also have fallen while walking back up to the tent from the ravine.  It is the only piece that looks like it could spin another theory, but I think those two scenarios are the cause for his injury.
It might just be that simple.

The other theories that have been mentioned I do not see the data to bring myself to those conclusions.  I do not see the data that supports.
1-   A missile test or some kind of radiation experiment. -  The whole place and everyone would send a Geiger counter off the charts.  The reason why radiation showed up on clothing and the explanation why the small reading is present makes perfect sense.  No craters or data showing anything explosive
2-   Humans forced them out of the tent.  - There is simply no evidence of any of this. With the current weather conditions that we know to have existed, no other humans were standing out in the middle of nowhere as they would be subject to freeze to death as well.
3-   Animals. – Again, there is no evidence to support this.  In the current weather conditions of the camp the animals were down in the forest.  The same place where the hikers were headed for the same reason.  Cover.
4-   Yeti, UFO, Ball lighting, Time Portal, poisonous gases. – The data just is not there to support any of these things no matter how outside of the box thinking is applied.  The data is simply just not there to make those conclusions.
5-   A fight or disagreement among the group. – I do not see the data to make that conclusion.  Fighting people don’t all walk down the mountain together and there would be physical evidence of clothes, being ripped or blood stained.





J Proxy
Peace on earth, goodwill towards men.

[Ziljoe]

Hi John proxy.

Welcome to the rabbit hole.

Just to start, I think there's 6 people in that two photos if you cross compare , at least 5 , so there's only 2 or 3 people directly missing from the photo from what we can see , or what we think we see.

The tent was definitely cut, whether that's during the incident of the fatal night or when the searchers tried to get in is open to debate..the description of it not being torn apart at least makes some logic . Someone cut across the grain/ weave and I personally don't have an argument against me that.

Water is definitely important.

I don't think they walked down the slope in single file, it was abreast ..

I don't think they had a shovel.


I think that the rib fractures are due to some snow collapse at the ravine.

Other than that I'm as lost as everyone.

[John Proxy]

"The tent was definitely cut, whether that's during the incident of the fatal night or when the searchers tried to get in is open to debate..the description of it not being torn apart at least makes some logic . Someone cut across the grain/ weave and I personally don't have an argument against me that. "

is there a picture artifact of this?  I can't seem to locate anything but a picture of the whole tent.

J Proxy.

[Ziljoe]

https://dyatlovpass.com/1959-search#the-tent

And here.

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-303-304

I'm sure there's more as I was looking at it today..there's three cuts that are recorded as specifically being done from the inside and across the weave. Closer to the entrance.

[John Proxy]

Thanks for the reply and info.  These were the ones I was referring to that show the whole tent.  I was kind of expecting to see something much closer up to the tent with a ruler etc.  There appears to be some other issues with the accuracy of the drawing as well.  What i find interesting is in the drawing on the link you provided with all the cuts measured and why some were there..  You know what is missing?  There is nothing show any of the patching that was described in the diary entries I have read.  Those are the things that having me questioning to accuracy as to it being cut from the inside.

J Proxy

[Олег Таймень]

Tourists and mountaineers cut their tents only in one case, when it is covered with snow during a strong wind. People are sleeping in a tent. The wind blows snow and the tent collapses under the weight of the snow. It becomes impossible to breathe and the tent is cut.

[Ziljoe]

In the second link there is a ruler in the photos . There is a third link that I was looking at today but I can't find it at the moment..it's a bit more detailed and I think it's in the case files. I'm not sure if patches as such were made or if some of the sewing was just reattaching the two tents along the initial sewing lines.

With regards to any sewing of holes or patches, I don't think that would be of interest to the investigates as they are self explanatory.

The point of the unexplained cuts in the tent fabric are ...1) they were not tares , as the description explains the nature of tares in the weave. They were cuts.
2) there seems to be scores on the inside of the fabric before the material/ weave is cut , these scratches extend before the cut . This suggests that whatever cut the tent , the blade or cutting tool , was done from the inside as opposed to the outside.

That's just a fact. Whether that was a searcher for example putting his hand in from the outside with a blade and pulling it towards himself , we don't know, but the reporting of the fact that the cutting of the tent material was done from the interior seems true. I don't think there's any reason to lie. How it happened is anyone's guess.

