December 03, 2024, 10:50:14 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: PASS without DYATLOV  (Read 43860 times)

0 Members and 9 Guests are viewing this topic.

December 31, 2022, 03:48:27 AM
Reply #30
Offline

Teddy

Administrator
Это круто! This is so cool! I know you are trying to find Ognev's grave. Please keep us posted on your findings. It seems like it pays to argue with you :) I learn a lot. I consider this a Xmas present from you to the forum.
 

December 31, 2022, 10:56:10 PM
Reply #31
Offline

Почемучка


I learn a lot.

Учитесь. Включайте сердце. Вы там были на склоне 1079 и ходили по осколкам разбитого сердца Зиночки. Я там не была и просто ладонью над картой - чувствую это. Она была солнышком. Все поисковики от УПИ - были мальчишками, сердцам которых было теплее от её улыбки и брошенного вскользь озорного взгляда. Они - никогда её не сдадут. Под пытками не сознаются - о том, что знают в чем причина.
Learn. Turn on your heart. You were there on slope 1079 and walked over the fragments of Zinochka's broken heart. I was not there and just with my palm over the map - I feel it. She was the sun. All the search engines from UPI were boys whose hearts were warmer from her smile and casual mischievous glance. They will never give it up. Under torture, they do not confess - that they know what the reason is.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 01:22:52 AM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 01, 2023, 03:15:04 PM
Reply #32
Offline

GlennM


What the H']] Is this all about? Are we doing hot shower songs on the forum? I thought we could do better.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 
The following users thanked this post: anna_pycckux, Ehtnisba

January 01, 2023, 03:41:09 PM
Reply #33
Offline

amashilu

Global Moderator
What the H']] Is this all about? Are we doing hot shower songs on the forum? I thought we could do better.

I must say, I agree. This is not an appropriate post.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 04:29:54 PM by amashilu »
 
The following users thanked this post: anna_pycckux, Ehtnisba, GlennM

January 01, 2023, 08:25:37 PM
Reply #34
Offline

Почемучка


What the H']] Is this all about? Are we doing hot shower songs on the forum? I thought we could do better.
Я ждала этого несогласия. Давайте на все посмотрим - в лоб.
Мне сложно понять, насколько Вы перечли все воспоминания ветеранов поисков. Будем считать - Вы их просмотрели хотя бы наискосок.
В них - одна цепляющая особенность. Про каждого участника из группы Дятлова - есть воспоминания без позитива. Хоть кто-нибудь ради справедливости - вспомнил и рассказал о нем что-то не особо приятное.
Есть один участник - о котором только слова восторга, удивления и симпатии. Это - Зина Колмогорова. Ответ давно лежит на самом виду. Все об него - спотыкаются.
Г. К. Григорьев только перечитывая Зинин личный дневник - уже сразу откровенно писал

I expected this disagreement. Let's look at everything - in the forehead.
It is difficult for me to understand how much you have reread all the memories of search veterans. Let's assume - you looked at them at least obliquely.
They have one catchy feature. About each participant from the Dyatlov group - there are memories without positive. For the sake of justice, at least someone remembered and told something not very pleasant about him.
There is one participant - about which only words of delight, surprise and sympathy. This is Zina Kolmogorova. The answer lies in plain sight for a long time. Everyone stumbles about him.
G.K. Grigoriev, only rereading Zinin's personal diary, immediately wrote frankly
Quote
Блокнот Г. К. Григорьева Ураган в горах-3
https://proza.ru/2013/11/21/1193
Quote
Только в рюкзаке Зины Колмогоровой сохранился дневник. Я его переписал потом. Когда я переписывал дневник, мои губы шептали:  "Зина, милая, я никогда не видел тебя, но мне так жалко тебя".

Даже о ней мертвой, кому довелось увидеть её в морге - только слова удивления и восхищения.
Even about her dead, who happened to see her in the morgue - only words of surprise and admiration.
http://samlib.ru/p/piskarewa_m_l/pavlov.shtml
Quote
Папа мой, Василий Алексеевич Павлов, первый заместитель председателя облисполкома, тоже был на поисках. При нем нашли 4 трупа, и потом он был на вскрытии Зины Колмогоровой...
Папа наверняка знал больше, чем остальные, но ничего никогда более не рассказывал, умел держать язык за зубами. Единственное, что сказал, что "у Зины очень красивая фигура".

Что Вы решили сделать лучше? Правду? Правда всегда такая как есть. Если не закрывать на неё глаза.
What did you decide to do better? The truth? The truth is always the way it is. If you don't close your eyes.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 08:54:45 PM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 01, 2023, 08:41:49 PM
Reply #35
Offline

GlennM


You are still doing it and being snarky to boot. Not appreciated. Let's move on please. If you have a point to make, please do so directly and translate it so there is no confusion. When you use Russian slang and Russian metaphors, things get lost in the translation. If you think you know something, then say it.. Truth is simple, my friend.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.
 
