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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Олег Таймень on Today at 02:10:02 PM »

The bottom line is that the Dyatlov case is unlike any other in the long history of hiking tragedies. It beckons to us for answers. It zeroes in on that part of the brain that can't resist the challenge of so great a mystery.

Well, why weren’t there similar tragedies..? Were. For example, the death of climbers in 1955. Here is a similar tragedy, where the participants cut the tent due to suffocation and left it without warm clothes. We moved to another tent. Then, freezing, they left the second tent and went downstairs. All but one died.. http://www.mountain.ru/article/article_display1.php?article_id=8690

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by MDGross on Today at 11:23:22 AM »

Yes, hikers perish tragically every year. But what makes the Dyatlov case unlike any other is: 1. Why would all nine hikers exit their tent in the middle of the night and walk nearly a mile to the forest below, and most of them fatally underdressed? It wasn't a question IF hypothermia was going to kill them, but rather HOW SOON. Why didn't they walk a hundred meters and then stop for a moment and try to determine what was happening? Why not send a couple of guys back to assess the situation? Had the slab stopped moving? Could the snow on the tent be quickly removed? Was walking to the forest their only option?

2. How did three of the nine suffer injuries so severe as to be fatal? There are countless speculations, but only Igor's and Teddy's idea makes sense to me.

The bottom line is that the Dyatlov case is unlike any other in the long history of hiking tragedies. It beckons to us for answers. It zeroes in on that part of the brain that can't resist the challenge of so great a mystery.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Ziljoe on Today at 10:13:42 AM »

on the whole we can observe the frustration and potential blame towards those in charge of the hike at the UPI not following proper guidelines. This seems to include the failure to have proper documentation of the route and the proper contact date of the return arrival with any contingency plans. It seems there's a disbelief by the investigators of the sloppy approach by the UPI to signing off these hikes.

But it was not out of the ordinary. It is applicable to all the hikes and practices pre-Dyatlov. As so many times Askinadzi said, there was before Dyatlov and after Dyatlov era in signing off papers. A tragedy happened after which they tightened many screws and yet it doesn't explain what happened. This case has the advantage of a massive unprecedented search and rescue operation. Many, the number 50 comes to mind for just that year perish in the mountains and we haven't heard anything about them. Dyatlov case is very rich compared to any other. We are lucky to have what we have.

To me what is frustrating is that they didn't treat it as a crime scene.

I couldn't agree more teddy. Looking at similar UK incidents, historical and recent , those doing investigations semm to highlight failures by those in charge of such hikes.

Everything is fine until it's not fine. It doesn't seem to be out of the ordinary in such that everyone was a bit sloppy , but out of the 50 that perished that year that year, is there survivors and explanations?

Hope that makes sense, I know that there were other hikes/rafting with deaths pre Dyatlov but I've read there was reasonable explanations.

I understand the frustration about they didn't treat like a crime scene, at least not in the first weeks. I don't think any hiking catastrophe is treated like a crime scene, why would they treat like a crime scene?

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Teddy on Today at 09:07:23 AM »

This case has the advantage of a massive unprecedented search and rescue operation.

The reason for this is the same why would anyone move the bodies - it was a special time for the regime and everything was amplified by the focus of attention on the man struggling for power, Khrushchev.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Teddy on Today at 08:45:22 AM »

on the whole we can observe the frustration and potential blame towards those in charge of the hike at the UPI not following proper guidelines. This seems to include the failure to have proper documentation of the route and the proper contact date of the return arrival with any contingency plans. It seems there's a disbelief by the investigators of the sloppy approach by the UPI to signing off these hikes.

But it was not out of the ordinary. It is applicable to all the hikes and practices pre-Dyatlov. As so many times Askinadzi said, there was before Dyatlov and after Dyatlov era in signing off papers. A tragedy happened after which they tightened many screws and yet it doesn't explain what happened. This case has the advantage of a massive unprecedented search and rescue operation. Many, the number 50 comes to mind for just that year perish in the mountains and we haven't heard anything about them. Dyatlov case is very rich compared to any other. We are lucky to have what we have.

To me what is frustrating is that they didn't treat it as a crime scene.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Ziljoe on Today at 08:30:48 AM »

We struggle with this case, but I am told that perhaps half of murders go unsolved. In fact, there is such a thing as a misdemeanor murder, a case so old and lacking in evidence that it is useless to keep it active. I do not think the DP9 were murdered, far from it, but a break in a cold case seems to come from using improved technology with old clues. Agaun, Teddy et.al. are using forensic methods not employed in 1959. This is to her credit.