[John Proxy]

So I need to do some research on how tents are repaired.   Are they cut and then hemmed and then sew together?   Anyone know?  When you repair clothing you always doing from the inside.

J proxy

[Ziljoe]

I don't think you need to research on how tents are repaired? . Holes occur in canvas , their tent might have been a bit old for sure. So small holes could be stitched, bigger holes or tears may need a patch. But a tear or patch would be obvious to Investigators, they do not report the the ware and tear of the tent.

It's not a matter of repairing from the inside or outside as there were no repairs to the three large cuts ,1,2 and 3 . Cuts 1 , 2 and 3 went through the weave at a diagonal angle , which , as I understand it, what they describe means a cut and not a rip. A rip will follow the vertical or the horizontal of the weave of the material, not both.

About the number of people in the last photo , I made this poor attempt to show the movement, I can't claim to have noticed  this as it was inspired from another website where they link the two last photos in quick succession.

https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1562.msg24194#msg24194

[John Proxy]

The lack of identification of patches in the drawing and examination is bothering me.  They should be labeled as well.

J Proxy.

[Ziljoe]

Perhaps , I struggled with it too though if that helps.

The tent was made out of two similar tents , where it joined in the middle it would have had some serious stitching at some point in time.

There is no need to mention patches or stitching as that would be self evident. The investigators are only reporting what should not be there or what is there that they don't understand or is unusual.

A cut is unusual as opposed to a tear , a tear could be caused by the wind , the poor handling of the tent by the searchers etc. A cut is a deliberate action by something or someone ,meaning , the are reporting that those three cuts( there are lots of holes/tears as we can see in the photo) were done by deliberately, with no repairs , patches, or sewing afterwards. When the investigators received that tent from the helicopter that took it from the hillside and they got in the office to look at under a microscope, they found the side panels of the tent had been cut. They report that the cuts had been made from the inside as the material showed signs of the cutting instrument/tool/ knife starting and making marks before it had penetrated the material/canvas. That's all they report . We fill in the blanks and argue ....

[John Proxy]

"We fill in the blanks and argue ...."

Haha too funny.. Truth!

J Proxy

[John Proxy]

Apparently,  Natalya Saharova, who is a forensics expert and look at the case has observations about the tent examination that bothers her as much as it does me.

https://dyatlovpass.com/natalya-saharova-KP?rbid=18461

J Proxy. 

[Ziljoe]

The Dyatlov pass is full of experts , as are our governments and financial banking experts, yet people still starve and are poor.

I think she wrote this in 2014 but some things have come to light since.

Ultimately, everything seems to follow a slightly apathetic search and rescue process . A number of reasons are put forward for the delay but it starts on the 20th I think with helicopters and aeroplanes.

From the searchers perspective they were hoping, or expecting to find them alive , until the first body was found no one any facts to suspect anything.

A number of speculations are discussed amongst the various people involved from top to bottom of the command and at different times .  ( One being they might have tried to leave the country) Remember, we get hit with 5 months of information in one go with details that the searchers wouldn't have had , it's obvious to us , in hindsight, why didn't they take more photographs, why didn't they look after the tent,etc. We get frustrated and it can look like a cover-up from the information we now have .

There was another group of hikers that went missing or were delayed on returning from their hike, this may have caused some confusion with paper work and people getting the two incidents mixed up.

Every effort is made to find the route of the hikers and searchers are dropped off at the beginning and ending of the known route and in-between. This is a sensible search and rescue approach, there's no conspiracy in that action.

The tent is eventually found on the 26th , it has hard snow on top of it and the two searchers have a look inside, they say they used an ice axe to come in from the top and maybe made a hole when doing so, they later state that they weren't told what to if they found the tent, no one had been instructed what to do in the event of it being a crime scene, there was no reason to suspect a crime.

They found 4 bodies the day after , the first 2 were found by following the footsteps down the slope . More speculation occurs amongst the searchers , was it the wind, a hurricane, a rocket, Mansi  etc

The belongings are counted and documented at the tent , there are no immediate signs of foot prints around the tent .( Remember, the snow and wind have been blowing for 3 weeks) . The footprints that are found say 8 or 9 separate paths are found, some in socks or bare feet and some in boots or shoes.

When they find the first 4 bodies they are in socks or bare feet , which is basically the day after the discovery of the tent . Everything looks like they left the tent at went to the tree line under their own will or choice.

