August 03, 2021, 05:32:26 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

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R.I.P. / Re: R.I.P. Igor Pavlov
« Last post by Teddy on August 02, 2021, 12:45:20 AM »
40 days since the passing of IGOR PAVLOV

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Non-DP Related Mysteries! / Re: New development in the "Tamám Shud" mystery
« Last post by Manti on July 30, 2021, 05:44:54 PM »
Yes I was also thinking that it doesn't look like she was a spy.

A spy would have "real" documents with valid addresses, they wouldn't want to be uncovered when someone simply checks whether the street really exists.And also a spy wouldn't use a black market gun. Although maybe it wasn't her gun.
And anyway they would only be a concern for the Norwegian state's counterintelligence, who I assume would want to capture and question her, instead of murdering her in this way...


Anyway the article is very thorough but one thing I found odd is that there is no mention of CCTV at all. Surely there was CCTV in the hotel and also on the streets and they could at least have an idea of the times when she left/returned to the hotel based on that?
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Non-DP Related Mysteries! / Re: New development in the "Tamám Shud" mystery
« Last post by RMK on July 29, 2021, 04:12:24 PM »
So she said she is from Belgium, but spoke German without an accent, and then on the check-in card at the hotel, wrote down a fake Belgian address and then country as "Belgium"?

But that is not the spelling of the country's name in either German, French/Walloon, or Dutch/Flemish (languages spoken in Belgium), or even in Norwegian. Very odd...
That's a perceptive observation, Manti.

The instructions and prompts on the paper registration form are in Norwegian and English.  I wonder if that psychologically primed her to use the English name of the country when writing out her address? 

Or perhaps, when she memorized that fake address, she assumed she would only need use it within Belgium.  Then, when she filled out the form, she wrote out the address and squeezed in the country name almost as an afterthought (which seems plausible from visual inspection of the form).  And, when she did so, she wasn't sure what the country was called in Norwegian, so she used the English name for it, knowing that the hotel staff spoke English.  I admit, that's not a great explanation though, because we know some of the hotel staff spoke German, and at any rate, the meaning of the German "Belgien" should be plain enough. 

And, from a different angle: assuming she'd only use the fake address inside Belgium doesn't exactly say "competent international spy" to me.  So, maybe she wasn't a spy.  Or maybe she was, but not a very good one, and that's why she ended up dead under mysterious circumstances.
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Non-DP Related Mysteries! / Re: New development in the "Tamám Shud" mystery
« Last post by Manti on July 29, 2021, 11:03:26 AM »
So she said she is from Belgium, but spoke German without an accent, and then on the check-in card at the hotel, wrote down a fake Belgian address and then country as "Belgium"?

But that is not the spelling of the country's name in either German, French/Walloon, or Dutch/Flemish (languages spoken in Belgium), or even in Norwegian. Very odd...
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General Discussion / Re: The devil is in the details
« Last post by Investigator on July 27, 2021, 02:41:55 PM »
As to the obvious interpretation:  problem with the tent that they thought required immediate action,
But the tent was found a month later with one side of it still standing, and one cut or tear. That is a problem but not an immediate one, it can be repaired like they have done on previous nights. And even if, let's assume, the tent was shredded to pieces somehow, that is still not an immediate emergency, they could still take 3 minutes and put on footwear, coats, gloves, and grab the saw and then walk down to the forest to start a campfire. Even a shredded tent is no worse than being outside with no shelter at all.

This is where so many make mistakes in investigations, and I have mentioned in other threads an example from the Pat Brown book on profilling (the suicide that required 3 experts before they could figure it out, and in that case there were two good possibilities!).  If you want to try and recreate the two canvas tents sewn together under similar weather conditions with several people inside and no heat, then we would have something to talk about.  Before that is done, all we can do is look at what we have.  We do know that tents can develop icing or hard snow on their exteriors, and if part of the their tent was collapsing, they may have thought they had to attend to it ASAP and left it in a situation that they believed was "secure."  We also don't know what was frozen, such as the boots they used during the day, and what they could have put on, even if they wanted to dress better.  They (at least some of them) clearly thought they could survive by getting to the trees and starting a fire, so that is a key point here, even if they were 100% wrong about that, as we look back upon it.  What they thought of the tent when they left it is less clear.  Stay with what is clearer and then work back to the less clear elements of the case/incident.
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Non-DP Related Mysteries! / Re: New development in the "Tamám Shud" mystery
« Last post by RMK on July 26, 2021, 11:23:38 AM »
Here is a very thorough write-up about the Jennifer Fairgate case.
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Non-DP Related Mysteries! / Re: New development in the "Tamám Shud" mystery
« Last post by KFinn on July 26, 2021, 09:40:36 AM »
Recently I have read about a case with similar details, for example all identifying tags removed from belongings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isdal_Woman

I'm familiar with the case of the Isdal Woman.  It's another case where I really do think it's possible that the deceased John/Jane Doe was a spy.  I also think there's a strong possibility that the Isdal Woman was not a spy, but instead a sophisticated scam artist, which is why she apparently had passports for least 8 aliases.  You know--for impersonating other people, or for adopting the identity of some nonexistent person, all as part of various fraudulent schemes for money.

Jennifer Fairgate (a.k.a. Jennifer Fergate), who also died in Norway, is yet another case where I think the unidentified decedent could be a spy.  I don't really know of a good source for this case, but this seems reasonably complete.

Thank you!!!!  I've been racking my brain trying to remember Fairgate!  I knew it was a similar case but could not remember the name! 
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Non-DP Related Mysteries! / Re: New development in the "Tamám Shud" mystery
« Last post by RMK on July 26, 2021, 09:29:25 AM »
Recently I have read about a case with similar details, for example all identifying tags removed from belongings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isdal_Woman

I'm familiar with the case of the Isdal Woman.  It's another case where I really do think it's possible that the deceased John/Jane Doe was a spy.  I also think there's a strong possibility that the Isdal Woman was not a spy, but instead a sophisticated scam artist, which is why she apparently had passports for least 8 aliases.  You know--for impersonating other people, or for adopting the identity of some nonexistent person, all as part of various fraudulent schemes for money.

Jennifer Fairgate (a.k.a. Jennifer Fergate), who also died in Norway, is yet another case where I think the unidentified decedent could be a spy.  I don't really know of a good source for this case, but this seems reasonably complete.
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General Discussion / The devil is in the details
« Last post by Monty on July 25, 2021, 01:15:46 PM »
Reply #12 is my preferred explanation but needs to explain why they left so ill equipped. Manti raises again the points I would harmonise. No chance in hell would they walk off and then one hour later think, oh my toes are cold.
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