The following users thanked this post: anna_pycckux, Ehtnisba

January 01, 2023, 09:01:41 PM
Reply #36
Offline

Почемучка



I must say, I agree. This is not an appropriate post.

Да куда ж с добром...Фотографии в морге погибших участников - засмотрены до дыр, уже мало и этого. Их - раскрасили чтоб ничего не упустить. Чтобы "по запаху" - выйти на причину. Все видят картинку и не собираются видеть энергетику. Я могу это понять. Хочется сложного. Вместо простого  - как всегда это бывает.

Я полагаю, Вы читаете на русском языке. Давайте-ка я Вам все ссылки на Зинины тексты.

Yes, where with the good ... Photos in the morgue of the dead participants - looked to the holes, this is already not enough. They are painted so as not to miss anything. To "by smell" - go to the cause. Everyone sees the picture and is not going to see the energy. I can understand it. It is always more interesting than complexity and fantasies. Instead of simple - as always it happens.

I assume you read in Russian. Let me give you all the links to Zina's texts.

https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova-diary

https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova?flp=1#letter2
https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova?flp=1#letter6
https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova?flp=1#letter3
https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova?flp=1#letter1
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 09:10:51 PM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 01, 2023, 09:11:30 PM
Reply #37
Offline

Почемучка


You are still doing it and being snarky to boot. Not appreciated. Let's move on please. If you have a point to make, please do so directly and translate it so there is no confusion. When you use Russian slang and Russian metaphors, things get lost in the translation. If you think you know something, then say it.. Truth is simple, my friend.

Когда мне Гугл -переводчик дает перевод Ваших слов - у меня седины на голове прибавляется. Вы взялись понять русскую историю - без понимания русского языка. Без восприятия энергетической составляющей русских слов. У нас слова - чем-то наполнены. Это - не трупы. У нас слова - живые.  Как Вы поймете о чем пишет Зина своей подруге Лиде? Как? Если для Вас весь смысл сжимается к "мумии"?

Вы просите Вам переводить так, чтоб до Вас дошло все содержание. Как? Вы надеюсь понимаете - что значит слово содержание? Это не только начертание букв на белом фоне.

When Google Translate gives me a translation of your words, my head grows gray. You undertook to understand Russian history - without understanding the Russian language. Without the perception of the energy component of Russian words. Our words are filled with something. These are not corpses. Our words are alive. How will you understand what Zina writes to her friend Lida? How? If for you the whole meaning shrinks to "mummy"?

You ask you to translate in such a way that all the content reaches you. How? I hope you understand - what does the word content mean? This is not only the inscription of letters on a white background.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 09:28:46 PM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 01, 2023, 09:31:43 PM
Reply #38
Offline

Почемучка


Truth is simple, my friend.
Хорошо, давайте возьмем прием из алгебры. Доказательство от противного.
Что Вы поняли из всех моих объяснений? Кратко. Как формулу.
Я Вас спрошу только одно как наводящий вопрос. Вы сами - любили?
Не делили постель, не соблазняли и не сами соблазнялись. Любили? Когда если любовь взаимная - весь мир весна, а когда неудачная - весь мир холодный омут? Столько русских писателей пытались донести эти состояния души, когда душа летает и когда замерзает. Столько вообще писателей - потратило на это своих изумительной точности слов...

Okay, let's take a trick from algebra. Proof by contradiction.
What did you understand from all my explanations? Briefly. Like a formula.
I will ask you only one thing as a leading question. Did you love?
It is understood: to love is not to share a bed, seduce or be seduced. Loved? When if love is mutual - the whole world is spring, and when unsuccessful - the whole world is a cold whirlpool? So many Russian writers tried to convey these states of the soul, when the soul flies and when it freezes. So many writers in general - spent their amazing accuracy of words on this ...
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 10:07:50 PM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 02, 2023, 02:40:45 AM
Reply #39
Offline

amashilu

Global Moderator
This forum has deteriorated. I will keep checking it, but will not post again until the level of intelligence rises.
 
