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......................."I do not think there were any hikers posted or watching outside the tent."I agree that it is possible they did not have a sentry outside. I am not fully convinced of this , but it is a possibility...........................................
- why didn't the members of Dyatlov Group use the axes at hand ? where they to heavily engaged (attacked) to be able to take anything for self defense ?
- there should have been footprints of the attackers, from the forest edge all the way to the tent. Do you think the wind erased those tracks by covering with snow ?I find it peculiar that only the "8 or 9" footprints remained unobscured by snow.
- if the skiers were able to make a fire, and gather braches for burning, then for some time that means they were free from attack. Why do you think the assaillants left them near the cedar un-attacked ?
- if the attackers used sticks and clubs, how do you explain the lack of hit marks on Dyatlov, Doroshenko and Krivonishenko ? Could it be they were the least attacked ?
- again on the footprints: in theory, there should have been footprints of the attackers when they left the scene for good. Why aren't there any other footprints ?
- Further on the approach and withdrawal: I understand that the Dyatlov Group was following a mansi hunter trail. They actually encountered a hunter at one point. Could the attackers escape unobserved by the Mansi people ? After all, they required several days of pursuit, and several days to come back to North2... Some multiple days onto which they could have been spotted.
...........Some further aspects that need scrutiny, IMHO:...............See Reply #31
.................alecsandros-like subjects and questions.....- see Reply #32..............
Answer to above Reply #35
............. I do believe that Dubinina said to much and her diary entries revealed this knowledge, unconsciously, with her uncustomary angst and anxiety. She was young, strong and brave but opinionated at age 21.The Dalai Lama: A smart person knows what to say. A wise person knows whether to say it or not.
..........................................I also think it was "things said" by the Dyatlov Ski Tourists that produced anger, hatred and not to mention a murderous rage. ..........................................
I am really enjoying your hypothesis. I do believe the attackers came from Vishay. I also think it was "things said" by the Dyatlov Ski Tourists that produced anger, hatred and not to mention a murderous rage. The control group from the University that skied west was left untouched, even though they would have been easier to track, follow and attack in a timelier manor. The attackers followed, silently the Dyatlov group.I have asked this before on this forum: During the investigation inhabitants of Settlement 41 and 2nd Northern would have been questioned. Attackers could not have gone unnoticed while traveling to the Dyatlov Pass area, especially along the rivers, while traveling through Settlement 41 or 2nd Northern (if anyone was there) they would have been noticed, animals would have barked, cried and whined, even at night. Tracks and scents would have been left. There would have been witnesses. The Mansi hunters would be able to tell, especially, around their hunting areas if tracks or signs were from the Dyatlov group or the attacker group. I believe this part of the investigation was hidden from the public view.What did Yuri Yudin see?
So the problem that was, became the problem that was no longer, so problem solved and no longer is there a problem.So somewhere around Vishay in early 1959 there lived a sociopath ex-Zek with equally dangerous friends. This sociopath even though angered into a rage by a piece of paper and a young person's loose tongue in January 1959 had to have a previous pattern of severe violence and even murder. Wouldn't the local police force and intelligence be able to narrow this down easily? Do you think the murderer and his friends might have been eliminated by the powers that be in that area? Isn't this what Krushchev would want to know, in the end?
http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlovahttp://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova-2http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova-3In a nutshell, I now consider 2 neighbouring hypotheses, the main difference between the two is the "WHO". That is to say that the attackers were : • For: Hypothesis N°2 ====> A few foreign ex-zeks and patriots from countries suffering from Soviet oppression who had not yet been allowed (or able) to leave the Vizhay region. • For: Hypothesis N°2-bis ====> A few Stalinist Russians opposed to the reforms which had become more pronounced since the XXth (1956) Congress of the Communist Party in 1956 who lived in the Vizhay region.
Theories Discussion -> Murdered -> Murder Indead Re: Murder Indead July 22, 2020, 03:27:13 PM Reply #141https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=110.msg10194#msg10194 My answer to : Morski If we go for the "must be a murder" theory, few of the main questions I see reasonable are : (---> Questionss equivalent to "WHO", "WHY", "HOW")
Victims and Case Files -> Victims -> Lyudmila Dubinina -> Lyudmila Dubinina's premonition of her tragic death Re: Lyudmila Dubinina's premonition of her tragic death July 20, 2020, 03:43:19 PM Reply #17https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=433.msg10160#msg10160 My answers to : Teddy, Sabine Lechtenfeld, BottleBrunette
Theories Discussion -> General Discussion -> ClothesVietnamka March 26, 2019, 09:35:48 AMhttps://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=396.msg4583#msg4583Vietnamka explains his reasoning on the clothes found on the 9 corpses.I infer from it (solid hypothesis) that 1°:Kolmogorova, 2°:Slobodin, 3°:Dyatlov were knocked out (thus killed) while going down the slope of Kholat Syakhl.(Vietnamka writes only : "Did they die first ? While descending ?")In other words, 20 minutes after leaving the tent, Kolmogorova, Slobodin and Dyatlov were already lying inanimate in the snow and would soon freeze to death.But then the 3 attackers or killers did not know where the other 6 hikers who had disappeared in the dark were.Then the 3 attackers climbed back up the slope and rested in the tent. Later, around midnight, fire under the cedar tree allowed the attackers to find Doroshenko and Krivonischenko. To find out where the other 4 hikers were hiding, the attackers tortured Krivonischenko who did not speak and did not scream.Around 6 am the darkness being less deep, the attackers located the 4 of the den, attacked them and defeated them. To celebrate their victory, the attackers cut out some body parts from the defeated ones. Vietnamka thinks that "Kolevatov dies after the two Juris, but clearly before Tibo and Zolotaryov."