The sappers with metal detectors decided that it won't help because there is there is perhaps not enough metal on the rest of the victims so they prope the slope going down , day by day . The 5th hiker is found shortly after . From the autopsy of the first 5 hikers , nothing untoward is found other than bruising, minor cuts, frostbite and burns on the hikers next to the fire. Slobidin is found to have a fracture in his skull but no swelling at the fracture. This is suggested as falling. ( Later possible knowledge about freezing, found that as fluids freeze they expand and has caused minor fractures in skulls).

So that's all the information the investigators have up to mid March . Diaries are looked at and the photos are developed . Mansi are questioned, the tent is looked at and I think it was an expert, not some random seamstress.

From mid March until May the 5th , over 6 weeks , nothing is found, searchers are tired and perhaps burnt out. When the last 4 bodies are found they have decayed and this is explained in the autopsy. The rib fractures and skull fracture do raise questions because they are hard to explain for some as the damage is unusual in that environment.

We have a number of suggestions for these broken bones , I lean towards a snow cave collapse in that ravine directly on top of them. Others suggest they fell in to the ravine , perhaps through a snow bridge, teddy presents us with a fallen tree ( which there are tree ring dates of a fallen tree at the ceder) , others suggest a fight, clubs , outsiders.

I could go on but the point is , the investigation doesn't seem to be botched as such , it just got stranger as time went on. Silence and embarrassment by the institution's may have came after , they couldn't explain it , safety and procedures by the UPI would be questioned , the cold war is going on, rockets are being tested , everyone is secretive, there's not much they can do about it , it was an accident or....it's one of the 99 odd versions .

I suggest reading the case files and the radiograms if you haven't already, the reports seem quite factual and shows mild confusion with what they should be doing which leaves thinking that there's no cover up.

[GlennM]

If I understand this proposal, the tourists split in two groups, one to make camp, the other to shape a den. To me this is an unfair,division of labor based on a remote probability of needing a den. Next, if a den was made, then having a fire at the cedar makes less sense to me than waiting and making fire at the den.

[Олег Таймень]

We have a number of suggestions for these broken bones , I lean towards a snow cave collapse in that ravine directly on top of them. Others suggest they fell in to the ravine , perhaps through a snow bridge, teddy presents us with a fallen tree ( which there are tree ring dates of a fallen tree at the ceder) , others suggest a fight, clubs , outsiders.

Since you are so confident and have been studying the Dyatlov group for many years, this confidence is probably based on some facts. You have probably studied the topic of collapse of snow caves dug by tourists. There are many videos on YouTube of cave construction, where people build them, spend the night in them and film the whole process. Tell me, is there at least one case when a cave collapsed on people and broke their bones? Please provide a link to this case.

[Ziljoe]

We have a number of suggestions for these broken bones , I lean towards a snow cave collapse in that ravine directly on top of them. Others suggest they fell in to the ravine , perhaps through a snow bridge, teddy presents us with a fallen tree ( which there are tree ring dates of a fallen tree at the ceder) , others suggest a fight, clubs , outsiders.

Since you are so confident and have been studying the Dyatlov group for many years, this confidence is probably based on some facts. You have probably studied the topic of collapse of snow caves dug by tourists. There are many videos on YouTube of cave construction, where people build them, spend the night in them and film the whole process. Tell me, is there at least one case when a cave collapsed on people and broke their bones? Please provide a link to this case.

Олег Таймень , I can assure you that I am not confident about anything regarding the Dyatlov pass. I said I lean towards the fractures being caused by a snow collapse. The fractures seem to be where the bodies lie on the hard surface and have received a force from the opposite side.

There are a number of deaths each year by snow dens collapsing , sadly sometimes children and families making a snow den in their back garden. These are mostly suffocation but I think there's at least 3 cases in the media of snow bridges collapsing, one was a large snow bridge , another smaller and two young children got crushed . I can't remember the details but I think one died but the other definitely received broken bones.

I think the difference is the solid ground and obviously the mass/ weight above and also how the snow releases. I believe snow has slid off of many roofs on top of people but that pours off, so the mass/force is not in one sudden movement .

Somewhere in my previous posts/ rambling I provide links. I think one of the experts from zolos examination suggests that it was similar to a crushing incident like a mass of snow. Finding a partly made snow bridge or cave could have seemed like a gift . 