The following users thanked this post: Ehtnisba

January 02, 2023, 03:15:33 AM
Reply #40
Offline

Почемучка


This forum has deteriorated. I will keep checking it, but will not post again until the level of intelligence rises.
Спасибо. Русские никогда не обижаются когда их IQ (intelligence quotient) недооценивают. Это наша главная военная тайна.
Если Вам нравится считать что в поход пошли терминаторы, на которых напали другие дикие терминаторы, - воля Ваша.
Истина останется той что и была. В тот роковой поход пошли люди. Живые, со своими чувствами, переживаниями. Молодые и настоящие.
Кто-то тут ненароком бросил вполне здравый слоган. То была бомба. Психологическая бомба. В какой-то момент просто сдетонировало.
А погода добавила разрушительных последствий.
Thank you. Russians never take offense when their IQ (intelligence quotient) is underestimated. This is our main military secret.
If you like to think that the terminators went on a campaign, which were attacked by other wild terminators, you will.
The truth will remain the same. People went on that fatal campaign. Alive, with their feelings, experiences. Young and real.
Someone here inadvertently threw a completely sensible slogan. That was the bomb. Psychological bomb. At some point, it just exploded.
And the weather added devastating effects.
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 
The following users thanked this post: Ehtnisba, Elka

January 02, 2023, 03:33:01 AM
Reply #41
Offline

Ziljoe


It all sounds very intriguing.....
 

January 02, 2023, 07:26:56 AM
Reply #42
Offline

Manti


Ok I think things might be getting lost in translation here and maybe cultural differences also play a part.

But I have read your other post which posits that a member of the Dyatlov group was in the KGB and that is why the case was covered up. And now you are saying, not saying, poetically suggesting that Zina was in love, or someone was in love with Zina, and this lead to internal conflict in the group? Please elaborate

The truth will remain the same. People went on that fatal campaign. Alive, with their feelings, experiences. Young and real.
Someone here inadvertently threw a completely sensible slogan. That was the bomb. Psychological bomb. At some point, it just exploded.
And the weather added devastating effects.


 
The following users thanked this post: Ehtnisba

January 02, 2023, 07:50:42 AM
Reply #43
Offline

Почемучка


Ok I think things might be getting lost in translation here and maybe cultural differences also play a part.

But I have read your other post which posits that a member of the Dyatlov group was in the KGB and that is why the case was covered up. And now you are saying, not saying, poetically suggesting that Zina was in love, or someone was in love with Zina, and this lead to internal conflict in the group?
Печально. Вот что называется трудности перевода. Я про утаивание чего-то из впечатлений/знаний - говорила в отношении поисковиков от УПИ. Ведь именно от них нам досталось максимально информации? Аскинадзи В.А. проговорился, что между ними договорено о том, чтобы не бросать тень на группу Дятлова. Ну то есть чтобы все причины - уводить от подозрений на самих участников группы Дятлова.
Sadly. This is what is called translation difficulties. I'm talking about withholding something from impressions / knowledge - I spoke about search engines from UPI. After all, it was from them that we got the most information? Askinadzi V.A. let slip that it was agreed between them not to cast a shadow on the Dyatlov group. Well, that is, for all the reasons - to divert suspicion from the members of the Dyatlov group themselves.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1188.msg20029#msg20029

Из того факта, что все поисковики были знакомы с Зиною и очень симпатизировали ей и именно о ней нет ни одного дурного воспоминания: можно прийти к выводу что именно она как-то и связана именно непосредственно с гибелью всей группы. И эта причина - понятно и документально зафиксирована. 
From the fact that all the search engines were familiar with Zina and were very sympathetic to her, and it was about her that there was not a single bad memory: one can conclude that it was she who was somehow connected directly with the death of the entire group. And this reason is clear and documented.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1188.msg20083#msg20083

Именно психологическое состояние Зины - было той самой бомбой, которая сдетонировала как только случилась ночевка на склоне 1079. Какая-то бестактность и  необходимость быть очень близко рядом с тем, кто признался что он ловелас и ничего серьезного не хотел с Зиною. Бестактностью мог быть боевой листок "Вечерний Отортен". Там как раз укол в сторону Зины и её бывшего парня Юры.
It was Zina's psychological state that was the very bomb that detonated as soon as the overnight stay on slope 1079 happened. Some kind of tactlessness and the need to be very close to someone who admitted that he was a womanizer and did not want anything serious with Zina. The combat sheet "Evening Otorten" could be a faux pas. There is just an injection in the direction of Zina and her ex-boyfriend Yura.

Please elaborate

The truth will remain the same. People went on that fatal campaign. Alive, with their feelings, experiences. Young and real.
Someone here inadvertently threw a completely sensible slogan. That was the bomb. Psychological bomb. At some point, it just exploded.
And the weather added devastating effects.

КГБ - не было заинтересовано в том, чтобы история гибели была неафишированной. Наоборот, из этой печали для СССР - сделали преимущество. Историю подали как связь с неудачными военными испытаниями. Это игра разведок, чтобы думали что там достаточно недалеко действующий ракетный полигон. А его еще осенью 1958 года строить передумали. Именно по плохим климатическим условиям.
А про Юру Дорошенко и КГБ: это попытка обосновать - зачем он пошел в поход с этой именно группой.