Theories Discussion -> Altercation on the pass -> Altercation on the passalecsandros June 26, 2020, 07:06:40 AM Reply #32https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.msg9765#msg9765 "why did not the members of Dyatlov Group use the axes at hand ? where they to heavily engaged (attacked) to be able to take anything for self defense ?"
---> Reply #45..... My one question would be the KSD group, weren't there some clothing exchanged on them? Which means they possibly did make it to the Cedar tree with the entire group in general.
---> Reply #46.... Those found in the creek seem to be wearing Lyuda's George"s and Yuri"s clothes (besides their own). From what I have been able to ascertain, so far, is that a number of (if not all) the clothes found laying about were Lyuda"s. There was one pair of pants still in the tent..............
Zina"s top two pairs of pants were undone as if someone had been trying to remove them, maybe for the purpose of wearing them also in an attempt to stay warm.
Reply #48In reading Zina's diary, date 29.1.59, "Burned mittens and Yurkin's second quilted jacket." Zina was quite upset with Yuri. ........... I don't know about in the Russian language, but in English when you make a statement like the one above, the "I" is usually understood.
Reply #49I do believe there may have been some kind of altercation among some of the hikers based on some of their injuries. And something else that bothers me a lot is that if you look at the clothes being worn by the hikers at their death...
Reply #50Quote from: sparrow on July 27, 2020, 01:31:34 AM Zina"s top two pairs of pants were undone as if someone had been trying to remove them, maybe for the purpose of wearing them also in an attempt to stay warm.She was significantly far away from the rest of the hikers that anyone of them trying to remove her clothing is unlikely.
And something else that bothers me a lot is that if you look at the clothes being worn by the hikers at their death, Lyuda either went down to the ravine wearing only a tee shirt, shirt, one sweater and only tights (no pants at all) and she had to strip George of his ruined pants and maybe a sweater or she went down to the ravine with her share of clothes and she was either asked to give up some or she was forced to give them up. In the first case it seems odd that three guys fairly well dressed (maybe even wearing some of her clothes) would not share some with her and the second case speaks for its self. So, please, if someone can explain this, do.
Reply #45 My one question would be the KSD group, weren't there some clothing exchanged on them? Which means they possibly did make it to the Cedar tree with the entire group in general.
Reply #54Yes, I do believe that Zina burned the jacket and gloves deliberately. If we want to solve this mystery, then we must look at everything we have available including the diaries and (in this case) Zina's letters.I am trying to look at the hikers as normal young adults. They were not perfect. There were some problems.
Quote- Further on the approach and withdrawal: I understand that the Dyatlov Group was following a mansi hunter trail. They actually encountered a hunter at one point. Could the attackers escape unobserved by the Mansi people ? After all, they required several days of pursuit, and several days to come back to North2... Some multiple days onto which they could have been spotted. It’s a big place, by the time they ran into a hunter they could have been 10-20km away from the dead hikers, harder to connect someone to a murder when you don’t know it has happened yet and they are many km away from the crime scene and at least 3-4 weeks before anyone interviews the hunters. There is also another option, either the attackers were that good or they were scary enough to keep the Mansi hunters from talking even if they spotted them especially when the hunters in question figure out that they might have killed 9 people in cold blood.
I managed to read Rakitins book with google translate and ir was almost fine. First part of the book where he describes the autopsies and families and background of the hikers is really good and points out at interesting facts. Second part in opinion is more like a fiction novel about spies. There are too many speculations and details that are impossible to be assumed. He could have written only that he thinks it was a controled delivery gone wrong . But maybe he wanted to make the book longer and included that long story of action battle and helicopters and all.Anyway his way of thinking and making observations was very logical so I liked his theory and the way he cobcludes it.Other author I liked is Svetlana Oss, again murder theory but supposibg that Khanty did it. Again strogest arguments are the autopsies.
the simplest answer is - attackers didnt have fire weapons Gun circulation was strictly controlled in the USSR and satellite countries,........... we can exclude some categories of people attacker did not belong to :1) solders (army, KGB).2) hunters ( hunters) - and each hunting weapon is listed and its owner is registered.3) organized criminal groups or bandits - because nothing important was stolen from the hikers who moreover were not rich.
Reply #58................................There is one extremely strong reason why the attackers did not use firearms: Their use would result in unmistakable bullet wounds, and everyone would then know that the hikers were killed by humans. .......................................