The ravine 4 are found under 3-4 meters of snow at ground level and I have to question why or how did they end up there. If there was no snow in the ravine on the night of the incident, then that snow drifted in and filled that whole ravine in the following 3 weeks ,I guess that's possible but I have to ask where the broken bones came from and who put the bodies there and why, I can't think of any logical reason for that .

For me, all the activity at the ceder and the ravine looks like an effort for survival and something went wrong . The Dyatlov pass is not yet concluded and I don't claim to be any kind of expert on any of it , I flex with what I think , I read as many ideas and opinions about it as I can.



 Олег Таймень , you obviously don't think the fractures accursed by a snow collapse, through your research and involvement in the case, what do you think caused the broken bones?

[Axelrod]

I don't understand why the theory is called simple. While I was reading this text, and then further objections to it, my head swelled.
I don't even know where to start the text, I'm so puzzled.

I recently compiled a whole book, as I see the theory of the incident (it's somewhere in the neighboring thread), and I see strong discrepancies with my version.
My version is closer to Ivanov's version, but it explains those things that he could not explain.
But I've m so many theories have been collected (I initially wanted to offer them for posting on this site, but Theodora is constantly traveling, so in the end I put them in a book.) so it is usual for me to analize and improve another versions< to find funny moments in them...

So, don't refuse from yout ideas!

Indeed, the photo shows 3 people in full height, and two hands of people who are caught up.
If you did not notice this fact, then you are a bad criminologist.
The sixth person is taking a photo. Krivonishenko with a sheath for a knife, which was probably used to cut the tent.
This is very likely.

Now about the missing people.

I heard the theory that 4 people went down for water from a blogger, an Orthodox priest named Leonid Glebetz.


Unfortunately, his own YouTube channel has now been deleted for political propaganda in other videos,
so I remember his theory about Dyatlov very approximately. But this was the first time I heard about 4 separated people.

On the other hand, it's good that he disappeared, otherwise I would not have resisted the temptation to place his theory in a book and offer it for the site.

If we develop this theory further, then it remains to assume that 4 people went for water (or for firewood),
personally for me, this theory seems strange, like a bad dream, because I have traveled in the Carpathians and have some experience.

If 6 people remained at the tent, in total we have 10 people. Presumably, this is the second Zolotaryov.
Perhaps he was carrying out some kind of mission. A man was found in a ravine, who on one hand resembled Zolotaryov,
and on the other hand he had strange tattoos on his arms (elbows), and his teeth didn't match.

I also had a version that the tenth man was Fantomas, who came from France to the figurine festival,
but the forum administration forbade me to develop this version.

[Олег Таймень]

We have a number of suggestions for these broken bones , I lean towards a snow cave collapse in that ravine directly on top of them. Others suggest they fell in to the ravine , perhaps through a snow bridge, teddy presents us with a fallen tree ( which there are tree ring dates of a fallen tree at the ceder) , others suggest a fight, clubs , outsiders.

Since you are so confident and have been studying the Dyatlov group for many years, this confidence is probably based on some facts. You have probably studied the topic of collapse of snow caves dug by tourists. There are many videos on YouTube of cave construction, where people build them, spend the night in them and film the whole process. Tell me, is there at least one case when a cave collapsed on people and broke their bones? Please provide a link to this case.

There are a number of deaths each year by snow dens collapsing , sadly sometimes children and families making a snow den in their back garden. These are mostly suffocation but I think there's at least 3 cases in the media of snow bridges collapsing, one was a large snow bridge , another smaller and two young children got crushed . I can't remember the details but I think one died but the other definitely received broken bones.


 Олег Таймень , you obviously don't think the fractures accursed by a snow collapse, through your research and involvement in the case, what do you think caused the broken bones?

We are not talking about suffocation in a snow cave. We are talking about broken ribs of adults whose bones have already formed and are strong enough. I myself have searched a lot on the Internet for similar cases. I have not found any. If you provide a link to at least one similar tragedy, I will believe that this is possible. I ask you to look for similar cases of tragedies.

[Ziljoe]

I've said I posted a couple before , I can't find them at the minute, they're in my posts but I think I refrained from posting a picture as I felt they were too recent so it would just be links and I didn't want to upset families of those in the article.