The KGB was not interested in keeping the story of the death unpublished. On the contrary, they made an advantage out of this sadness for the USSR. The story was presented as a connection with unsuccessful military tests. This is a game of reconnaissance, so that they think that there is an operating missile range nearby enough. And in the autumn of 1958 they changed their minds about building it. It is due to bad climatic conditions.
And about Yura Doroshenko and the KGB: this is an attempt to justify why he went on a campaign with this particular group.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2023, 08:22:57 AM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 
The following users thanked this post: Manti, Elka

January 02, 2023, 09:03:22 AM
Reply #44
Offline

Manti


Interesting, thank you.

When I read the diaries - a while ago now - the impression I got was that the girls, I wouldn't call it love, but had a certain infatuation... for the bearded fella they met at District 41. Ognev.


 

January 02, 2023, 10:33:39 AM
Reply #45
Offline

Почемучка


Interesting, thank you.

When I read the diaries - a while ago now - the impression I got was that the girls, I wouldn't call it love, but had a certain infatuation... for the bearded fella they met at District 41. Ognev.

Нет, там любовью и не пахло. И даже увлечением - это не назвать. Скорее всего - интерес как к представителю около криминального мира. Уголовные элементы - большие таланты по созданию образа рыцарей кинжала и кастета.
No, there was no love there. And even a hobby is not to call it. Most likely - interest as a representative of the criminal world. Criminal elements are great talents for creating the image of the knights of the dagger and brass knuckles.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2023, 10:44:39 AM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 
The following users thanked this post: Elka

January 02, 2023, 11:02:32 AM
Reply #46
Offline

Ziljoe


Hi Почемучка.

I am struggling a little to understand. I interpret you are implying that Zina's love for Doroshenko may have been the trigger.

You mention the  "Evening Otorten"  and I suspect you refer to this entry.


SPORT

A team of radio technicians including comrades Doroshenko and Kolmogorova set a new world record for portable stove assembly - 1 hour 02 min. 27,4 sec.


I must admit that it seems sarcastic and humorous and written by one of the others. It gives some validation to the  "Evening Otorten"  actually existing. I would interpret that the author was noting the lengthy time spent in the tent by the couple. This may have been a rekindling of intimacy only to be rejected again.

You also bring my attention to  Zinas diary entry on 28/1/59( although written 28/2/58).

Lunch was an hour at 4 pm
After lunch we did just one more hike and stopped to rest.


I mended the tent. We lay down to sleep. Igor was rude the whole evening, I just couldn't recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove.


I now read this statement from a different perspective. "Igor was rude the whole evening, I just couldn't recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."

Given the size of the tent and lack of space , Zina chose to lie on the wood. It makes me wonder now that Igor's rudeness was not of a verbal nature and it was physical distance that Zina required?.

There seems that there could have been some sort of uncomfortable dynamic going within the group and it has been mentioned before. But would even some kind of fallout between 2/3 people cause the leaving of the tent?

I suspect you have more to add. Please don't leave us hanging.

 

January 02, 2023, 11:15:01 AM
Reply #47
Offline

Почемучка


Hi Почемучка.

I am struggling a little to understand. I interpret you are implying that Zina's love for Doroshenko may have been the trigger.

You mention the  "Evening Otorten"  and I suspect you refer to this entry.


SPORT

A team of radio technicians including comrades Doroshenko and Kolmogorova set a new world record for portable stove assembly - 1 hour 02 min. 27,4 sec.


I must admit that it seems sarcastic and humorous and written by one of the others. It gives some validation to the  "Evening Otorten"  actually existing. I would interpret that the author was noting the lengthy time spent in the tent by the couple. This may have been a rekindling of intimacy only to be rejected again.


О Боги перевода на английский язык...Скорее всего автор заметки про спортивные достижения просто наблюдал именно тот эпизод, после которого в дневнике Зины появилась короткая и безнадежная запись "Ловелас так ловелас".



Я уже моральную травму получила, поясняя - чем различаются представления о серьезности чувств и намерений для мужского и женского населения. Зина написала про это - прямо словами в своем письме Лиде от 1958 года. То что для девушек считается - падением репутации, то для парней - пустяки. Подумаешь позажимал по темным углам и лез целоваться.
Oh Gods of translation into English ... Most likely, the author of the article about sports achievements simply observed exactly the episode, after which a short and hopeless entry "Lovelace so Lovelace" appeared in Zina's diary. I have already received a moral injury, explaining how the ideas about the seriousness of feelings and intentions differ for the male and female population. Zina wrote about this - directly in words in her letter to Lida from 1958. What for girls is considered a fall in reputation, for guys it's nothing. Just think, he squeezed in the dark corners and climbed to kiss.