An identified fault in trying to solve mysteries is one of forming a hypothesis too soon and force fitting facts to it ( eg. I know he did the crime and now I will prove it). The other approach is to gather the evidence and then generate an hypothesize.  You, Ziljoe, are astute in your open minded and even handed assessment of the evidence, but I think we agree that unless there is a breakthrough owing to discovery or refined technology, the investigation stalls out just like many, many unsolved mysteries.

At the heart of it is the issue of why they left the tent. Can technology ever address that question?  No, we just need a better way of inspecting the bread crumbs the case gives us.

I totally agree Glennm with your thoughts .

I can only try and look for evidence in nature because there is very little evidence of direct involvement by outsiders. I try to find evidence of outsiders within the documents and photos etc.

I continue to read the notes against the formal case notes and on the whole we can observe the frustration and potential blame towards those in charge of the hike at the UPI not following proper guidelines. This seems to include the failure to have proper documentation of the route and the proper contact date of the return arrival with any contingency plans. It seems there's a disbelief by the investigators of the sloppy approach by the UPI to signing off these hikes.

Teddy's approach gives us some tangible evidence , we can't dismiss a fallen tree and tree rings....

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by GlennM on Today at 07:05:40 AM »

We struggle with this case, but I am told that perhaps half of murders go unsolved. In fact, there is such a thing as a misdemeanor murder, a case so old and lacking in evidence that it is useless to keep it active. I do not think the DP9 were murdered, far from it, but a break in a cold case seems to come from using improved technology with old clues. Agaun, Teddy et.al. are using forensic methods not employed in 1959. This is to her credit.

An identified fault in trying to solve mysteries is one of forming a hypothesis too soon and force fitting facts to it ( eg. I know he did the crime and now I will prove it). The other approach is to gather the evidence and then generate an hypothesize.  You, Ziljoe, are astute in your open minded and even handed assessment of the evidence, but I think we agree that unless there is a breakthrough owing to discovery or refined technology, the investigation stalls out just like many, many unsolved mysteries.

At the heart of it is the issue of why they left the tent. Can technology ever address that question?  No, we just need a better way of inspecting the bread crumbs the case gives us.

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Ziljoe on Today at 06:09:21 AM »

"The reason could be some extraordinary natural phenomenon or the passage of meteorological intercepts, which Ivdel saw on February 1 and on February 17, saw Karelin’s group."

So, with only an ice axe and flashlight outside the tent ( which I assume were used for night time bowel and bladder needs) , the rescuers make the assumption that it was not human or animal intrusion which caused the DP9 to leave the tent.

Again, thinking of Tunguska, the forest, except for one identified fallen tree was not reported as unusual. It brings me back to a slab slide, but surely that would bury the flashlight and ice axe. Sigh!

In case files and the notes, they speculate about many reasons to why they left the tent, including, animals, Mansi, winds etc. What you read above is just a snap shot of recorded notes.

The axe and flashlight may have been buried but new winds may have eroded any sign of a snow slab/ slide. I would suspect the snow level on the slope would have gone up and down several times over the 3 weeks , like waves in the sea .

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by Teddy on May 14, 2024, 11:50:22 PM »

we don’t object to you today, make the most appropriate decisions on your own, ask for property, food will be sent to you from the storehouse after drawing up an inventory, use it for food against the evacuation of Borisov, we don’t object to the angry ones. What is the reason for sending Blinova ? The need to send Blinova. In case of clearly bad weather, continue the search with the whole group. bye the whole group . We'll send a telegram to your wife now. Specify the coordinates of the warehouse =Commission=

Serdityh is a name that Google translates like angry.
See the correct translation here:
https://dyatlovpass.com/maslennikov-notebook-2#13

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General Discussion / Re: Is there evidence for outsiders?

« Last post by GlennM on May 14, 2024, 10:41:34 PM »

"The reason could be some extraordinary natural phenomenon or the passage of meteorological intercepts, which Ivdel saw on February 1 and on February 17, saw Karelin’s group."

So, with only an ice axe and flashlight outside the tent ( which I assume were used for night time bowel and bladder needs) , the rescuers make the assumption that it was not human or animal intrusion which caused the DP9 to leave the tent.

Again, thinking of Tunguska, the forest, except for one identified fallen tree was not reported as unusual. It brings me back to a slab slide, but surely that would bury the flashlight and ice axe. Sigh!