When I say children, I think it was teenagers and I know your not talking about suffocation but these accidents happen due to children and parents doing these activities so that's just what gets recorded more often and is easier to find.

It is much rarer occurrence to have a mass off snow fall all at once on top of a person that is at ground level. Most snow holes/ caves are dug into snow drifts closer to the top of the snow level with snow below.

I believe a snow den is when you dig to the ground and cover the floor with fir and make a roof . So these cases are extremely rare that are similar to what may have happened in the ravine .

I can't remember the words I used to find the articles and it took me some time. I've been looking through my old posts but haven't found the link yet. But there are references to medical data of transport accidents and  crush injures on rib fractures. The ribs break at the weakest point of the curvature from the force being applied. This is obvious in our minds when we think of an impact if a person was traveling in a car without a seat belt but I believe seat belts can also break ribs.

It is the nature of the break lines on the ribs that suggests a force and the rib cage is empty with curved bones . If the ravine 4 were lying on their sides or backs and 2 meters of damp snow released at once then I can see crush injures. The femur and other bones won't have been compromised or in positions of stress against the hard ground . There might have been some dislocation to joints etc but I don't know if they would have looked at that in the autopsy. ( Not that would have helped) .

I don't think we need to find a tragedy to believe that a mass of snow falling onto a ribcage on a hard surface could break ribs. That is possible, whether that's what happened at the ravine is another question.

I'll try and find what I found .

[Ziljoe]

Rescuers say the teens weren't crushed because several large boulders held up giant chunks of ice, creating a small space for them. After viewing photos of the rescue scene, Gelmini said, “it's hard to believe I lived through that.” Both suffered broken backs and injured ankles.

"The ice cave was in a ravine bordered by sheer rock walls on either side. The ravine had filled with snow, and a small creek, or cascade of melted snow, had carved out a cave, with a roof of compacted snow and ice. The boys were several yards inside the mouth of the cave when it collapsed."

[Ziljoe]

https://youtu.be/DlDxgo-L7DM?si=iQ7xhUuQjxZE_gX3

@30 secs a small part of this ice cave  thawing breaks off. You can get an idea of what 'might' have happened.

The ravine 4 might have been in a smaller version of what you see above and yes the consistency of the ice/snow would be different. But with sufficient density and weight , a roof  could break off and crush ribs  especially if they had been extending the lower part with tools, feet or legs. We know snow bridges or caves extend over ravines and streams cut pathways . We are all stuck with options to these ribs broke , a tree is a plausible suggestion which I don't rule out but that also raises other questions, as does outsiders, I lean towards some kind of snow collapse at the ravine because it seem possible and takes less jumps than some other theories. 

[Axelrod]

Similar case is described here:


(KP military observer): So, in 1976, we conducted exercises in Transcarpathia. The motorized rifle squad, working out the task, stopped for the night. They were taught… But fools teach, and they are smart… Dig a hole to the ground, lay out a fire, warm up the fire, remove it. He burned out, showered with spruce branches, went to bed. Otherwise, it's not interesting… They found a crevice. These wise men dug a hole that could not be reached with a hand, developed a fire, raked the fire, covered it with spruce branches. Saved by the fact that they put a sentry. After all, it is supposed to put a sentry in the field.

The sentry defended his own, came up, kicked someone in the heel that it was necessary to change him, settled down in his place to go to bed, smoked before going to bed… And at this time, a 4-meter cornice, which was higher, silently descended. The one who was sitting on all fours survived immediately, because when it hit him… he, like a hare, jerked forward in leaps, leaving two pairs of traces from the front and hind legs.

The sentry moved away, he sees: someone is running. And they began to dig out these smart people who were lying there, in a warm place. Two of them had severe fractures, although it seems like why? But firstly, the soil is frozen, on which, although the fire burned, it did not thaw the soil. And the second one had a machine gun at his side, and he had a fracture of all the ribs along the median line. The other has a damaged spine, and nothing more… Thank God, no one suffocated. They dug them up quickly. And so it's all right there.