You also bring my attention to  Zinas diary entry on 28/1/59( although written 28/2/58).

Lunch was an hour at 4 pm
After lunch we did just one more hike and stopped to rest.


I mended the tent. We lay down to sleep. Igor was rude the whole evening, I just couldn't recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove.


I now read this statement from a different perspective. "Igor was rude the whole evening, I just couldn't recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."

Given the size of the tent and lack of space , Zina chose to lie on the wood. It makes me wonder now that Igor's rudeness was not of a verbal nature and it was physical distance that Zina required?.


Игорь злился не из-за ревности. До него дошло - что Зина может выйти на стадию кипения. Он увидел свою ошибку. Кого-то нужно было не брать в поход. Либо Зину, либо Юру.
Я сразу скажу, что Игорь - на мое понимание не питал к Зине уж таких сильных чувств. Ни один нормальный влюбленный - не позволит находиться рядом бывшему. Ни один. А Дятлов был Козерогом - это вообще невозможно для них. Они и так в себе сомневаются.

Igor was not angry because of jealousy. It dawned on him that Zina could enter the boiling stage. He saw his mistake. Someone had to be taken on a hike. Either Zina or Yura.
I’ll say right away that Igor, to my understanding, didn’t have such strong feelings for Zina. Not a single normal lover will allow the former to be near. No one. And Dyatlov was Capricorn - this is generally impossible for them. They doubt themselves anyway.


There seems that there could have been some sort of uncomfortable dynamic going within the group and it has been mentioned before. But would even some kind of fallout between 2/3 people cause the leaving of the tent?

I suspect you have more to add. Please don't leave us hanging.

Как говорится: влюбленный и сумасшедший для медицины - одинаковы. Крайняя степень отчаянья может выливаться во многое. Люди жить не хотят и что-то с собою делают. А если была бестактность, то Зина могла заполучить очень нервный срыв. Выдержанные и тренированные военные летчики - отправляли самолеты в пике к земле. Чтобы был только взрыв и конец.  Потому что не видели перспективы в своей любви, а тут - какая-то девочка...
As the saying goes: in love and crazy (insane) for medicine - the same. The extreme degree of despair can result in many things. People do not want to live and do something with themselves. And if there was tactlessness, then Zina could get a very nervous breakdown. Seasoned and trained military pilots sent planes in a dive to the ground. So that there was only an explosion and an end. Because they did not see the prospects in their love, and here - some kind of girl ...
« Last Edit: January 02, 2023, 12:04:35 PM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 
The following users thanked this post: Elka

January 02, 2023, 11:23:48 AM
Reply #48
Offline

Зайцев


Interesting, thank you.

When I read the diaries - a while ago now - the impression I got was that the girls, I wouldn't call it love, but had a certain infatuation... for the bearded fella they met at District 41. Ognev.

Нет, там любовью и не пахло. И даже увлечением - это не назвать. Скорее всего - интерес как к представителю около криминального мира. Уголовные элементы - большие таланты по созданию образа рыцарей кинжала и кастета.
No, there was no love there. And even a hobby is not to call it. Most likely - interest as a representative of the criminal world. Criminal elements are great talents for creating the image of the knights of the dagger and brass knuckles.
Допустим, ссора в группе. Откуда поломанные рёбра двух участников, замерзания через 6-8 часов тройки на склоне, валенки, один в палатке, другой на ноге ? Как это всё возможно технически ?
For example, a quarrel in a group. Where did the broken ribs of two participants come from, freezing after 6-8 hours of the troika on the slope, felt boots, one in the tent, the other on the leg? How is this technically possible?
Шапокляк сдвинутая старуха

The most documented version of the "Battle Mole Ricochet" at the link: https://dyatlovpass1.ru/viewtopic.php?id=6#p11
 
The following users thanked this post: Ehtnisba

January 02, 2023, 11:35:03 AM
Reply #49
Offline

Почемучка



Допустим, ссора в группе. Откуда поломанные рёбра двух участников, замерзания через 6-8 часов тройки на склоне, валенки, один в палатке, другой на ноге ? Как это всё возможно технически ?
For example, a quarrel in a group. Where did the broken ribs of two participants come from, freezing after 6-8 hours of the troika on the slope, felt boots, one in the tent, the other on the leg? How is this technically possible?

Там могла быть не ссора. А мордобой. Я потом прорисую эту картину маслом.
There might not have been a fight. And a scuffle. I will then paint this picture in oil.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2023, 11:48:45 AM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 02, 2023, 12:39:25 PM
Reply #50
Offline

Ziljoe


Please forgive my questions / thinking.

My on line translator has not been great, plus a bit of ignorance on my part, I shall openly embarrass my self. (Might be some others here). :0)

It was coming up "lovelace so Lovelace" , having had a more refined Google. I could find the interpretation of ,"ladie's man just/that/so ladie's man". This gives far more context.

So the picture I'm getting, is that Zina may of been humiliated, or at least that's how she felt in her own heart . The  "Evening Otorten" was the bookmark to be left at the high point on Otorten, which would left for the next group of tourists to find. If my memory is correct there is no original copy of the  "Evening Otorten" and has always been questioned of its existence.

This interpretation gives credibility to its existence and ties in with the groups internal relationships .

I'm not sure what you're thinking happened but I can see that this may have caused hurt in Zina. Whether Zina stormed off out of the tent, maybe by cutting her way out or sabotaging the tent so the hike had to be aborted. The  "Evening Otorten" would  be a bookmark for others to read? It does seem tactless although others may have not have understood her feelings for Yuri.

Igor may not have had strong passion for Zina , but her diary entry suggests wondering hands, so she moved to sleep on the wood. This is of course speculative .

To think outside of the box, I could imagine the group eating their food after settling down for their overnight camp.  , someone has written the  "Evening Otorten"  and it is read out loud for entertainment. There may have been laughter at Zina's expense and this is the trigger.  ?

 

January 02, 2023, 02:27:20 PM
Reply #51
Offline

RMK


The "five-legged horse" refers to this photo, yes?

"Пятиногий конь" относится к этой фотографии, да?
I see four legs and a tail.
I think the "fifth leg" is either the horse's tail, or is part of the sleigh.

You know, there was a user, Gorojanin, who posted a thread in 2020 to make the case that all of the Dyatlovites' photos taken after January 26 were forged.  He considered the "five-legged horse" to be evidence that the photo was a cut-and-paste job.  He didn't seem to make many converts...

Я думаю, что "пятая нога" - это либо хвост лошади, либо часть саней.

Вы знаете, был пользователь Gorojanin, который опубликовал ветку в 2020 году, чтобы доказать, что все фотографии Дятловцев, сделанные после 26 января, были подделаны. Он счел "пятиногую лошадь" доказательством того, что фотография была вырезана и вставлена. Похоже, у него было не так уж много обращенных...

Ok I think things might be getting lost in translation here and maybe cultural differences also play a part.
I agree with MantiПочемучка, you write many words, but the translation machine is not very good at preserving their meaning in its English output.

Я согласен с MantiПочемучка, вы пишете много слов, но машина перевода не очень хорошо сохраняет их значение в своих выходных данных на английском языке.
 
The following users thanked this post: Ehtnisba, marieuk

January 02, 2023, 10:35:22 PM
Reply #52
Offline

Почемучка



To think outside of the box, I could imagine the group eating their food after settling down for their overnight camp.  , someone has written the  "Evening Otorten"  and it is read out loud for entertainment. There may have been laughter at Zina's expense and this is the trigger.  ?
"Вечерний Отортен" - это внутренняя жизнь группы. Стенгазета. Он не предназначался чтоб его оставлять в туре как записку.
Но его статья про спортивные достижения - это сильный такой укол Зины. Скорее всего это и есть триггер.
"Evening Otorten" is the inner life of the group. Wall newspaper. It was not meant to be left on tour as a note.
But his article about sporting achievements is such a strong injection of Zina. This is most likely the trigger.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2023, 11:30:16 PM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 02, 2023, 10:42:32 PM
Reply #53
Offline

Почемучка


The "five-legged horse" refers to this photo, yes?

"Пятиногий конь" относится к этой фотографии, да?
I see four legs and a tail.
I think the "fifth leg" is either the horse's tail, or is part of the sleigh.

You know, there was a user, Gorojanin, who posted a thread in 2020 to make the case that all of the Dyatlovites' photos taken after January 26 were forged.  He considered the "five-legged horse" to be evidence that the photo was a cut-and-paste job.  He didn't seem to make many converts...

Я думаю, что "пятая нога" - это либо хвост лошади, либо часть саней.

Вы знаете, был пользователь Gorojanin, который опубликовал ветку в 2020 году, чтобы доказать, что все фотографии Дятловцев, сделанные после 26 января, были подделаны. Он счел "пятиногую лошадь" доказательством того, что фотография была вырезана и вставлена. Похоже, у него было не так уж много обращенных...



Только не поминайте лихо, пока оно - тихо. Это я насчет - Горожанина. Он уже всех достал своими взглядами. Там одновременно и край саней и хвост. Совпало так при движении. Физика раскачивания хвоста и физика шатания тянутых саней.

Just do not remember famously while it is quiet. It's me about - Citizen. He already got everyone with his looks. There is both the edge of the sleigh and the tail. Coincidentally so when moving. The physics of tail swinging and the physics of staggering of a pulled sled.