[Axelrod]

I have seen only 3 videos of possible cornice here (in position from 800 seconds)
1)
(skip 13-14 minutes from beginning, please)

2)
(by Oleg Taimen itself)

3) Mistical trek in February 1999 (TAU - Ural Televison agency) - similar to Oleg Taimen

or here

Snow mass in video #2 (prelast winter) and #3/#4 (1999) is not a big, unlike video of winter 2015

[Олег Таймень]

I am not inclined to fantasize. There is a Russian proverb - "If only mushrooms would grow in your mouth...". I don't know how it sounds in English, but in Russian it is a very successful rhyme that characterizes fantasies.
There are facts of snow caves collapsing on people. People did not break their ribs during these collapses. Not in a single case. Such facts are on the Internet. They are not difficult to find and I looked for them and carefully studied them. Everything is logical there. If the snow is soft and can be dug, then it is safe for the ribs. This is not concrete. This is snow. This snow was dug. It was dug very recently!!!
There is not a single fact that a person's ribs were broken during the collapse of a dug snow cave. Since there are no such cases, it is impossible.
If anyone wants to fantasize, please do so. It is your right.

[Олег Таймень]

Here is a cave collapse. In Altai, the tourists' tent was torn by the wind. They had to dig a cave. In the morning it collapsed.



























Who can guess how many ribs were broken?

[Олег Таймень]

Now I ask for your proof that ribs break when caves collapse.

[Ziljoe]

Similar case is described here:


(KP military observer): So, in 1976, we conducted exercises in Transcarpathia. The motorized rifle squad, working out the task, stopped for the night. They were taught… But fools teach, and they are smart… Dig a hole to the ground, lay out a fire, warm up the fire, remove it. He burned out, showered with spruce branches, went to bed. Otherwise, it's not interesting… They found a crevice. These wise men dug a hole that could not be reached with a hand, developed a fire, raked the fire, covered it with spruce branches. Saved by the fact that they put a sentry. After all, it is supposed to put a sentry in the field.

The sentry defended his own, came up, kicked someone in the heel that it was necessary to change him, settled down in his place to go to bed, smoked before going to bed… And at this time, a 4-meter cornice, which was higher, silently descended. The one who was sitting on all fours survived immediately, because when it hit him… he, like a hare, jerked forward in leaps, leaving two pairs of traces from the front and hind legs.

The sentry moved away, he sees: someone is running. And they began to dig out these smart people who were lying there, in a warm place. Two of them had severe fractures, although it seems like why? But firstly, the soil is frozen, on which, although the fire burned, it did not thaw the soil. And the second one had a machine gun at his side, and he had a fracture of all the ribs along the median line. The other has a damaged spine, and nothing more… Thank God, no one suffocated. They dug them up quickly. And so it's all right there.

Thank you axelrod. There was definitely a lot of snow in the ravine in 1959 .

[Ziljoe]

I am not inclined to fantasize. There is a Russian proverb - "If only mushrooms would grow in your mouth...". I don't know how it sounds in English, but in Russian it is a very successful rhyme that characterizes fantasies.
There are facts of snow caves collapsing on people. People did not break their ribs during these collapses. Not in a single case. Such facts are on the Internet. They are not difficult to find and I looked for them and carefully studied them. Everything is logical there. If the snow is soft and can be dug, then it is safe for the ribs. This is not concrete. This is snow. This snow was dug. It was dug very recently!!!
There is not a single fact that a person's ribs were broken during the collapse of a dug snow cave. Since there are no such cases, it is impossible.
If anyone wants to fantasize, please do so. It is your right.

Relax Олег Таймень. If we take away one fantasy , we only replace it with another fantasy . I note you have not committed to what your fantasy is?.

Because there are no such cases , or you have not found one does not make it impossible. The snow caves you give as examples are slightly different, the ground is softer and the snow seems to slowly break off or collapse as opposed to a sudden mass. The total roof has not collapsed.

It would be the speed and mass of that impact with bodies next to the hard ground that raises the probability. Snow cave / hole / dugout and snow consistency will all play it's part.

We have a saying in the UK " don't get you knickers in a twist"  , I don't know how it sounds in Russian but in English it characterizes people that get annoyed at something without good reason.

So you rule out a snow collapse causing the broken ribs, please bring forward your factual explanation. 

[Ziljoe]

Олег Таймень.,

I find you without any comment about your views or explanation of the Dyatlov pass incident.

Not that you don't comment and give other people's opinions.

I for one would love to hear your thoughts. You have put nothing forward,  yet you have the swagger of someone that knows more than others.

Explain yourself and thoughts.