I agree with MantiПочемучка, you write many words, but the translation machine is not very good at preserving their meaning in its English output.

Я согласен с MantiПочемучка, вы пишете много слов, но машина перевода не очень хорошо сохраняет их значение в своих выходных данных на английском языке.
Машина перевода - это что-то. Мой оригинальный текст - только на английской раскладке. На русской - он повторно транслитируется. И там такой текст порою получается - что кондрашка может хватить. Мало слов - не получается. Такова особенность русского языка.
The translation machine is something. My original text is in English layout only. In Russian - it is re-translated. And there such a text sometimes turns out - that kondrashka can be enough. Few words - it does not work. Such is the peculiarity of the Russian language.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1127.msg20075#msg20075
« Last Edit: January 02, 2023, 10:50:29 PM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 

January 03, 2023, 12:11:36 PM
Reply #54
Offline

Ehtnisba


The "five-legged horse" refers to this photo, yes?

"Пятиногий конь" относится к этой фотографии, да?
I see four legs and a tail.
😁
I see 5 heads, one leg and three tails, but this that mean all along the horse was a "lamya" undercover and  ate them all, then got sick and vomitted 3 times starting from the cedar, running uphill and finally releasing himself by the the last meal into the ravine 😆😆😁😁
Homo homini lupus est!
 

January 07, 2023, 09:47:35 AM
Reply #55
Offline

amashilu

Global Moderator
Teddy, are you ready to give us any more information about Askinadzi's theory? For example, who did the military want to eliminate?
 
The following users thanked this post: Ehtnisba

January 11, 2023, 05:43:23 PM
Reply #56
Offline

Ehtnisba


This forum has deteriorated. I will keep checking it, but will not post again until the level of intelligence rises.
Спасибо. Русские никогда не обижаются когда их IQ (intelligence quotient) недооценивают. Это наша главная военная тайна.
Если Вам нравится считать что в поход пошли терминаторы, на которых напали другие дикие терминаторы, - воля Ваша.
Истина останется той что и была. В тот роковой поход пошли люди. Живые, со своими чувствами, переживаниями. Молодые и настоящие.
Кто-то тут ненароком бросил вполне здравый слоган. То была бомба. Психологическая бомба. В какой-то момент просто сдетонировало.
А погода добавила разрушительных последствий.
Thank you. Russians never take offense when their IQ (intelligence quotient) is underestimated. This is our main military secret.
If you like to think that the terminators went on a campaign, which were attacked by other wild terminators, you will.
The truth will remain the same. People went on that fatal campaign. Alive, with their feelings, experiences. Young and real.
Someone here inadvertently threw a completely sensible slogan. That was the bomb. Psychological bomb. At some point, it just exploded.
And the weather added devastating effects.
Пачемучка я люблю Ваш изказ. Now I must go into English, because Bulgarians understand Russian, but due to us learning Russian.
I just wonder what you mean about the other English users to read Russian - which for sure they don't know. You suggest them use translator? Or as I feel, the unfairness of us always using , studying English, but not a single English speaker thinks that should learn the national language of a country visiting or in this case sniffing into Russian mystery?
Just curiosity question since I feel the way I explained here
Homo homini lupus est!
 

January 11, 2023, 09:56:43 PM
Reply #57
Offline

Почемучка


This forum has deteriorated. I will keep checking it, but will not post again until the level of intelligence rises.
Спасибо. Русские никогда не обижаются когда их IQ (intelligence quotient) недооценивают. Это наша главная военная тайна.
Если Вам нравится считать что в поход пошли терминаторы, на которых напали другие дикие терминаторы, - воля Ваша.
Истина останется той что и была. В тот роковой поход пошли люди. Живые, со своими чувствами, переживаниями. Молодые и настоящие.
Кто-то тут ненароком бросил вполне здравый слоган. То была бомба. Психологическая бомба. В какой-то момент просто сдетонировало.
А погода добавила разрушительных последствий.
Thank you. Russians never take offense when their IQ (intelligence quotient) is underestimated. This is our main military secret.
If you like to think that the terminators went on a campaign, which were attacked by other wild terminators, you will.
The truth will remain the same. People went on that fatal campaign. Alive, with their feelings, experiences. Young and real.
Someone here inadvertently threw a completely sensible slogan. That was the bomb. Psychological bomb. At some point, it just exploded.
And the weather added devastating effects.
Пачемучка я люблю Ваш изказ. Now I must go into English, because Bulgarians understand Russian, but due to us learning Russian.
I just wonder what you mean about the other English users to read Russian - which for sure they don't know. You suggest them use translator? Or as I feel, the unfairness of us always using , studying English, but not a single English speaker thinks that should learn the national language of a country visiting or in this case sniffing into Russian mystery?
Just curiosity question since I feel the way I explained here
Перевод на английский язык, да еще совершаемый автоматом/машиной/программой - не доносит все содержание и нюансы текста на русском языке. Я создала новый мем. У меня хобби - их создавать. "Сто тысяч оттенков русского языка".
Русский текст лучше научиться читать в подлиннике. Или пытаться его перевести с душою и художественным подходом. Малый оттенок - и Вы уже не совсем понимаете о чем речь. Внесен градиент - и Вы вообще понимаете обратное от того, что Вам поясняют.
Русские не умеют говорить схемами. Наши тексты, даже в юридических документах где все должно быть как гербарий сухо и четко, - всегда наполнены нюансами. Кому не хватает образования и словарного запаса - пользуется ненормативной лексикой. Это тоже передача нюансов впечатлений и чувств.

Translation into English, and even made by an automaton / machine / program - does not convey all the content and nuances of the text in Russian. I created a new meme. My hobby is making them. "One Hundred Thousand Shades of the Russian Language".
Russian text is better to learn to read in the original. Or try to translate it with soul and artistic approach. A small shade - and you no longer quite understand what it is about. A gradient has been introduced - and you generally understand the opposite from what they explain to you.
Russians don't know how to speak in diagrams. Our texts, even in legal documents where everything should be dry and clear like a herbarium, are always filled with nuances. Who lacks education and vocabulary - uses profanity. This is also the transfer of nuances of impressions and feelings.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2023, 10:02:14 PM by Почемучка »
Between was and was not - the river of time. You have to be able to swim - not only in the water ...
 
The following users thanked this post: Ehtnisba

January 12, 2023, 07:40:42 AM
Reply #58
Offline

RMK


Перевод на английский язык, да еще совершаемый автоматом/машиной/программой - не доносит все содержание и нюансы текста на русском языке. Я создала новый мем. У меня хобби - их создавать. "Сто тысяч оттенков русского языка".
Русский текст лучше научиться читать в подлиннике. Или пытаться его перевести с душою и художественным подходом. Малый оттенок - и Вы уже не совсем понимаете о чем речь. Внесен градиент - и Вы вообще понимаете обратное от того, что Вам поясняют.
Русские не умеют говорить схемами. Наши тексты, даже в юридических документах где все должно быть как гербарий сухо и четко, - всегда наполнены нюансами. Кому не хватает образования и словарного запаса - пользуется ненормативной лексикой. Это тоже передача нюансов впечатлений и чувств.

Translation into English, and even made by an automaton / machine / program - does not convey all the content and nuances of the text in Russian. I created a new meme. My hobby is making them. "One Hundred Thousand Shades of the Russian Language".
Russian text is better to learn to read in the original. Or try to translate it with soul and artistic approach. A small shade - and you no longer quite understand what it is about. A gradient has been introduced - and you generally understand the opposite from what they explain to you.
Russians don't know how to speak in diagrams. Our texts, even in legal documents where everything should be dry and clear like a herbarium, are always filled with nuances. Who lacks education and vocabulary - uses profanity. This is also the transfer of nuances of impressions and feelings.
Почемучка, you write here about "nuance".  I fully believe that your writing style, in Russian, is full of nuance.  Indeed--the complexity of Russian grammar allows for a lot of clever wordplay that English simply does not make possible.  But, the subtlety of your writing confounds Yandex Translate, which does not fully render your intended meaning into English.  As a result, I often do not understand the point you are trying to make in your posts.  I believe that is a limitation of translation machines...after all, the Bulgarians in this thread (i.e., human translators) seem to understand your points perfectly well.

Почемучка, вы пишете здесь о "нюансе".  Я полностью верю, что ваш стиль письма на русском языке полон нюансов.  Действительно, сложность русской грамматики допускает множество хитроумных игр словами, которые в английском языке просто невозможны.  Но тонкость вашего письма ставит в тупик Яндекс Переводчик, который не полностью передает ваш предполагаемый смысл на английский.  В результате я часто не понимаю, какую мысль вы пытаетесь донести в своих постах.  Я считаю, что это ограничение переводческих машин ... в конце концов, болгары в этой теме (т.е. переводчики-люди), похоже, прекрасно понимают ваши замечания.
 

January 12, 2023, 08:31:00 AM
Reply #59
Offline

GlennM


Wars have been started by translation  errors. Truth is simple. We often use metaphors to express what can not be expressed directly. I will not be listened to, but I will say that if we stick to the factual evidence and explain how events happened. If we explain how we know how events happened, then we can conclude why events happened. The explanation will not  need metaphors and insults, sarcasm and false pride will no longer interfere with our investigation. In short, keep the flowery speech for your love interest and deal with the real world in a real way. How,precedes why.
We don't have to say everything that comes into our head.